Mixing
Getting Past Phonetic Limitations
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For the sake of making things much, much simpler, most worlds I'm familiar with have a defining feature of language: there is a common language. This allows for universal communication and overcomes what would otherwise be time-limiting obstacles for one species (or race) to communicate with another.
However - my question here revolves around the fact that we can't always be so lucky. What if there was no universal language? What if the biology of the two species was different enough that they had defining phonetic differences (which, I think, should be the more likely scenario whenever there are two intelligent species coming into contact with one another). Imagine if you were to introduce to a human species an intelligent species with all the defining characteristics of the human phonetic biology (esophagus of relative length, vocal chords, lips, teeth, shape of mouth) but they were missing a tongue. The time to develop a universal language would take time - and that's given that humans with tongues can talk like humans without tongues.
What are some clever ways that your worlds have overcome phonetic differences? The obvious answer for Sci-Fi would be a "universal translator software" or for a simple "Comprehend Languages" spell, but those are band-aid answers to an otherwise intriguing question. What are some real ways to overcome biological, phonetic differences for two intelligent species?
language communication fantasy-races
asked 1 hour ago
J Stubblefield
514
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
For the sake of making things much, much simpler, most worlds I'm familiar with have a defining feature of language: there is a common language. This allows for universal communication and overcomes what would otherwise be time-limiting obstacles for one species (or race) to communicate with another.
However - my question here revolves around the fact that we can't always be so lucky. What if there was no universal language? What if the biology of the two species was different enough that they had defining phonetic differences (which, I think, should be the more likely scenario whenever there are two intelligent species coming into contact with one another). Imagine if you were to introduce to a human species an intelligent species with all the defining characteristics of the human phonetic biology (esophagus of relative length, vocal chords, lips, teeth, shape of mouth) but they were missing a tongue. The time to develop a universal language would take time - and that's given that humans with tongues can talk like humans without tongues.
What are some clever ways that your worlds have overcome phonetic differences? The obvious answer for Sci-Fi would be a "universal translator software" or for a simple "Comprehend Languages" spell, but those are band-aid answers to an otherwise intriguing question. What are some real ways to overcome biological, phonetic differences for two intelligent species?
language communication fantasy-races
asked 1 hour ago
J Stubblefield
514
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
For the sake of making things much, much simpler, most worlds I'm familiar with have a defining feature of language: there is a common language. This allows for universal communication and overcomes what would otherwise be time-limiting obstacles for one species (or race) to communicate with another.
However - my question here revolves around the fact that we can't always be so lucky. What if there was no universal language? What if the biology of the two species was different enough that they had defining phonetic differences (which, I think, should be the more likely scenario whenever there are two intelligent species coming into contact with one another). Imagine if you were to introduce to a human species an intelligent species with all the defining characteristics of the human phonetic biology (esophagus of relative length, vocal chords, lips, teeth, shape of mouth) but they were missing a tongue. The time to develop a universal language would take time - and that's given that humans with tongues can talk like humans without tongues.
What are some clever ways that your worlds have overcome phonetic differences? The obvious answer for Sci-Fi would be a "universal translator software" or for a simple "Comprehend Languages" spell, but those are band-aid answers to an otherwise intriguing question. What are some real ways to overcome biological, phonetic differences for two intelligent species?
language communication fantasy-races
asked 1 hour ago
J Stubblefield
514
For the sake of making things much, much simpler, most worlds I'm familiar with have a defining feature of language: there is a common language. This allows for universal communication and overcomes what would otherwise be time-limiting obstacles for one species (or race) to communicate with another.
However - my question here revolves around the fact that we can't always be so lucky. What if there was no universal language? What if the biology of the two species was different enough that they had defining phonetic differences (which, I think, should be the more likely scenario whenever there are two intelligent species coming into contact with one another). Imagine if you were to introduce to a human species an intelligent species with all the defining characteristics of the human phonetic biology (esophagus of relative length, vocal chords, lips, teeth, shape of mouth) but they were missing a tongue. The time to develop a universal language would take time - and that's given that humans with tongues can talk like humans without tongues.
What are some clever ways that your worlds have overcome phonetic differences? The obvious answer for Sci-Fi would be a "universal translator software" or for a simple "Comprehend Languages" spell, but those are band-aid answers to an otherwise intriguing question. What are some real ways to overcome biological, phonetic differences for two intelligent species?
language communication fantasy-races
language communication fantasy-races
asked 1 hour ago
J Stubblefield
514
asked 1 hour ago
J Stubblefield
514
asked 1 hour ago
J Stubblefield
514
asked 1 hour ago
J Stubblefield
514
asked 1 hour ago
J Stubblefield
514
514
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
The most common solution the real world is the development of a trade language or lingua franca. Remember, language doesn't need to be verbal, especially if there are key anatomical differences. It could be a sign language or written one or if the technology exists, a translator.
answered 52 mins ago
Liz
761
I've not heard of a Lingua Franca until now. Looks like I have some research to do!
– J Stubblefield
50 mins ago
Note that there are "lingua franca(s)", like English; and then there is actual Lingua Franca, what was itself a trade language spoken in the Mediterranean area up to perhaps the 19th century.
– elemtilas
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The problem is a lot broader than you may suspect. Different biology for vocalisations is one thing, but what about species that communicate by pheromone? Lighting up thinly covered bone plate in different sequences by flushing blood into their membrane coverings? These are just some of the possibilites; communicating with each other is hard enough when we belong to the same species. With aliens we haven't even begun to scratch the surface.
So how would we learn to communicate? Here are just 2 possible options;
1) Science & Math
The periodic table of the elements should be the same for all of us, no matter species of origin. This is a good representational place to start. We can then also teach math - hydrogen has 1 proton, helium 2, etc. Then we can teach true / false or yes / no concepts with 1+1=2 is true, 1+1=3 is false, etc.
There are going to be some massive differences in psychology to conquer and other misunderstandings based on how we all represent our science, but it's generally thought that math and science make useful 'rosetta stones' for other potential species out there.
2) Measure of Actions
In the first instance, we have to make an assumption that aliens will want to talk about the things that they care about. This may very well not be the case, but if we at least assume that they want to communicate with us, they'll try to make it easy for us just as we'll try to make it easy for them. Pointing to chairs and saying their equivalent of 'chair' for instance. Aggressive stances against us may well represent offence or anger, whereas less dominant posturing may indicate agreement. This approach is less scientific and relies on many assumptions about their intent and psychology that will ultimately prove wrong many times, but if it is two 'enlightened' species trying to communicate with mutual intent, all you really need is patience.
In the end, it may all come down to writing, though. We have to assume that a developed species is in essence a species of tool builders, meaning that they probably have some form of representational alphabet or written language which we can work with. It also has the benefit of being still around after they've lost patience.
There are good reasons to write down knowledge, regardless of species. It affords a cheap and effective means of passing information around your community, thus improving it at a far greater rate than having to learn everything from another in verbal repetition. So, for mine, the written language will be (once we've figured out how their language works) the principal method by which we would communicate with alien lifeforms.
answered 44 mins ago
Tim B II
21.3k44790
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I don't see the problem with a Universal Translator. Of course its a go to solution but its one that works. The universal translator converts everything you hear into English with perfect accuracy. Every space faring civilization eventually develops their own one, so as a Human I don't need to speak in bubbles or clicks, the Aliens universal translator converts my language into theirs. You could do it both ways, however that complicates it because you have an echo when talking and that is often undesirable in conversations, games and movies where this is often applied (Like listening to a DUB while the original voice is going and with a few seconds of delay).
The issue is that something simply can't be pronounced due to physical differences and methods of communication. Lets say that dogs developed a language using barks and high pitched whines. But we as humans can't hear the upper range of the whine much less produce it so that entire part of the language is unpronounceable and unhearable to us. We have to rely on some form of technology to translate it, and a universal translator software is simply the easiest choice.
Every time you meet a new species, a bunch of linguists sit down, get some objects, show it to each other and say the words until you have developed a common framework between the two languages. You work together as 2 species to unite your languages and all the intricate features like idioms, similes etc etc and then push the new language update onto all the devices and now 2 entirely separated species can talk to each other.
Now if you want to go into the specifics of a universal translator and making it as realistic as possible, that is a completely different scenario. But if a human can learn to speak more than one language fluently, there is no reason we couldn't teach a computer the same thing.
answered 49 mins ago
Shadowzee
4,463720
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
The most common solution the real world is the development of a trade language or lingua franca. Remember, language doesn't need to be verbal, especially if there are key anatomical differences. It could be a sign language or written one or if the technology exists, a translator.
answered 52 mins ago
Liz
761
I've not heard of a Lingua Franca until now. Looks like I have some research to do!
– J Stubblefield
50 mins ago
Note that there are "lingua franca(s)", like English; and then there is actual Lingua Franca, what was itself a trade language spoken in the Mediterranean area up to perhaps the 19th century.
– elemtilas
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
The most common solution the real world is the development of a trade language or lingua franca. Remember, language doesn't need to be verbal, especially if there are key anatomical differences. It could be a sign language or written one or if the technology exists, a translator.
answered 52 mins ago
Liz
761
I've not heard of a Lingua Franca until now. Looks like I have some research to do!
– J Stubblefield
50 mins ago
Note that there are "lingua franca(s)", like English; and then there is actual Lingua Franca, what was itself a trade language spoken in the Mediterranean area up to perhaps the 19th century.
– elemtilas
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
The most common solution the real world is the development of a trade language or lingua franca. Remember, language doesn't need to be verbal, especially if there are key anatomical differences. It could be a sign language or written one or if the technology exists, a translator.
answered 52 mins ago
Liz
761
The most common solution the real world is the development of a trade language or lingua franca. Remember, language doesn't need to be verbal, especially if there are key anatomical differences. It could be a sign language or written one or if the technology exists, a translator.
answered 52 mins ago
Liz
761
answered 52 mins ago
Liz
761
answered 52 mins ago
Liz
761
answered 52 mins ago
Liz
761
761
I've not heard of a Lingua Franca until now. Looks like I have some research to do!
– J Stubblefield
50 mins ago
Note that there are "lingua franca(s)", like English; and then there is actual Lingua Franca, what was itself a trade language spoken in the Mediterranean area up to perhaps the 19th century.
– elemtilas
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
I've not heard of a Lingua Franca until now. Looks like I have some research to do!
– J Stubblefield
50 mins ago
Note that there are "lingua franca(s)", like English; and then there is actual Lingua Franca, what was itself a trade language spoken in the Mediterranean area up to perhaps the 19th century.
– elemtilas
2 mins ago
I've not heard of a Lingua Franca until now. Looks like I have some research to do!
– J Stubblefield
50 mins ago
I've not heard of a Lingua Franca until now. Looks like I have some research to do!
– J Stubblefield
50 mins ago
Note that there are "lingua franca(s)", like English; and then there is actual Lingua Franca, what was itself a trade language spoken in the Mediterranean area up to perhaps the 19th century.
– elemtilas
2 mins ago
Note that there are "lingua franca(s)", like English; and then there is actual Lingua Franca, what was itself a trade language spoken in the Mediterranean area up to perhaps the 19th century.
– elemtilas
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The problem is a lot broader than you may suspect. Different biology for vocalisations is one thing, but what about species that communicate by pheromone? Lighting up thinly covered bone plate in different sequences by flushing blood into their membrane coverings? These are just some of the possibilites; communicating with each other is hard enough when we belong to the same species. With aliens we haven't even begun to scratch the surface.
So how would we learn to communicate? Here are just 2 possible options;
1) Science & Math
The periodic table of the elements should be the same for all of us, no matter species of origin. This is a good representational place to start. We can then also teach math - hydrogen has 1 proton, helium 2, etc. Then we can teach true / false or yes / no concepts with 1+1=2 is true, 1+1=3 is false, etc.
There are going to be some massive differences in psychology to conquer and other misunderstandings based on how we all represent our science, but it's generally thought that math and science make useful 'rosetta stones' for other potential species out there.
2) Measure of Actions
In the first instance, we have to make an assumption that aliens will want to talk about the things that they care about. This may very well not be the case, but if we at least assume that they want to communicate with us, they'll try to make it easy for us just as we'll try to make it easy for them. Pointing to chairs and saying their equivalent of 'chair' for instance. Aggressive stances against us may well represent offence or anger, whereas less dominant posturing may indicate agreement. This approach is less scientific and relies on many assumptions about their intent and psychology that will ultimately prove wrong many times, but if it is two 'enlightened' species trying to communicate with mutual intent, all you really need is patience.
In the end, it may all come down to writing, though. We have to assume that a developed species is in essence a species of tool builders, meaning that they probably have some form of representational alphabet or written language which we can work with. It also has the benefit of being still around after they've lost patience.
There are good reasons to write down knowledge, regardless of species. It affords a cheap and effective means of passing information around your community, thus improving it at a far greater rate than having to learn everything from another in verbal repetition. So, for mine, the written language will be (once we've figured out how their language works) the principal method by which we would communicate with alien lifeforms.
answered 44 mins ago
Tim B II
21.3k44790
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The problem is a lot broader than you may suspect. Different biology for vocalisations is one thing, but what about species that communicate by pheromone? Lighting up thinly covered bone plate in different sequences by flushing blood into their membrane coverings? These are just some of the possibilites; communicating with each other is hard enough when we belong to the same species. With aliens we haven't even begun to scratch the surface.
So how would we learn to communicate? Here are just 2 possible options;
1) Science & Math
The periodic table of the elements should be the same for all of us, no matter species of origin. This is a good representational place to start. We can then also teach math - hydrogen has 1 proton, helium 2, etc. Then we can teach true / false or yes / no concepts with 1+1=2 is true, 1+1=3 is false, etc.
There are going to be some massive differences in psychology to conquer and other misunderstandings based on how we all represent our science, but it's generally thought that math and science make useful 'rosetta stones' for other potential species out there.
2) Measure of Actions
In the first instance, we have to make an assumption that aliens will want to talk about the things that they care about. This may very well not be the case, but if we at least assume that they want to communicate with us, they'll try to make it easy for us just as we'll try to make it easy for them. Pointing to chairs and saying their equivalent of 'chair' for instance. Aggressive stances against us may well represent offence or anger, whereas less dominant posturing may indicate agreement. This approach is less scientific and relies on many assumptions about their intent and psychology that will ultimately prove wrong many times, but if it is two 'enlightened' species trying to communicate with mutual intent, all you really need is patience.
In the end, it may all come down to writing, though. We have to assume that a developed species is in essence a species of tool builders, meaning that they probably have some form of representational alphabet or written language which we can work with. It also has the benefit of being still around after they've lost patience.
There are good reasons to write down knowledge, regardless of species. It affords a cheap and effective means of passing information around your community, thus improving it at a far greater rate than having to learn everything from another in verbal repetition. So, for mine, the written language will be (once we've figured out how their language works) the principal method by which we would communicate with alien lifeforms.
answered 44 mins ago
Tim B II
21.3k44790
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The problem is a lot broader than you may suspect. Different biology for vocalisations is one thing, but what about species that communicate by pheromone? Lighting up thinly covered bone plate in different sequences by flushing blood into their membrane coverings? These are just some of the possibilites; communicating with each other is hard enough when we belong to the same species. With aliens we haven't even begun to scratch the surface.
So how would we learn to communicate? Here are just 2 possible options;
1) Science & Math
The periodic table of the elements should be the same for all of us, no matter species of origin. This is a good representational place to start. We can then also teach math - hydrogen has 1 proton, helium 2, etc. Then we can teach true / false or yes / no concepts with 1+1=2 is true, 1+1=3 is false, etc.
There are going to be some massive differences in psychology to conquer and other misunderstandings based on how we all represent our science, but it's generally thought that math and science make useful 'rosetta stones' for other potential species out there.
2) Measure of Actions
In the first instance, we have to make an assumption that aliens will want to talk about the things that they care about. This may very well not be the case, but if we at least assume that they want to communicate with us, they'll try to make it easy for us just as we'll try to make it easy for them. Pointing to chairs and saying their equivalent of 'chair' for instance. Aggressive stances against us may well represent offence or anger, whereas less dominant posturing may indicate agreement. This approach is less scientific and relies on many assumptions about their intent and psychology that will ultimately prove wrong many times, but if it is two 'enlightened' species trying to communicate with mutual intent, all you really need is patience.
In the end, it may all come down to writing, though. We have to assume that a developed species is in essence a species of tool builders, meaning that they probably have some form of representational alphabet or written language which we can work with. It also has the benefit of being still around after they've lost patience.
There are good reasons to write down knowledge, regardless of species. It affords a cheap and effective means of passing information around your community, thus improving it at a far greater rate than having to learn everything from another in verbal repetition. So, for mine, the written language will be (once we've figured out how their language works) the principal method by which we would communicate with alien lifeforms.
answered 44 mins ago
Tim B II
21.3k44790
The problem is a lot broader than you may suspect. Different biology for vocalisations is one thing, but what about species that communicate by pheromone? Lighting up thinly covered bone plate in different sequences by flushing blood into their membrane coverings? These are just some of the possibilites; communicating with each other is hard enough when we belong to the same species. With aliens we haven't even begun to scratch the surface.
So how would we learn to communicate? Here are just 2 possible options;
1) Science & Math
The periodic table of the elements should be the same for all of us, no matter species of origin. This is a good representational place to start. We can then also teach math - hydrogen has 1 proton, helium 2, etc. Then we can teach true / false or yes / no concepts with 1+1=2 is true, 1+1=3 is false, etc.
There are going to be some massive differences in psychology to conquer and other misunderstandings based on how we all represent our science, but it's generally thought that math and science make useful 'rosetta stones' for other potential species out there.
2) Measure of Actions
In the first instance, we have to make an assumption that aliens will want to talk about the things that they care about. This may very well not be the case, but if we at least assume that they want to communicate with us, they'll try to make it easy for us just as we'll try to make it easy for them. Pointing to chairs and saying their equivalent of 'chair' for instance. Aggressive stances against us may well represent offence or anger, whereas less dominant posturing may indicate agreement. This approach is less scientific and relies on many assumptions about their intent and psychology that will ultimately prove wrong many times, but if it is two 'enlightened' species trying to communicate with mutual intent, all you really need is patience.
In the end, it may all come down to writing, though. We have to assume that a developed species is in essence a species of tool builders, meaning that they probably have some form of representational alphabet or written language which we can work with. It also has the benefit of being still around after they've lost patience.
There are good reasons to write down knowledge, regardless of species. It affords a cheap and effective means of passing information around your community, thus improving it at a far greater rate than having to learn everything from another in verbal repetition. So, for mine, the written language will be (once we've figured out how their language works) the principal method by which we would communicate with alien lifeforms.
answered 44 mins ago
Tim B II
21.3k44790
answered 44 mins ago
Tim B II
21.3k44790
answered 44 mins ago
Tim B II
21.3k44790
answered 44 mins ago
Tim B II
21.3k44790
21.3k44790
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I don't see the problem with a Universal Translator. Of course its a go to solution but its one that works. The universal translator converts everything you hear into English with perfect accuracy. Every space faring civilization eventually develops their own one, so as a Human I don't need to speak in bubbles or clicks, the Aliens universal translator converts my language into theirs. You could do it both ways, however that complicates it because you have an echo when talking and that is often undesirable in conversations, games and movies where this is often applied (Like listening to a DUB while the original voice is going and with a few seconds of delay).
The issue is that something simply can't be pronounced due to physical differences and methods of communication. Lets say that dogs developed a language using barks and high pitched whines. But we as humans can't hear the upper range of the whine much less produce it so that entire part of the language is unpronounceable and unhearable to us. We have to rely on some form of technology to translate it, and a universal translator software is simply the easiest choice.
Every time you meet a new species, a bunch of linguists sit down, get some objects, show it to each other and say the words until you have developed a common framework between the two languages. You work together as 2 species to unite your languages and all the intricate features like idioms, similes etc etc and then push the new language update onto all the devices and now 2 entirely separated species can talk to each other.
Now if you want to go into the specifics of a universal translator and making it as realistic as possible, that is a completely different scenario. But if a human can learn to speak more than one language fluently, there is no reason we couldn't teach a computer the same thing.
answered 49 mins ago
Shadowzee
4,463720
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I don't see the problem with a Universal Translator. Of course its a go to solution but its one that works. The universal translator converts everything you hear into English with perfect accuracy. Every space faring civilization eventually develops their own one, so as a Human I don't need to speak in bubbles or clicks, the Aliens universal translator converts my language into theirs. You could do it both ways, however that complicates it because you have an echo when talking and that is often undesirable in conversations, games and movies where this is often applied (Like listening to a DUB while the original voice is going and with a few seconds of delay).
The issue is that something simply can't be pronounced due to physical differences and methods of communication. Lets say that dogs developed a language using barks and high pitched whines. But we as humans can't hear the upper range of the whine much less produce it so that entire part of the language is unpronounceable and unhearable to us. We have to rely on some form of technology to translate it, and a universal translator software is simply the easiest choice.
Every time you meet a new species, a bunch of linguists sit down, get some objects, show it to each other and say the words until you have developed a common framework between the two languages. You work together as 2 species to unite your languages and all the intricate features like idioms, similes etc etc and then push the new language update onto all the devices and now 2 entirely separated species can talk to each other.
Now if you want to go into the specifics of a universal translator and making it as realistic as possible, that is a completely different scenario. But if a human can learn to speak more than one language fluently, there is no reason we couldn't teach a computer the same thing.
answered 49 mins ago
Shadowzee
4,463720
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I don't see the problem with a Universal Translator. Of course its a go to solution but its one that works. The universal translator converts everything you hear into English with perfect accuracy. Every space faring civilization eventually develops their own one, so as a Human I don't need to speak in bubbles or clicks, the Aliens universal translator converts my language into theirs. You could do it both ways, however that complicates it because you have an echo when talking and that is often undesirable in conversations, games and movies where this is often applied (Like listening to a DUB while the original voice is going and with a few seconds of delay).
The issue is that something simply can't be pronounced due to physical differences and methods of communication. Lets say that dogs developed a language using barks and high pitched whines. But we as humans can't hear the upper range of the whine much less produce it so that entire part of the language is unpronounceable and unhearable to us. We have to rely on some form of technology to translate it, and a universal translator software is simply the easiest choice.
Every time you meet a new species, a bunch of linguists sit down, get some objects, show it to each other and say the words until you have developed a common framework between the two languages. You work together as 2 species to unite your languages and all the intricate features like idioms, similes etc etc and then push the new language update onto all the devices and now 2 entirely separated species can talk to each other.
Now if you want to go into the specifics of a universal translator and making it as realistic as possible, that is a completely different scenario. But if a human can learn to speak more than one language fluently, there is no reason we couldn't teach a computer the same thing.
answered 49 mins ago
Shadowzee
4,463720
I don't see the problem with a Universal Translator. Of course its a go to solution but its one that works. The universal translator converts everything you hear into English with perfect accuracy. Every space faring civilization eventually develops their own one, so as a Human I don't need to speak in bubbles or clicks, the Aliens universal translator converts my language into theirs. You could do it both ways, however that complicates it because you have an echo when talking and that is often undesirable in conversations, games and movies where this is often applied (Like listening to a DUB while the original voice is going and with a few seconds of delay).
The issue is that something simply can't be pronounced due to physical differences and methods of communication. Lets say that dogs developed a language using barks and high pitched whines. But we as humans can't hear the upper range of the whine much less produce it so that entire part of the language is unpronounceable and unhearable to us. We have to rely on some form of technology to translate it, and a universal translator software is simply the easiest choice.
Every time you meet a new species, a bunch of linguists sit down, get some objects, show it to each other and say the words until you have developed a common framework between the two languages. You work together as 2 species to unite your languages and all the intricate features like idioms, similes etc etc and then push the new language update onto all the devices and now 2 entirely separated species can talk to each other.
Now if you want to go into the specifics of a universal translator and making it as realistic as possible, that is a completely different scenario. But if a human can learn to speak more than one language fluently, there is no reason we couldn't teach a computer the same thing.
answered 49 mins ago
Shadowzee
4,463720
answered 49 mins ago
Shadowzee
4,463720
answered 49 mins ago
Shadowzee
4,463720
answered 49 mins ago
Shadowzee
4,463720
4,463720
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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