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Can perfectly aligned vertices create a ngon?
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When I got an unnecessary detail on my model that I dont need, (Like in the picture) 
I dissolve the faces of the unnecessary part and scale it by 0 at the (x/y/z) axis. It makes a perfect square. Do this operation create a huge ngon or not?
Triangulate modifier doesn't process it like a square, it also process the perfectly aligned vertices. However, that just can be how the triangulate modifier works and it can be a perfect quad anyway.
Is this a ngon, or is there another way to see the final triangulated mesh?
modeling
asked 2 hours ago
Ali Mert
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
When I got an unnecessary detail on my model that I dont need, (Like in the picture)
I dissolve the faces of the unnecessary part and scale it by 0 at the (x/y/z) axis. It makes a perfect square. Do this operation create a huge ngon or not?
Triangulate modifier doesn't process it like a square, it also process the perfectly aligned vertices. However, that just can be how the triangulate modifier works and it can be a perfect quad anyway.
Is this a ngon, or is there another way to see the final triangulated mesh?
modeling
asked 2 hours ago
Ali Mert
61
New contributor
Ali Mert is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Second screenshot is a huge Ngon, quad on the third screenshot doesn't appear to have any reason since there is huge amount of tris around it. It all depends on the purpose of the mesh (further subdividing, beveling, exporting to game engine, etc). Ngon is a face with more than 4 verts; it can be planar (all verts on the same plane) or non-planar, which is even worse
– Mr Zak
1 hour ago
Thanks for the reply. I thought second could be a quad, vertices between main four vertices has nothing to do with inside, i cant see any reason preventing it from being triangulated as a normal quad. But it is usefull anyway(for subdividing,beveling. it works as expected). I added third screenshot to check if the quad is properly subdividing into 2 triangles, apperently not.
– Ali Mert
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
When I got an unnecessary detail on my model that I dont need, (Like in the picture)
I dissolve the faces of the unnecessary part and scale it by 0 at the (x/y/z) axis. It makes a perfect square. Do this operation create a huge ngon or not?
Triangulate modifier doesn't process it like a square, it also process the perfectly aligned vertices. However, that just can be how the triangulate modifier works and it can be a perfect quad anyway.
Is this a ngon, or is there another way to see the final triangulated mesh?
modeling
asked 2 hours ago
Ali Mert
61
New contributor
Ali Mert is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
When I got an unnecessary detail on my model that I dont need, (Like in the picture)
I dissolve the faces of the unnecessary part and scale it by 0 at the (x/y/z) axis. It makes a perfect square. Do this operation create a huge ngon or not?
Triangulate modifier doesn't process it like a square, it also process the perfectly aligned vertices. However, that just can be how the triangulate modifier works and it can be a perfect quad anyway.
Is this a ngon, or is there another way to see the final triangulated mesh?
modeling
modeling
asked 2 hours ago
Ali Mert
61
New contributor
Ali Mert is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 hours ago
Ali Mert
61
New contributor
Ali Mert is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 hours ago
Ali Mert
61
New contributor
Ali Mert is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 hours ago
Ali Mert
61
asked 2 hours ago
Ali Mert
61
61
New contributor
Ali Mert is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Ali Mert is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Ali Mert is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Second screenshot is a huge Ngon, quad on the third screenshot doesn't appear to have any reason since there is huge amount of tris around it. It all depends on the purpose of the mesh (further subdividing, beveling, exporting to game engine, etc). Ngon is a face with more than 4 verts; it can be planar (all verts on the same plane) or non-planar, which is even worse
– Mr Zak
1 hour ago
Thanks for the reply. I thought second could be a quad, vertices between main four vertices has nothing to do with inside, i cant see any reason preventing it from being triangulated as a normal quad. But it is usefull anyway(for subdividing,beveling. it works as expected). I added third screenshot to check if the quad is properly subdividing into 2 triangles, apperently not.
– Ali Mert
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
Second screenshot is a huge Ngon, quad on the third screenshot doesn't appear to have any reason since there is huge amount of tris around it. It all depends on the purpose of the mesh (further subdividing, beveling, exporting to game engine, etc). Ngon is a face with more than 4 verts; it can be planar (all verts on the same plane) or non-planar, which is even worse
– Mr Zak
1 hour ago
Thanks for the reply. I thought second could be a quad, vertices between main four vertices has nothing to do with inside, i cant see any reason preventing it from being triangulated as a normal quad. But it is usefull anyway(for subdividing,beveling. it works as expected). I added third screenshot to check if the quad is properly subdividing into 2 triangles, apperently not.
– Ali Mert
1 hour ago
Second screenshot is a huge Ngon, quad on the third screenshot doesn't appear to have any reason since there is huge amount of tris around it. It all depends on the purpose of the mesh (further subdividing, beveling, exporting to game engine, etc). Ngon is a face with more than 4 verts; it can be planar (all verts on the same plane) or non-planar, which is even worse
– Mr Zak
1 hour ago
Second screenshot is a huge Ngon, quad on the third screenshot doesn't appear to have any reason since there is huge amount of tris around it. It all depends on the purpose of the mesh (further subdividing, beveling, exporting to game engine, etc). Ngon is a face with more than 4 verts; it can be planar (all verts on the same plane) or non-planar, which is even worse
– Mr Zak
1 hour ago
Thanks for the reply. I thought second could be a quad, vertices between main four vertices has nothing to do with inside, i cant see any reason preventing it from being triangulated as a normal quad. But it is usefull anyway(for subdividing,beveling. it works as expected). I added third screenshot to check if the quad is properly subdividing into 2 triangles, apperently not.
– Ali Mert
1 hour ago
Thanks for the reply. I thought second could be a quad, vertices between main four vertices has nothing to do with inside, i cant see any reason preventing it from being triangulated as a normal quad. But it is usefull anyway(for subdividing,beveling. it works as expected). I added third screenshot to check if the quad is properly subdividing into 2 triangles, apperently not.
– Ali Mert
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
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When modelers refer to an ngon, they only mean non-quad faces, really.. some include tris, some don't.. The main reason to avoid them is that under Catmull-Clark subdivision they can generate pinch-points, and irregular normals. So yes, the square shape in your first example is an ngon. Very squashed quads, or quads with a concave pair of sides, don't subdivide well, either.
On a perfectly flat surface, with a convex perimeter, that's not going to deform, there's no need to panic about them. As the the subdivided cylinder in the illustration shows, the first generation of subdivision will generate quads anyway.
However, poles, that is, vertices where more than 4 edges meet, can also generate pinch-points. As before, if they are on a perfectly flat surface they aren't anything to worry about.. but if they threaten to interfere with a smooth curvature, or make holding loops (which sharpen edges between planes) or other edge loops hard to create or maintain, you should try to avoid them. In deforming surfaces, as far as possible, they should be maneuvered into non-deforming areas.
With those things in mind, If I wanted to finish my cylinder with an ngon, I would prefer to do it with a single inset (or bevel).. as shown on the left.
answered 1 hour ago
Robin Betts
3,9631623
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
When modelers refer to an ngon, they only mean non-quad faces, really.. some include tris, some don't.. The main reason to avoid them is that under Catmull-Clark subdivision they can generate pinch-points, and irregular normals. So yes, the square shape in your first example is an ngon. Very squashed quads, or quads with a concave pair of sides, don't subdivide well, either.
On a perfectly flat surface, with a convex perimeter, that's not going to deform, there's no need to panic about them. As the the subdivided cylinder in the illustration shows, the first generation of subdivision will generate quads anyway.
However, poles, that is, vertices where more than 4 edges meet, can also generate pinch-points. As before, if they are on a perfectly flat surface they aren't anything to worry about.. but if they threaten to interfere with a smooth curvature, or make holding loops (which sharpen edges between planes) or other edge loops hard to create or maintain, you should try to avoid them. In deforming surfaces, as far as possible, they should be maneuvered into non-deforming areas.
With those things in mind, If I wanted to finish my cylinder with an ngon, I would prefer to do it with a single inset (or bevel).. as shown on the left.
answered 1 hour ago
Robin Betts
3,9631623
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
When modelers refer to an ngon, they only mean non-quad faces, really.. some include tris, some don't.. The main reason to avoid them is that under Catmull-Clark subdivision they can generate pinch-points, and irregular normals. So yes, the square shape in your first example is an ngon. Very squashed quads, or quads with a concave pair of sides, don't subdivide well, either.
On a perfectly flat surface, with a convex perimeter, that's not going to deform, there's no need to panic about them. As the the subdivided cylinder in the illustration shows, the first generation of subdivision will generate quads anyway.
However, poles, that is, vertices where more than 4 edges meet, can also generate pinch-points. As before, if they are on a perfectly flat surface they aren't anything to worry about.. but if they threaten to interfere with a smooth curvature, or make holding loops (which sharpen edges between planes) or other edge loops hard to create or maintain, you should try to avoid them. In deforming surfaces, as far as possible, they should be maneuvered into non-deforming areas.
With those things in mind, If I wanted to finish my cylinder with an ngon, I would prefer to do it with a single inset (or bevel).. as shown on the left.
answered 1 hour ago
Robin Betts
3,9631623
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
When modelers refer to an ngon, they only mean non-quad faces, really.. some include tris, some don't.. The main reason to avoid them is that under Catmull-Clark subdivision they can generate pinch-points, and irregular normals. So yes, the square shape in your first example is an ngon. Very squashed quads, or quads with a concave pair of sides, don't subdivide well, either.
On a perfectly flat surface, with a convex perimeter, that's not going to deform, there's no need to panic about them. As the the subdivided cylinder in the illustration shows, the first generation of subdivision will generate quads anyway.
However, poles, that is, vertices where more than 4 edges meet, can also generate pinch-points. As before, if they are on a perfectly flat surface they aren't anything to worry about.. but if they threaten to interfere with a smooth curvature, or make holding loops (which sharpen edges between planes) or other edge loops hard to create or maintain, you should try to avoid them. In deforming surfaces, as far as possible, they should be maneuvered into non-deforming areas.
With those things in mind, If I wanted to finish my cylinder with an ngon, I would prefer to do it with a single inset (or bevel).. as shown on the left.
answered 1 hour ago
Robin Betts
3,9631623
When modelers refer to an ngon, they only mean non-quad faces, really.. some include tris, some don't.. The main reason to avoid them is that under Catmull-Clark subdivision they can generate pinch-points, and irregular normals. So yes, the square shape in your first example is an ngon. Very squashed quads, or quads with a concave pair of sides, don't subdivide well, either.
On a perfectly flat surface, with a convex perimeter, that's not going to deform, there's no need to panic about them. As the the subdivided cylinder in the illustration shows, the first generation of subdivision will generate quads anyway.
However, poles, that is, vertices where more than 4 edges meet, can also generate pinch-points. As before, if they are on a perfectly flat surface they aren't anything to worry about.. but if they threaten to interfere with a smooth curvature, or make holding loops (which sharpen edges between planes) or other edge loops hard to create or maintain, you should try to avoid them. In deforming surfaces, as far as possible, they should be maneuvered into non-deforming areas.
With those things in mind, If I wanted to finish my cylinder with an ngon, I would prefer to do it with a single inset (or bevel).. as shown on the left.
answered 1 hour ago
Robin Betts
3,9631623
answered 1 hour ago
Robin Betts
3,9631623
answered 1 hour ago
Robin Betts
3,9631623
answered 1 hour ago
Robin Betts
3,9631623
3,9631623
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
Ali Mert is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Ali Mert is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Ali Mert is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Second screenshot is a huge Ngon, quad on the third screenshot doesn't appear to have any reason since there is huge amount of tris around it. It all depends on the purpose of the mesh (further subdividing, beveling, exporting to game engine, etc). Ngon is a face with more than 4 verts; it can be planar (all verts on the same plane) or non-planar, which is even worse
– Mr Zak
1 hour ago
Thanks for the reply. I thought second could be a quad, vertices between main four vertices has nothing to do with inside, i cant see any reason preventing it from being triangulated as a normal quad. But it is usefull anyway(for subdividing,beveling. it works as expected). I added third screenshot to check if the quad is properly subdividing into 2 triangles, apperently not.
– Ali Mert
1 hour ago