Is there an easy way to validate a high-level Sorcerer's spell list?

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Suppose I'm running a one-shot that starts at level 9, and I instruct players to generate characters using any officially published Sourcebooks to create their characters.

One of my players chooses to create a Sorcerer, and when they hand me their Spell List, they've generated this character with the following spells:

• Burning Hands (1st)


• Flame Arrows (3rd)


• Greater Invisiblity (4th)


• Ice Storm (4th)


• Stoneskin (4th)


• Vitriolic Sphere (4th)


• Control Winds (5th)


• Dominate Person (5th)


• Far Step (5th)


• Immolation (5th)

Looks fine, right? Ten spells in total, which is correct for a 9th level Sorcerer, and no spells are higher than 5th level.

...... Except they have way too many 5th level spells! By the normal rules of how Sorcerers generate spells, it's not possible to have more than 2 5th level spells known at level 9.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher

You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer spell list.

You learn an additional sorcerer spell of your choice at each level except 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 19th, and 20th. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

So that's an easy one, right? But what about a list that looks like this:

• Burning Hands (1st)


• Flame Arrows (3rd)


• Fly (3rd)


• Blight (4th)


• Greater Invisiblity (4th)


• Ice Storm (4th)


• Stoneskin (4th)


• Vitriolic Sphere (4th)


• Dominate Person (5th)


• Far Step (5th)

This still isn't right! The number of 5th level spells is possible for a 9th level Sorcerer, but with the total number of 4th level spells, they still know too many high level spells for their level.

Now, I can spend a half hour doing the math, trying to work out whether their chosen spells line up with what's possible for a Sorcerer, but that's a lot of busywork for me. Does there exist a simple rule or table I can follow to validate whether a Sorcerer's Known Spells are valid for their level?

Note that I've only specified Sorcerers, but practically speaking, this is just as valid a question for Bards, Warlocks, Eldritch Knights, and Arcane Tricksters, since they use nearly-identical schemes for learning spells.

dnd-5e spells sorcerer

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edited 1 hour ago

V2Blast

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up vote
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Suppose I'm running a one-shot that starts at level 9, and I instruct players to generate characters using any officially published Sourcebooks to create their characters.

One of my players chooses to create a Sorcerer, and when they hand me their Spell List, they've generated this character with the following spells:

• Burning Hands (1st)


• Flame Arrows (3rd)


• Greater Invisiblity (4th)


• Ice Storm (4th)


• Stoneskin (4th)


• Vitriolic Sphere (4th)


• Control Winds (5th)


• Dominate Person (5th)


• Far Step (5th)


• Immolation (5th)

Looks fine, right? Ten spells in total, which is correct for a 9th level Sorcerer, and no spells are higher than 5th level.

...... Except they have way too many 5th level spells! By the normal rules of how Sorcerers generate spells, it's not possible to have more than 2 5th level spells known at level 9.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher

You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer spell list.

You learn an additional sorcerer spell of your choice at each level except 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 19th, and 20th. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

So that's an easy one, right? But what about a list that looks like this:

• Burning Hands (1st)


• Flame Arrows (3rd)


• Fly (3rd)


• Blight (4th)


• Greater Invisiblity (4th)


• Ice Storm (4th)


• Stoneskin (4th)


• Vitriolic Sphere (4th)


• Dominate Person (5th)


• Far Step (5th)

This still isn't right! The number of 5th level spells is possible for a 9th level Sorcerer, but with the total number of 4th level spells, they still know too many high level spells for their level.

Now, I can spend a half hour doing the math, trying to work out whether their chosen spells line up with what's possible for a Sorcerer, but that's a lot of busywork for me. Does there exist a simple rule or table I can follow to validate whether a Sorcerer's Known Spells are valid for their level?

Note that I've only specified Sorcerers, but practically speaking, this is just as valid a question for Bards, Warlocks, Eldritch Knights, and Arcane Tricksters, since they use nearly-identical schemes for learning spells.

dnd-5e spells sorcerer

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

V2Blast

14.5k23595

asked 1 hour ago

Xirema

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up vote
5
down vote

favorite

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up vote
5
down vote

favorite

1

1

Suppose I'm running a one-shot that starts at level 9, and I instruct players to generate characters using any officially published Sourcebooks to create their characters.

One of my players chooses to create a Sorcerer, and when they hand me their Spell List, they've generated this character with the following spells:

• Burning Hands (1st)


• Flame Arrows (3rd)


• Greater Invisiblity (4th)


• Ice Storm (4th)


• Stoneskin (4th)


• Vitriolic Sphere (4th)


• Control Winds (5th)


• Dominate Person (5th)


• Far Step (5th)


• Immolation (5th)

Looks fine, right? Ten spells in total, which is correct for a 9th level Sorcerer, and no spells are higher than 5th level.

...... Except they have way too many 5th level spells! By the normal rules of how Sorcerers generate spells, it's not possible to have more than 2 5th level spells known at level 9.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher

You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer spell list.

You learn an additional sorcerer spell of your choice at each level except 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 19th, and 20th. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

So that's an easy one, right? But what about a list that looks like this:

• Burning Hands (1st)


• Flame Arrows (3rd)


• Fly (3rd)


• Blight (4th)


• Greater Invisiblity (4th)


• Ice Storm (4th)


• Stoneskin (4th)


• Vitriolic Sphere (4th)


• Dominate Person (5th)


• Far Step (5th)

This still isn't right! The number of 5th level spells is possible for a 9th level Sorcerer, but with the total number of 4th level spells, they still know too many high level spells for their level.

Now, I can spend a half hour doing the math, trying to work out whether their chosen spells line up with what's possible for a Sorcerer, but that's a lot of busywork for me. Does there exist a simple rule or table I can follow to validate whether a Sorcerer's Known Spells are valid for their level?

Note that I've only specified Sorcerers, but practically speaking, this is just as valid a question for Bards, Warlocks, Eldritch Knights, and Arcane Tricksters, since they use nearly-identical schemes for learning spells.

dnd-5e spells sorcerer

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

V2Blast

14.5k23595

asked 1 hour ago

Xirema

5,4031537

Suppose I'm running a one-shot that starts at level 9, and I instruct players to generate characters using any officially published Sourcebooks to create their characters.

One of my players chooses to create a Sorcerer, and when they hand me their Spell List, they've generated this character with the following spells:

• Burning Hands (1st)


• Flame Arrows (3rd)


• Greater Invisiblity (4th)


• Ice Storm (4th)


• Stoneskin (4th)


• Vitriolic Sphere (4th)


• Control Winds (5th)


• Dominate Person (5th)


• Far Step (5th)


• Immolation (5th)

Looks fine, right? Ten spells in total, which is correct for a 9th level Sorcerer, and no spells are higher than 5th level.

...... Except they have way too many 5th level spells! By the normal rules of how Sorcerers generate spells, it's not possible to have more than 2 5th level spells known at level 9.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher

You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer spell list.

You learn an additional sorcerer spell of your choice at each level except 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 19th, and 20th. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

So that's an easy one, right? But what about a list that looks like this:

• Burning Hands (1st)


• Flame Arrows (3rd)


• Fly (3rd)


• Blight (4th)


• Greater Invisiblity (4th)


• Ice Storm (4th)


• Stoneskin (4th)


• Vitriolic Sphere (4th)


• Dominate Person (5th)


• Far Step (5th)

This still isn't right! The number of 5th level spells is possible for a 9th level Sorcerer, but with the total number of 4th level spells, they still know too many high level spells for their level.

Now, I can spend a half hour doing the math, trying to work out whether their chosen spells line up with what's possible for a Sorcerer, but that's a lot of busywork for me. Does there exist a simple rule or table I can follow to validate whether a Sorcerer's Known Spells are valid for their level?

Note that I've only specified Sorcerers, but practically speaking, this is just as valid a question for Bards, Warlocks, Eldritch Knights, and Arcane Tricksters, since they use nearly-identical schemes for learning spells.

dnd-5e spells sorcerer

dnd-5e spells sorcerer

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

V2Blast

14.5k23595

asked 1 hour ago

Xirema

5,4031537

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

V2Blast

14.5k23595

asked 1 hour ago

Xirema

5,4031537

share|improve this question

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

V2Blast

14.5k23595

edited 1 hour ago

V2Blast

14.5k23595

edited 1 hour ago

V2Blast

14.5k23595

14.5k23595

asked 1 hour ago

Xirema

5,4031537

asked 1 hour ago

Xirema

5,4031537

asked 1 hour ago

Xirema

5,4031537

5,4031537

add a comment | 

add a comment | 

3 Answers
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oldest

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up vote
7
down vote

Yes, there is a table.

This is the rule causing all the headache:

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

In the first table, we simply tabulate all the opportunities to learn a spell normally.

In the second table, we assume that the player is always replacing a spell of their lowest level. While this might not be the case, this assumption allows us to get a meaningful upper bound for their highest levels of spells known.

In this third table, we assume that we are ALWAYS applying replacement and that we are replacing our lowest levels of spells known. This gives us the upper bound for how many spells of the highest levels we can have. If the player has fewer spells of those highest levels, they can have instead the remaining as lower-level spells.

For example, at level 20, it's possible to have five level 9 spells. If instead, the player had four level 9 spells, they could have that vacancy filled with a level 8th or lower spell.

In the case of a 9th level caster, which is relevant to you, we have the following upper limits:

Level 3: 4 known spells

Level 4: 4 known spells

Level 5: 2 known spells

Since this is an upper bound, you should read this like so instead:

4 Level-3 or lower spells

4 Level-4 or lower spells

2 Level-5 or lower spells

I hope this helps.

share|improve this answer

edited 39 mins ago

answered 50 mins ago

Axoren

5,4922153

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  +1 I ran the numbers and got the same results as the third table in this answer. Since you can always opt to learn a lower level spell, any combination below these upper bounds is also valid.
  – Quadratic Wizard
  34 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
1
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Simple! Here are 2 different ways of doing it.

Counting maximum number of spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. They can also swap out 1 spell per level. So now we count, for each spell level, how many spells they could have. For sorcerer, its quite easy, it's just 2 spells per level with that spell slot.

• Level 2 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 3 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 4 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 5 (or lower): 2 spells

Now we go backwards, starting at the highest spell level. Your sorcerer has a valid number of 5th level spells. Then 4th level. We see that it is invalid, he can't have 5 of them.

Imagine now that he actually had some level 3 spell instead of Far Step (5th). Following the same algorithm, he had a valid number of "Level 5 (or lower)" spells (one of 5th level, and one of 4th). Then there are 4 lvl4 spells, also valid. Then 3 lvl3 spells, also valid.

Seems complicated, but its just summing a few times.

---

Matching spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. If no spells were relearned, then he should have the following 10 spells:

1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5

So, your list contains

1 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 5 5

We can scratch those that match right away (in bold), and your list is reduced to

_ _ _ 4 4 4 _ _ 5 _

So now all we have to is count how many levels there have been where the player has slots of levels 4 and 5. You don't repeat levels (since you can only switch 1 spell per level). If the amount of levels is smaller than the amount of unmatched spells, then it is an invalid spell selection. It is easier to do this backwards, starting with higher levels.

In your case, the player has 1 level with a 5th level slot. Meaning that the single unmatched 5th lvl spell is valid. After this, the player has 2 levels with a 4th level slot. Because he has 3 lvl4 spells, then this character is not valid.

share|improve this answer

edited 25 mins ago

answered 52 mins ago

BlueMoon93

9,611954105

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  I think your previous rule was simpler, to be frank. I hadn't fully thought it through before you edited it out, so I'll have to check the edit history to confirm it works. However if it works, I definitely think your answer could be improved if you re-added that pattern rule.
  – Axoren
  33 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Axoren Added! I thought it was simpler, but I guess opinions may differ :p Test it out, let me know if I messed up
  – BlueMoon93
  30 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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This is not very feasible.

Due to the fact that Sorcerers, and other "learning" casters, can swap out the spells they already know for a different one they can cast, this means that there is a large number of possible values.

Take, for example, a level 5 sorcerer, who can cast up to level 3 spells. At sorcerer level 3, they would be able to swap out one of their level 1 spells for a level 2 spell. Every sorcerer level after that, they could technically swap out every 1st level spell for another spell. By level 5, a Sorcerer could technically have no level 1 spells.

In addition, the sorcerer can opt to learn spells not of a higher spell level and instead learn a new spell of lower level.

A sorcerer, at level 5, could have anywhere between 0-6 level one spells, 0-6 level two spells, and 0-2 level three spells.

The only reasonable thing that we can feasibly determine is what the maximum possible number of known spells of the maximum spell levels available are.

1. Level 3: Spell level 2: 2 possible


2. Level 4: Spell level 2: 4 possible


3. Level 5: Spell level 3: 2 possible


4. Level 6: Spell level 3: 4 possible


5. Level 7: Spell level 4: 2 possible


6. Level 8: Spell level 4: 4 possible


7. Level 9: Spell level 5: 2 possible


8. Level 10: Spell level 5: 4 possible


9. Level 11: Spell level 6: 2 possible


10. Level 12: Spell level 6: 3 possible


11. Level 13: Spell level 7: 2 possible


12. Level 14: Spell level 7: 3 possible


13. Level 15: Spell level 8: 2 possible


14. Level 16: Spell level 8: 3 possible


15. Level 17: Spell level 9: 2 possible


16. Level 18: Spell level 9: 3 possible


17. Level 18: Spell level 9: 4 possible


18. Level 18: Spell level 9: 5 possible

For Sorcerers, there does seem to be a barebones pattern for the maximum spell level capacity. Their maximum spell level is determined by their sorcerer level, divided by 2, rounded up.

• If they're level 18+, they gain no new spell levels or spells learned.


• If they're level 11 or less:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 4.
  
  


• If they're level 12 or more:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 3.
  
  

Because of the limited number of spells known to Sorcerers, this pattern is only feasible with them. Bards, on the other hand, can know 7 more spells, and their pattern is a lot more sporadic.

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edited 15 mins ago

answered 56 mins ago

Daniel Zastoupil

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3 Answers
3

active

oldest

votes

3 Answers
3

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

up vote
7
down vote

Yes, there is a table.

This is the rule causing all the headache:

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

In the first table, we simply tabulate all the opportunities to learn a spell normally.

In the second table, we assume that the player is always replacing a spell of their lowest level. While this might not be the case, this assumption allows us to get a meaningful upper bound for their highest levels of spells known.

In this third table, we assume that we are ALWAYS applying replacement and that we are replacing our lowest levels of spells known. This gives us the upper bound for how many spells of the highest levels we can have. If the player has fewer spells of those highest levels, they can have instead the remaining as lower-level spells.

For example, at level 20, it's possible to have five level 9 spells. If instead, the player had four level 9 spells, they could have that vacancy filled with a level 8th or lower spell.

In the case of a 9th level caster, which is relevant to you, we have the following upper limits:

Level 3: 4 known spells

Level 4: 4 known spells

Level 5: 2 known spells

Since this is an upper bound, you should read this like so instead:

4 Level-3 or lower spells

4 Level-4 or lower spells

2 Level-5 or lower spells

I hope this helps.

share|improve this answer

edited 39 mins ago

answered 50 mins ago

Axoren

5,4922153

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  +1 I ran the numbers and got the same results as the third table in this answer. Since you can always opt to learn a lower level spell, any combination below these upper bounds is also valid.
  – Quadratic Wizard
  34 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
7
down vote

Yes, there is a table.

This is the rule causing all the headache:

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

In the first table, we simply tabulate all the opportunities to learn a spell normally.

In the second table, we assume that the player is always replacing a spell of their lowest level. While this might not be the case, this assumption allows us to get a meaningful upper bound for their highest levels of spells known.

In this third table, we assume that we are ALWAYS applying replacement and that we are replacing our lowest levels of spells known. This gives us the upper bound for how many spells of the highest levels we can have. If the player has fewer spells of those highest levels, they can have instead the remaining as lower-level spells.

For example, at level 20, it's possible to have five level 9 spells. If instead, the player had four level 9 spells, they could have that vacancy filled with a level 8th or lower spell.

In the case of a 9th level caster, which is relevant to you, we have the following upper limits:

Level 3: 4 known spells

Level 4: 4 known spells

Level 5: 2 known spells

Since this is an upper bound, you should read this like so instead:

4 Level-3 or lower spells

4 Level-4 or lower spells

2 Level-5 or lower spells

I hope this helps.

share|improve this answer

edited 39 mins ago

answered 50 mins ago

Axoren

5,4922153

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  +1 I ran the numbers and got the same results as the third table in this answer. Since you can always opt to learn a lower level spell, any combination below these upper bounds is also valid.
  – Quadratic Wizard
  34 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
7
down vote

up vote
7
down vote

Yes, there is a table.

This is the rule causing all the headache:

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

In the first table, we simply tabulate all the opportunities to learn a spell normally.

In the second table, we assume that the player is always replacing a spell of their lowest level. While this might not be the case, this assumption allows us to get a meaningful upper bound for their highest levels of spells known.

In this third table, we assume that we are ALWAYS applying replacement and that we are replacing our lowest levels of spells known. This gives us the upper bound for how many spells of the highest levels we can have. If the player has fewer spells of those highest levels, they can have instead the remaining as lower-level spells.

For example, at level 20, it's possible to have five level 9 spells. If instead, the player had four level 9 spells, they could have that vacancy filled with a level 8th or lower spell.

In the case of a 9th level caster, which is relevant to you, we have the following upper limits:

Level 3: 4 known spells

Level 4: 4 known spells

Level 5: 2 known spells

Since this is an upper bound, you should read this like so instead:

4 Level-3 or lower spells

4 Level-4 or lower spells

2 Level-5 or lower spells

I hope this helps.

share|improve this answer

edited 39 mins ago

answered 50 mins ago

Axoren

5,4922153

Yes, there is a table.

This is the rule causing all the headache:

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

In the first table, we simply tabulate all the opportunities to learn a spell normally.

In the second table, we assume that the player is always replacing a spell of their lowest level. While this might not be the case, this assumption allows us to get a meaningful upper bound for their highest levels of spells known.

In this third table, we assume that we are ALWAYS applying replacement and that we are replacing our lowest levels of spells known. This gives us the upper bound for how many spells of the highest levels we can have. If the player has fewer spells of those highest levels, they can have instead the remaining as lower-level spells.

For example, at level 20, it's possible to have five level 9 spells. If instead, the player had four level 9 spells, they could have that vacancy filled with a level 8th or lower spell.

In the case of a 9th level caster, which is relevant to you, we have the following upper limits:

Level 3: 4 known spells

Level 4: 4 known spells

Level 5: 2 known spells

Since this is an upper bound, you should read this like so instead:

4 Level-3 or lower spells

4 Level-4 or lower spells

2 Level-5 or lower spells

I hope this helps.

share|improve this answer

edited 39 mins ago

answered 50 mins ago

Axoren

5,4922153

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited 39 mins ago

edited 39 mins ago

edited 39 mins ago

answered 50 mins ago

Axoren

5,4922153

answered 50 mins ago

Axoren

5,4922153

answered 50 mins ago

Axoren

5,4922153

5,4922153

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  +1 I ran the numbers and got the same results as the third table in this answer. Since you can always opt to learn a lower level spell, any combination below these upper bounds is also valid.
  – Quadratic Wizard
  34 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  +1 I ran the numbers and got the same results as the third table in this answer. Since you can always opt to learn a lower level spell, any combination below these upper bounds is also valid.
  – Quadratic Wizard
  34 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

1

1

+1 I ran the numbers and got the same results as the third table in this answer. Since you can always opt to learn a lower level spell, any combination below these upper bounds is also valid.
– Quadratic Wizard
34 mins ago

+1 I ran the numbers and got the same results as the third table in this answer. Since you can always opt to learn a lower level spell, any combination below these upper bounds is also valid.
– Quadratic Wizard
34 mins ago

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

Simple! Here are 2 different ways of doing it.

Counting maximum number of spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. They can also swap out 1 spell per level. So now we count, for each spell level, how many spells they could have. For sorcerer, its quite easy, it's just 2 spells per level with that spell slot.

• Level 2 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 3 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 4 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 5 (or lower): 2 spells

Now we go backwards, starting at the highest spell level. Your sorcerer has a valid number of 5th level spells. Then 4th level. We see that it is invalid, he can't have 5 of them.

Imagine now that he actually had some level 3 spell instead of Far Step (5th). Following the same algorithm, he had a valid number of "Level 5 (or lower)" spells (one of 5th level, and one of 4th). Then there are 4 lvl4 spells, also valid. Then 3 lvl3 spells, also valid.

Seems complicated, but its just summing a few times.

---

Matching spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. If no spells were relearned, then he should have the following 10 spells:

1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5

So, your list contains

1 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 5 5

We can scratch those that match right away (in bold), and your list is reduced to

_ _ _ 4 4 4 _ _ 5 _

So now all we have to is count how many levels there have been where the player has slots of levels 4 and 5. You don't repeat levels (since you can only switch 1 spell per level). If the amount of levels is smaller than the amount of unmatched spells, then it is an invalid spell selection. It is easier to do this backwards, starting with higher levels.

In your case, the player has 1 level with a 5th level slot. Meaning that the single unmatched 5th lvl spell is valid. After this, the player has 2 levels with a 4th level slot. Because he has 3 lvl4 spells, then this character is not valid.

share|improve this answer

edited 25 mins ago

answered 52 mins ago

BlueMoon93

9,611954105

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I think your previous rule was simpler, to be frank. I hadn't fully thought it through before you edited it out, so I'll have to check the edit history to confirm it works. However if it works, I definitely think your answer could be improved if you re-added that pattern rule.
  – Axoren
  33 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Axoren Added! I thought it was simpler, but I guess opinions may differ :p Test it out, let me know if I messed up
  – BlueMoon93
  30 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

Simple! Here are 2 different ways of doing it.

Counting maximum number of spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. They can also swap out 1 spell per level. So now we count, for each spell level, how many spells they could have. For sorcerer, its quite easy, it's just 2 spells per level with that spell slot.

• Level 2 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 3 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 4 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 5 (or lower): 2 spells

Now we go backwards, starting at the highest spell level. Your sorcerer has a valid number of 5th level spells. Then 4th level. We see that it is invalid, he can't have 5 of them.

Imagine now that he actually had some level 3 spell instead of Far Step (5th). Following the same algorithm, he had a valid number of "Level 5 (or lower)" spells (one of 5th level, and one of 4th). Then there are 4 lvl4 spells, also valid. Then 3 lvl3 spells, also valid.

Seems complicated, but its just summing a few times.

---

Matching spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. If no spells were relearned, then he should have the following 10 spells:

1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5

So, your list contains

1 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 5 5

We can scratch those that match right away (in bold), and your list is reduced to

_ _ _ 4 4 4 _ _ 5 _

So now all we have to is count how many levels there have been where the player has slots of levels 4 and 5. You don't repeat levels (since you can only switch 1 spell per level). If the amount of levels is smaller than the amount of unmatched spells, then it is an invalid spell selection. It is easier to do this backwards, starting with higher levels.

In your case, the player has 1 level with a 5th level slot. Meaning that the single unmatched 5th lvl spell is valid. After this, the player has 2 levels with a 4th level slot. Because he has 3 lvl4 spells, then this character is not valid.

share|improve this answer

edited 25 mins ago

answered 52 mins ago

BlueMoon93

9,611954105

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I think your previous rule was simpler, to be frank. I hadn't fully thought it through before you edited it out, so I'll have to check the edit history to confirm it works. However if it works, I definitely think your answer could be improved if you re-added that pattern rule.
  – Axoren
  33 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Axoren Added! I thought it was simpler, but I guess opinions may differ :p Test it out, let me know if I messed up
  – BlueMoon93
  30 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

up vote
1
down vote

Simple! Here are 2 different ways of doing it.

Counting maximum number of spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. They can also swap out 1 spell per level. So now we count, for each spell level, how many spells they could have. For sorcerer, its quite easy, it's just 2 spells per level with that spell slot.

• Level 2 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 3 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 4 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 5 (or lower): 2 spells

Now we go backwards, starting at the highest spell level. Your sorcerer has a valid number of 5th level spells. Then 4th level. We see that it is invalid, he can't have 5 of them.

Imagine now that he actually had some level 3 spell instead of Far Step (5th). Following the same algorithm, he had a valid number of "Level 5 (or lower)" spells (one of 5th level, and one of 4th). Then there are 4 lvl4 spells, also valid. Then 3 lvl3 spells, also valid.

Seems complicated, but its just summing a few times.

---

Matching spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. If no spells were relearned, then he should have the following 10 spells:

1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5

So, your list contains

1 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 5 5

We can scratch those that match right away (in bold), and your list is reduced to

_ _ _ 4 4 4 _ _ 5 _

So now all we have to is count how many levels there have been where the player has slots of levels 4 and 5. You don't repeat levels (since you can only switch 1 spell per level). If the amount of levels is smaller than the amount of unmatched spells, then it is an invalid spell selection. It is easier to do this backwards, starting with higher levels.

In your case, the player has 1 level with a 5th level slot. Meaning that the single unmatched 5th lvl spell is valid. After this, the player has 2 levels with a 4th level slot. Because he has 3 lvl4 spells, then this character is not valid.

share|improve this answer

edited 25 mins ago

answered 52 mins ago

BlueMoon93

9,611954105

Simple! Here are 2 different ways of doing it.

Counting maximum number of spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. They can also swap out 1 spell per level. So now we count, for each spell level, how many spells they could have. For sorcerer, its quite easy, it's just 2 spells per level with that spell slot.

• Level 2 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 3 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 4 (or lower): 4 spells


• Level 5 (or lower): 2 spells

Now we go backwards, starting at the highest spell level. Your sorcerer has a valid number of 5th level spells. Then 4th level. We see that it is invalid, he can't have 5 of them.

Imagine now that he actually had some level 3 spell instead of Far Step (5th). Following the same algorithm, he had a valid number of "Level 5 (or lower)" spells (one of 5th level, and one of 4th). Then there are 4 lvl4 spells, also valid. Then 3 lvl3 spells, also valid.

Seems complicated, but its just summing a few times.

---

Matching spells

Ok, so let's see how Sorcerer gets spells.

Sorcerers learn 1 spell each level. If no spells were relearned, then he should have the following 10 spells:

1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5

So, your list contains

1 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 5 5

We can scratch those that match right away (in bold), and your list is reduced to

_ _ _ 4 4 4 _ _ 5 _

So now all we have to is count how many levels there have been where the player has slots of levels 4 and 5. You don't repeat levels (since you can only switch 1 spell per level). If the amount of levels is smaller than the amount of unmatched spells, then it is an invalid spell selection. It is easier to do this backwards, starting with higher levels.

In your case, the player has 1 level with a 5th level slot. Meaning that the single unmatched 5th lvl spell is valid. After this, the player has 2 levels with a 4th level slot. Because he has 3 lvl4 spells, then this character is not valid.

share|improve this answer

edited 25 mins ago

answered 52 mins ago

BlueMoon93

9,611954105

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited 25 mins ago

edited 25 mins ago

edited 25 mins ago

answered 52 mins ago

BlueMoon93

9,611954105

answered 52 mins ago

BlueMoon93

9,611954105

answered 52 mins ago

BlueMoon93

9,611954105

9,611954105

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I think your previous rule was simpler, to be frank. I hadn't fully thought it through before you edited it out, so I'll have to check the edit history to confirm it works. However if it works, I definitely think your answer could be improved if you re-added that pattern rule.
  – Axoren
  33 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Axoren Added! I thought it was simpler, but I guess opinions may differ :p Test it out, let me know if I messed up
  – BlueMoon93
  30 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I think your previous rule was simpler, to be frank. I hadn't fully thought it through before you edited it out, so I'll have to check the edit history to confirm it works. However if it works, I definitely think your answer could be improved if you re-added that pattern rule.
  – Axoren
  33 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Axoren Added! I thought it was simpler, but I guess opinions may differ :p Test it out, let me know if I messed up
  – BlueMoon93
  30 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

I think your previous rule was simpler, to be frank. I hadn't fully thought it through before you edited it out, so I'll have to check the edit history to confirm it works. However if it works, I definitely think your answer could be improved if you re-added that pattern rule.
– Axoren
33 mins ago

I think your previous rule was simpler, to be frank. I hadn't fully thought it through before you edited it out, so I'll have to check the edit history to confirm it works. However if it works, I definitely think your answer could be improved if you re-added that pattern rule.
– Axoren
33 mins ago

@Axoren Added! I thought it was simpler, but I guess opinions may differ :p Test it out, let me know if I messed up
– BlueMoon93
30 mins ago

@Axoren Added! I thought it was simpler, but I guess opinions may differ :p Test it out, let me know if I messed up
– BlueMoon93
30 mins ago

add a comment | 

up vote
0
down vote

This is not very feasible.

Due to the fact that Sorcerers, and other "learning" casters, can swap out the spells they already know for a different one they can cast, this means that there is a large number of possible values.

Take, for example, a level 5 sorcerer, who can cast up to level 3 spells. At sorcerer level 3, they would be able to swap out one of their level 1 spells for a level 2 spell. Every sorcerer level after that, they could technically swap out every 1st level spell for another spell. By level 5, a Sorcerer could technically have no level 1 spells.

In addition, the sorcerer can opt to learn spells not of a higher spell level and instead learn a new spell of lower level.

A sorcerer, at level 5, could have anywhere between 0-6 level one spells, 0-6 level two spells, and 0-2 level three spells.

The only reasonable thing that we can feasibly determine is what the maximum possible number of known spells of the maximum spell levels available are.

1. Level 3: Spell level 2: 2 possible


2. Level 4: Spell level 2: 4 possible


3. Level 5: Spell level 3: 2 possible


4. Level 6: Spell level 3: 4 possible


5. Level 7: Spell level 4: 2 possible


6. Level 8: Spell level 4: 4 possible


7. Level 9: Spell level 5: 2 possible


8. Level 10: Spell level 5: 4 possible


9. Level 11: Spell level 6: 2 possible


10. Level 12: Spell level 6: 3 possible


11. Level 13: Spell level 7: 2 possible


12. Level 14: Spell level 7: 3 possible


13. Level 15: Spell level 8: 2 possible


14. Level 16: Spell level 8: 3 possible


15. Level 17: Spell level 9: 2 possible


16. Level 18: Spell level 9: 3 possible


17. Level 18: Spell level 9: 4 possible


18. Level 18: Spell level 9: 5 possible

For Sorcerers, there does seem to be a barebones pattern for the maximum spell level capacity. Their maximum spell level is determined by their sorcerer level, divided by 2, rounded up.

• If they're level 18+, they gain no new spell levels or spells learned.


• If they're level 11 or less:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 4.
  
  


• If they're level 12 or more:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 3.
  
  

Because of the limited number of spells known to Sorcerers, this pattern is only feasible with them. Bards, on the other hand, can know 7 more spells, and their pattern is a lot more sporadic.

share|improve this answer

edited 15 mins ago

answered 56 mins ago

Daniel Zastoupil

4,9271155

add a comment | 

up vote
0
down vote

This is not very feasible.

Due to the fact that Sorcerers, and other "learning" casters, can swap out the spells they already know for a different one they can cast, this means that there is a large number of possible values.

Take, for example, a level 5 sorcerer, who can cast up to level 3 spells. At sorcerer level 3, they would be able to swap out one of their level 1 spells for a level 2 spell. Every sorcerer level after that, they could technically swap out every 1st level spell for another spell. By level 5, a Sorcerer could technically have no level 1 spells.

In addition, the sorcerer can opt to learn spells not of a higher spell level and instead learn a new spell of lower level.

A sorcerer, at level 5, could have anywhere between 0-6 level one spells, 0-6 level two spells, and 0-2 level three spells.

The only reasonable thing that we can feasibly determine is what the maximum possible number of known spells of the maximum spell levels available are.

1. Level 3: Spell level 2: 2 possible


2. Level 4: Spell level 2: 4 possible


3. Level 5: Spell level 3: 2 possible


4. Level 6: Spell level 3: 4 possible


5. Level 7: Spell level 4: 2 possible


6. Level 8: Spell level 4: 4 possible


7. Level 9: Spell level 5: 2 possible


8. Level 10: Spell level 5: 4 possible


9. Level 11: Spell level 6: 2 possible


10. Level 12: Spell level 6: 3 possible


11. Level 13: Spell level 7: 2 possible


12. Level 14: Spell level 7: 3 possible


13. Level 15: Spell level 8: 2 possible


14. Level 16: Spell level 8: 3 possible


15. Level 17: Spell level 9: 2 possible


16. Level 18: Spell level 9: 3 possible


17. Level 18: Spell level 9: 4 possible


18. Level 18: Spell level 9: 5 possible

For Sorcerers, there does seem to be a barebones pattern for the maximum spell level capacity. Their maximum spell level is determined by their sorcerer level, divided by 2, rounded up.

• If they're level 18+, they gain no new spell levels or spells learned.


• If they're level 11 or less:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 4.
  
  


• If they're level 12 or more:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 3.
  
  

Because of the limited number of spells known to Sorcerers, this pattern is only feasible with them. Bards, on the other hand, can know 7 more spells, and their pattern is a lot more sporadic.

share|improve this answer

edited 15 mins ago

answered 56 mins ago

Daniel Zastoupil

4,9271155

add a comment | 

up vote
0
down vote

up vote
0
down vote

This is not very feasible.

Due to the fact that Sorcerers, and other "learning" casters, can swap out the spells they already know for a different one they can cast, this means that there is a large number of possible values.

Take, for example, a level 5 sorcerer, who can cast up to level 3 spells. At sorcerer level 3, they would be able to swap out one of their level 1 spells for a level 2 spell. Every sorcerer level after that, they could technically swap out every 1st level spell for another spell. By level 5, a Sorcerer could technically have no level 1 spells.

In addition, the sorcerer can opt to learn spells not of a higher spell level and instead learn a new spell of lower level.

A sorcerer, at level 5, could have anywhere between 0-6 level one spells, 0-6 level two spells, and 0-2 level three spells.

The only reasonable thing that we can feasibly determine is what the maximum possible number of known spells of the maximum spell levels available are.

1. Level 3: Spell level 2: 2 possible


2. Level 4: Spell level 2: 4 possible


3. Level 5: Spell level 3: 2 possible


4. Level 6: Spell level 3: 4 possible


5. Level 7: Spell level 4: 2 possible


6. Level 8: Spell level 4: 4 possible


7. Level 9: Spell level 5: 2 possible


8. Level 10: Spell level 5: 4 possible


9. Level 11: Spell level 6: 2 possible


10. Level 12: Spell level 6: 3 possible


11. Level 13: Spell level 7: 2 possible


12. Level 14: Spell level 7: 3 possible


13. Level 15: Spell level 8: 2 possible


14. Level 16: Spell level 8: 3 possible


15. Level 17: Spell level 9: 2 possible


16. Level 18: Spell level 9: 3 possible


17. Level 18: Spell level 9: 4 possible


18. Level 18: Spell level 9: 5 possible

For Sorcerers, there does seem to be a barebones pattern for the maximum spell level capacity. Their maximum spell level is determined by their sorcerer level, divided by 2, rounded up.

• If they're level 18+, they gain no new spell levels or spells learned.


• If they're level 11 or less:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 4.
  
  


• If they're level 12 or more:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 3.
  
  

Because of the limited number of spells known to Sorcerers, this pattern is only feasible with them. Bards, on the other hand, can know 7 more spells, and their pattern is a lot more sporadic.

share|improve this answer

edited 15 mins ago

answered 56 mins ago

Daniel Zastoupil

4,9271155

This is not very feasible.

Due to the fact that Sorcerers, and other "learning" casters, can swap out the spells they already know for a different one they can cast, this means that there is a large number of possible values.

Take, for example, a level 5 sorcerer, who can cast up to level 3 spells. At sorcerer level 3, they would be able to swap out one of their level 1 spells for a level 2 spell. Every sorcerer level after that, they could technically swap out every 1st level spell for another spell. By level 5, a Sorcerer could technically have no level 1 spells.

In addition, the sorcerer can opt to learn spells not of a higher spell level and instead learn a new spell of lower level.

A sorcerer, at level 5, could have anywhere between 0-6 level one spells, 0-6 level two spells, and 0-2 level three spells.

The only reasonable thing that we can feasibly determine is what the maximum possible number of known spells of the maximum spell levels available are.

1. Level 3: Spell level 2: 2 possible


2. Level 4: Spell level 2: 4 possible


3. Level 5: Spell level 3: 2 possible


4. Level 6: Spell level 3: 4 possible


5. Level 7: Spell level 4: 2 possible


6. Level 8: Spell level 4: 4 possible


7. Level 9: Spell level 5: 2 possible


8. Level 10: Spell level 5: 4 possible


9. Level 11: Spell level 6: 2 possible


10. Level 12: Spell level 6: 3 possible


11. Level 13: Spell level 7: 2 possible


12. Level 14: Spell level 7: 3 possible


13. Level 15: Spell level 8: 2 possible


14. Level 16: Spell level 8: 3 possible


15. Level 17: Spell level 9: 2 possible


16. Level 18: Spell level 9: 3 possible


17. Level 18: Spell level 9: 4 possible


18. Level 18: Spell level 9: 5 possible

For Sorcerers, there does seem to be a barebones pattern for the maximum spell level capacity. Their maximum spell level is determined by their sorcerer level, divided by 2, rounded up.

• If they're level 18+, they gain no new spell levels or spells learned.


• If they're level 11 or less:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 4.
  
  


• If they're level 12 or more:
  
  
  • If you had to round up, the maximum they can have of their highest spell level is 2. Otherwise, it's 3.
  
  

Because of the limited number of spells known to Sorcerers, this pattern is only feasible with them. Bards, on the other hand, can know 7 more spells, and their pattern is a lot more sporadic.

share|improve this answer

edited 15 mins ago

answered 56 mins ago

Daniel Zastoupil

4,9271155

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited 15 mins ago

edited 15 mins ago

edited 15 mins ago

answered 56 mins ago

Daniel Zastoupil

4,9271155

answered 56 mins ago

Daniel Zastoupil

4,9271155

answered 56 mins ago

Daniel Zastoupil

4,9271155

4,9271155

add a comment | 

add a comment | 

 

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