Mixing
In “led themâ€, does 'them' include the leader himself?
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But the others wouldn't let Professor Quirrell keep Harry to himself. It took almost ten minutes to get away from them all. At last, Hagrid managed to make himself heard over the babble.
"Must get on -- lots ter buy. Come on, Harry."
Doris Crockford shook Harry's hand one last time, and Hagrid led them
through the bar and out into a small, walled courtyard, where there
was nothing but a trash can and a few weeds.
I think 'them' in this context only includes Hagrid and Harry because no others have been mentioned in later context, but I might be wrong. If this is the case, why didn't it put: "led him"(Harry) instead. Or is it idiomatic to include the leader himself in such contexts?
word-usage
asked 1 hour ago
dan
2,23511343
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
But the others wouldn't let Professor Quirrell keep Harry to himself. It took almost ten minutes to get away from them all. At last, Hagrid managed to make himself heard over the babble.
"Must get on -- lots ter buy. Come on, Harry."
Doris Crockford shook Harry's hand one last time, and Hagrid led them
through the bar and out into a small, walled courtyard, where there
was nothing but a trash can and a few weeds.
I think 'them' in this context only includes Hagrid and Harry because no others have been mentioned in later context, but I might be wrong. If this is the case, why didn't it put: "led him"(Harry) instead. Or is it idiomatic to include the leader himself in such contexts?
word-usage
asked 1 hour ago
dan
2,23511343
Unless something is explicitly stated, the referent of a pronoun can never be known with certainty (barring asking the composer of a sentence directly).
– Jason Bassford
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
But the others wouldn't let Professor Quirrell keep Harry to himself. It took almost ten minutes to get away from them all. At last, Hagrid managed to make himself heard over the babble.
"Must get on -- lots ter buy. Come on, Harry."
Doris Crockford shook Harry's hand one last time, and Hagrid led them
through the bar and out into a small, walled courtyard, where there
was nothing but a trash can and a few weeds.
I think 'them' in this context only includes Hagrid and Harry because no others have been mentioned in later context, but I might be wrong. If this is the case, why didn't it put: "led him"(Harry) instead. Or is it idiomatic to include the leader himself in such contexts?
word-usage
asked 1 hour ago
dan
2,23511343
But the others wouldn't let Professor Quirrell keep Harry to himself. It took almost ten minutes to get away from them all. At last, Hagrid managed to make himself heard over the babble.
"Must get on -- lots ter buy. Come on, Harry."
Doris Crockford shook Harry's hand one last time, and Hagrid led them
through the bar and out into a small, walled courtyard, where there
was nothing but a trash can and a few weeds.
I think 'them' in this context only includes Hagrid and Harry because no others have been mentioned in later context, but I might be wrong. If this is the case, why didn't it put: "led him"(Harry) instead. Or is it idiomatic to include the leader himself in such contexts?
word-usage
word-usage
asked 1 hour ago
dan
2,23511343
asked 1 hour ago
dan
2,23511343
edited 1 hour ago
asked 1 hour ago
dan
2,23511343
asked 1 hour ago
dan
2,23511343
asked 1 hour ago
dan
2,23511343
2,23511343
Unless something is explicitly stated, the referent of a pronoun can never be known with certainty (barring asking the composer of a sentence directly).
– Jason Bassford
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
Unless something is explicitly stated, the referent of a pronoun can never be known with certainty (barring asking the composer of a sentence directly).
– Jason Bassford
1 hour ago
Unless something is explicitly stated, the referent of a pronoun can never be known with certainty (barring asking the composer of a sentence directly).
– Jason Bassford
1 hour ago
Unless something is explicitly stated, the referent of a pronoun can never be known with certainty (barring asking the composer of a sentence directly).
– Jason Bassford
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
I do not know the context, but "A led B" does not normally mean that A led himself. So, it may be that Hagrid is leading Harry and one or more others. Alternatively, it may be that the author meant to say something "Hagrid took the lead through the bar and out into ..." The idiom of "take the lead" certainly assumes that the leader was on the trip.
answered 1 hour ago
Jeff Morrow
7,873822
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
1
As I said, the phrase "take the lead" certainly includes the leader. But, in its literal meaing, one person leads, and one or more others follow. However, as other answers have explained, the leader is certainly on the journey, and that can result in locutions like "where are you leading us," because the leader and followers are going together to the same destination. Nevertheless, if it was merely two people, one leader and one follower, it would certainly be clearer to say "led him."
– Jeff Morrow
46 mins ago
thanks! that's also what i thought orriginally.
– dan
26 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
In this case, "them" does refer to both Hagrid and Harry. "Lead" does not necessarily exclude the leader, as it can refer to a general course of action:
lead (v): 1.1 [with object and adverbial of direction] Show (someone or something) the way to a destination by going in front of or beside them.
For example, in the context of this story it would have been perfectly natural to have written:
As they negotiated the dark and twisty turns of Diagon Alley, Harry stepped close to Hagrid and whispered, "Where are you leading us, Hagrid?"
answered 1 hour ago
Andrew
57.7k565126
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
In your example
them
means both Harry and Hagrid, the sentence has an implicit both
led them (both) through the bar
in the same way
The fire he made, kept them (both) warm.
which includes the person who made the fire.
answered 1 hour ago
Peter
59.5k250105
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
@dan Thanks, I've edited my answer.
– Peter
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
I do not know the context, but "A led B" does not normally mean that A led himself. So, it may be that Hagrid is leading Harry and one or more others. Alternatively, it may be that the author meant to say something "Hagrid took the lead through the bar and out into ..." The idiom of "take the lead" certainly assumes that the leader was on the trip.
answered 1 hour ago
Jeff Morrow
7,873822
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
1
As I said, the phrase "take the lead" certainly includes the leader. But, in its literal meaing, one person leads, and one or more others follow. However, as other answers have explained, the leader is certainly on the journey, and that can result in locutions like "where are you leading us," because the leader and followers are going together to the same destination. Nevertheless, if it was merely two people, one leader and one follower, it would certainly be clearer to say "led him."
– Jeff Morrow
46 mins ago
thanks! that's also what i thought orriginally.
– dan
26 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I do not know the context, but "A led B" does not normally mean that A led himself. So, it may be that Hagrid is leading Harry and one or more others. Alternatively, it may be that the author meant to say something "Hagrid took the lead through the bar and out into ..." The idiom of "take the lead" certainly assumes that the leader was on the trip.
answered 1 hour ago
Jeff Morrow
7,873822
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
1
As I said, the phrase "take the lead" certainly includes the leader. But, in its literal meaing, one person leads, and one or more others follow. However, as other answers have explained, the leader is certainly on the journey, and that can result in locutions like "where are you leading us," because the leader and followers are going together to the same destination. Nevertheless, if it was merely two people, one leader and one follower, it would certainly be clearer to say "led him."
– Jeff Morrow
46 mins ago
thanks! that's also what i thought orriginally.
– dan
26 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
I do not know the context, but "A led B" does not normally mean that A led himself. So, it may be that Hagrid is leading Harry and one or more others. Alternatively, it may be that the author meant to say something "Hagrid took the lead through the bar and out into ..." The idiom of "take the lead" certainly assumes that the leader was on the trip.
answered 1 hour ago
Jeff Morrow
7,873822
I do not know the context, but "A led B" does not normally mean that A led himself. So, it may be that Hagrid is leading Harry and one or more others. Alternatively, it may be that the author meant to say something "Hagrid took the lead through the bar and out into ..." The idiom of "take the lead" certainly assumes that the leader was on the trip.
answered 1 hour ago
Jeff Morrow
7,873822
answered 1 hour ago
Jeff Morrow
7,873822
answered 1 hour ago
Jeff Morrow
7,873822
answered 1 hour ago
Jeff Morrow
7,873822
7,873822
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
1
As I said, the phrase "take the lead" certainly includes the leader. But, in its literal meaing, one person leads, and one or more others follow. However, as other answers have explained, the leader is certainly on the journey, and that can result in locutions like "where are you leading us," because the leader and followers are going together to the same destination. Nevertheless, if it was merely two people, one leader and one follower, it would certainly be clearer to say "led him."
– Jeff Morrow
46 mins ago
thanks! that's also what i thought orriginally.
– dan
26 mins ago
add a comment |Â
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
1
As I said, the phrase "take the lead" certainly includes the leader. But, in its literal meaing, one person leads, and one or more others follow. However, as other answers have explained, the leader is certainly on the journey, and that can result in locutions like "where are you leading us," because the leader and followers are going together to the same destination. Nevertheless, if it was merely two people, one leader and one follower, it would certainly be clearer to say "led him."
– Jeff Morrow
46 mins ago
thanks! that's also what i thought orriginally.
– dan
26 mins ago
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
1
1
As I said, the phrase "take the lead" certainly includes the leader. But, in its literal meaing, one person leads, and one or more others follow. However, as other answers have explained, the leader is certainly on the journey, and that can result in locutions like "where are you leading us," because the leader and followers are going together to the same destination. Nevertheless, if it was merely two people, one leader and one follower, it would certainly be clearer to say "led him."
– Jeff Morrow
46 mins ago
As I said, the phrase "take the lead" certainly includes the leader. But, in its literal meaing, one person leads, and one or more others follow. However, as other answers have explained, the leader is certainly on the journey, and that can result in locutions like "where are you leading us," because the leader and followers are going together to the same destination. Nevertheless, if it was merely two people, one leader and one follower, it would certainly be clearer to say "led him."
– Jeff Morrow
46 mins ago
thanks! that's also what i thought orriginally.
– dan
26 mins ago
thanks! that's also what i thought orriginally.
– dan
26 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
In this case, "them" does refer to both Hagrid and Harry. "Lead" does not necessarily exclude the leader, as it can refer to a general course of action:
lead (v): 1.1 [with object and adverbial of direction] Show (someone or something) the way to a destination by going in front of or beside them.
For example, in the context of this story it would have been perfectly natural to have written:
As they negotiated the dark and twisty turns of Diagon Alley, Harry stepped close to Hagrid and whispered, "Where are you leading us, Hagrid?"
answered 1 hour ago
Andrew
57.7k565126
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
In this case, "them" does refer to both Hagrid and Harry. "Lead" does not necessarily exclude the leader, as it can refer to a general course of action:
lead (v): 1.1 [with object and adverbial of direction] Show (someone or something) the way to a destination by going in front of or beside them.
For example, in the context of this story it would have been perfectly natural to have written:
As they negotiated the dark and twisty turns of Diagon Alley, Harry stepped close to Hagrid and whispered, "Where are you leading us, Hagrid?"
answered 1 hour ago
Andrew
57.7k565126
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
In this case, "them" does refer to both Hagrid and Harry. "Lead" does not necessarily exclude the leader, as it can refer to a general course of action:
lead (v): 1.1 [with object and adverbial of direction] Show (someone or something) the way to a destination by going in front of or beside them.
For example, in the context of this story it would have been perfectly natural to have written:
As they negotiated the dark and twisty turns of Diagon Alley, Harry stepped close to Hagrid and whispered, "Where are you leading us, Hagrid?"
answered 1 hour ago
Andrew
57.7k565126
In this case, "them" does refer to both Hagrid and Harry. "Lead" does not necessarily exclude the leader, as it can refer to a general course of action:
lead (v): 1.1 [with object and adverbial of direction] Show (someone or something) the way to a destination by going in front of or beside them.
For example, in the context of this story it would have been perfectly natural to have written:
As they negotiated the dark and twisty turns of Diagon Alley, Harry stepped close to Hagrid and whispered, "Where are you leading us, Hagrid?"
answered 1 hour ago
Andrew
57.7k565126
answered 1 hour ago
Andrew
57.7k565126
answered 1 hour ago
Andrew
57.7k565126
answered 1 hour ago
Andrew
57.7k565126
57.7k565126
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
In your example
them
means both Harry and Hagrid, the sentence has an implicit both
led them (both) through the bar
in the same way
The fire he made, kept them (both) warm.
which includes the person who made the fire.
answered 1 hour ago
Peter
59.5k250105
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
@dan Thanks, I've edited my answer.
– Peter
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
In your example
them
means both Harry and Hagrid, the sentence has an implicit both
led them (both) through the bar
in the same way
The fire he made, kept them (both) warm.
which includes the person who made the fire.
answered 1 hour ago
Peter
59.5k250105
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
@dan Thanks, I've edited my answer.
– Peter
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
In your example
them
means both Harry and Hagrid, the sentence has an implicit both
led them (both) through the bar
in the same way
The fire he made, kept them (both) warm.
which includes the person who made the fire.
answered 1 hour ago
Peter
59.5k250105
In your example
them
means both Harry and Hagrid, the sentence has an implicit both
led them (both) through the bar
in the same way
The fire he made, kept them (both) warm.
which includes the person who made the fire.
answered 1 hour ago
Peter
59.5k250105
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
Peter
59.5k250105
answered 1 hour ago
Peter
59.5k250105
answered 1 hour ago
Peter
59.5k250105
59.5k250105
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
@dan Thanks, I've edited my answer.
– Peter
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
@dan Thanks, I've edited my answer.
– Peter
1 hour ago
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
but more later context seemingly only involved two persons, Hagrid and Harry. no others had been mentioned at all.
– dan
1 hour ago
@dan Thanks, I've edited my answer.
– Peter
1 hour ago
@dan Thanks, I've edited my answer.
– Peter
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
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Unless something is explicitly stated, the referent of a pronoun can never be known with certainty (barring asking the composer of a sentence directly).
– Jason Bassford
1 hour ago