What happens when you non-lethally attack with a vorpal weapon but roll a 20 on the die?

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This silly scenario just popped in my head, and I wanted to verify what would happen :



Let's say Bob the Redemption Paladin doesn't like to kill his foes (so he attacks non-lethally), but for some odd reason, he's attacking a beheadable foe with an attuned Vorpal weapon. He non-lethally attacks the foe, but rolls a 20 on the attack roll. What happens now ?



1) The Vorpal weapon's desire to chop heads off takes priority, and the poor bloke loses their head



2) The Paladin's will to spare his foe takes priority, and the foe still has a head after the strike



3) Other scenario






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    up vote
    2
    down vote

    favorite












    This silly scenario just popped in my head, and I wanted to verify what would happen :



    Let's say Bob the Redemption Paladin doesn't like to kill his foes (so he attacks non-lethally), but for some odd reason, he's attacking a beheadable foe with an attuned Vorpal weapon. He non-lethally attacks the foe, but rolls a 20 on the attack roll. What happens now ?



    1) The Vorpal weapon's desire to chop heads off takes priority, and the poor bloke loses their head



    2) The Paladin's will to spare his foe takes priority, and the foe still has a head after the strike



    3) Other scenario






    dnd-5e magic-items







    share|improve this question























      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite











      This silly scenario just popped in my head, and I wanted to verify what would happen :



      Let's say Bob the Redemption Paladin doesn't like to kill his foes (so he attacks non-lethally), but for some odd reason, he's attacking a beheadable foe with an attuned Vorpal weapon. He non-lethally attacks the foe, but rolls a 20 on the attack roll. What happens now ?



      1) The Vorpal weapon's desire to chop heads off takes priority, and the poor bloke loses their head



      2) The Paladin's will to spare his foe takes priority, and the foe still has a head after the strike



      3) Other scenario






      dnd-5e magic-items







      share|improve this question













      This silly scenario just popped in my head, and I wanted to verify what would happen :



      Let's say Bob the Redemption Paladin doesn't like to kill his foes (so he attacks non-lethally), but for some odd reason, he's attacking a beheadable foe with an attuned Vorpal weapon. He non-lethally attacks the foe, but rolls a 20 on the attack roll. What happens now ?



      1) The Vorpal weapon's desire to chop heads off takes priority, and the poor bloke loses their head



      2) The Paladin's will to spare his foe takes priority, and the foe still has a head after the strike



      3) Other scenario






      dnd-5e magic-items




      dnd-5e magic-items






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      share|improve this question











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      asked 24 mins ago









      Gael L

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      7,624227136




















          4 Answers
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          Chopped off



          PHB, pg. 198




          [...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




          So this is what happens:



          1. You attack, it is a natural 20.


          2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off.




            The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




          3. You deal the damage (only matters if it's a troll or similar monster).


          Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.






          share|improve this answer



























            up vote
            3
            down vote













            The vorpal weapon severs the head.



            You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




            Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




            However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




            When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




            As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.






            share|improve this answer



























              up vote
              2
              down vote













              The creature's head is cut off.



              The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




              When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




              It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.






              share|improve this answer



























                up vote
                2
                down vote













                The enemy is beheaded



                The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




                When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




                When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



                The rules for knocking a creature out say:




                When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




                The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



                The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



                If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.






                share|improve this answer






















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                  4 Answers
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                  active

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                  4 Answers
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                  up vote
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                  down vote













                  Chopped off



                  PHB, pg. 198




                  [...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




                  So this is what happens:



                  1. You attack, it is a natural 20.


                  2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off.




                    The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




                  3. You deal the damage (only matters if it's a troll or similar monster).


                  Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.






                  share|improve this answer
























                    up vote
                    3
                    down vote













                    Chopped off



                    PHB, pg. 198




                    [...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




                    So this is what happens:



                    1. You attack, it is a natural 20.


                    2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off.




                      The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




                    3. You deal the damage (only matters if it's a troll or similar monster).


                    Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.






                    share|improve this answer






















                      up vote
                      3
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      3
                      down vote









                      Chopped off



                      PHB, pg. 198




                      [...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




                      So this is what happens:



                      1. You attack, it is a natural 20.


                      2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off.




                        The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




                      3. You deal the damage (only matters if it's a troll or similar monster).


                      Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.






                      share|improve this answer












                      Chopped off



                      PHB, pg. 198




                      [...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




                      So this is what happens:



                      1. You attack, it is a natural 20.


                      2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off.




                        The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




                      3. You deal the damage (only matters if it's a troll or similar monster).


                      Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 11 mins ago









                      Vylix

                      7,40522597




                      7,40522597






















                          up vote
                          3
                          down vote













                          The vorpal weapon severs the head.



                          You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




                          Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




                          However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




                          When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




                          As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.






                          share|improve this answer
























                            up vote
                            3
                            down vote













                            The vorpal weapon severs the head.



                            You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




                            Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




                            However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




                            When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




                            As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.






                            share|improve this answer






















                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote









                              The vorpal weapon severs the head.



                              You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




                              Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




                              However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




                              When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




                              As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.






                              share|improve this answer












                              The vorpal weapon severs the head.



                              You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




                              Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




                              However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




                              When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




                              As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 11 mins ago









                              David Coffron

                              30.2k2104208




                              30.2k2104208




















                                  up vote
                                  2
                                  down vote













                                  The creature's head is cut off.



                                  The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




                                  When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




                                  It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.






                                  share|improve this answer
























                                    up vote
                                    2
                                    down vote













                                    The creature's head is cut off.



                                    The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




                                    When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




                                    It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.






                                    share|improve this answer






















                                      up vote
                                      2
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      2
                                      down vote









                                      The creature's head is cut off.



                                      The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




                                      When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




                                      It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.






                                      share|improve this answer












                                      The creature's head is cut off.



                                      The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




                                      When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




                                      It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 10 mins ago









                                      Bloodcinder

                                      17.3k257113




                                      17.3k257113




















                                          up vote
                                          2
                                          down vote













                                          The enemy is beheaded



                                          The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




                                          When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




                                          When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



                                          The rules for knocking a creature out say:




                                          When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




                                          The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



                                          The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



                                          If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.






                                          share|improve this answer


























                                            up vote
                                            2
                                            down vote













                                            The enemy is beheaded



                                            The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




                                            When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




                                            When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



                                            The rules for knocking a creature out say:




                                            When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




                                            The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



                                            The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



                                            If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.






                                            share|improve this answer
























                                              up vote
                                              2
                                              down vote










                                              up vote
                                              2
                                              down vote









                                              The enemy is beheaded



                                              The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




                                              When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




                                              When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



                                              The rules for knocking a creature out say:




                                              When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




                                              The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



                                              The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



                                              If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.






                                              share|improve this answer














                                              The enemy is beheaded



                                              The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




                                              When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




                                              When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



                                              The rules for knocking a creature out say:




                                              When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




                                              The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



                                              The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



                                              If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.







                                              share|improve this answer














                                              share|improve this answer



                                              share|improve this answer








                                              edited 5 mins ago

























                                              answered 10 mins ago









                                              Rubiksmoose

                                              41.1k5204312




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