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Question

TL;DR

When my mom bakes a cake for us (whoever is at home but it's usually me, my little sister, my father and her), she uses eggs (which are not vegan), even if I will be there. How can I tell her that I find it hurtful to completely ignore the fact that I'm vegan, and thus can't eat the dessert?

Background

I'm 23, I have been vegan for 2 years, I live in my parents' house (well, not the past 6 months but I'm moving in again). I often cook the meal or part of it.

My mom hates cooking (I hate it too). She also doesn't like that I'm vegan and would probably wish for me to "convert back".

For the meal, there isn't a "main dish", there is just vegetables and starchy cook separately from the meat to make the meal vegan for me.

If she cooks something that needs milk/butter, she uses vegan alternatives but, if she needs eggs, she won't use the vegan alternative.

What I have tried

When I see that she is about to prepare a (non-vegan) cake, I ask her, why not use some maize starch(or some compote, depending) instead but she always told me "that's not how I learned to cook" or some similar excuse.

Sometimes, she will also say: if you aren't happy, you can cook. But the problem is, I do cook sometimes (just not cake) and I don't want to always have to do the cooking just because I'm the only vegan at home. Even though I know what to use as an alternative and would be able to tell her.

I didn't tell her (yet) that I found her hurtful because I wanted to avoid this (probably) difficult conversation.

Question

How can I communicate to my mother that I find it hurtful when she cooks for everyone but me?

Notes and clarifications

My mother does cook vegan stuff sometimes but only if she only needs to switch cow milk with rice milk. If it involves eggs, she won't switch ingredients.

When there are multiple things to eat, I don't really mind not eating something but when there is only one dessert, I do mind. Especially since this happens on a regular base (~ once per week).

Please, don't tell me that I'm selfish. I just want to be able to enjoy a vegan cake the same way they enjoy the vegan meals that I make.

No, I can't go out and buy a vegan cake, they're not readily available where I live.

A lot of answers suggest to teach her to cook vegan. This might work, but it might also not work: last time I tried, she just let me do the waffles on my own. So, I would be grateful for other solutions that do not involve cooking.

If the dessert is vegan, everyone will happily eat it.

My mother usually cooks 2/4 of time, me 1/4 and my father 1/4. At least that's how I see things but everyone on the house probably has a different opinion on the matter.

The cake is usually for the four of us (well, three of them since I can't eat it). If it's for guests, I mind less not being able to eat it (because it's not really for me, because I usually know in advance and because I can prepare/buy myself something else if needed).

Some people seem to think that I'm vegan for health reason, I'm really, really not. And the last time I tried to eat a not vegan cake, I didn't enjoy it because I felt guilty.

Follow up

I have asked my mother to tell me every time she wants to use eggs in a recipe (so that I can jump in and use something else instead).

I also printed and pinned on the fridge a summary table of what to use instead of eggs.

Finally, today, when my mother told me she wanted to make a pie using eggs, I jumped in and used Maizena instead (will she was cooking some other stuff). We didn't cook together but she mostly saw what I did and I hope that, if I do it often enough, she will start doing it by herself.

(but answers to help bring that issue with her are still very welcome if all this doesn't work)

Notes and clarification:

I would rather have the answer to "How to communicate to my mother that I find it hurtful when..." but people keep giving me answers to "how to have her cook vegan" so I used their solution in the hope that I won't need to "communicate that I find it hurtful when..."

Please donÃ¢Â€Â™t write answers in comments. It bypasses our quality measures by not having voting (both up and down) available on comments, as well as having other problems detailed on meta. Comments are for clarifying and improving the question; please donÃ¢Â€Â™t use them for other purposes. — 2 days ago
You assume that your mother cooks for you four, but you can't eat it. Does your mother thinks, she cooks for all the family or her position is more like "i cook, what i like. I'm fine with everybody eating, what i cooked"? — yesterday
@fixerlt She does cook what she likes but she always takes care of doing enough for everyone so, ... — yesterday

score 111 · Accepted Answer · 2018-10-03 17:07:04Z

Originally commented on a different answer, but I want to flesh this out into a full response -

Unlike other answers, I don't believe your primary choice is to just accept this as what it is and move on. However, I don't think that a monologue about how she's making you feel is going to make her more likely to accommodate you. If anything, approaching people with "I feel slighted by your behavior" usually makes people less likely to work with you. That's why, in the following paragraphs, I'm going to explain a more subtle way to express to your mother that you want to change the current norm, without making her feel under attack (which will increase your odds of success).

The key thing to remember here is that you chose to be vegan and take on all responsibilities that come with it: giving up certain foods, buying special (sometimes expensive) substitute ingredients, learning how to cook with these substitutes, etc. Unsurprisingly, your mom had no say in the matter. For someone who doesn't like to cook, the fact that she does make some vegan meals for you (aside from cake) is an important indicator that she is trying to accommodate for you.

Instead of pitting the cake issue as you vs your mom, view it as a moment where you need to be a teacher. You've said that your mom doesn't like to cook. As someone else who doesn't like to cook, I'm going to run on an assumption based on how I'd feel about learning to cook a common recipe with new, unfamiliar ingredients: Stressed. Learning how to do something you already don't enjoy in a different way can be overwhelming. This is your moment to teach that it isn't as big of a stress as it needs to be.

Invite yourself to cook a vegan cake with your mom. I'd recommend approaching it by saying:

"I've been upset that I haven't been able to eat any of the cake, but I understand that learning to cook specifically for my diet can feel like a big task. Would I be able to cook the next cake with you, and I can show you that it's actually pretty easy to substitute eggs for _____?"

What's important about your approach, which you'll see above, is that you come at your mom from an understanding angle while still expressing that you've been impacted by being left out from the eating of dessert. This is as far as I recommend going into your feelings with your mother. Once you've made this gesture of acknowledgement about her feelings, it'll increase the likelihood that she'll listen to you and accept your offer to show her how to make a vegan cake, because you're coming from an area of compromise and mutual acknowledgement. Remain prepared that you may still need to compromise, the cake may still not always be vegan (maybe others still want the egg-y cake sometimes or it's just more convenient for your mom)... but this will be a start to reducing the amount of stress she feels by accommodating for a diet she did not choose and isn't used to.

If she declines your offer, I'd take the opportunity to ask her why she doesn't want to learn. Express that you feel really left out and miss being able to enjoy her cake, and that you'd like to know why she won't compromise with you. Unfortunately if there's nothing you can do to help console her reasons, at this point you may just have to accept that she is unwilling to budge about learning this new cooking skillset.

All parties involved in this situation feel what they feel - selfish, rude, or otherwise. The best way to bridge this problem is with understanding and attempting to find a compromise, with emphasis and focus on OP and their mother, as asked in the question. Let's focus on positive suggestions and bridging the gap instead of criticizing OP's feelings.

Comments deleted. Please remember that comments are for requesting clarification or suggesting improvements, not arguing with the answer (or OP). Please see this meta post for more information. — Sep 27 at 13:36
I think you've got your quote backward, shouldn't it say "easy to substitute __ for eggs"? — 2 days ago

ArtificialSoul 1,538238 · Answer 2 · 2018-09-27 11:28:17Z

This is not the answer you are looking for, but

You are asking for something extra

I think it is perfectly fine to be vegan. But if there is a bunch of people to be cooked for demanding a change of meals because of the wishes of one is selfish.

Unless your mom cooks several meals/desserts and None of them are suitable for you, then she is being rude. But if she cooks one thing for everyone and you are the only one not eating it, you are demanding to get an extra serving or have everyone else not get what they want.

That is being rude. You are demanding your mother, who has never cooked vegan in her life, to cater specifically to you in a group setting.

If the situation is that you are just 3 people and your mom constantly cooks things incompatible with your diet then she is actually being rude.

Cook together

In that case you should ask her why she refuses to cook vegan. Ask her if she wants you to show her how to cook vegan, since it is not how she learned it. Cook something together.

Maybe look for a recipe online that looks nice and is vegan and have a nice evening cooking together.

Comments deleted. Please remember that comments are for requesting clarification or suggesting improvements, not arguing with the answer (or OP). To posters - if you have important information to add, please edit it into the appropriate post. — Sep 27 at 13:13
As much as this may be an excellent alternative for the question 'How do I get vegan cake at dinner', Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. I don't really see your question answering that, how would you propose Noon should go about this conversation? For more information, please see our meta on how to write a good answer, specifically points 1 and 2 (which links to a meta on answering the actual question asked). — 8 hours ago
@Tinkeringbell > Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. Maybe what he's asking to do is not what he should do. — 6 hours ago
@Hejazzman that doesn't explain why this answer is answering 'How to get vegan cake at dinner' instead of 'how to communicate I find this hurtful'. We're not here to tell people what they should do, that even has an official close reason. All we can then do is write an answer from experience, stating how communicating this is hurtful could be done and how it turned out really badly for the answerer and that's why they're recommending against it (or at least recommending not doing it that way). IPS isn't here to argue who's right or wrong, but help people with their Interpersonal Skills — 6 hours ago
@Tinkeringbell I believe this is something of a frame challenge to the original question. The best answer, at least in a practical sense, to "How do I do X" is sometimes "Doing X is unwise. Do Y instead." This answer explains why explaining that it is hurtful may be unwise or unproductive, but the alternative of offering to do it together or taking over the chore personally might resolve the underlying issue more fully. — 1 hour ago

score 121 · Answer 3 · 2018-09-27 13:30:20Z

Probably not want you want to hear but I think you should:

Not mention anything and just live with it

Being vegan and wanting people to respect that choice is one thing. Asking everyone else to eat vegan food because you are vegan is a very different thing.

You can't expect other people to change their lifestyle and their habits because you decided to. If you demand other people to cater to your needs it starts looking like going vegan wasn't something you did for yourself but something you did to get special treatment and attention. This isn't the message you want to send if you want your mother to ever fully accept your choice.

As to the issue of actually enjoying a cake that you didn't cook yourself. It really depends where you live but in my town there are a lot of vegan bakeries that offer wide variety of vegan deserts, maybe you can take your family there or buy something for them and see how they like it. If they really enjoy it then you can get the recipe and teach it to your mom. I don't believe she is putting eggs in her cakes just to spite you. If it was my mom I wouldn't put it past her to be doing it on purpose to tempt me back into being vegetarian but I can't judge for yours, you know her better.

EDIT: I want to reply to the your mom being hurtful comment but it turned out longer than I expected.

You are feeling hurt because you feel your needs are ignored and that it somewhat normal but you are also 23 and you shouldn't expect other people to take care of you. If your mom is anything, inconsiderate is as far as it goes. You don't have the right to blame her for not catering to your choices, you can only ask her to respect them as you should respect her choice to enjoy eggs in the cakes that she makes.

Is it nice? No it isn't, nobody is claiming it is. Is it something that you should be hurt from? No it isn't, it is just other people having different believes as to what kind of food is alright to be consumed. You say that she enjoys vegan cake just fine, but you enjoyed non vegan cake just fine until a few years ago. Does that mean you should stop being vegan? Of course not! You should be what you want to be, but don't ask other people to change because you did.

As much as this may be an excellent alternative for the question 'How do I get vegan cake at dinner', Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. I don't really see your question answering that, how would you propose Noon should go about this conversation? For more information, please see our meta on how to write a good answer, specifically points 1 and 2 (which links to a meta on answering the actual question asked). — 8 hours ago
@Tinkeringbell well the question asked is "How can I communicate to my mother that I find it hurtful when she cooks for everyone but me?". I don't believe this should be done as I don't believe her mother is acting in a hurtful way. It is quite tricky as my suggestion looks for intrapersonal solution to the issue. I see that a lot of people agree with my view. There are quite a few answers that give more direct advise on the communication issue. I don't believe having an alternative viewpoint is bad for the OP or other people visiting the site — 8 hours ago
that's something that belongs on meta, but general policy here has always been that this is a site for questions and answers about interpersonal skills, not intrapersonal. Hence why I linked you to a meta post mentioning 'should we hold answers to just the question asked' (to which the answer is 'yes, please'.) If you'd like to discuss this further though, please find me in Interpersonal Skills Chat (feel free to create a room for the purpose if you'd like), or take the discussion of this specific answer directly to meta where the community can give feedback and we can use it as future reference. — 8 hours ago
I think this just misses the mark of a frame challenge. OP has made it clear that, rather than change their mom's behavior, their goal is to let their mom know it's hurtful. You've said "I don't believe this should be done as I don't believe her mother is acting in a hurtful way," but, if OP is hurt, then by definition the mom is being hurtful. Even if it's not reasonable to be hurt, it's perfectly reasonable to want to tell someone you're hurt. OP's "frame" is that they want to communicate that they're being hurt by their mom, and I don't think your answer challenges that. — 5 hours ago

HELEN GOUSSAROVA 61512 · Answer 4 · 2018-09-28 16:16:17Z

I am a mother of a daughter who is vegan. She is 18, and lives with us.

I am torn on the subject of cakes. I find it impossible to substitute eggs in a meaningful way. One has to cook completely different types of desserts, ones that do not rely on eggs to keep shape.

My suggestion is this - there are desserts that are vegan, easy to make, and tasty - find them, make them along side with your mother, and have two types of dessert on the table.
For instance, you can make wonderful muffins from mixes, and use oil instead of eggs.

Share your creations with everyone else, be cheerful and proactive. People will like it, and you will not feel excluded.

As much as this may be an excellent alternative for the question 'How do I get vegan cake at dinner', Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. I don't really see your question answering that, how would you propose Noon should go about this conversation? For more information, please see our meta on how to write a good answer, specifically points 1 and 2 (which links to a meta on answering the actual question asked). — 8 hours ago

Em Câ™¦ 8,68723568 · Answer 5 · 2018-09-28 17:11:56Z

From personal experience, meet her halfway. Real world example... I became veggie few years ago and at Christmas my mum makes a roast dinner with potatoes done in fat etc., and a roast. She is happy to buy shop veggie sausages and do the veg.

So last year I made a Nut Roast and did a second lot of potatoes for my girlfriend and myself. I made loads so there was more than my girlfriend and I could eat, so my aunties and uncles had some. They all loved the nut roast and quite liked my potatoes and everyone raved about it.

This year my mum has asked me how I made my nut roast and potatoes as she would like to try it herself.

Good food speaks for itself... convince her with your skills :)

Generally this is good advice, to make and bring your own substitutes. In this specific example the mother bakes with non-vegan alternatives (eggs) and refuse to switch. How would you communicate her wishes to be included in her mothers baking? — Sep 28 at 14:04
@JCJ i would offer to make that meal myself with the egg alternatives, do my best to make it taste good. My gf very rarely makes normal cakes as she has better luck and taste with vegan ones and so sticks to that. You cant change everyones mind, but its worth a shot i think — 2 days ago
As much as this may be an excellent alternative for the question 'How do I get vegan cake at dinner', Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. I don't really see your question answering that, how would you propose Noon should go about this conversation? For more information, please see our meta on how to write a good answer, specifically points 1 and 2 (which links to a meta on answering the actual question asked). — 8 hours ago

Em Câ™¦ 8,68723568 · Answer 6 · 2018-10-03 00:46:10Z

I'm not sure if I read that correctly, but I get the feeling this is also a lot about getting a cake baked by your mother - for you. As you say you find it hurtful when she bakes a non-vegan cake.

So, why not communicate THIS to your mother? Say something like:

I have so many happy memories involving cake you did bake for us.
Nowadays, with my being vegan, I can't anymore enjoy a cake my mother
baked. I feel so left out seeing you all eat this cake, and not being
able to participate. I know I chose my vegan lifestyle and so am
responsible for it. But eating a cake you baked is not only about a
tasty dessert, but a symbol for the love and the unity as a family. If
I get you a recipe and the ingredients for a vegan cake, and showed
you how to bake it that time, would you bake one for me the next time?
I just want to feel that feeling of having a cake my mummy made for
me...

By pointing out the symbolism of said cake and its significance to you, it wouldn't be about accommodating your "extravagant" lifestyle, but about a labour of love.

It's a simple technique derived from Marshall Rosenberg's violence-free communication.

I found that any time I used it, explaining my feelings and therefore the reason behind my plea, people are more declined to comply with my plea. Granted, I take this approach mostly with my family. The examples are varying... talking to my daughter about the necessity of wearing a helmet while riding her bike: I want her to be protected the best way, because I love her - instead of just ordering her to do it.. Asking my husband to wake me from napping with a hot tea: because it feels like being cared for and loved.

Of course there's a difference with my daughter STILL not wearing a helmet or my husband not making tea - the first gets a sterner talking and asking for her reasoning, the latter just gets a sigh and an "okay" - I may be disappointed, but there's no point into forcing somebody into a labour of love, is there? ;)

score 11 · Answer 7 · 2018-10-02 12:55:42Z

TL;DR

Time your communication better.

Based on your story, I believe the biggest stumbling block is the timing of your communication.

You say:

When I see that she is about to prepare a (non-vegan) cake, I ask her, why not use some Maizena (or some compote, depending) instead but she always told me "that's not how I learned to cook" or some similar excuse.

"why not use some Maizena" is specifically provoking a defensive response because the simple answer is "I am not familiar with it, why are you pushing this in my face right now?"

Trying to change the way that someone does something in the middle of execution is downright the most ineffective way of getting a person to change what they are doing. It provokes a sense of defensiveness because you are asking them to change in the middle of auto-pilot.

In your case, it is specific to cooking but it's true in countless aspects. Consider the following scenarios:

To a student: hey I see you're studying biology tonight from textbook xyz, may I suggest textbook abc instead? It's better you know.

To a carpenter: hey I see you're about to install the standard oak handrail, would you mind using this exotic wood instead?

To a mechanic: Hey I see you're about to change my oil, can you rotate my tires first?

Do you see what I am getting at? You need to have a damn good reason for interrupting execution. Damn good reasons are usually limited to safety (hey, don't use peanuts or else 2 people will be hospitalized) and money (I know you were gonna install oak but I will pay for the labor and expenses for the exotic wood so make it happen, thanks.)

I see you have tried this multiple times but your results have been absolutely futile because she resorts to being defensive due to bad timing on your part.

However, based on her cooking vegan stuff sometimes does make it clear that she is trying and being receptive to your needs so that is good news.

My suggestion is to wait until a neutral time (2PM on a Sunday maybe?) when you can bring up your dietary wants. Additionally, now would be a good time to apologize that you've been trying to interject your veganism in the middle of meal-prep. State how much you appreciate the vegan dishes that she does make. Do not place blame for her wanting to cook in a way which is familiar. YOU need to meet half way and offer to always keep egg substitutes stocked and provide some sort of ratio chart of one egg to whatever substitute. YOU should take this time to preemptively offer to cook dessert for a week straight.

Since this conversation will be held during a neutral time, you may even request your mother to take some time on non-busy day and teach you what she knows and you can collaborate and chime in with the substitutes that you know. This way you will both learn in a safe setting.

Being vegan is YOUR want in life so you absolutely cannot expect people to bend over backwards for you. However, people are usually willing to accommodate with enough notice so always be grateful anytime anyone steps out of their comfort zone.

Think about all of the things you had to learn and internalize when you made the choice to be vegan. Asking someone else to do the same in the middle of meal-prep is quite an egregious request.

Thank you for your answer. I believe you are right in saying that my timing is off and I'm definitely using the ratio chart from now on :) — 2 days ago
@Noon You're welcome, I've seen your question hovering around the Hot Network Questions for a few days now but after seeing the answer you did accept it made me question what your real goal is so I'm glad you clarified it. — 2 days ago
I must admit that I accepted the nicest answer because I was sick of people upvoting the answer telling that I was selfish (I haven't decided yet if I will change the accepted answer, I'm probably gonna wait a little more before taking a decision). — 2 days ago
@Noon No worries. You're only obligation is to accept the answer which helped you most; this is not a popularity contest :-) — 2 days ago
This is one of the few answers here that actually focuses on communicating about the veganism with the mother, but it seems heavily focused on 'getting mom to bake vegan cake' instead of the actual question, which is 'how to communicate to mom that I find this hurtful'. Would you say the same advice is applicable in both situations? Could you perhaps then edit your answer to make it more clear in one way or another that this will communicate to the mother that Noon feels hurt? — 8 hours ago

Ruadhan2300 76919 · Answer 8 · 2018-09-28 12:05:26Z

I think it has been covered fairly well in Artificial Soul's answer, but I'd like to expand a bit.

Your problem is at least partly that she's not familiar with baking vegan cakes.

As I'm sure you know, cakes are hard, they usually rely on a lot of non-vegan ingredients and they can be difficult to get right at the best of times. (this is admittedly my opinion, I struggle with preventing my cakes from collapsing!) I absolutely wouldn't blame anyone for sticking with what they know, especially if they're not planning it far in advance and prepared to experiment at the time.
Then there's acquiring speciality ingredients to replace eggs and dairy too. It's a lot of hassle if you're not already stocked for it.

You need her to be comfortable with the idea and processes of baking a vegan cake before she'll incorporate it into her own plans, she indicated as much when she said "that's not how I learned to cook".

So your approach to solving this issue is simple. Bake with her when it's not going to be part of a larger meal. Do it as a bonding experience.

Either frame it as such from get-go, or start baking a cake and invite her to help out.

Do this a few times and hopefully your mother will be happy to do it herself later.

The second part of the problem is that she doesn't want to bake a vegan cake.

You've said that she doesn't like your choice and this reticence about it may be a subtle tactic to encourage you to drop the diet. (note that she may not actually be aware if she's doing it for this reason either! Reluctance to encourage you is not the same as Conspiracy to stop you)

You are unlikely to be able to argue her off this viewpoint, the best you can do is stick with it, be happy and healthy and allow her to come to her own conclusions.

Again, bonding exercises where you bake vegan cakes and food together may help her become more comfortable with your choices.

Ultimately though, we chose this path, and for all our good intentions it can be very inconvenient and unfamiliar to the people in our lives. She's putting in a good effort already in spite of being unhappy with your decision, that's worth a lot of goodwill I think.

Don't get pushy about it if she's not willing to bring Maximum Effort just for you.

That'd just be ungrateful.

As much as this may be an excellent alternative for the question 'How do I get vegan cake at dinner', Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. I don't really see your question answering that, how would you propose Noon should go about this conversation? For more information, please see our meta on how to write a good answer, specifically points 1 and 2 (which links to a meta on answering the actual question asked). — 8 hours ago

Carl Witthoft 28816 · Answer 9 · 2018-10-03 19:27:14Z

I don't know why people are dancing around the root cause:

You moved back into a house which is not yours. It's your mother's, and she has no reason to support veganism any more than she would need to support religious sacrifice of chickens.

If you want vegan cake, make it yourself. In the meantime, be thankful your mother is willing to have you as a tenant at all.

score 111 · Accepted Answer · 2018-10-03 17:07:04Z

Originally commented on a different answer, but I want to flesh this out into a full response -

Unlike other answers, I don't believe your primary choice is to just accept this as what it is and move on. However, I don't think that a monologue about how she's making you feel is going to make her more likely to accommodate you. If anything, approaching people with "I feel slighted by your behavior" usually makes people less likely to work with you. That's why, in the following paragraphs, I'm going to explain a more subtle way to express to your mother that you want to change the current norm, without making her feel under attack (which will increase your odds of success).

The key thing to remember here is that you chose to be vegan and take on all responsibilities that come with it: giving up certain foods, buying special (sometimes expensive) substitute ingredients, learning how to cook with these substitutes, etc. Unsurprisingly, your mom had no say in the matter. For someone who doesn't like to cook, the fact that she does make some vegan meals for you (aside from cake) is an important indicator that she is trying to accommodate for you.

Instead of pitting the cake issue as you vs your mom, view it as a moment where you need to be a teacher. You've said that your mom doesn't like to cook. As someone else who doesn't like to cook, I'm going to run on an assumption based on how I'd feel about learning to cook a common recipe with new, unfamiliar ingredients: Stressed. Learning how to do something you already don't enjoy in a different way can be overwhelming. This is your moment to teach that it isn't as big of a stress as it needs to be.

Invite yourself to cook a vegan cake with your mom. I'd recommend approaching it by saying:

"I've been upset that I haven't been able to eat any of the cake, but I understand that learning to cook specifically for my diet can feel like a big task. Would I be able to cook the next cake with you, and I can show you that it's actually pretty easy to substitute eggs for _____?"

What's important about your approach, which you'll see above, is that you come at your mom from an understanding angle while still expressing that you've been impacted by being left out from the eating of dessert. This is as far as I recommend going into your feelings with your mother. Once you've made this gesture of acknowledgement about her feelings, it'll increase the likelihood that she'll listen to you and accept your offer to show her how to make a vegan cake, because you're coming from an area of compromise and mutual acknowledgement. Remain prepared that you may still need to compromise, the cake may still not always be vegan (maybe others still want the egg-y cake sometimes or it's just more convenient for your mom)... but this will be a start to reducing the amount of stress she feels by accommodating for a diet she did not choose and isn't used to.

If she declines your offer, I'd take the opportunity to ask her why she doesn't want to learn. Express that you feel really left out and miss being able to enjoy her cake, and that you'd like to know why she won't compromise with you. Unfortunately if there's nothing you can do to help console her reasons, at this point you may just have to accept that she is unwilling to budge about learning this new cooking skillset.

All parties involved in this situation feel what they feel - selfish, rude, or otherwise. The best way to bridge this problem is with understanding and attempting to find a compromise, with emphasis and focus on OP and their mother, as asked in the question. Let's focus on positive suggestions and bridging the gap instead of criticizing OP's feelings.

Comments deleted. Please remember that comments are for requesting clarification or suggesting improvements, not arguing with the answer (or OP). Please see this meta post for more information. — Sep 27 at 13:36
I think you've got your quote backward, shouldn't it say "easy to substitute __ for eggs"? — 2 days ago

ArtificialSoul 1,538238 · Answer 11 · 2018-09-27 11:28:17Z

This is not the answer you are looking for, but

You are asking for something extra

I think it is perfectly fine to be vegan. But if there is a bunch of people to be cooked for demanding a change of meals because of the wishes of one is selfish.

Unless your mom cooks several meals/desserts and None of them are suitable for you, then she is being rude. But if she cooks one thing for everyone and you are the only one not eating it, you are demanding to get an extra serving or have everyone else not get what they want.

That is being rude. You are demanding your mother, who has never cooked vegan in her life, to cater specifically to you in a group setting.

If the situation is that you are just 3 people and your mom constantly cooks things incompatible with your diet then she is actually being rude.

Cook together

In that case you should ask her why she refuses to cook vegan. Ask her if she wants you to show her how to cook vegan, since it is not how she learned it. Cook something together.

Maybe look for a recipe online that looks nice and is vegan and have a nice evening cooking together.

Comments deleted. Please remember that comments are for requesting clarification or suggesting improvements, not arguing with the answer (or OP). To posters - if you have important information to add, please edit it into the appropriate post. — Sep 27 at 13:13
As much as this may be an excellent alternative for the question 'How do I get vegan cake at dinner', Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. I don't really see your question answering that, how would you propose Noon should go about this conversation? For more information, please see our meta on how to write a good answer, specifically points 1 and 2 (which links to a meta on answering the actual question asked). — 8 hours ago
@Tinkeringbell > Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. Maybe what he's asking to do is not what he should do. — 6 hours ago
@Hejazzman that doesn't explain why this answer is answering 'How to get vegan cake at dinner' instead of 'how to communicate I find this hurtful'. We're not here to tell people what they should do, that even has an official close reason. All we can then do is write an answer from experience, stating how communicating this is hurtful could be done and how it turned out really badly for the answerer and that's why they're recommending against it (or at least recommending not doing it that way). IPS isn't here to argue who's right or wrong, but help people with their Interpersonal Skills — 6 hours ago
@Tinkeringbell I believe this is something of a frame challenge to the original question. The best answer, at least in a practical sense, to "How do I do X" is sometimes "Doing X is unwise. Do Y instead." This answer explains why explaining that it is hurtful may be unwise or unproductive, but the alternative of offering to do it together or taking over the chore personally might resolve the underlying issue more fully. — 1 hour ago

score 121 · Answer 12 · 2018-09-27 13:30:20Z

Probably not want you want to hear but I think you should:

Not mention anything and just live with it

Being vegan and wanting people to respect that choice is one thing. Asking everyone else to eat vegan food because you are vegan is a very different thing.

You can't expect other people to change their lifestyle and their habits because you decided to. If you demand other people to cater to your needs it starts looking like going vegan wasn't something you did for yourself but something you did to get special treatment and attention. This isn't the message you want to send if you want your mother to ever fully accept your choice.

As to the issue of actually enjoying a cake that you didn't cook yourself. It really depends where you live but in my town there are a lot of vegan bakeries that offer wide variety of vegan deserts, maybe you can take your family there or buy something for them and see how they like it. If they really enjoy it then you can get the recipe and teach it to your mom. I don't believe she is putting eggs in her cakes just to spite you. If it was my mom I wouldn't put it past her to be doing it on purpose to tempt me back into being vegetarian but I can't judge for yours, you know her better.

EDIT: I want to reply to the your mom being hurtful comment but it turned out longer than I expected.

You are feeling hurt because you feel your needs are ignored and that it somewhat normal but you are also 23 and you shouldn't expect other people to take care of you. If your mom is anything, inconsiderate is as far as it goes. You don't have the right to blame her for not catering to your choices, you can only ask her to respect them as you should respect her choice to enjoy eggs in the cakes that she makes.

Is it nice? No it isn't, nobody is claiming it is. Is it something that you should be hurt from? No it isn't, it is just other people having different believes as to what kind of food is alright to be consumed. You say that she enjoys vegan cake just fine, but you enjoyed non vegan cake just fine until a few years ago. Does that mean you should stop being vegan? Of course not! You should be what you want to be, but don't ask other people to change because you did.

As much as this may be an excellent alternative for the question 'How do I get vegan cake at dinner', Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. I don't really see your question answering that, how would you propose Noon should go about this conversation? For more information, please see our meta on how to write a good answer, specifically points 1 and 2 (which links to a meta on answering the actual question asked). — 8 hours ago
@Tinkeringbell well the question asked is "How can I communicate to my mother that I find it hurtful when she cooks for everyone but me?". I don't believe this should be done as I don't believe her mother is acting in a hurtful way. It is quite tricky as my suggestion looks for intrapersonal solution to the issue. I see that a lot of people agree with my view. There are quite a few answers that give more direct advise on the communication issue. I don't believe having an alternative viewpoint is bad for the OP or other people visiting the site — 8 hours ago
that's something that belongs on meta, but general policy here has always been that this is a site for questions and answers about interpersonal skills, not intrapersonal. Hence why I linked you to a meta post mentioning 'should we hold answers to just the question asked' (to which the answer is 'yes, please'.) If you'd like to discuss this further though, please find me in Interpersonal Skills Chat (feel free to create a room for the purpose if you'd like), or take the discussion of this specific answer directly to meta where the community can give feedback and we can use it as future reference. — 8 hours ago
I think this just misses the mark of a frame challenge. OP has made it clear that, rather than change their mom's behavior, their goal is to let their mom know it's hurtful. You've said "I don't believe this should be done as I don't believe her mother is acting in a hurtful way," but, if OP is hurt, then by definition the mom is being hurtful. Even if it's not reasonable to be hurt, it's perfectly reasonable to want to tell someone you're hurt. OP's "frame" is that they want to communicate that they're being hurt by their mom, and I don't think your answer challenges that. — 5 hours ago

HELEN GOUSSAROVA 61512 · Answer 13 · 2018-09-28 16:16:17Z

I am a mother of a daughter who is vegan. She is 18, and lives with us.

I am torn on the subject of cakes. I find it impossible to substitute eggs in a meaningful way. One has to cook completely different types of desserts, ones that do not rely on eggs to keep shape.

My suggestion is this - there are desserts that are vegan, easy to make, and tasty - find them, make them along side with your mother, and have two types of dessert on the table.
For instance, you can make wonderful muffins from mixes, and use oil instead of eggs.

Share your creations with everyone else, be cheerful and proactive. People will like it, and you will not feel excluded.

As much as this may be an excellent alternative for the question 'How do I get vegan cake at dinner', Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. I don't really see your question answering that, how would you propose Noon should go about this conversation? For more information, please see our meta on how to write a good answer, specifically points 1 and 2 (which links to a meta on answering the actual question asked). — 8 hours ago

Em Câ™¦ 8,68723568 · Answer 14 · 2018-09-28 17:11:56Z

From personal experience, meet her halfway. Real world example... I became veggie few years ago and at Christmas my mum makes a roast dinner with potatoes done in fat etc., and a roast. She is happy to buy shop veggie sausages and do the veg.

So last year I made a Nut Roast and did a second lot of potatoes for my girlfriend and myself. I made loads so there was more than my girlfriend and I could eat, so my aunties and uncles had some. They all loved the nut roast and quite liked my potatoes and everyone raved about it.

This year my mum has asked me how I made my nut roast and potatoes as she would like to try it herself.

Good food speaks for itself... convince her with your skills :)

Generally this is good advice, to make and bring your own substitutes. In this specific example the mother bakes with non-vegan alternatives (eggs) and refuse to switch. How would you communicate her wishes to be included in her mothers baking? — Sep 28 at 14:04
@JCJ i would offer to make that meal myself with the egg alternatives, do my best to make it taste good. My gf very rarely makes normal cakes as she has better luck and taste with vegan ones and so sticks to that. You cant change everyones mind, but its worth a shot i think — 2 days ago
As much as this may be an excellent alternative for the question 'How do I get vegan cake at dinner', Noon is asking a question about their Interpersonal problem of wanting to communicate to the mother they feel hurt. I don't really see your question answering that, how would you propose Noon should go about this conversation? For more information, please see our meta on how to write a good answer, specifically points 1 and 2 (which links to a meta on answering the actual question asked). — 8 hours ago

Em Câ™¦ 8,68723568 · Answer 15 · 2018-10-03 00:46:10Z

I'm not sure if I read that correctly, but I get the feeling this is also a lot about getting a cake baked by your mother - for you. As you say you find it hurtful when she bakes a non-vegan cake.

So, why not communicate THIS to your mother? Say something like:

I have so many happy memories involving cake you did bake for us.
Nowadays, with my being vegan, I can't anymore enjoy a cake my mother
baked. I feel so left out seeing you all eat this cake, and not being
able to participate. I know I chose my vegan lifestyle and so am
responsible for it. But eating a cake you baked is not only about a
tasty dessert, but a symbol for the love and the unity as a family. If
I get you a recipe and the ingredients for a vegan cake, and showed
you how to bake it that time, would you bake one for me the next time?
I just want to feel that feeling of having a cake my mummy made for
me...

By pointing out the symbolism of said cake and its significance to you, it wouldn't be about accommodating your "extravagant" lifestyle, but about a labour of love.

It's a simple technique derived from Marshall Rosenberg's violence-free communication.

I found that any time I used it, explaining my feelings and therefore the reason behind my plea, people are more declined to comply with my plea. Granted, I take this approach mostly with my family. The examples are varying... talking to my daughter about the necessity of wearing a helmet while riding her bike: I want her to be protected the best way, because I love her - instead of just ordering her to do it.. Asking my husband to wake me from napping with a hot tea: because it feels like being cared for and loved.

Of course there's a difference with my daughter STILL not wearing a helmet or my husband not making tea - the first gets a sterner talking and asking for her reasoning, the latter just gets a sigh and an "okay" - I may be disappointed, but there's no point into forcing somebody into a labour of love, is there? ;)

score 11 · Answer 16 · 2018-10-02 12:55:42Z

TL;DR

Time your communication better.

Based on your story, I believe the biggest stumbling block is the timing of your communication.

You say:

When I see that she is about to prepare a (non-vegan) cake, I ask her, why not use some Maizena (or some compote, depending) instead but she always told me "that's not how I learned to cook" or some similar excuse.

"why not use some Maizena" is specifically provoking a defensive response because the simple answer is "I am not familiar with it, why are you pushing this in my face right now?"

Trying to change the way that someone does something in the middle of execution is downright the most ineffective way of getting a person to change what they are doing. It provokes a sense of defensiveness because you are asking them to change in the middle of auto-pilot.

In your case, it is specific to cooking but it's true in countless aspects. Consider the following scenarios:

To a student: hey I see you're studying biology tonight from textbook xyz, may I suggest textbook abc instead? It's better you know.

To a carpenter: hey I see you're about to install the standard oak handrail, would you mind using this exotic wood instead?

To a mechanic: Hey I see you're about to change my oil, can you rotate my tires first?

Do you see what I am getting at? You need to have a damn good reason for interrupting execution. Damn good reasons are usually limited to safety (hey, don't use peanuts or else 2 people will be hospitalized) and money (I know you were gonna install oak but I will pay for the labor and expenses for the exotic wood so make it happen, thanks.)

I see you have tried this multiple times but your results have been absolutely futile because she resorts to being defensive due to bad timing on your part.

However, based on her cooking vegan stuff sometimes does make it clear that she is trying and being receptive to your needs so that is good news.

My suggestion is to wait until a neutral time (2PM on a Sunday maybe?) when you can bring up your dietary wants. Additionally, now would be a good time to apologize that you've been trying to interject your veganism in the middle of meal-prep. State how much you appreciate the vegan dishes that she does make. Do not place blame for her wanting to cook in a way which is familiar. YOU need to meet half way and offer to always keep egg substitutes stocked and provide some sort of ratio chart of one egg to whatever substitute. YOU should take this time to preemptively offer to cook dessert for a week straight.

Since this conversation will be held during a neutral time, you may even request your mother to take some time on non-busy day and teach you what she knows and you can collaborate and chime in with the substitutes that you know. This way you will both learn in a safe setting.

Being vegan is YOUR want in life so you absolutely cannot expect people to bend over backwards for you. However, people are usually willing to accommodate with enough notice so always be grateful anytime anyone steps out of their comfort zone.

Think about all of the things you had to learn and internalize when you made the choice to be vegan. Asking someone else to do the same in the middle of meal-prep is quite an egregious request.

Thank you for your answer. I believe you are right in saying that my timing is off and I'm definitely using the ratio chart from now on :) — 2 days ago
@Noon You're welcome, I've seen your question hovering around the Hot Network Questions for a few days now but after seeing the answer you did accept it made me question what your real goal is so I'm glad you clarified it. — 2 days ago
I must admit that I accepted the nicest answer because I was sick of people upvoting the answer telling that I was selfish (I haven't decided yet if I will change the accepted answer, I'm probably gonna wait a little more before taking a decision). — 2 days ago
@Noon No worries. You're only obligation is to accept the answer which helped you most; this is not a popularity contest :-) — 2 days ago
This is one of the few answers here that actually focuses on communicating about the veganism with the mother, but it seems heavily focused on 'getting mom to bake vegan cake' instead of the actual question, which is 'how to communicate to mom that I find this hurtful'. Would you say the same advice is applicable in both situations? Could you perhaps then edit your answer to make it more clear in one way or another that this will communicate to the mother that Noon feels hurt? — 8 hours ago

Ruadhan2300 76919 · Answer 17 · 2018-09-28 12:05:26Z