Mixing
“Die du†in Beethoven's An die Hoffnung
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This post is on "Die du" as occurring in this poem by Christoph August Tiedge and set to music by Beethoven in An die Hoffnung.
I quote only the first two stanzas of the poem as follows.
Ob ein Gott sei? Ob er einst erfülle,
Was die Sehnsucht weinend sich verspricht?
Ob, vor irgendeinem Weltgericht,
Sich dies rätselhafte Sein enthülle?
Hoffen soll der Mensch! Er frage nicht!
1 Die du so gern in heil'gen Nächten feierst
2 Und sanft und weich den Gram verschleierst,
3 Der eine zarte Seele quält,
4 O Hoffnung! Laß, durch dich empor gehoben,
5 Den Dulder ahnen, daß dort oben
6 Ein Engel seine Tränen zählt!
QUESTION
Is Die in the nominative or the accusative case?
Is du a reference to Hoffnung or not?
BACKGROUND
To set the questions in context, I will describe how I have tried to understand the second stanza.
I assuming that the first three lines form a relative clause that attaches to Hoffnung in line 4 (and that line 3 is a relative clause attaching to Gram in line 2).
When I read only line 1, the syntax seems unproblematic. We have someone, being addressed as du, who celebrates hope on Christmas nights, or grammatically speaking Die is in the accusative case and du in the nominative.
But that hypothesis is made untenable by line 2. If Die is still in the accusative, then verschleierst seems to have two accusative objects, i.e. Die and Gram.
One way to give verschleierst only one accusative object is to put Die in the nominative.
But if so two problems seem to arise in line 1. First, what is du? Is it apposite to Die? Which might give us something like:
O hope! Who, o you, so gladly celebrate on Christmas nights and gently and softly veil the grief, which torments a delicate soul.
Second, what does it mean for hope to celebrate on Christmas nights (or at any other time for that matter)? Does it mean that he who celebrates is in a state of hope, or that it is hope that permits anyone to celebrate? (A rather pessimistic worldview as one might think one celebrates what one has, not what one merely hopes for.)
If, as I have ventured to guess, du is setting the grammatical person of Hoffnung (as second), please comment on how common it is to use a relative pronoun followed by a personal pronoun for this purpose.
relative-clauses
asked 54 mins ago
Catomic
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up vote
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This post is on "Die du" as occurring in this poem by Christoph August Tiedge and set to music by Beethoven in An die Hoffnung.
I quote only the first two stanzas of the poem as follows.
Ob ein Gott sei? Ob er einst erfülle,
Was die Sehnsucht weinend sich verspricht?
Ob, vor irgendeinem Weltgericht,
Sich dies rätselhafte Sein enthülle?
Hoffen soll der Mensch! Er frage nicht!
1 Die du so gern in heil'gen Nächten feierst
2 Und sanft und weich den Gram verschleierst,
3 Der eine zarte Seele quält,
4 O Hoffnung! Laß, durch dich empor gehoben,
5 Den Dulder ahnen, daß dort oben
6 Ein Engel seine Tränen zählt!
QUESTION
Is Die in the nominative or the accusative case?
Is du a reference to Hoffnung or not?
BACKGROUND
To set the questions in context, I will describe how I have tried to understand the second stanza.
I assuming that the first three lines form a relative clause that attaches to Hoffnung in line 4 (and that line 3 is a relative clause attaching to Gram in line 2).
When I read only line 1, the syntax seems unproblematic. We have someone, being addressed as du, who celebrates hope on Christmas nights, or grammatically speaking Die is in the accusative case and du in the nominative.
But that hypothesis is made untenable by line 2. If Die is still in the accusative, then verschleierst seems to have two accusative objects, i.e. Die and Gram.
One way to give verschleierst only one accusative object is to put Die in the nominative.
But if so two problems seem to arise in line 1. First, what is du? Is it apposite to Die? Which might give us something like:
O hope! Who, o you, so gladly celebrate on Christmas nights and gently and softly veil the grief, which torments a delicate soul.
Second, what does it mean for hope to celebrate on Christmas nights (or at any other time for that matter)? Does it mean that he who celebrates is in a state of hope, or that it is hope that permits anyone to celebrate? (A rather pessimistic worldview as one might think one celebrates what one has, not what one merely hopes for.)
If, as I have ventured to guess, du is setting the grammatical person of Hoffnung (as second), please comment on how common it is to use a relative pronoun followed by a personal pronoun for this purpose.
relative-clauses
asked 54 mins ago
Catomic
2,130516
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
This post is on "Die du" as occurring in this poem by Christoph August Tiedge and set to music by Beethoven in An die Hoffnung.
I quote only the first two stanzas of the poem as follows.
Ob ein Gott sei? Ob er einst erfülle,
Was die Sehnsucht weinend sich verspricht?
Ob, vor irgendeinem Weltgericht,
Sich dies rätselhafte Sein enthülle?
Hoffen soll der Mensch! Er frage nicht!
1 Die du so gern in heil'gen Nächten feierst
2 Und sanft und weich den Gram verschleierst,
3 Der eine zarte Seele quält,
4 O Hoffnung! Laß, durch dich empor gehoben,
5 Den Dulder ahnen, daß dort oben
6 Ein Engel seine Tränen zählt!
QUESTION
Is Die in the nominative or the accusative case?
Is du a reference to Hoffnung or not?
BACKGROUND
To set the questions in context, I will describe how I have tried to understand the second stanza.
I assuming that the first three lines form a relative clause that attaches to Hoffnung in line 4 (and that line 3 is a relative clause attaching to Gram in line 2).
When I read only line 1, the syntax seems unproblematic. We have someone, being addressed as du, who celebrates hope on Christmas nights, or grammatically speaking Die is in the accusative case and du in the nominative.
But that hypothesis is made untenable by line 2. If Die is still in the accusative, then verschleierst seems to have two accusative objects, i.e. Die and Gram.
One way to give verschleierst only one accusative object is to put Die in the nominative.
But if so two problems seem to arise in line 1. First, what is du? Is it apposite to Die? Which might give us something like:
O hope! Who, o you, so gladly celebrate on Christmas nights and gently and softly veil the grief, which torments a delicate soul.
Second, what does it mean for hope to celebrate on Christmas nights (or at any other time for that matter)? Does it mean that he who celebrates is in a state of hope, or that it is hope that permits anyone to celebrate? (A rather pessimistic worldview as one might think one celebrates what one has, not what one merely hopes for.)
If, as I have ventured to guess, du is setting the grammatical person of Hoffnung (as second), please comment on how common it is to use a relative pronoun followed by a personal pronoun for this purpose.
relative-clauses
asked 54 mins ago
Catomic
2,130516
This post is on "Die du" as occurring in this poem by Christoph August Tiedge and set to music by Beethoven in An die Hoffnung.
I quote only the first two stanzas of the poem as follows.
Ob ein Gott sei? Ob er einst erfülle,
Was die Sehnsucht weinend sich verspricht?
Ob, vor irgendeinem Weltgericht,
Sich dies rätselhafte Sein enthülle?
Hoffen soll der Mensch! Er frage nicht!
1 Die du so gern in heil'gen Nächten feierst
2 Und sanft und weich den Gram verschleierst,
3 Der eine zarte Seele quält,
4 O Hoffnung! Laß, durch dich empor gehoben,
5 Den Dulder ahnen, daß dort oben
6 Ein Engel seine Tränen zählt!
QUESTION
Is Die in the nominative or the accusative case?
Is du a reference to Hoffnung or not?
BACKGROUND
To set the questions in context, I will describe how I have tried to understand the second stanza.
I assuming that the first three lines form a relative clause that attaches to Hoffnung in line 4 (and that line 3 is a relative clause attaching to Gram in line 2).
When I read only line 1, the syntax seems unproblematic. We have someone, being addressed as du, who celebrates hope on Christmas nights, or grammatically speaking Die is in the accusative case and du in the nominative.
But that hypothesis is made untenable by line 2. If Die is still in the accusative, then verschleierst seems to have two accusative objects, i.e. Die and Gram.
One way to give verschleierst only one accusative object is to put Die in the nominative.
But if so two problems seem to arise in line 1. First, what is du? Is it apposite to Die? Which might give us something like:
O hope! Who, o you, so gladly celebrate on Christmas nights and gently and softly veil the grief, which torments a delicate soul.
Second, what does it mean for hope to celebrate on Christmas nights (or at any other time for that matter)? Does it mean that he who celebrates is in a state of hope, or that it is hope that permits anyone to celebrate? (A rather pessimistic worldview as one might think one celebrates what one has, not what one merely hopes for.)
If, as I have ventured to guess, du is setting the grammatical person of Hoffnung (as second), please comment on how common it is to use a relative pronoun followed by a personal pronoun for this purpose.
relative-clauses
relative-clauses
asked 54 mins ago
Catomic
2,130516
asked 54 mins ago
Catomic
2,130516
edited 42 mins ago
asked 54 mins ago
Catomic
2,130516
asked 54 mins ago
Catomic
2,130516
asked 54 mins ago
Catomic
2,130516
2,130516
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1 Answer
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Dieis Nominativ case here.- Yes,
duis referring toHoffnung.
The whole thing is an invocation to the personified hope (Hoffnung), which could also be written as Du, die du so gern in heil'gen Nächten feierst and could be translated into english as follows:
You, who you celebrate so gladly in holy nights
And gently and softly veil the grief
Which tortures a delicate soul,
O hope! ...
The structure is common in poetical speaking. The term used in literature theory for this is Invocatio (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invocatio). Since it is poetical language, in normal every-day language, its use would be of overly high tone and it would be stylistically inappropriate in most situations I can think of.
Another pretty famous example for this (amongst many others) is Goethe's poem Wanderer's Nachtlied which goes
Der du von dem Himmel bist,
[...]
Süßer Friede,
Komm, ach komm in meine Brust!
See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandrers_Nachtlied
answered 24 mins ago
jonathan.scholbach
3,092520
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Dieis Nominativ case here.- Yes,
duis referring toHoffnung.
The whole thing is an invocation to the personified hope (Hoffnung), which could also be written as Du, die du so gern in heil'gen Nächten feierst and could be translated into english as follows:
You, who you celebrate so gladly in holy nights
And gently and softly veil the grief
Which tortures a delicate soul,
O hope! ...
The structure is common in poetical speaking. The term used in literature theory for this is Invocatio (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invocatio). Since it is poetical language, in normal every-day language, its use would be of overly high tone and it would be stylistically inappropriate in most situations I can think of.
Another pretty famous example for this (amongst many others) is Goethe's poem Wanderer's Nachtlied which goes
Der du von dem Himmel bist,
[...]
Süßer Friede,
Komm, ach komm in meine Brust!
See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandrers_Nachtlied
answered 24 mins ago
jonathan.scholbach
3,092520
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Dieis Nominativ case here.- Yes,
duis referring toHoffnung.
The whole thing is an invocation to the personified hope (Hoffnung), which could also be written as Du, die du so gern in heil'gen Nächten feierst and could be translated into english as follows:
You, who you celebrate so gladly in holy nights
And gently and softly veil the grief
Which tortures a delicate soul,
O hope! ...
The structure is common in poetical speaking. The term used in literature theory for this is Invocatio (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invocatio). Since it is poetical language, in normal every-day language, its use would be of overly high tone and it would be stylistically inappropriate in most situations I can think of.
Another pretty famous example for this (amongst many others) is Goethe's poem Wanderer's Nachtlied which goes
Der du von dem Himmel bist,
[...]
Süßer Friede,
Komm, ach komm in meine Brust!
See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandrers_Nachtlied
answered 24 mins ago
jonathan.scholbach
3,092520
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Dieis Nominativ case here.- Yes,
duis referring toHoffnung.
The whole thing is an invocation to the personified hope (Hoffnung), which could also be written as Du, die du so gern in heil'gen Nächten feierst and could be translated into english as follows:
You, who you celebrate so gladly in holy nights
And gently and softly veil the grief
Which tortures a delicate soul,
O hope! ...
The structure is common in poetical speaking. The term used in literature theory for this is Invocatio (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invocatio). Since it is poetical language, in normal every-day language, its use would be of overly high tone and it would be stylistically inappropriate in most situations I can think of.
Another pretty famous example for this (amongst many others) is Goethe's poem Wanderer's Nachtlied which goes
Der du von dem Himmel bist,
[...]
Süßer Friede,
Komm, ach komm in meine Brust!
See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandrers_Nachtlied
answered 24 mins ago
jonathan.scholbach
3,092520
Dieis Nominativ case here.- Yes,
duis referring toHoffnung.
The whole thing is an invocation to the personified hope (Hoffnung), which could also be written as Du, die du so gern in heil'gen Nächten feierst and could be translated into english as follows:
You, who you celebrate so gladly in holy nights
And gently and softly veil the grief
Which tortures a delicate soul,
O hope! ...
The structure is common in poetical speaking. The term used in literature theory for this is Invocatio (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invocatio). Since it is poetical language, in normal every-day language, its use would be of overly high tone and it would be stylistically inappropriate in most situations I can think of.
Another pretty famous example for this (amongst many others) is Goethe's poem Wanderer's Nachtlied which goes
Der du von dem Himmel bist,
[...]
Süßer Friede,
Komm, ach komm in meine Brust!
See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandrers_Nachtlied
answered 24 mins ago
jonathan.scholbach
3,092520
edited 10 mins ago
answered 24 mins ago
jonathan.scholbach
3,092520
answered 24 mins ago
jonathan.scholbach
3,092520
answered 24 mins ago
jonathan.scholbach
3,092520
3,092520
add a comment |Â
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