Mixing
Is 「〜られãŸãÂÂãªã„〠in present or past form?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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I've come across these two sentences and have been trying to wrap my head around them for a while.
「出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よã€Âand 「縛られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よã€Â
Both use the potential verb form and 「ãÂÂãªã„ã€Â
When I look up the translation, they say "I do not want to leave" and "I don't want to be tied up."
But they end with 「られãŸã€Â, which is used for something done in the past. I would have assumed they'd be translated as "I did not want to leave."
If I'm missing something please tell me.
usage
edited 9 mins ago
Andrew T.
221214
asked 4 hours ago
Maknae
515
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I've come across these two sentences and have been trying to wrap my head around them for a while.
「出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よã€Âand 「縛られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よã€Â
Both use the potential verb form and 「ãÂÂãªã„ã€Â
When I look up the translation, they say "I do not want to leave" and "I don't want to be tied up."
But they end with 「られãŸã€Â, which is used for something done in the past. I would have assumed they'd be translated as "I did not want to leave."
If I'm missing something please tell me.
usage
edited 9 mins ago
Andrew T.
221214
asked 4 hours ago
Maknae
515
2
You know about the ～ãŸã„ form meaning 'want to', right?
– Aeon Akechi
4 hours ago
1
@AeonAkechi It might be that he's joining knowledge about ã„-adjective negative conjugation such as in 新ã—ã„ -> 新ã—ãÂÂãªã„ and past-tense ãŸ-form without knowledge of, as you explain, ãŸã„-form to express desire
– psosuna
4 hours ago
1
It's 'passive + tai' rather than 'potential + past'. 出る is an intransitive verb, and thus this 出られる should be sufferer passive. 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ means "I don't want [someone] to leave" rather than "I don't want to leave."
– naruto
3 hours ago
@naruto I was just expanding my answer when I see your comment. I'd appreciate if you could check to make sure I did not say something wrong.
– Tommy
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I've come across these two sentences and have been trying to wrap my head around them for a while.
「出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よã€Âand 「縛られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よã€Â
Both use the potential verb form and 「ãÂÂãªã„ã€Â
When I look up the translation, they say "I do not want to leave" and "I don't want to be tied up."
But they end with 「られãŸã€Â, which is used for something done in the past. I would have assumed they'd be translated as "I did not want to leave."
If I'm missing something please tell me.
usage
edited 9 mins ago
Andrew T.
221214
asked 4 hours ago
Maknae
515
I've come across these two sentences and have been trying to wrap my head around them for a while.
「出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よã€Âand 「縛られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よã€Â
Both use the potential verb form and 「ãÂÂãªã„ã€Â
When I look up the translation, they say "I do not want to leave" and "I don't want to be tied up."
But they end with 「られãŸã€Â, which is used for something done in the past. I would have assumed they'd be translated as "I did not want to leave."
If I'm missing something please tell me.
usage
usage
edited 9 mins ago
Andrew T.
221214
asked 4 hours ago
Maknae
515
edited 9 mins ago
Andrew T.
221214
asked 4 hours ago
Maknae
515
edited 9 mins ago
Andrew T.
221214
edited 9 mins ago
Andrew T.
221214
edited 9 mins ago
Andrew T.
221214
221214
asked 4 hours ago
Maknae
515
asked 4 hours ago
Maknae
515
asked 4 hours ago
Maknae
515
515
2
You know about the ～ãŸã„ form meaning 'want to', right?
– Aeon Akechi
4 hours ago
1
@AeonAkechi It might be that he's joining knowledge about ã„-adjective negative conjugation such as in 新ã—ã„ -> 新ã—ãÂÂãªã„ and past-tense ãŸ-form without knowledge of, as you explain, ãŸã„-form to express desire
– psosuna
4 hours ago
1
It's 'passive + tai' rather than 'potential + past'. 出る is an intransitive verb, and thus this 出られる should be sufferer passive. 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ means "I don't want [someone] to leave" rather than "I don't want to leave."
– naruto
3 hours ago
@naruto I was just expanding my answer when I see your comment. I'd appreciate if you could check to make sure I did not say something wrong.
– Tommy
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
2
You know about the ～ãŸã„ form meaning 'want to', right?
– Aeon Akechi
4 hours ago
1
@AeonAkechi It might be that he's joining knowledge about ã„-adjective negative conjugation such as in 新ã—ã„ -> 新ã—ãÂÂãªã„ and past-tense ãŸ-form without knowledge of, as you explain, ãŸã„-form to express desire
– psosuna
4 hours ago
1
It's 'passive + tai' rather than 'potential + past'. 出る is an intransitive verb, and thus this 出られる should be sufferer passive. 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ means "I don't want [someone] to leave" rather than "I don't want to leave."
– naruto
3 hours ago
@naruto I was just expanding my answer when I see your comment. I'd appreciate if you could check to make sure I did not say something wrong.
– Tommy
2 hours ago
2
2
You know about the ～ãŸã„ form meaning 'want to', right?
– Aeon Akechi
4 hours ago
You know about the ～ãŸã„ form meaning 'want to', right?
– Aeon Akechi
4 hours ago
1
1
@AeonAkechi It might be that he's joining knowledge about ã„-adjective negative conjugation such as in 新ã—ã„ -> 新ã—ãÂÂãªã„ and past-tense ãŸ-form without knowledge of, as you explain, ãŸã„-form to express desire
– psosuna
4 hours ago
@AeonAkechi It might be that he's joining knowledge about ã„-adjective negative conjugation such as in 新ã—ã„ -> 新ã—ãÂÂãªã„ and past-tense ãŸ-form without knowledge of, as you explain, ãŸã„-form to express desire
– psosuna
4 hours ago
1
1
It's 'passive + tai' rather than 'potential + past'. 出る is an intransitive verb, and thus this 出られる should be sufferer passive. 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ means "I don't want [someone] to leave" rather than "I don't want to leave."
– naruto
3 hours ago
It's 'passive + tai' rather than 'potential + past'. 出る is an intransitive verb, and thus this 出られる should be sufferer passive. 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ means "I don't want [someone] to leave" rather than "I don't want to leave."
– naruto
3 hours ago
@naruto I was just expanding my answer when I see your comment. I'd appreciate if you could check to make sure I did not say something wrong.
– Tommy
2 hours ago
@naruto I was just expanding my answer when I see your comment. I'd appreciate if you could check to make sure I did not say something wrong.
– Tommy
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
I think you are confused. That has nothing to do with past form. It is called ～ãŸã„ form and it indicates "being willing/wanting to" do something.
The basic rule of construction is:
verb stem of masu-form + ãŸã„.
In your example, the verbs are conjugated in a passive negative form (as for 出る notice that passive and potential are the same so I'm unsure just from the verb without context).
Basically you can see it as conjugated doing the following steps:
縛る　ー＞ (passive)　縛られる　ー＞　(〜ãŸã„ form) 縛られãŸã„　ー＞　(negative) 縛られãŸãÂÂãªã„
For more about the ～ãŸã„ form, you can look here.
Ps.
I got caught up in something and could not continue my answer.
I wanted to add one thing. I did not mention translations because you have already provided them. However, I'm not sure "I do not want to leave" is correct. Then what would be the difference with "出ãŸãÂÂãªã„"? Since the 出る is intransitive, this is probably what is called 迷惑ã‚Âã„ã‚ÂãÂÂã®å—ã‘身, loosely translated as "troubling passive". Therefore, is probably more something like "I don't want (someone else) to leave".
However, put in this way, the more I think of it the more I find it confusing myself. Let me expand. Think of this type of passive as something that happens and someone being affected/troubled by it.
Typical example:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸ, I was fallen on by the rain (It rained on me).
And I was affected negatively by this event.
Now let's turn this example to make it more similar to your case:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸãÂÂãªã„, I don't want to be fallen on by the rain (I don't want it
to rain on me).
Now should be easier to understand why I said the translation of your case should probably refer to someone else leaving. There are probably two things missing there:
[ç§ÂãÂÂŒ][...ã«]出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ, (I) don't want (...) to "leave on me"
Where I wouldn't know how to better render in English the "leave on me" part, but I hope it gives you the idea.
And obviously, now you should see why in English is much more natural "I don't want (someone) to leave".
After seeing Naruto's comment, I think "sufferer passive" is an even better translation for 迷惑ã®å—ã‘身.
answered 4 hours ago
Tommy
5,810826
1
"I think you are confusing." Did you mean "confused."? Otherwise it sounds a bit argumentative :)
– Leebo
4 hours ago
@Leebo ops, right. I was writing quickly. Will fix.
– Tommy
3 hours ago
Well I was going to ask about the difference between 出ãŸãÂÂãªã„ vs 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„ but your fast edits covered everything I had a question about. Thanks (everyone) for the help.
– Maknae
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
I think you are confused. That has nothing to do with past form. It is called ～ãŸã„ form and it indicates "being willing/wanting to" do something.
The basic rule of construction is:
verb stem of masu-form + ãŸã„.
In your example, the verbs are conjugated in a passive negative form (as for 出る notice that passive and potential are the same so I'm unsure just from the verb without context).
Basically you can see it as conjugated doing the following steps:
縛る　ー＞ (passive)　縛られる　ー＞　(〜ãŸã„ form) 縛られãŸã„　ー＞　(negative) 縛られãŸãÂÂãªã„
For more about the ～ãŸã„ form, you can look here.
Ps.
I got caught up in something and could not continue my answer.
I wanted to add one thing. I did not mention translations because you have already provided them. However, I'm not sure "I do not want to leave" is correct. Then what would be the difference with "出ãŸãÂÂãªã„"? Since the 出る is intransitive, this is probably what is called 迷惑ã‚Âã„ã‚ÂãÂÂã®å—ã‘身, loosely translated as "troubling passive". Therefore, is probably more something like "I don't want (someone else) to leave".
However, put in this way, the more I think of it the more I find it confusing myself. Let me expand. Think of this type of passive as something that happens and someone being affected/troubled by it.
Typical example:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸ, I was fallen on by the rain (It rained on me).
And I was affected negatively by this event.
Now let's turn this example to make it more similar to your case:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸãÂÂãªã„, I don't want to be fallen on by the rain (I don't want it
to rain on me).
Now should be easier to understand why I said the translation of your case should probably refer to someone else leaving. There are probably two things missing there:
[ç§ÂãÂÂŒ][...ã«]出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ, (I) don't want (...) to "leave on me"
Where I wouldn't know how to better render in English the "leave on me" part, but I hope it gives you the idea.
And obviously, now you should see why in English is much more natural "I don't want (someone) to leave".
After seeing Naruto's comment, I think "sufferer passive" is an even better translation for 迷惑ã®å—ã‘身.
answered 4 hours ago
Tommy
5,810826
1
"I think you are confusing." Did you mean "confused."? Otherwise it sounds a bit argumentative :)
– Leebo
4 hours ago
@Leebo ops, right. I was writing quickly. Will fix.
– Tommy
3 hours ago
Well I was going to ask about the difference between 出ãŸãÂÂãªã„ vs 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„ but your fast edits covered everything I had a question about. Thanks (everyone) for the help.
– Maknae
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
I think you are confused. That has nothing to do with past form. It is called ～ãŸã„ form and it indicates "being willing/wanting to" do something.
The basic rule of construction is:
verb stem of masu-form + ãŸã„.
In your example, the verbs are conjugated in a passive negative form (as for 出る notice that passive and potential are the same so I'm unsure just from the verb without context).
Basically you can see it as conjugated doing the following steps:
縛る　ー＞ (passive)　縛られる　ー＞　(〜ãŸã„ form) 縛られãŸã„　ー＞　(negative) 縛られãŸãÂÂãªã„
For more about the ～ãŸã„ form, you can look here.
Ps.
I got caught up in something and could not continue my answer.
I wanted to add one thing. I did not mention translations because you have already provided them. However, I'm not sure "I do not want to leave" is correct. Then what would be the difference with "出ãŸãÂÂãªã„"? Since the 出る is intransitive, this is probably what is called 迷惑ã‚Âã„ã‚ÂãÂÂã®å—ã‘身, loosely translated as "troubling passive". Therefore, is probably more something like "I don't want (someone else) to leave".
However, put in this way, the more I think of it the more I find it confusing myself. Let me expand. Think of this type of passive as something that happens and someone being affected/troubled by it.
Typical example:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸ, I was fallen on by the rain (It rained on me).
And I was affected negatively by this event.
Now let's turn this example to make it more similar to your case:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸãÂÂãªã„, I don't want to be fallen on by the rain (I don't want it
to rain on me).
Now should be easier to understand why I said the translation of your case should probably refer to someone else leaving. There are probably two things missing there:
[ç§ÂãÂÂŒ][...ã«]出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ, (I) don't want (...) to "leave on me"
Where I wouldn't know how to better render in English the "leave on me" part, but I hope it gives you the idea.
And obviously, now you should see why in English is much more natural "I don't want (someone) to leave".
After seeing Naruto's comment, I think "sufferer passive" is an even better translation for 迷惑ã®å—ã‘身.
answered 4 hours ago
Tommy
5,810826
1
"I think you are confusing." Did you mean "confused."? Otherwise it sounds a bit argumentative :)
– Leebo
4 hours ago
@Leebo ops, right. I was writing quickly. Will fix.
– Tommy
3 hours ago
Well I was going to ask about the difference between 出ãŸãÂÂãªã„ vs 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„ but your fast edits covered everything I had a question about. Thanks (everyone) for the help.
– Maknae
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
I think you are confused. That has nothing to do with past form. It is called ～ãŸã„ form and it indicates "being willing/wanting to" do something.
The basic rule of construction is:
verb stem of masu-form + ãŸã„.
In your example, the verbs are conjugated in a passive negative form (as for 出る notice that passive and potential are the same so I'm unsure just from the verb without context).
Basically you can see it as conjugated doing the following steps:
縛る　ー＞ (passive)　縛られる　ー＞　(〜ãŸã„ form) 縛られãŸã„　ー＞　(negative) 縛られãŸãÂÂãªã„
For more about the ～ãŸã„ form, you can look here.
Ps.
I got caught up in something and could not continue my answer.
I wanted to add one thing. I did not mention translations because you have already provided them. However, I'm not sure "I do not want to leave" is correct. Then what would be the difference with "出ãŸãÂÂãªã„"? Since the 出る is intransitive, this is probably what is called 迷惑ã‚Âã„ã‚ÂãÂÂã®å—ã‘身, loosely translated as "troubling passive". Therefore, is probably more something like "I don't want (someone else) to leave".
However, put in this way, the more I think of it the more I find it confusing myself. Let me expand. Think of this type of passive as something that happens and someone being affected/troubled by it.
Typical example:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸ, I was fallen on by the rain (It rained on me).
And I was affected negatively by this event.
Now let's turn this example to make it more similar to your case:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸãÂÂãªã„, I don't want to be fallen on by the rain (I don't want it
to rain on me).
Now should be easier to understand why I said the translation of your case should probably refer to someone else leaving. There are probably two things missing there:
[ç§ÂãÂÂŒ][...ã«]出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ, (I) don't want (...) to "leave on me"
Where I wouldn't know how to better render in English the "leave on me" part, but I hope it gives you the idea.
And obviously, now you should see why in English is much more natural "I don't want (someone) to leave".
After seeing Naruto's comment, I think "sufferer passive" is an even better translation for 迷惑ã®å—ã‘身.
answered 4 hours ago
Tommy
5,810826
I think you are confused. That has nothing to do with past form. It is called ～ãŸã„ form and it indicates "being willing/wanting to" do something.
The basic rule of construction is:
verb stem of masu-form + ãŸã„.
In your example, the verbs are conjugated in a passive negative form (as for 出る notice that passive and potential are the same so I'm unsure just from the verb without context).
Basically you can see it as conjugated doing the following steps:
縛る　ー＞ (passive)　縛られる　ー＞　(〜ãŸã„ form) 縛られãŸã„　ー＞　(negative) 縛られãŸãÂÂãªã„
For more about the ～ãŸã„ form, you can look here.
Ps.
I got caught up in something and could not continue my answer.
I wanted to add one thing. I did not mention translations because you have already provided them. However, I'm not sure "I do not want to leave" is correct. Then what would be the difference with "出ãŸãÂÂãªã„"? Since the 出る is intransitive, this is probably what is called 迷惑ã‚Âã„ã‚ÂãÂÂã®å—ã‘身, loosely translated as "troubling passive". Therefore, is probably more something like "I don't want (someone else) to leave".
However, put in this way, the more I think of it the more I find it confusing myself. Let me expand. Think of this type of passive as something that happens and someone being affected/troubled by it.
Typical example:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸ, I was fallen on by the rain (It rained on me).
And I was affected negatively by this event.
Now let's turn this example to make it more similar to your case:
雨ã«é™ÂられãŸãÂÂãªã„, I don't want to be fallen on by the rain (I don't want it
to rain on me).
Now should be easier to understand why I said the translation of your case should probably refer to someone else leaving. There are probably two things missing there:
[ç§ÂãÂÂŒ][...ã«]出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ, (I) don't want (...) to "leave on me"
Where I wouldn't know how to better render in English the "leave on me" part, but I hope it gives you the idea.
And obviously, now you should see why in English is much more natural "I don't want (someone) to leave".
After seeing Naruto's comment, I think "sufferer passive" is an even better translation for 迷惑ã®å—ã‘身.
answered 4 hours ago
Tommy
5,810826
edited 3 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
Tommy
5,810826
answered 4 hours ago
Tommy
5,810826
answered 4 hours ago
Tommy
5,810826
5,810826
1
"I think you are confusing." Did you mean "confused."? Otherwise it sounds a bit argumentative :)
– Leebo
4 hours ago
@Leebo ops, right. I was writing quickly. Will fix.
– Tommy
3 hours ago
Well I was going to ask about the difference between 出ãŸãÂÂãªã„ vs 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„ but your fast edits covered everything I had a question about. Thanks (everyone) for the help.
– Maknae
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
"I think you are confusing." Did you mean "confused."? Otherwise it sounds a bit argumentative :)
– Leebo
4 hours ago
@Leebo ops, right. I was writing quickly. Will fix.
– Tommy
3 hours ago
Well I was going to ask about the difference between 出ãŸãÂÂãªã„ vs 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„ but your fast edits covered everything I had a question about. Thanks (everyone) for the help.
– Maknae
2 hours ago
1
1
"I think you are confusing." Did you mean "confused."? Otherwise it sounds a bit argumentative :)
– Leebo
4 hours ago
"I think you are confusing." Did you mean "confused."? Otherwise it sounds a bit argumentative :)
– Leebo
4 hours ago
@Leebo ops, right. I was writing quickly. Will fix.
– Tommy
3 hours ago
@Leebo ops, right. I was writing quickly. Will fix.
– Tommy
3 hours ago
Well I was going to ask about the difference between 出ãŸãÂÂãªã„ vs 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„ but your fast edits covered everything I had a question about. Thanks (everyone) for the help.
– Maknae
2 hours ago
Well I was going to ask about the difference between 出ãŸãÂÂãªã„ vs 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„ but your fast edits covered everything I had a question about. Thanks (everyone) for the help.
– Maknae
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
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2
You know about the ～ãŸã„ form meaning 'want to', right?
– Aeon Akechi
4 hours ago
1
@AeonAkechi It might be that he's joining knowledge about ã„-adjective negative conjugation such as in 新ã—ã„ -> 新ã—ãÂÂãªã„ and past-tense ãŸ-form without knowledge of, as you explain, ãŸã„-form to express desire
– psosuna
4 hours ago
1
It's 'passive + tai' rather than 'potential + past'. 出る is an intransitive verb, and thus this 出られる should be sufferer passive. 出られãŸãÂÂãªã„んã よ means "I don't want [someone] to leave" rather than "I don't want to leave."
– naruto
3 hours ago
@naruto I was just expanding my answer when I see your comment. I'd appreciate if you could check to make sure I did not say something wrong.
– Tommy
2 hours ago