Mixing
Using decapped ICs in production
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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We were looking for a very specific type of ADC in a small package for one of our projects, and found something suitable in a TSSOP. We wanted to save more space, so looked into getting bare dies; the manufacturer confirmed the dies are 2mm square, but said we'd have to order "some millions" to make it worth providing them. We needed maybe 500/yr and the budget is not huge, so that was the end of it and we decided to do something else.
But I was curious: What do people do when they want small numbers of bare dies? Does anyone decap ICs and use the dies in production? If so, can the process be made reliable, and roughly how expensive is it?
If anyone has examples of products or case studies, that would be really interesting.
prototyping packages production die
asked 1 hour ago
Jack B
9,46412034
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
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We were looking for a very specific type of ADC in a small package for one of our projects, and found something suitable in a TSSOP. We wanted to save more space, so looked into getting bare dies; the manufacturer confirmed the dies are 2mm square, but said we'd have to order "some millions" to make it worth providing them. We needed maybe 500/yr and the budget is not huge, so that was the end of it and we decided to do something else.
But I was curious: What do people do when they want small numbers of bare dies? Does anyone decap ICs and use the dies in production? If so, can the process be made reliable, and roughly how expensive is it?
If anyone has examples of products or case studies, that would be really interesting.
prototyping packages production die
asked 1 hour ago
Jack B
9,46412034
1
Not an answer, just a caveat - semiconductors can be light sensitive: Raspberry Pi Xenon Death Flash.
– Andrew Morton
1 hour ago
2
If there are a sufficient number of low volume buyers for a product that a manufacturer does not want to deal with, a wholesaler will buy large volume lots and resell to low-volume customers. If there is not a sufficient volume, potential customers "do something else."
– Charles Cowie
1 hour ago
@AndrewMorton In this hypotehtical case, the die would be stuck to a PCB along with some other components, then encapsulated. So that shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't want to leave the bare die open anyway, as the wirebonds will be very fagile.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
I would say designers first seek out CSP parts like bga before trying to get bare die.
– sstobbe
1 hour ago
@CharlesCowie AFAIK in this case that isn't happening, or the manufacturer would probably have mentioned that they provide bare dies to a reseller. The interesting thing is that we might have been willing to pay £50-100 each for the smaller packaging if we hadn't had the other option, hence my curiosity.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
We were looking for a very specific type of ADC in a small package for one of our projects, and found something suitable in a TSSOP. We wanted to save more space, so looked into getting bare dies; the manufacturer confirmed the dies are 2mm square, but said we'd have to order "some millions" to make it worth providing them. We needed maybe 500/yr and the budget is not huge, so that was the end of it and we decided to do something else.
But I was curious: What do people do when they want small numbers of bare dies? Does anyone decap ICs and use the dies in production? If so, can the process be made reliable, and roughly how expensive is it?
If anyone has examples of products or case studies, that would be really interesting.
prototyping packages production die
asked 1 hour ago
Jack B
9,46412034
We were looking for a very specific type of ADC in a small package for one of our projects, and found something suitable in a TSSOP. We wanted to save more space, so looked into getting bare dies; the manufacturer confirmed the dies are 2mm square, but said we'd have to order "some millions" to make it worth providing them. We needed maybe 500/yr and the budget is not huge, so that was the end of it and we decided to do something else.
But I was curious: What do people do when they want small numbers of bare dies? Does anyone decap ICs and use the dies in production? If so, can the process be made reliable, and roughly how expensive is it?
If anyone has examples of products or case studies, that would be really interesting.
prototyping packages production die
prototyping packages production die
asked 1 hour ago
Jack B
9,46412034
asked 1 hour ago
Jack B
9,46412034
asked 1 hour ago
Jack B
9,46412034
asked 1 hour ago
Jack B
9,46412034
asked 1 hour ago
Jack B
9,46412034
9,46412034
1
Not an answer, just a caveat - semiconductors can be light sensitive: Raspberry Pi Xenon Death Flash.
– Andrew Morton
1 hour ago
2
If there are a sufficient number of low volume buyers for a product that a manufacturer does not want to deal with, a wholesaler will buy large volume lots and resell to low-volume customers. If there is not a sufficient volume, potential customers "do something else."
– Charles Cowie
1 hour ago
@AndrewMorton In this hypotehtical case, the die would be stuck to a PCB along with some other components, then encapsulated. So that shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't want to leave the bare die open anyway, as the wirebonds will be very fagile.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
I would say designers first seek out CSP parts like bga before trying to get bare die.
– sstobbe
1 hour ago
@CharlesCowie AFAIK in this case that isn't happening, or the manufacturer would probably have mentioned that they provide bare dies to a reseller. The interesting thing is that we might have been willing to pay £50-100 each for the smaller packaging if we hadn't had the other option, hence my curiosity.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
1
Not an answer, just a caveat - semiconductors can be light sensitive: Raspberry Pi Xenon Death Flash.
– Andrew Morton
1 hour ago
2
If there are a sufficient number of low volume buyers for a product that a manufacturer does not want to deal with, a wholesaler will buy large volume lots and resell to low-volume customers. If there is not a sufficient volume, potential customers "do something else."
– Charles Cowie
1 hour ago
@AndrewMorton In this hypotehtical case, the die would be stuck to a PCB along with some other components, then encapsulated. So that shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't want to leave the bare die open anyway, as the wirebonds will be very fagile.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
I would say designers first seek out CSP parts like bga before trying to get bare die.
– sstobbe
1 hour ago
@CharlesCowie AFAIK in this case that isn't happening, or the manufacturer would probably have mentioned that they provide bare dies to a reseller. The interesting thing is that we might have been willing to pay £50-100 each for the smaller packaging if we hadn't had the other option, hence my curiosity.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
1
1
Not an answer, just a caveat - semiconductors can be light sensitive: Raspberry Pi Xenon Death Flash.
– Andrew Morton
1 hour ago
Not an answer, just a caveat - semiconductors can be light sensitive: Raspberry Pi Xenon Death Flash.
– Andrew Morton
1 hour ago
2
2
If there are a sufficient number of low volume buyers for a product that a manufacturer does not want to deal with, a wholesaler will buy large volume lots and resell to low-volume customers. If there is not a sufficient volume, potential customers "do something else."
– Charles Cowie
1 hour ago
If there are a sufficient number of low volume buyers for a product that a manufacturer does not want to deal with, a wholesaler will buy large volume lots and resell to low-volume customers. If there is not a sufficient volume, potential customers "do something else."
– Charles Cowie
1 hour ago
@AndrewMorton In this hypotehtical case, the die would be stuck to a PCB along with some other components, then encapsulated. So that shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't want to leave the bare die open anyway, as the wirebonds will be very fagile.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
@AndrewMorton In this hypotehtical case, the die would be stuck to a PCB along with some other components, then encapsulated. So that shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't want to leave the bare die open anyway, as the wirebonds will be very fagile.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
I would say designers first seek out CSP parts like bga before trying to get bare die.
– sstobbe
1 hour ago
I would say designers first seek out CSP parts like bga before trying to get bare die.
– sstobbe
1 hour ago
@CharlesCowie AFAIK in this case that isn't happening, or the manufacturer would probably have mentioned that they provide bare dies to a reseller. The interesting thing is that we might have been willing to pay £50-100 each for the smaller packaging if we hadn't had the other option, hence my curiosity.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
@CharlesCowie AFAIK in this case that isn't happening, or the manufacturer would probably have mentioned that they provide bare dies to a reseller. The interesting thing is that we might have been willing to pay £50-100 each for the smaller packaging if we hadn't had the other option, hence my curiosity.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
I have used de-capped IC in pico-probing for silicon debugging. (Where you remove the top and passivation layer and then put probe needles on the die) The decapping is done with special hot-acid pump and a special rubber 'window'. The idea of decapping is to have a more or less complete package but have access to the silicon.
You save no space. You have the whole package but just with a hole at the top.
The bond wires where still there, so no clean die.
You could try throwing a bundle of chips in boiling acid and see what comes out. But my guess is the bond pads will not be usable anymore.
answered 26 mins ago
Oldfart
7,3332724
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
I have used de-capped IC in pico-probing for silicon debugging. (Where you remove the top and passivation layer and then put probe needles on the die) The decapping is done with special hot-acid pump and a special rubber 'window'. The idea of decapping is to have a more or less complete package but have access to the silicon.
You save no space. You have the whole package but just with a hole at the top.
The bond wires where still there, so no clean die.
You could try throwing a bundle of chips in boiling acid and see what comes out. But my guess is the bond pads will not be usable anymore.
answered 26 mins ago
Oldfart
7,3332724
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
I have used de-capped IC in pico-probing for silicon debugging. (Where you remove the top and passivation layer and then put probe needles on the die) The decapping is done with special hot-acid pump and a special rubber 'window'. The idea of decapping is to have a more or less complete package but have access to the silicon.
You save no space. You have the whole package but just with a hole at the top.
The bond wires where still there, so no clean die.
You could try throwing a bundle of chips in boiling acid and see what comes out. But my guess is the bond pads will not be usable anymore.
answered 26 mins ago
Oldfart
7,3332724
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
I have used de-capped IC in pico-probing for silicon debugging. (Where you remove the top and passivation layer and then put probe needles on the die) The decapping is done with special hot-acid pump and a special rubber 'window'. The idea of decapping is to have a more or less complete package but have access to the silicon.
You save no space. You have the whole package but just with a hole at the top.
The bond wires where still there, so no clean die.
You could try throwing a bundle of chips in boiling acid and see what comes out. But my guess is the bond pads will not be usable anymore.
answered 26 mins ago
Oldfart
7,3332724
I have used de-capped IC in pico-probing for silicon debugging. (Where you remove the top and passivation layer and then put probe needles on the die) The decapping is done with special hot-acid pump and a special rubber 'window'. The idea of decapping is to have a more or less complete package but have access to the silicon.
You save no space. You have the whole package but just with a hole at the top.
The bond wires where still there, so no clean die.
You could try throwing a bundle of chips in boiling acid and see what comes out. But my guess is the bond pads will not be usable anymore.
answered 26 mins ago
Oldfart
7,3332724
answered 26 mins ago
Oldfart
7,3332724
answered 26 mins ago
Oldfart
7,3332724
answered 26 mins ago
Oldfart
7,3332724
7,3332724
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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1
Not an answer, just a caveat - semiconductors can be light sensitive: Raspberry Pi Xenon Death Flash.
– Andrew Morton
1 hour ago
2
If there are a sufficient number of low volume buyers for a product that a manufacturer does not want to deal with, a wholesaler will buy large volume lots and resell to low-volume customers. If there is not a sufficient volume, potential customers "do something else."
– Charles Cowie
1 hour ago
@AndrewMorton In this hypotehtical case, the die would be stuck to a PCB along with some other components, then encapsulated. So that shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't want to leave the bare die open anyway, as the wirebonds will be very fagile.
– Jack B
1 hour ago
I would say designers first seek out CSP parts like bga before trying to get bare die.
– sstobbe
1 hour ago
@CharlesCowie AFAIK in this case that isn't happening, or the manufacturer would probably have mentioned that they provide bare dies to a reseller. The interesting thing is that we might have been willing to pay £50-100 each for the smaller packaging if we hadn't had the other option, hence my curiosity.
– Jack B
1 hour ago