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If I supervised a PhD student to 90% of completion, can I take credit for 100%?
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I had a doctoral student for whom I was the main supervisor for throughout their data collection and most of their write-up, but just before they finished they changed to another main supervisor and I became deputy supervisor (I moved to a new institution in another country and they wanted someone closer). I counted this student on my CV as supervised to completion as main supervisor because this is 90% true and because these CV points are important for things like promotions. The plan if anyone ever called me out on this would be to just explain the situation as it is and say that 90% of the work felt like it justified the claim. The student is in Sweden (where the regulations say students have the right to change supervisors without even having to make a case) and I am a Lecturer (equivalent to associate professor) at a UK university who wants to make Reader (full professor) some day. Is this a bad idea? What is likely to go wrong?
phd advisor united-kingdom supervision sweden
edited 12 mins ago
smci
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Amorphia
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up vote
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I had a doctoral student for whom I was the main supervisor for throughout their data collection and most of their write-up, but just before they finished they changed to another main supervisor and I became deputy supervisor (I moved to a new institution in another country and they wanted someone closer). I counted this student on my CV as supervised to completion as main supervisor because this is 90% true and because these CV points are important for things like promotions. The plan if anyone ever called me out on this would be to just explain the situation as it is and say that 90% of the work felt like it justified the claim. The student is in Sweden (where the regulations say students have the right to change supervisors without even having to make a case) and I am a Lecturer (equivalent to associate professor) at a UK university who wants to make Reader (full professor) some day. Is this a bad idea? What is likely to go wrong?
phd advisor united-kingdom supervision sweden
edited 12 mins ago
smci
1,534917
asked yesterday
Amorphia
13815
New contributor
Amorphia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Why not put something based in the first sentence of the question in the CV?
– Patricia Shanahan
yesterday
To clarify, are you saying that in your department they give different amounts of credit to different co-advisors? In my department, while there is technically a section about what PhD committees you were chair of, in practice we look just look at the list of students supervised on the CV and don't typically assign different weights to different co-advisors unless we know personally how much that faculty member actually supervised.
– Kimball
yesterday
12
Dude. Do not lie in your CV.
– JeffE
22 hours ago
1
@Amorphia I think you would be better served to go by the much more widely accepted mapping of Lecturer -> Assistant, Sr. Lecturer -> Associate, Reader -> ?? (usually Professor, but I have also seen Senior Associate Professor), Professor -> Full Professor. If you put the aspect of tenure aside, all other Lecturer job characteristics map more closely to Assistant Professor than to Associate, in my opinion.
– xLeitix
17 hours ago
1
@xLeitix I wonder when you talk about Lecturer to USA mappings you are more thinking in terms of Swedish lektor? Lektor in Sweden is not exactly like UK Lecturer: in my experience it's more common to not have tenure but be called Lektor in Sweden. I have been that myself in Sweden; but it's not even possible at my UK university (if you don't have tenure you are an associate lecturer known as AL).
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
7
down vote
favorite
up vote
7
down vote
favorite
I had a doctoral student for whom I was the main supervisor for throughout their data collection and most of their write-up, but just before they finished they changed to another main supervisor and I became deputy supervisor (I moved to a new institution in another country and they wanted someone closer). I counted this student on my CV as supervised to completion as main supervisor because this is 90% true and because these CV points are important for things like promotions. The plan if anyone ever called me out on this would be to just explain the situation as it is and say that 90% of the work felt like it justified the claim. The student is in Sweden (where the regulations say students have the right to change supervisors without even having to make a case) and I am a Lecturer (equivalent to associate professor) at a UK university who wants to make Reader (full professor) some day. Is this a bad idea? What is likely to go wrong?
phd advisor united-kingdom supervision sweden
edited 12 mins ago
smci
1,534917
asked yesterday
Amorphia
13815
New contributor
Amorphia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I had a doctoral student for whom I was the main supervisor for throughout their data collection and most of their write-up, but just before they finished they changed to another main supervisor and I became deputy supervisor (I moved to a new institution in another country and they wanted someone closer). I counted this student on my CV as supervised to completion as main supervisor because this is 90% true and because these CV points are important for things like promotions. The plan if anyone ever called me out on this would be to just explain the situation as it is and say that 90% of the work felt like it justified the claim. The student is in Sweden (where the regulations say students have the right to change supervisors without even having to make a case) and I am a Lecturer (equivalent to associate professor) at a UK university who wants to make Reader (full professor) some day. Is this a bad idea? What is likely to go wrong?
phd advisor united-kingdom supervision sweden
phd advisor united-kingdom supervision sweden
edited 12 mins ago
smci
1,534917
asked yesterday
Amorphia
13815
New contributor
Amorphia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 12 mins ago
smci
1,534917
asked yesterday
Amorphia
13815
New contributor
Amorphia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 12 mins ago
smci
1,534917
edited 12 mins ago
smci
1,534917
edited 12 mins ago
smci
1,534917
1,534917
asked yesterday
Amorphia
13815
New contributor
Amorphia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked yesterday
Amorphia
13815
asked yesterday
Amorphia
13815
13815
New contributor
Amorphia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Amorphia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Amorphia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Why not put something based in the first sentence of the question in the CV?
– Patricia Shanahan
yesterday
To clarify, are you saying that in your department they give different amounts of credit to different co-advisors? In my department, while there is technically a section about what PhD committees you were chair of, in practice we look just look at the list of students supervised on the CV and don't typically assign different weights to different co-advisors unless we know personally how much that faculty member actually supervised.
– Kimball
yesterday
12
Dude. Do not lie in your CV.
– JeffE
22 hours ago
1
@Amorphia I think you would be better served to go by the much more widely accepted mapping of Lecturer -> Assistant, Sr. Lecturer -> Associate, Reader -> ?? (usually Professor, but I have also seen Senior Associate Professor), Professor -> Full Professor. If you put the aspect of tenure aside, all other Lecturer job characteristics map more closely to Assistant Professor than to Associate, in my opinion.
– xLeitix
17 hours ago
1
@xLeitix I wonder when you talk about Lecturer to USA mappings you are more thinking in terms of Swedish lektor? Lektor in Sweden is not exactly like UK Lecturer: in my experience it's more common to not have tenure but be called Lektor in Sweden. I have been that myself in Sweden; but it's not even possible at my UK university (if you don't have tenure you are an associate lecturer known as AL).
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
Why not put something based in the first sentence of the question in the CV?
– Patricia Shanahan
yesterday
To clarify, are you saying that in your department they give different amounts of credit to different co-advisors? In my department, while there is technically a section about what PhD committees you were chair of, in practice we look just look at the list of students supervised on the CV and don't typically assign different weights to different co-advisors unless we know personally how much that faculty member actually supervised.
– Kimball
yesterday
12
Dude. Do not lie in your CV.
– JeffE
22 hours ago
1
@Amorphia I think you would be better served to go by the much more widely accepted mapping of Lecturer -> Assistant, Sr. Lecturer -> Associate, Reader -> ?? (usually Professor, but I have also seen Senior Associate Professor), Professor -> Full Professor. If you put the aspect of tenure aside, all other Lecturer job characteristics map more closely to Assistant Professor than to Associate, in my opinion.
– xLeitix
17 hours ago
1
@xLeitix I wonder when you talk about Lecturer to USA mappings you are more thinking in terms of Swedish lektor? Lektor in Sweden is not exactly like UK Lecturer: in my experience it's more common to not have tenure but be called Lektor in Sweden. I have been that myself in Sweden; but it's not even possible at my UK university (if you don't have tenure you are an associate lecturer known as AL).
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
Why not put something based in the first sentence of the question in the CV?
– Patricia Shanahan
yesterday
Why not put something based in the first sentence of the question in the CV?
– Patricia Shanahan
yesterday
To clarify, are you saying that in your department they give different amounts of credit to different co-advisors? In my department, while there is technically a section about what PhD committees you were chair of, in practice we look just look at the list of students supervised on the CV and don't typically assign different weights to different co-advisors unless we know personally how much that faculty member actually supervised.
– Kimball
yesterday
To clarify, are you saying that in your department they give different amounts of credit to different co-advisors? In my department, while there is technically a section about what PhD committees you were chair of, in practice we look just look at the list of students supervised on the CV and don't typically assign different weights to different co-advisors unless we know personally how much that faculty member actually supervised.
– Kimball
yesterday
12
12
Dude. Do not lie in your CV.
– JeffE
22 hours ago
Dude. Do not lie in your CV.
– JeffE
22 hours ago
1
1
@Amorphia I think you would be better served to go by the much more widely accepted mapping of Lecturer -> Assistant, Sr. Lecturer -> Associate, Reader -> ?? (usually Professor, but I have also seen Senior Associate Professor), Professor -> Full Professor. If you put the aspect of tenure aside, all other Lecturer job characteristics map more closely to Assistant Professor than to Associate, in my opinion.
– xLeitix
17 hours ago
@Amorphia I think you would be better served to go by the much more widely accepted mapping of Lecturer -> Assistant, Sr. Lecturer -> Associate, Reader -> ?? (usually Professor, but I have also seen Senior Associate Professor), Professor -> Full Professor. If you put the aspect of tenure aside, all other Lecturer job characteristics map more closely to Assistant Professor than to Associate, in my opinion.
– xLeitix
17 hours ago
1
1
@xLeitix I wonder when you talk about Lecturer to USA mappings you are more thinking in terms of Swedish lektor? Lektor in Sweden is not exactly like UK Lecturer: in my experience it's more common to not have tenure but be called Lektor in Sweden. I have been that myself in Sweden; but it's not even possible at my UK university (if you don't have tenure you are an associate lecturer known as AL).
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
@xLeitix I wonder when you talk about Lecturer to USA mappings you are more thinking in terms of Swedish lektor? Lektor in Sweden is not exactly like UK Lecturer: in my experience it's more common to not have tenure but be called Lektor in Sweden. I have been that myself in Sweden; but it's not even possible at my UK university (if you don't have tenure you are an associate lecturer known as AL).
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
On a generic CV, I would simply make a section of "Graduate students supervised and co-supervised", and include this student. In this context it wouldn't be necessary to go into detail about whether the supervision was "to completion".
But for something like a promotion dossier, where you're asked to tick boxes, I would go to whoever is responsible for overseeing the evaluation process (department head, promotion committee chair, etc), explain the situation, and ask what you should do. If at all possible, get an answer in writing. Then, when you fill out the form, attach a note saying something like:
One student was supervised by me for about 90% of their thesis work (stages X, Y, Z), and then changed supervisors for the last 10%; I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor. I spoke with Department Head Smith on October 24, 2018, and she advised that it was appropriate to include this student as "supervised to completion".
If Smith says "no, don't count it", then you attach a similar note saying "Smith said not to include this student, but I believe that this is a similar accomplishment to supervising a student to completion".
Since academic achievement is generally self-reported and "honor system", this means that any attempt to "cheat" is seen as a serious ethical offense. If someone on the evaluation committee is hostile to you, they could use something like this as ammunition to wreck your entire promotion case. ("Candidate says supervised to completion, but student's dissertation shows someone else as supervisor. Clear-cut fraud.") So that's what could go wrong. But if you disclose the situation, and get someone else to pre-approve the way you're filling the form, you eliminate the possibility; maybe it won't be counted in your favor, but at least you can't be accused of fraud.
answered yesterday
Nate Eldredge
98.2k31278382
If doesn't actually say to completion on list, then there might instead be coming questions of how many on the list did actually finish.
– mathreadler
22 hours ago
1
“I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor“ that kinda makes it sound like they changed because of you, but because you moved. Maybe something less defensive is appropriate.
– DonQuiKong
11 hours ago
@DonQuiKong: Okay, so add "then I left the institution and so they changed supervisors".
– Nate Eldredge
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
The fact that you ask, makes me think that you believe it would be at least a bit wrong. Anything that looks like dishonesty in an academic's statements or record can be very serious.
I suggest two things. One is to be completely honest about it as you have been here. But the other is to talk to the student in question and perhaps get a statement/recommendation from him/her about your helpfulness. A recommendation from a student for a professor might be a very powerful statement to a hiring committee.
answered yesterday
Buffy
22.5k670126
Thanks for the suggestions. My univ administration runs very much on the box ticking model. Applying for promotion will involve ticking a box for x students or x+1. I don’t personally feel it’s wrong because x+1 is closest to the truth. But I don’t know if someone else might think it’s wrong. Maybe I could tick x+1 and put an asterisk with an explanation. Hmm...
– Amorphia
yesterday
@Amorphia Are they expecting these boxes to be checked at their institution, or for your whole career? I.e. would you treat it differently if this student graduated while you were still at the earlier institution?
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
What could go wrong:
- You might not be given a chance to explain it.
- Once someone realizes you fudged this detail a little, it might call all of the other details in your cv into question.
answered yesterday
Morgan Rodgers
3,75911625
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
tl;dr: Just check the binding regulations.
You're asking the wrong people. Some of us think it's bad, some of us don't. In some universities the criteria are this way, in some - that way.
So just open the administrative/academic/promotion-related regulations for your university or department, and see what it says: What exactly is supposed to count for promotions? If the wording is not entirely clear, consult the head of your department.
Now, you might be wondering "Ah, but what if he tells me to change my CV, while in fact the promotion committee would have never looked into it?"
Well, maybe. But:
- It's unethical to do so.
- The expectation of benefit/damage over both cases is not high enough for this to be appealing even if you have no ethical scruples (or if you think the promotion process is otherwise unfair).
having said all of the above I must also tell you that: Look, you didn't supervise that PhD to completion. What can I say? You just didn't. You had planned to do it; you would have done it, had the circumstances allowed it; you put in most of the effort towards it - sure. But at the end of the day, that's not what happened.
answered 14 hours ago
einpoklum
21k132124
There's an assumption here you probably haven't realised you've made, that turns out to be false. "Could have" supervised to completion; actually I can't. Although we had a productive working relationship (one good published paper and the student is close to finished overall) they dump me last minute because they think it will be better for them to have a supervisor close to home for the final steps. They are probably wrong about this because the new supervisor is much less familiar with the work. I regard this as a stupid betrayal and am not pleased but there is nothing I can do.
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
@Amorphia: Sorry, I meant "could have, had it not been for the circumstances". I'll remove that part.
– einpoklum
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
On a generic CV, I would simply make a section of "Graduate students supervised and co-supervised", and include this student. In this context it wouldn't be necessary to go into detail about whether the supervision was "to completion".
But for something like a promotion dossier, where you're asked to tick boxes, I would go to whoever is responsible for overseeing the evaluation process (department head, promotion committee chair, etc), explain the situation, and ask what you should do. If at all possible, get an answer in writing. Then, when you fill out the form, attach a note saying something like:
One student was supervised by me for about 90% of their thesis work (stages X, Y, Z), and then changed supervisors for the last 10%; I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor. I spoke with Department Head Smith on October 24, 2018, and she advised that it was appropriate to include this student as "supervised to completion".
If Smith says "no, don't count it", then you attach a similar note saying "Smith said not to include this student, but I believe that this is a similar accomplishment to supervising a student to completion".
Since academic achievement is generally self-reported and "honor system", this means that any attempt to "cheat" is seen as a serious ethical offense. If someone on the evaluation committee is hostile to you, they could use something like this as ammunition to wreck your entire promotion case. ("Candidate says supervised to completion, but student's dissertation shows someone else as supervisor. Clear-cut fraud.") So that's what could go wrong. But if you disclose the situation, and get someone else to pre-approve the way you're filling the form, you eliminate the possibility; maybe it won't be counted in your favor, but at least you can't be accused of fraud.
answered yesterday
Nate Eldredge
98.2k31278382
If doesn't actually say to completion on list, then there might instead be coming questions of how many on the list did actually finish.
– mathreadler
22 hours ago
1
“I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor“ that kinda makes it sound like they changed because of you, but because you moved. Maybe something less defensive is appropriate.
– DonQuiKong
11 hours ago
@DonQuiKong: Okay, so add "then I left the institution and so they changed supervisors".
– Nate Eldredge
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
On a generic CV, I would simply make a section of "Graduate students supervised and co-supervised", and include this student. In this context it wouldn't be necessary to go into detail about whether the supervision was "to completion".
But for something like a promotion dossier, where you're asked to tick boxes, I would go to whoever is responsible for overseeing the evaluation process (department head, promotion committee chair, etc), explain the situation, and ask what you should do. If at all possible, get an answer in writing. Then, when you fill out the form, attach a note saying something like:
One student was supervised by me for about 90% of their thesis work (stages X, Y, Z), and then changed supervisors for the last 10%; I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor. I spoke with Department Head Smith on October 24, 2018, and she advised that it was appropriate to include this student as "supervised to completion".
If Smith says "no, don't count it", then you attach a similar note saying "Smith said not to include this student, but I believe that this is a similar accomplishment to supervising a student to completion".
Since academic achievement is generally self-reported and "honor system", this means that any attempt to "cheat" is seen as a serious ethical offense. If someone on the evaluation committee is hostile to you, they could use something like this as ammunition to wreck your entire promotion case. ("Candidate says supervised to completion, but student's dissertation shows someone else as supervisor. Clear-cut fraud.") So that's what could go wrong. But if you disclose the situation, and get someone else to pre-approve the way you're filling the form, you eliminate the possibility; maybe it won't be counted in your favor, but at least you can't be accused of fraud.
answered yesterday
Nate Eldredge
98.2k31278382
If doesn't actually say to completion on list, then there might instead be coming questions of how many on the list did actually finish.
– mathreadler
22 hours ago
1
“I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor“ that kinda makes it sound like they changed because of you, but because you moved. Maybe something less defensive is appropriate.
– DonQuiKong
11 hours ago
@DonQuiKong: Okay, so add "then I left the institution and so they changed supervisors".
– Nate Eldredge
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
On a generic CV, I would simply make a section of "Graduate students supervised and co-supervised", and include this student. In this context it wouldn't be necessary to go into detail about whether the supervision was "to completion".
But for something like a promotion dossier, where you're asked to tick boxes, I would go to whoever is responsible for overseeing the evaluation process (department head, promotion committee chair, etc), explain the situation, and ask what you should do. If at all possible, get an answer in writing. Then, when you fill out the form, attach a note saying something like:
One student was supervised by me for about 90% of their thesis work (stages X, Y, Z), and then changed supervisors for the last 10%; I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor. I spoke with Department Head Smith on October 24, 2018, and she advised that it was appropriate to include this student as "supervised to completion".
If Smith says "no, don't count it", then you attach a similar note saying "Smith said not to include this student, but I believe that this is a similar accomplishment to supervising a student to completion".
Since academic achievement is generally self-reported and "honor system", this means that any attempt to "cheat" is seen as a serious ethical offense. If someone on the evaluation committee is hostile to you, they could use something like this as ammunition to wreck your entire promotion case. ("Candidate says supervised to completion, but student's dissertation shows someone else as supervisor. Clear-cut fraud.") So that's what could go wrong. But if you disclose the situation, and get someone else to pre-approve the way you're filling the form, you eliminate the possibility; maybe it won't be counted in your favor, but at least you can't be accused of fraud.
answered yesterday
Nate Eldredge
98.2k31278382
On a generic CV, I would simply make a section of "Graduate students supervised and co-supervised", and include this student. In this context it wouldn't be necessary to go into detail about whether the supervision was "to completion".
But for something like a promotion dossier, where you're asked to tick boxes, I would go to whoever is responsible for overseeing the evaluation process (department head, promotion committee chair, etc), explain the situation, and ask what you should do. If at all possible, get an answer in writing. Then, when you fill out the form, attach a note saying something like:
One student was supervised by me for about 90% of their thesis work (stages X, Y, Z), and then changed supervisors for the last 10%; I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor. I spoke with Department Head Smith on October 24, 2018, and she advised that it was appropriate to include this student as "supervised to completion".
If Smith says "no, don't count it", then you attach a similar note saying "Smith said not to include this student, but I believe that this is a similar accomplishment to supervising a student to completion".
Since academic achievement is generally self-reported and "honor system", this means that any attempt to "cheat" is seen as a serious ethical offense. If someone on the evaluation committee is hostile to you, they could use something like this as ammunition to wreck your entire promotion case. ("Candidate says supervised to completion, but student's dissertation shows someone else as supervisor. Clear-cut fraud.") So that's what could go wrong. But if you disclose the situation, and get someone else to pre-approve the way you're filling the form, you eliminate the possibility; maybe it won't be counted in your favor, but at least you can't be accused of fraud.
answered yesterday
Nate Eldredge
98.2k31278382
answered yesterday
Nate Eldredge
98.2k31278382
answered yesterday
Nate Eldredge
98.2k31278382
answered yesterday
Nate Eldredge
98.2k31278382
98.2k31278382
If doesn't actually say to completion on list, then there might instead be coming questions of how many on the list did actually finish.
– mathreadler
22 hours ago
1
“I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor“ that kinda makes it sound like they changed because of you, but because you moved. Maybe something less defensive is appropriate.
– DonQuiKong
11 hours ago
@DonQuiKong: Okay, so add "then I left the institution and so they changed supervisors".
– Nate Eldredge
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
If doesn't actually say to completion on list, then there might instead be coming questions of how many on the list did actually finish.
– mathreadler
22 hours ago
1
“I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor“ that kinda makes it sound like they changed because of you, but because you moved. Maybe something less defensive is appropriate.
– DonQuiKong
11 hours ago
@DonQuiKong: Okay, so add "then I left the institution and so they changed supervisors".
– Nate Eldredge
10 hours ago
If doesn't actually say to completion on list, then there might instead be coming questions of how many on the list did actually finish.
– mathreadler
22 hours ago
If doesn't actually say to completion on list, then there might instead be coming questions of how many on the list did actually finish.
– mathreadler
22 hours ago
1
1
“I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor“ that kinda makes it sound like they changed because of you, but because you moved. Maybe something less defensive is appropriate.
– DonQuiKong
11 hours ago
“I am officially listed as their deputy supervisor“ that kinda makes it sound like they changed because of you, but because you moved. Maybe something less defensive is appropriate.
– DonQuiKong
11 hours ago
@DonQuiKong: Okay, so add "then I left the institution and so they changed supervisors".
– Nate Eldredge
10 hours ago
@DonQuiKong: Okay, so add "then I left the institution and so they changed supervisors".
– Nate Eldredge
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
The fact that you ask, makes me think that you believe it would be at least a bit wrong. Anything that looks like dishonesty in an academic's statements or record can be very serious.
I suggest two things. One is to be completely honest about it as you have been here. But the other is to talk to the student in question and perhaps get a statement/recommendation from him/her about your helpfulness. A recommendation from a student for a professor might be a very powerful statement to a hiring committee.
answered yesterday
Buffy
22.5k670126
Thanks for the suggestions. My univ administration runs very much on the box ticking model. Applying for promotion will involve ticking a box for x students or x+1. I don’t personally feel it’s wrong because x+1 is closest to the truth. But I don’t know if someone else might think it’s wrong. Maybe I could tick x+1 and put an asterisk with an explanation. Hmm...
– Amorphia
yesterday
@Amorphia Are they expecting these boxes to be checked at their institution, or for your whole career? I.e. would you treat it differently if this student graduated while you were still at the earlier institution?
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
The fact that you ask, makes me think that you believe it would be at least a bit wrong. Anything that looks like dishonesty in an academic's statements or record can be very serious.
I suggest two things. One is to be completely honest about it as you have been here. But the other is to talk to the student in question and perhaps get a statement/recommendation from him/her about your helpfulness. A recommendation from a student for a professor might be a very powerful statement to a hiring committee.
answered yesterday
Buffy
22.5k670126
Thanks for the suggestions. My univ administration runs very much on the box ticking model. Applying for promotion will involve ticking a box for x students or x+1. I don’t personally feel it’s wrong because x+1 is closest to the truth. But I don’t know if someone else might think it’s wrong. Maybe I could tick x+1 and put an asterisk with an explanation. Hmm...
– Amorphia
yesterday
@Amorphia Are they expecting these boxes to be checked at their institution, or for your whole career? I.e. would you treat it differently if this student graduated while you were still at the earlier institution?
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
The fact that you ask, makes me think that you believe it would be at least a bit wrong. Anything that looks like dishonesty in an academic's statements or record can be very serious.
I suggest two things. One is to be completely honest about it as you have been here. But the other is to talk to the student in question and perhaps get a statement/recommendation from him/her about your helpfulness. A recommendation from a student for a professor might be a very powerful statement to a hiring committee.
answered yesterday
Buffy
22.5k670126
The fact that you ask, makes me think that you believe it would be at least a bit wrong. Anything that looks like dishonesty in an academic's statements or record can be very serious.
I suggest two things. One is to be completely honest about it as you have been here. But the other is to talk to the student in question and perhaps get a statement/recommendation from him/her about your helpfulness. A recommendation from a student for a professor might be a very powerful statement to a hiring committee.
answered yesterday
Buffy
22.5k670126
answered yesterday
Buffy
22.5k670126
answered yesterday
Buffy
22.5k670126
answered yesterday
Buffy
22.5k670126
22.5k670126
Thanks for the suggestions. My univ administration runs very much on the box ticking model. Applying for promotion will involve ticking a box for x students or x+1. I don’t personally feel it’s wrong because x+1 is closest to the truth. But I don’t know if someone else might think it’s wrong. Maybe I could tick x+1 and put an asterisk with an explanation. Hmm...
– Amorphia
yesterday
@Amorphia Are they expecting these boxes to be checked at their institution, or for your whole career? I.e. would you treat it differently if this student graduated while you were still at the earlier institution?
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
add a comment |Â
Thanks for the suggestions. My univ administration runs very much on the box ticking model. Applying for promotion will involve ticking a box for x students or x+1. I don’t personally feel it’s wrong because x+1 is closest to the truth. But I don’t know if someone else might think it’s wrong. Maybe I could tick x+1 and put an asterisk with an explanation. Hmm...
– Amorphia
yesterday
@Amorphia Are they expecting these boxes to be checked at their institution, or for your whole career? I.e. would you treat it differently if this student graduated while you were still at the earlier institution?
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
Thanks for the suggestions. My univ administration runs very much on the box ticking model. Applying for promotion will involve ticking a box for x students or x+1. I don’t personally feel it’s wrong because x+1 is closest to the truth. But I don’t know if someone else might think it’s wrong. Maybe I could tick x+1 and put an asterisk with an explanation. Hmm...
– Amorphia
yesterday
Thanks for the suggestions. My univ administration runs very much on the box ticking model. Applying for promotion will involve ticking a box for x students or x+1. I don’t personally feel it’s wrong because x+1 is closest to the truth. But I don’t know if someone else might think it’s wrong. Maybe I could tick x+1 and put an asterisk with an explanation. Hmm...
– Amorphia
yesterday
@Amorphia Are they expecting these boxes to be checked at their institution, or for your whole career? I.e. would you treat it differently if this student graduated while you were still at the earlier institution?
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
@Amorphia Are they expecting these boxes to be checked at their institution, or for your whole career? I.e. would you treat it differently if this student graduated while you were still at the earlier institution?
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
What could go wrong:
- You might not be given a chance to explain it.
- Once someone realizes you fudged this detail a little, it might call all of the other details in your cv into question.
answered yesterday
Morgan Rodgers
3,75911625
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
What could go wrong:
- You might not be given a chance to explain it.
- Once someone realizes you fudged this detail a little, it might call all of the other details in your cv into question.
answered yesterday
Morgan Rodgers
3,75911625
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
What could go wrong:
- You might not be given a chance to explain it.
- Once someone realizes you fudged this detail a little, it might call all of the other details in your cv into question.
answered yesterday
Morgan Rodgers
3,75911625
What could go wrong:
- You might not be given a chance to explain it.
- Once someone realizes you fudged this detail a little, it might call all of the other details in your cv into question.
answered yesterday
Morgan Rodgers
3,75911625
answered yesterday
Morgan Rodgers
3,75911625
answered yesterday
Morgan Rodgers
3,75911625
answered yesterday
Morgan Rodgers
3,75911625
3,75911625
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
tl;dr: Just check the binding regulations.
You're asking the wrong people. Some of us think it's bad, some of us don't. In some universities the criteria are this way, in some - that way.
So just open the administrative/academic/promotion-related regulations for your university or department, and see what it says: What exactly is supposed to count for promotions? If the wording is not entirely clear, consult the head of your department.
Now, you might be wondering "Ah, but what if he tells me to change my CV, while in fact the promotion committee would have never looked into it?"
Well, maybe. But:
- It's unethical to do so.
- The expectation of benefit/damage over both cases is not high enough for this to be appealing even if you have no ethical scruples (or if you think the promotion process is otherwise unfair).
having said all of the above I must also tell you that: Look, you didn't supervise that PhD to completion. What can I say? You just didn't. You had planned to do it; you would have done it, had the circumstances allowed it; you put in most of the effort towards it - sure. But at the end of the day, that's not what happened.
answered 14 hours ago
einpoklum
21k132124
There's an assumption here you probably haven't realised you've made, that turns out to be false. "Could have" supervised to completion; actually I can't. Although we had a productive working relationship (one good published paper and the student is close to finished overall) they dump me last minute because they think it will be better for them to have a supervisor close to home for the final steps. They are probably wrong about this because the new supervisor is much less familiar with the work. I regard this as a stupid betrayal and am not pleased but there is nothing I can do.
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
@Amorphia: Sorry, I meant "could have, had it not been for the circumstances". I'll remove that part.
– einpoklum
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
tl;dr: Just check the binding regulations.
You're asking the wrong people. Some of us think it's bad, some of us don't. In some universities the criteria are this way, in some - that way.
So just open the administrative/academic/promotion-related regulations for your university or department, and see what it says: What exactly is supposed to count for promotions? If the wording is not entirely clear, consult the head of your department.
Now, you might be wondering "Ah, but what if he tells me to change my CV, while in fact the promotion committee would have never looked into it?"
Well, maybe. But:
- It's unethical to do so.
- The expectation of benefit/damage over both cases is not high enough for this to be appealing even if you have no ethical scruples (or if you think the promotion process is otherwise unfair).
having said all of the above I must also tell you that: Look, you didn't supervise that PhD to completion. What can I say? You just didn't. You had planned to do it; you would have done it, had the circumstances allowed it; you put in most of the effort towards it - sure. But at the end of the day, that's not what happened.
answered 14 hours ago
einpoklum
21k132124
There's an assumption here you probably haven't realised you've made, that turns out to be false. "Could have" supervised to completion; actually I can't. Although we had a productive working relationship (one good published paper and the student is close to finished overall) they dump me last minute because they think it will be better for them to have a supervisor close to home for the final steps. They are probably wrong about this because the new supervisor is much less familiar with the work. I regard this as a stupid betrayal and am not pleased but there is nothing I can do.
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
@Amorphia: Sorry, I meant "could have, had it not been for the circumstances". I'll remove that part.
– einpoklum
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
tl;dr: Just check the binding regulations.
You're asking the wrong people. Some of us think it's bad, some of us don't. In some universities the criteria are this way, in some - that way.
So just open the administrative/academic/promotion-related regulations for your university or department, and see what it says: What exactly is supposed to count for promotions? If the wording is not entirely clear, consult the head of your department.
Now, you might be wondering "Ah, but what if he tells me to change my CV, while in fact the promotion committee would have never looked into it?"
Well, maybe. But:
- It's unethical to do so.
- The expectation of benefit/damage over both cases is not high enough for this to be appealing even if you have no ethical scruples (or if you think the promotion process is otherwise unfair).
having said all of the above I must also tell you that: Look, you didn't supervise that PhD to completion. What can I say? You just didn't. You had planned to do it; you would have done it, had the circumstances allowed it; you put in most of the effort towards it - sure. But at the end of the day, that's not what happened.
answered 14 hours ago
einpoklum
21k132124
tl;dr: Just check the binding regulations.
You're asking the wrong people. Some of us think it's bad, some of us don't. In some universities the criteria are this way, in some - that way.
So just open the administrative/academic/promotion-related regulations for your university or department, and see what it says: What exactly is supposed to count for promotions? If the wording is not entirely clear, consult the head of your department.
Now, you might be wondering "Ah, but what if he tells me to change my CV, while in fact the promotion committee would have never looked into it?"
Well, maybe. But:
- It's unethical to do so.
- The expectation of benefit/damage over both cases is not high enough for this to be appealing even if you have no ethical scruples (or if you think the promotion process is otherwise unfair).
having said all of the above I must also tell you that: Look, you didn't supervise that PhD to completion. What can I say? You just didn't. You had planned to do it; you would have done it, had the circumstances allowed it; you put in most of the effort towards it - sure. But at the end of the day, that's not what happened.
answered 14 hours ago
einpoklum
21k132124
edited 9 hours ago
answered 14 hours ago
einpoklum
21k132124
answered 14 hours ago
einpoklum
21k132124
answered 14 hours ago
einpoklum
21k132124
21k132124
There's an assumption here you probably haven't realised you've made, that turns out to be false. "Could have" supervised to completion; actually I can't. Although we had a productive working relationship (one good published paper and the student is close to finished overall) they dump me last minute because they think it will be better for them to have a supervisor close to home for the final steps. They are probably wrong about this because the new supervisor is much less familiar with the work. I regard this as a stupid betrayal and am not pleased but there is nothing I can do.
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
@Amorphia: Sorry, I meant "could have, had it not been for the circumstances". I'll remove that part.
– einpoklum
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
There's an assumption here you probably haven't realised you've made, that turns out to be false. "Could have" supervised to completion; actually I can't. Although we had a productive working relationship (one good published paper and the student is close to finished overall) they dump me last minute because they think it will be better for them to have a supervisor close to home for the final steps. They are probably wrong about this because the new supervisor is much less familiar with the work. I regard this as a stupid betrayal and am not pleased but there is nothing I can do.
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
@Amorphia: Sorry, I meant "could have, had it not been for the circumstances". I'll remove that part.
– einpoklum
9 hours ago
There's an assumption here you probably haven't realised you've made, that turns out to be false. "Could have" supervised to completion; actually I can't. Although we had a productive working relationship (one good published paper and the student is close to finished overall) they dump me last minute because they think it will be better for them to have a supervisor close to home for the final steps. They are probably wrong about this because the new supervisor is much less familiar with the work. I regard this as a stupid betrayal and am not pleased but there is nothing I can do.
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
There's an assumption here you probably haven't realised you've made, that turns out to be false. "Could have" supervised to completion; actually I can't. Although we had a productive working relationship (one good published paper and the student is close to finished overall) they dump me last minute because they think it will be better for them to have a supervisor close to home for the final steps. They are probably wrong about this because the new supervisor is much less familiar with the work. I regard this as a stupid betrayal and am not pleased but there is nothing I can do.
– Amorphia
13 hours ago
@Amorphia: Sorry, I meant "could have, had it not been for the circumstances". I'll remove that part.
– einpoklum
9 hours ago
@Amorphia: Sorry, I meant "could have, had it not been for the circumstances". I'll remove that part.
– einpoklum
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
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Why not put something based in the first sentence of the question in the CV?
– Patricia Shanahan
yesterday
To clarify, are you saying that in your department they give different amounts of credit to different co-advisors? In my department, while there is technically a section about what PhD committees you were chair of, in practice we look just look at the list of students supervised on the CV and don't typically assign different weights to different co-advisors unless we know personally how much that faculty member actually supervised.
– Kimball
yesterday
12
Dude. Do not lie in your CV.
– JeffE
22 hours ago
1
@Amorphia I think you would be better served to go by the much more widely accepted mapping of Lecturer -> Assistant, Sr. Lecturer -> Associate, Reader -> ?? (usually Professor, but I have also seen Senior Associate Professor), Professor -> Full Professor. If you put the aspect of tenure aside, all other Lecturer job characteristics map more closely to Assistant Professor than to Associate, in my opinion.
– xLeitix
17 hours ago
1
@xLeitix I wonder when you talk about Lecturer to USA mappings you are more thinking in terms of Swedish lektor? Lektor in Sweden is not exactly like UK Lecturer: in my experience it's more common to not have tenure but be called Lektor in Sweden. I have been that myself in Sweden; but it's not even possible at my UK university (if you don't have tenure you are an associate lecturer known as AL).
– Amorphia
13 hours ago