Can enclitics be chained?

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I am active in a small Latin Discord group; a member brought up a question concerning the validity of the following phrase with chained enclitics:




Valēsneque?
(with the enclitics distinguished) Valēs-ne-que?




I assume that their intent was to convey something that fell around the following sentiments; it was not difficult for me to clearly interpret what he was trying to say:




And how are you?
And are you [doing] well?
etc.




However, I asserted that it was not valid, and offered a potentially suitable alternative like "et ut valēs?"; another member offered the equally suitable "atque ut valēs?".



I assumed that valēsneque was invalid largely based on two reasons: one, the fact that, other than words with unremovable enclitics that have taken on a separate meaning (see: quīcumque, quaecumque, quodcumque and others like it), I have never encountered any instance of chained enclitics anywhere; and secondly, the fact that Latin is classified as a fusional language, and that if valēsneque was indeed valid, it would potentially be an interesting, but unlikely, case of agglutination in a fusional language.



This leads me to my primary question: is the chaining of enclitics -que, -ve, -ne in sequences like valēsneque valid or not?










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    I am active in a small Latin Discord group; a member brought up a question concerning the validity of the following phrase with chained enclitics:




    Valēsneque?
    (with the enclitics distinguished) Valēs-ne-que?




    I assume that their intent was to convey something that fell around the following sentiments; it was not difficult for me to clearly interpret what he was trying to say:




    And how are you?
    And are you [doing] well?
    etc.




    However, I asserted that it was not valid, and offered a potentially suitable alternative like "et ut valēs?"; another member offered the equally suitable "atque ut valēs?".



    I assumed that valēsneque was invalid largely based on two reasons: one, the fact that, other than words with unremovable enclitics that have taken on a separate meaning (see: quīcumque, quaecumque, quodcumque and others like it), I have never encountered any instance of chained enclitics anywhere; and secondly, the fact that Latin is classified as a fusional language, and that if valēsneque was indeed valid, it would potentially be an interesting, but unlikely, case of agglutination in a fusional language.



    This leads me to my primary question: is the chaining of enclitics -que, -ve, -ne in sequences like valēsneque valid or not?










    share|improve this question























      up vote
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      down vote

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      up vote
      4
      down vote

      favorite











      I am active in a small Latin Discord group; a member brought up a question concerning the validity of the following phrase with chained enclitics:




      Valēsneque?
      (with the enclitics distinguished) Valēs-ne-que?




      I assume that their intent was to convey something that fell around the following sentiments; it was not difficult for me to clearly interpret what he was trying to say:




      And how are you?
      And are you [doing] well?
      etc.




      However, I asserted that it was not valid, and offered a potentially suitable alternative like "et ut valēs?"; another member offered the equally suitable "atque ut valēs?".



      I assumed that valēsneque was invalid largely based on two reasons: one, the fact that, other than words with unremovable enclitics that have taken on a separate meaning (see: quīcumque, quaecumque, quodcumque and others like it), I have never encountered any instance of chained enclitics anywhere; and secondly, the fact that Latin is classified as a fusional language, and that if valēsneque was indeed valid, it would potentially be an interesting, but unlikely, case of agglutination in a fusional language.



      This leads me to my primary question: is the chaining of enclitics -que, -ve, -ne in sequences like valēsneque valid or not?










      share|improve this question













      I am active in a small Latin Discord group; a member brought up a question concerning the validity of the following phrase with chained enclitics:




      Valēsneque?
      (with the enclitics distinguished) Valēs-ne-que?




      I assume that their intent was to convey something that fell around the following sentiments; it was not difficult for me to clearly interpret what he was trying to say:




      And how are you?
      And are you [doing] well?
      etc.




      However, I asserted that it was not valid, and offered a potentially suitable alternative like "et ut valēs?"; another member offered the equally suitable "atque ut valēs?".



      I assumed that valēsneque was invalid largely based on two reasons: one, the fact that, other than words with unremovable enclitics that have taken on a separate meaning (see: quīcumque, quaecumque, quodcumque and others like it), I have never encountered any instance of chained enclitics anywhere; and secondly, the fact that Latin is classified as a fusional language, and that if valēsneque was indeed valid, it would potentially be an interesting, but unlikely, case of agglutination in a fusional language.



      This leads me to my primary question: is the chaining of enclitics -que, -ve, -ne in sequences like valēsneque valid or not?







      morphologia enclitic






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      asked 2 hours ago









      Ethan Bierlein

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          Playing with a corpus search tool brought up no examples of -quene or -neque in the intended sense.
          If chaining was admissible, I would expect to see attestations with -que and -ne, the most common enclitics.
          Therefore I would argue that chaining of enclitics is not good classical Latin, but it is readily understandable in modern use.






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            Playing with a corpus search tool brought up no examples of -quene or -neque in the intended sense.
            If chaining was admissible, I would expect to see attestations with -que and -ne, the most common enclitics.
            Therefore I would argue that chaining of enclitics is not good classical Latin, but it is readily understandable in modern use.






            share|improve this answer


























              up vote
              3
              down vote













              Playing with a corpus search tool brought up no examples of -quene or -neque in the intended sense.
              If chaining was admissible, I would expect to see attestations with -que and -ne, the most common enclitics.
              Therefore I would argue that chaining of enclitics is not good classical Latin, but it is readily understandable in modern use.






              share|improve this answer
























                up vote
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                down vote










                up vote
                3
                down vote









                Playing with a corpus search tool brought up no examples of -quene or -neque in the intended sense.
                If chaining was admissible, I would expect to see attestations with -que and -ne, the most common enclitics.
                Therefore I would argue that chaining of enclitics is not good classical Latin, but it is readily understandable in modern use.






                share|improve this answer














                Playing with a corpus search tool brought up no examples of -quene or -neque in the intended sense.
                If chaining was admissible, I would expect to see attestations with -que and -ne, the most common enclitics.
                Therefore I would argue that chaining of enclitics is not good classical Latin, but it is readily understandable in modern use.







                share|improve this answer














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                edited 10 mins ago

























                answered 26 mins ago









                Joonas Ilmavirta♦

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