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Do “brownie points†derive from food-rationed “brown points�
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The OED has this to say about "brownie points."
Brownie point n. [probably a development < brown-nose n. at brown adj. Special uses 2, but popularly associated with 2 and hence frequently spelled with capital initial] colloq. (orig. U.S.)
a notional credit for an achievement; favour in the eyes of another, esp. gained by sycophantic or servile behaviour.
The sense 2 referenced in the etymology note (and boldened for emphasis) refers to "brownie" meaning:
[ < the colour of their uniform.] A member of the junior section of the organization known as the ‘Girl Guides’. Also attributive.
But Green's Dictionary of Slang, while listing the etymology as "unknown," offers an alternative theory:
recent research suggests that its origin may also lie in wartime American food rationing, in which ration points in various colours were required to make food purchases: red and brown ones, for example, referred to meats and fats. There are many references in wartime newspapers to ‘brown points’.
Indeed, it is not hard to find many uses of the term "brown points" in this fashion.
1944 - The Pantagraph (Bloomington, Illinois) 03 March 18 (paywall)
To confuse things just a bit further, I noticed this reference to "brownie point" from the 19th century, far before other attestations of "brownie point" in GDoS and the OED, which attest it in the 1950s and 60s.
1896 - Star-Gazette (Elmira, New York) 19 Dec. 5/1 (paywall)
Questions:
Does "brownie point" indeed derive from "brown point" as suggested by Green? Alternatively, is there evidence to back the theories related to "brown-nosing" or girl scouts?
Does the 1896 reference to "to the brownie point" have any relation to "brownie points" as known today, or is it an unrelated turn of phrase?
etymology slang
asked 5 hours ago
RaceYouAnytime
18.6k24195
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
favorite
The OED has this to say about "brownie points."
Brownie point n. [probably a development < brown-nose n. at brown adj. Special uses 2, but popularly associated with 2 and hence frequently spelled with capital initial] colloq. (orig. U.S.)
a notional credit for an achievement; favour in the eyes of another, esp. gained by sycophantic or servile behaviour.
The sense 2 referenced in the etymology note (and boldened for emphasis) refers to "brownie" meaning:
[ < the colour of their uniform.] A member of the junior section of the organization known as the ‘Girl Guides’. Also attributive.
But Green's Dictionary of Slang, while listing the etymology as "unknown," offers an alternative theory:
recent research suggests that its origin may also lie in wartime American food rationing, in which ration points in various colours were required to make food purchases: red and brown ones, for example, referred to meats and fats. There are many references in wartime newspapers to ‘brown points’.
Indeed, it is not hard to find many uses of the term "brown points" in this fashion.
1944 - The Pantagraph (Bloomington, Illinois) 03 March 18 (paywall)
To confuse things just a bit further, I noticed this reference to "brownie point" from the 19th century, far before other attestations of "brownie point" in GDoS and the OED, which attest it in the 1950s and 60s.
1896 - Star-Gazette (Elmira, New York) 19 Dec. 5/1 (paywall)
Questions:
Does "brownie point" indeed derive from "brown point" as suggested by Green? Alternatively, is there evidence to back the theories related to "brown-nosing" or girl scouts?
Does the 1896 reference to "to the brownie point" have any relation to "brownie points" as known today, or is it an unrelated turn of phrase?
etymology slang
asked 5 hours ago
RaceYouAnytime
18.6k24195
2
I've always assumed it came from the Girl Scouts -- scoring points to win a badge or some sort of rank advancement. Was indeed a popular term among kids in the 50s and 60s, and the use never seemed inconsistent with such an origin.
– Hot Licks
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
favorite
up vote
7
down vote
favorite
The OED has this to say about "brownie points."
Brownie point n. [probably a development < brown-nose n. at brown adj. Special uses 2, but popularly associated with 2 and hence frequently spelled with capital initial] colloq. (orig. U.S.)
a notional credit for an achievement; favour in the eyes of another, esp. gained by sycophantic or servile behaviour.
The sense 2 referenced in the etymology note (and boldened for emphasis) refers to "brownie" meaning:
[ < the colour of their uniform.] A member of the junior section of the organization known as the ‘Girl Guides’. Also attributive.
But Green's Dictionary of Slang, while listing the etymology as "unknown," offers an alternative theory:
recent research suggests that its origin may also lie in wartime American food rationing, in which ration points in various colours were required to make food purchases: red and brown ones, for example, referred to meats and fats. There are many references in wartime newspapers to ‘brown points’.
Indeed, it is not hard to find many uses of the term "brown points" in this fashion.
1944 - The Pantagraph (Bloomington, Illinois) 03 March 18 (paywall)
To confuse things just a bit further, I noticed this reference to "brownie point" from the 19th century, far before other attestations of "brownie point" in GDoS and the OED, which attest it in the 1950s and 60s.
1896 - Star-Gazette (Elmira, New York) 19 Dec. 5/1 (paywall)
Questions:
Does "brownie point" indeed derive from "brown point" as suggested by Green? Alternatively, is there evidence to back the theories related to "brown-nosing" or girl scouts?
Does the 1896 reference to "to the brownie point" have any relation to "brownie points" as known today, or is it an unrelated turn of phrase?
etymology slang
asked 5 hours ago
RaceYouAnytime
18.6k24195
The OED has this to say about "brownie points."
Brownie point n. [probably a development < brown-nose n. at brown adj. Special uses 2, but popularly associated with 2 and hence frequently spelled with capital initial] colloq. (orig. U.S.)
a notional credit for an achievement; favour in the eyes of another, esp. gained by sycophantic or servile behaviour.
The sense 2 referenced in the etymology note (and boldened for emphasis) refers to "brownie" meaning:
[ < the colour of their uniform.] A member of the junior section of the organization known as the ‘Girl Guides’. Also attributive.
But Green's Dictionary of Slang, while listing the etymology as "unknown," offers an alternative theory:
recent research suggests that its origin may also lie in wartime American food rationing, in which ration points in various colours were required to make food purchases: red and brown ones, for example, referred to meats and fats. There are many references in wartime newspapers to ‘brown points’.
Indeed, it is not hard to find many uses of the term "brown points" in this fashion.
1944 - The Pantagraph (Bloomington, Illinois) 03 March 18 (paywall)
To confuse things just a bit further, I noticed this reference to "brownie point" from the 19th century, far before other attestations of "brownie point" in GDoS and the OED, which attest it in the 1950s and 60s.
1896 - Star-Gazette (Elmira, New York) 19 Dec. 5/1 (paywall)
Questions:
Does "brownie point" indeed derive from "brown point" as suggested by Green? Alternatively, is there evidence to back the theories related to "brown-nosing" or girl scouts?
Does the 1896 reference to "to the brownie point" have any relation to "brownie points" as known today, or is it an unrelated turn of phrase?
etymology slang
etymology slang
asked 5 hours ago
RaceYouAnytime
18.6k24195
asked 5 hours ago
RaceYouAnytime
18.6k24195
asked 5 hours ago
RaceYouAnytime
18.6k24195
asked 5 hours ago
RaceYouAnytime
18.6k24195
asked 5 hours ago
RaceYouAnytime
18.6k24195
18.6k24195
2
I've always assumed it came from the Girl Scouts -- scoring points to win a badge or some sort of rank advancement. Was indeed a popular term among kids in the 50s and 60s, and the use never seemed inconsistent with such an origin.
– Hot Licks
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
2
I've always assumed it came from the Girl Scouts -- scoring points to win a badge or some sort of rank advancement. Was indeed a popular term among kids in the 50s and 60s, and the use never seemed inconsistent with such an origin.
– Hot Licks
4 hours ago
2
2
I've always assumed it came from the Girl Scouts -- scoring points to win a badge or some sort of rank advancement. Was indeed a popular term among kids in the 50s and 60s, and the use never seemed inconsistent with such an origin.
– Hot Licks
4 hours ago
I've always assumed it came from the Girl Scouts -- scoring points to win a badge or some sort of rank advancement. Was indeed a popular term among kids in the 50s and 60s, and the use never seemed inconsistent with such an origin.
– Hot Licks
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
Does "brownie point" indeed derive from "brown point" as suggested by Green? Alternatively, is there evidence to back the theories related to "brown-nosing" or girl scouts?
From World Wide Words:
In particular, there are many references in newspapers during 1943–44
to brown points, which may have contributed the points part of the
expression
and
However, it seems that Brownie points is actually an allusion to the
junior branch of the Girl Scouts (the Girl Guides in other countries)
Does the 1896 reference to "to the brownie point" have any relation to "brownie points" as known today, or is it an unrelated turn of phrase?
To my sense and from the reference I post, it does appear to be an unrelated turn of phrase.
It seems probable that two — or even three — threads came together to
form the phrase. There’s no reason why a slang term should have just
one origin, and in fact the more antecedents and associations one has,
the more likely it is to become popular.
The threads being army slang, the Brown (point) system of discipline, the Saturday Evening Post of the 1930's and brown nose of the 1940's. All of these are 40 some odd years after your 1898 finding of the phrase
answered 57 mins ago
lbf
13.4k21354
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
Does "brownie point" indeed derive from "brown point" as suggested by Green? Alternatively, is there evidence to back the theories related to "brown-nosing" or girl scouts?
From World Wide Words:
In particular, there are many references in newspapers during 1943–44
to brown points, which may have contributed the points part of the
expression
and
However, it seems that Brownie points is actually an allusion to the
junior branch of the Girl Scouts (the Girl Guides in other countries)
Does the 1896 reference to "to the brownie point" have any relation to "brownie points" as known today, or is it an unrelated turn of phrase?
To my sense and from the reference I post, it does appear to be an unrelated turn of phrase.
It seems probable that two — or even three — threads came together to
form the phrase. There’s no reason why a slang term should have just
one origin, and in fact the more antecedents and associations one has,
the more likely it is to become popular.
The threads being army slang, the Brown (point) system of discipline, the Saturday Evening Post of the 1930's and brown nose of the 1940's. All of these are 40 some odd years after your 1898 finding of the phrase
answered 57 mins ago
lbf
13.4k21354
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Does "brownie point" indeed derive from "brown point" as suggested by Green? Alternatively, is there evidence to back the theories related to "brown-nosing" or girl scouts?
From World Wide Words:
In particular, there are many references in newspapers during 1943–44
to brown points, which may have contributed the points part of the
expression
and
However, it seems that Brownie points is actually an allusion to the
junior branch of the Girl Scouts (the Girl Guides in other countries)
Does the 1896 reference to "to the brownie point" have any relation to "brownie points" as known today, or is it an unrelated turn of phrase?
To my sense and from the reference I post, it does appear to be an unrelated turn of phrase.
It seems probable that two — or even three — threads came together to
form the phrase. There’s no reason why a slang term should have just
one origin, and in fact the more antecedents and associations one has,
the more likely it is to become popular.
The threads being army slang, the Brown (point) system of discipline, the Saturday Evening Post of the 1930's and brown nose of the 1940's. All of these are 40 some odd years after your 1898 finding of the phrase
answered 57 mins ago
lbf
13.4k21354
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Does "brownie point" indeed derive from "brown point" as suggested by Green? Alternatively, is there evidence to back the theories related to "brown-nosing" or girl scouts?
From World Wide Words:
In particular, there are many references in newspapers during 1943–44
to brown points, which may have contributed the points part of the
expression
and
However, it seems that Brownie points is actually an allusion to the
junior branch of the Girl Scouts (the Girl Guides in other countries)
Does the 1896 reference to "to the brownie point" have any relation to "brownie points" as known today, or is it an unrelated turn of phrase?
To my sense and from the reference I post, it does appear to be an unrelated turn of phrase.
It seems probable that two — or even three — threads came together to
form the phrase. There’s no reason why a slang term should have just
one origin, and in fact the more antecedents and associations one has,
the more likely it is to become popular.
The threads being army slang, the Brown (point) system of discipline, the Saturday Evening Post of the 1930's and brown nose of the 1940's. All of these are 40 some odd years after your 1898 finding of the phrase
answered 57 mins ago
lbf
13.4k21354
Does "brownie point" indeed derive from "brown point" as suggested by Green? Alternatively, is there evidence to back the theories related to "brown-nosing" or girl scouts?
From World Wide Words:
In particular, there are many references in newspapers during 1943–44
to brown points, which may have contributed the points part of the
expression
and
However, it seems that Brownie points is actually an allusion to the
junior branch of the Girl Scouts (the Girl Guides in other countries)
Does the 1896 reference to "to the brownie point" have any relation to "brownie points" as known today, or is it an unrelated turn of phrase?
To my sense and from the reference I post, it does appear to be an unrelated turn of phrase.
It seems probable that two — or even three — threads came together to
form the phrase. There’s no reason why a slang term should have just
one origin, and in fact the more antecedents and associations one has,
the more likely it is to become popular.
The threads being army slang, the Brown (point) system of discipline, the Saturday Evening Post of the 1930's and brown nose of the 1940's. All of these are 40 some odd years after your 1898 finding of the phrase
answered 57 mins ago
lbf
13.4k21354
answered 57 mins ago
lbf
13.4k21354
answered 57 mins ago
lbf
13.4k21354
answered 57 mins ago
lbf
13.4k21354
13.4k21354
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2
I've always assumed it came from the Girl Scouts -- scoring points to win a badge or some sort of rank advancement. Was indeed a popular term among kids in the 50s and 60s, and the use never seemed inconsistent with such an origin.
– Hot Licks
4 hours ago