Impeachment trial proceedings of a Vice President

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Since the Vice President is also president of the Senate, what mechanism is there to prevent him from presiding over his own impeachment trial?



Article I.3 makes no specific mention of this.



Does a federal law cover this situation?










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    Since the Vice President is also president of the Senate, what mechanism is there to prevent him from presiding over his own impeachment trial?



    Article I.3 makes no specific mention of this.



    Does a federal law cover this situation?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    user22945 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      up vote
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      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      5
      down vote

      favorite











      Since the Vice President is also president of the Senate, what mechanism is there to prevent him from presiding over his own impeachment trial?



      Article I.3 makes no specific mention of this.



      Does a federal law cover this situation?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      user22945 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      Since the Vice President is also president of the Senate, what mechanism is there to prevent him from presiding over his own impeachment trial?



      Article I.3 makes no specific mention of this.



      Does a federal law cover this situation?







      united-states senate vice-president






      share|improve this question









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      user22945 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      edited 10 mins ago









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          2 Answers
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          The constitution is not explicit on this point.



          If the VP is "absent" a president pro tempore is chosen (in practice the VP is nearly always absent) If the VP is on trial, this would prevent them from presiding; they would be "in the dock" so necessarily absent from the chair, and a president pro tempore would be chosen.



          Having the VP preside at their own impeachment would be absurd. The Constitution is intended to be read in accordance with Common sense. "Ain't no rule says a dog can't be president". But we are expected to use a little common sense.



          Mike Rappaort considers the omission of a direct instruction that the VP should not preside over their own trial to be a "textual mistake",




          But when one of the textual mistakes is an absurdity, one can depart.




          I think that if a VP were to be impeached, the senate would ask the chief justice to preside. They are required to do this for a Presidential impeachment trial, and I think they would want to have a Judge present for a VP trial too. The Senate is permitted to appoint anyone to preside, it does not have to be a Senator.






          share|improve this answer




















          • Surely the US follows the Nemo iudex in causa sua principle. I can't find it in official documents for this case though. For judges, it's called judicial impartiality (see canon 3c).
            – JJJ
            7 hours ago










          • +1 but I’d think they’d probably have the President Pro Tempore preside.
            – Viktor
            6 hours ago






          • 1




            (Actually, the rule requiring the president be at least thirty-five years old effectively does say a dog can’t be president...) ;)
            – KRyan
            3 hours ago











          • @KRyan But wouldn't "dog years" apply for a dog candidate?
            – Michael Richardson
            1 hour ago

















          up vote
          0
          down vote













          There is no need for federal or constitutional law excluding the VP. The Senate is a parliamentary body. It is competent to make and enforce its own rules, as provided in Article 1 Section 5 of the Constitution:




          [...] Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a member. [...]




          It is highly unlikely that any part of the judicial system would be willing to review the constitutionality of the Senate appointing someone other than the VP to preside. It would be a political question, rather than a legal question. See Nixon v. United States (no, not that Nixon) for an example of a defendant challenging a different aspect of the Senate's impeachment proceedings (and losing on this basis).



          As a result, if the Senate passed a rule by simple majority excluding the VP, that would likely be the end of it regardless of alleged unconstitutionality. Even assuming arguendo that such an appointment were unconstitutional, there would be no means of judicial review and so the appointment would stick regardless.






          share|improve this answer






















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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            5
            down vote













            The constitution is not explicit on this point.



            If the VP is "absent" a president pro tempore is chosen (in practice the VP is nearly always absent) If the VP is on trial, this would prevent them from presiding; they would be "in the dock" so necessarily absent from the chair, and a president pro tempore would be chosen.



            Having the VP preside at their own impeachment would be absurd. The Constitution is intended to be read in accordance with Common sense. "Ain't no rule says a dog can't be president". But we are expected to use a little common sense.



            Mike Rappaort considers the omission of a direct instruction that the VP should not preside over their own trial to be a "textual mistake",




            But when one of the textual mistakes is an absurdity, one can depart.




            I think that if a VP were to be impeached, the senate would ask the chief justice to preside. They are required to do this for a Presidential impeachment trial, and I think they would want to have a Judge present for a VP trial too. The Senate is permitted to appoint anyone to preside, it does not have to be a Senator.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Surely the US follows the Nemo iudex in causa sua principle. I can't find it in official documents for this case though. For judges, it's called judicial impartiality (see canon 3c).
              – JJJ
              7 hours ago










            • +1 but I’d think they’d probably have the President Pro Tempore preside.
              – Viktor
              6 hours ago






            • 1




              (Actually, the rule requiring the president be at least thirty-five years old effectively does say a dog can’t be president...) ;)
              – KRyan
              3 hours ago











            • @KRyan But wouldn't "dog years" apply for a dog candidate?
              – Michael Richardson
              1 hour ago














            up vote
            5
            down vote













            The constitution is not explicit on this point.



            If the VP is "absent" a president pro tempore is chosen (in practice the VP is nearly always absent) If the VP is on trial, this would prevent them from presiding; they would be "in the dock" so necessarily absent from the chair, and a president pro tempore would be chosen.



            Having the VP preside at their own impeachment would be absurd. The Constitution is intended to be read in accordance with Common sense. "Ain't no rule says a dog can't be president". But we are expected to use a little common sense.



            Mike Rappaort considers the omission of a direct instruction that the VP should not preside over their own trial to be a "textual mistake",




            But when one of the textual mistakes is an absurdity, one can depart.




            I think that if a VP were to be impeached, the senate would ask the chief justice to preside. They are required to do this for a Presidential impeachment trial, and I think they would want to have a Judge present for a VP trial too. The Senate is permitted to appoint anyone to preside, it does not have to be a Senator.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Surely the US follows the Nemo iudex in causa sua principle. I can't find it in official documents for this case though. For judges, it's called judicial impartiality (see canon 3c).
              – JJJ
              7 hours ago










            • +1 but I’d think they’d probably have the President Pro Tempore preside.
              – Viktor
              6 hours ago






            • 1




              (Actually, the rule requiring the president be at least thirty-five years old effectively does say a dog can’t be president...) ;)
              – KRyan
              3 hours ago











            • @KRyan But wouldn't "dog years" apply for a dog candidate?
              – Michael Richardson
              1 hour ago












            up vote
            5
            down vote










            up vote
            5
            down vote









            The constitution is not explicit on this point.



            If the VP is "absent" a president pro tempore is chosen (in practice the VP is nearly always absent) If the VP is on trial, this would prevent them from presiding; they would be "in the dock" so necessarily absent from the chair, and a president pro tempore would be chosen.



            Having the VP preside at their own impeachment would be absurd. The Constitution is intended to be read in accordance with Common sense. "Ain't no rule says a dog can't be president". But we are expected to use a little common sense.



            Mike Rappaort considers the omission of a direct instruction that the VP should not preside over their own trial to be a "textual mistake",




            But when one of the textual mistakes is an absurdity, one can depart.




            I think that if a VP were to be impeached, the senate would ask the chief justice to preside. They are required to do this for a Presidential impeachment trial, and I think they would want to have a Judge present for a VP trial too. The Senate is permitted to appoint anyone to preside, it does not have to be a Senator.






            share|improve this answer












            The constitution is not explicit on this point.



            If the VP is "absent" a president pro tempore is chosen (in practice the VP is nearly always absent) If the VP is on trial, this would prevent them from presiding; they would be "in the dock" so necessarily absent from the chair, and a president pro tempore would be chosen.



            Having the VP preside at their own impeachment would be absurd. The Constitution is intended to be read in accordance with Common sense. "Ain't no rule says a dog can't be president". But we are expected to use a little common sense.



            Mike Rappaort considers the omission of a direct instruction that the VP should not preside over their own trial to be a "textual mistake",




            But when one of the textual mistakes is an absurdity, one can depart.




            I think that if a VP were to be impeached, the senate would ask the chief justice to preside. They are required to do this for a Presidential impeachment trial, and I think they would want to have a Judge present for a VP trial too. The Senate is permitted to appoint anyone to preside, it does not have to be a Senator.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 8 hours ago









            James K

            29.9k889126




            29.9k889126











            • Surely the US follows the Nemo iudex in causa sua principle. I can't find it in official documents for this case though. For judges, it's called judicial impartiality (see canon 3c).
              – JJJ
              7 hours ago










            • +1 but I’d think they’d probably have the President Pro Tempore preside.
              – Viktor
              6 hours ago






            • 1




              (Actually, the rule requiring the president be at least thirty-five years old effectively does say a dog can’t be president...) ;)
              – KRyan
              3 hours ago











            • @KRyan But wouldn't "dog years" apply for a dog candidate?
              – Michael Richardson
              1 hour ago
















            • Surely the US follows the Nemo iudex in causa sua principle. I can't find it in official documents for this case though. For judges, it's called judicial impartiality (see canon 3c).
              – JJJ
              7 hours ago










            • +1 but I’d think they’d probably have the President Pro Tempore preside.
              – Viktor
              6 hours ago






            • 1




              (Actually, the rule requiring the president be at least thirty-five years old effectively does say a dog can’t be president...) ;)
              – KRyan
              3 hours ago











            • @KRyan But wouldn't "dog years" apply for a dog candidate?
              – Michael Richardson
              1 hour ago















            Surely the US follows the Nemo iudex in causa sua principle. I can't find it in official documents for this case though. For judges, it's called judicial impartiality (see canon 3c).
            – JJJ
            7 hours ago




            Surely the US follows the Nemo iudex in causa sua principle. I can't find it in official documents for this case though. For judges, it's called judicial impartiality (see canon 3c).
            – JJJ
            7 hours ago












            +1 but I’d think they’d probably have the President Pro Tempore preside.
            – Viktor
            6 hours ago




            +1 but I’d think they’d probably have the President Pro Tempore preside.
            – Viktor
            6 hours ago




            1




            1




            (Actually, the rule requiring the president be at least thirty-five years old effectively does say a dog can’t be president...) ;)
            – KRyan
            3 hours ago





            (Actually, the rule requiring the president be at least thirty-five years old effectively does say a dog can’t be president...) ;)
            – KRyan
            3 hours ago













            @KRyan But wouldn't "dog years" apply for a dog candidate?
            – Michael Richardson
            1 hour ago




            @KRyan But wouldn't "dog years" apply for a dog candidate?
            – Michael Richardson
            1 hour ago










            up vote
            0
            down vote













            There is no need for federal or constitutional law excluding the VP. The Senate is a parliamentary body. It is competent to make and enforce its own rules, as provided in Article 1 Section 5 of the Constitution:




            [...] Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a member. [...]




            It is highly unlikely that any part of the judicial system would be willing to review the constitutionality of the Senate appointing someone other than the VP to preside. It would be a political question, rather than a legal question. See Nixon v. United States (no, not that Nixon) for an example of a defendant challenging a different aspect of the Senate's impeachment proceedings (and losing on this basis).



            As a result, if the Senate passed a rule by simple majority excluding the VP, that would likely be the end of it regardless of alleged unconstitutionality. Even assuming arguendo that such an appointment were unconstitutional, there would be no means of judicial review and so the appointment would stick regardless.






            share|improve this answer


























              up vote
              0
              down vote













              There is no need for federal or constitutional law excluding the VP. The Senate is a parliamentary body. It is competent to make and enforce its own rules, as provided in Article 1 Section 5 of the Constitution:




              [...] Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a member. [...]




              It is highly unlikely that any part of the judicial system would be willing to review the constitutionality of the Senate appointing someone other than the VP to preside. It would be a political question, rather than a legal question. See Nixon v. United States (no, not that Nixon) for an example of a defendant challenging a different aspect of the Senate's impeachment proceedings (and losing on this basis).



              As a result, if the Senate passed a rule by simple majority excluding the VP, that would likely be the end of it regardless of alleged unconstitutionality. Even assuming arguendo that such an appointment were unconstitutional, there would be no means of judicial review and so the appointment would stick regardless.






              share|improve this answer
























                up vote
                0
                down vote










                up vote
                0
                down vote









                There is no need for federal or constitutional law excluding the VP. The Senate is a parliamentary body. It is competent to make and enforce its own rules, as provided in Article 1 Section 5 of the Constitution:




                [...] Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a member. [...]




                It is highly unlikely that any part of the judicial system would be willing to review the constitutionality of the Senate appointing someone other than the VP to preside. It would be a political question, rather than a legal question. See Nixon v. United States (no, not that Nixon) for an example of a defendant challenging a different aspect of the Senate's impeachment proceedings (and losing on this basis).



                As a result, if the Senate passed a rule by simple majority excluding the VP, that would likely be the end of it regardless of alleged unconstitutionality. Even assuming arguendo that such an appointment were unconstitutional, there would be no means of judicial review and so the appointment would stick regardless.






                share|improve this answer














                There is no need for federal or constitutional law excluding the VP. The Senate is a parliamentary body. It is competent to make and enforce its own rules, as provided in Article 1 Section 5 of the Constitution:




                [...] Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a member. [...]




                It is highly unlikely that any part of the judicial system would be willing to review the constitutionality of the Senate appointing someone other than the VP to preside. It would be a political question, rather than a legal question. See Nixon v. United States (no, not that Nixon) for an example of a defendant challenging a different aspect of the Senate's impeachment proceedings (and losing on this basis).



                As a result, if the Senate passed a rule by simple majority excluding the VP, that would likely be the end of it regardless of alleged unconstitutionality. Even assuming arguendo that such an appointment were unconstitutional, there would be no means of judicial review and so the appointment would stick regardless.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 3 hours ago

























                answered 3 hours ago









                Kevin

                675215




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