Mixing
Which air minister said (before or during WW2) that parachute troops are just a circus?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
In Chapter 32, Airborne Forces of Liddell Hart (ed), The Soviet Army, Kurt Student says, after noting the abscence of paratroop involvment in the invasion of Poland (p. 378), that
`Parachute troops are just a circus,' one of the Western air ministers
remarked.
Who was this minister? A quick google search does not turn up anything.
world-war-two military government
asked 4 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
In Chapter 32, Airborne Forces of Liddell Hart (ed), The Soviet Army, Kurt Student says, after noting the abscence of paratroop involvment in the invasion of Poland (p. 378), that
`Parachute troops are just a circus,' one of the Western air ministers
remarked.
Who was this minister? A quick google search does not turn up anything.
world-war-two military government
asked 4 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
In Chapter 32, Airborne Forces of Liddell Hart (ed), The Soviet Army, Kurt Student says, after noting the abscence of paratroop involvment in the invasion of Poland (p. 378), that
`Parachute troops are just a circus,' one of the Western air ministers
remarked.
Who was this minister? A quick google search does not turn up anything.
world-war-two military government
asked 4 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
In Chapter 32, Airborne Forces of Liddell Hart (ed), The Soviet Army, Kurt Student says, after noting the abscence of paratroop involvment in the invasion of Poland (p. 378), that
`Parachute troops are just a circus,' one of the Western air ministers
remarked.
Who was this minister? A quick google search does not turn up anything.
world-war-two military government
world-war-two military government
asked 4 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
asked 4 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
edited 17 mins ago
asked 4 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
asked 4 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
asked 4 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
630211
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
this quote wasn't by ONE minister, it was by the whole French General Staff.
page 3
The French military then dabbled briefly with the concept, creating two companies of paratroopers in 1936, but the experiment was dismissed by the French General Staff as “a circus act†and abolished before the war started.
Piehl, Hauptmann. Ganze Männer. Verlagshaus Bong & Co. Leipzig. 1943. p. 41
edited 3 hours ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
answered 3 hours ago
user50780
1667
New contributor
user50780 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Clarification: the minister was Pierre Cot.
Ganze Männer, p. 41:
Nach Angabe des ehemaligen französischen Luftfahrtministers P. Cot
wurden sie auf Veranlassung des Generalstabes als eine
,,Zirkusangelegenheit'' abgelehnt und aufgelöst.
(Google)
According to the former French Air Ministry Minister P. Cot, they were
rejected and dissolved as a "circus matter" at the instigation of the
General Staff.
So perhaps not completely clear who said it was a circus.
answered 3 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Notwithstanding the claims made in Hauptmann Piehl's Ganze Männer in 1943, and subsequently repeated by Chris Mason in 2000/2001, it seems that there is some doubt that the comment was ever made. There is a very real possibility that the claim was simply German wartime propaganda.
On the relevant history page of the French Defence Ministry, it states that France sent a contingent of officers, including Frédéric Geille, to the Soviet Union in 1935 to attend a parachute training course. On his return Geille persuaded the French High Command to create a body of French paratroopers.
On 3 October 1936 the French Air Minister Pierre Cot signed a decree which led to the creation the following year of the 601st Groupe d'infanterie de l'air (Air Infantry Group) at Reims and the 602nd Groupe d'infanterie de l'air at Baraki near Algiers.
This much agrees with the account in Piehl's book.
However, the units were not disbanded before the war started. On the contrary, in 1939, with the outbreak of war, both the 601st and 602nd returned to France, and in April 1940, an Air Marching Infantry Company was formed, under the command of Captain Henri Sauvagnac. However, the speed of the German offensive (and probably also the fact that the French High Command didn't know how to employ such a new type of fighting force) meant that the unit was never used in the Battle of France.
There is no mention of the Groupes d'infanterie de l'air being "circus acts", and it seems the units were most certainly not disbanded prior to the start of the war. Barring confirmation from an independent source, Piehl's claims do look a lot like German propaganda.
The units were withdrawn to Oran in North Africa and then Algiers where they were subsequently disbanded.
The remnants of these units would form the basis of the 1re Compagnie d'infanterie de l'air (precursor of the 1er Régiment de Chasseurs Parachutistes), formed in Algiers in early 1941.
answered 49 mins ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
The claim in the book, I think, is only that they were dissolved at some point (ie before 1943). It seems they were infantry from April 1940 and then dissolved in August.
– Tomas By
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
this quote wasn't by ONE minister, it was by the whole French General Staff.
page 3
The French military then dabbled briefly with the concept, creating two companies of paratroopers in 1936, but the experiment was dismissed by the French General Staff as “a circus act†and abolished before the war started.
Piehl, Hauptmann. Ganze Männer. Verlagshaus Bong & Co. Leipzig. 1943. p. 41
edited 3 hours ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
answered 3 hours ago
user50780
1667
New contributor
user50780 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
this quote wasn't by ONE minister, it was by the whole French General Staff.
page 3
The French military then dabbled briefly with the concept, creating two companies of paratroopers in 1936, but the experiment was dismissed by the French General Staff as “a circus act†and abolished before the war started.
Piehl, Hauptmann. Ganze Männer. Verlagshaus Bong & Co. Leipzig. 1943. p. 41
edited 3 hours ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
answered 3 hours ago
user50780
1667
New contributor
user50780 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
up vote
11
down vote
accepted
this quote wasn't by ONE minister, it was by the whole French General Staff.
page 3
The French military then dabbled briefly with the concept, creating two companies of paratroopers in 1936, but the experiment was dismissed by the French General Staff as “a circus act†and abolished before the war started.
Piehl, Hauptmann. Ganze Männer. Verlagshaus Bong & Co. Leipzig. 1943. p. 41
edited 3 hours ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
answered 3 hours ago
user50780
1667
New contributor
user50780 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
this quote wasn't by ONE minister, it was by the whole French General Staff.
page 3
The French military then dabbled briefly with the concept, creating two companies of paratroopers in 1936, but the experiment was dismissed by the French General Staff as “a circus act†and abolished before the war started.
Piehl, Hauptmann. Ganze Männer. Verlagshaus Bong & Co. Leipzig. 1943. p. 41
edited 3 hours ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
answered 3 hours ago
user50780
1667
New contributor
user50780 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 3 hours ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
edited 3 hours ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
edited 3 hours ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
39.2k4140176
answered 3 hours ago
user50780
1667
New contributor
user50780 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 3 hours ago
user50780
1667
answered 3 hours ago
user50780
1667
1667
New contributor
user50780 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
user50780 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
user50780 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Clarification: the minister was Pierre Cot.
Ganze Männer, p. 41:
Nach Angabe des ehemaligen französischen Luftfahrtministers P. Cot
wurden sie auf Veranlassung des Generalstabes als eine
,,Zirkusangelegenheit'' abgelehnt und aufgelöst.
(Google)
According to the former French Air Ministry Minister P. Cot, they were
rejected and dissolved as a "circus matter" at the instigation of the
General Staff.
So perhaps not completely clear who said it was a circus.
answered 3 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Clarification: the minister was Pierre Cot.
Ganze Männer, p. 41:
Nach Angabe des ehemaligen französischen Luftfahrtministers P. Cot
wurden sie auf Veranlassung des Generalstabes als eine
,,Zirkusangelegenheit'' abgelehnt und aufgelöst.
(Google)
According to the former French Air Ministry Minister P. Cot, they were
rejected and dissolved as a "circus matter" at the instigation of the
General Staff.
So perhaps not completely clear who said it was a circus.
answered 3 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Clarification: the minister was Pierre Cot.
Ganze Männer, p. 41:
Nach Angabe des ehemaligen französischen Luftfahrtministers P. Cot
wurden sie auf Veranlassung des Generalstabes als eine
,,Zirkusangelegenheit'' abgelehnt und aufgelöst.
(Google)
According to the former French Air Ministry Minister P. Cot, they were
rejected and dissolved as a "circus matter" at the instigation of the
General Staff.
So perhaps not completely clear who said it was a circus.
answered 3 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
Clarification: the minister was Pierre Cot.
Ganze Männer, p. 41:
Nach Angabe des ehemaligen französischen Luftfahrtministers P. Cot
wurden sie auf Veranlassung des Generalstabes als eine
,,Zirkusangelegenheit'' abgelehnt und aufgelöst.
(Google)
According to the former French Air Ministry Minister P. Cot, they were
rejected and dissolved as a "circus matter" at the instigation of the
General Staff.
So perhaps not completely clear who said it was a circus.
answered 3 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
answered 3 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
answered 3 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
answered 3 hours ago
Tomas By
630211
630211
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Notwithstanding the claims made in Hauptmann Piehl's Ganze Männer in 1943, and subsequently repeated by Chris Mason in 2000/2001, it seems that there is some doubt that the comment was ever made. There is a very real possibility that the claim was simply German wartime propaganda.
On the relevant history page of the French Defence Ministry, it states that France sent a contingent of officers, including Frédéric Geille, to the Soviet Union in 1935 to attend a parachute training course. On his return Geille persuaded the French High Command to create a body of French paratroopers.
On 3 October 1936 the French Air Minister Pierre Cot signed a decree which led to the creation the following year of the 601st Groupe d'infanterie de l'air (Air Infantry Group) at Reims and the 602nd Groupe d'infanterie de l'air at Baraki near Algiers.
This much agrees with the account in Piehl's book.
However, the units were not disbanded before the war started. On the contrary, in 1939, with the outbreak of war, both the 601st and 602nd returned to France, and in April 1940, an Air Marching Infantry Company was formed, under the command of Captain Henri Sauvagnac. However, the speed of the German offensive (and probably also the fact that the French High Command didn't know how to employ such a new type of fighting force) meant that the unit was never used in the Battle of France.
There is no mention of the Groupes d'infanterie de l'air being "circus acts", and it seems the units were most certainly not disbanded prior to the start of the war. Barring confirmation from an independent source, Piehl's claims do look a lot like German propaganda.
The units were withdrawn to Oran in North Africa and then Algiers where they were subsequently disbanded.
The remnants of these units would form the basis of the 1re Compagnie d'infanterie de l'air (precursor of the 1er Régiment de Chasseurs Parachutistes), formed in Algiers in early 1941.
answered 49 mins ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
The claim in the book, I think, is only that they were dissolved at some point (ie before 1943). It seems they were infantry from April 1940 and then dissolved in August.
– Tomas By
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Notwithstanding the claims made in Hauptmann Piehl's Ganze Männer in 1943, and subsequently repeated by Chris Mason in 2000/2001, it seems that there is some doubt that the comment was ever made. There is a very real possibility that the claim was simply German wartime propaganda.
On the relevant history page of the French Defence Ministry, it states that France sent a contingent of officers, including Frédéric Geille, to the Soviet Union in 1935 to attend a parachute training course. On his return Geille persuaded the French High Command to create a body of French paratroopers.
On 3 October 1936 the French Air Minister Pierre Cot signed a decree which led to the creation the following year of the 601st Groupe d'infanterie de l'air (Air Infantry Group) at Reims and the 602nd Groupe d'infanterie de l'air at Baraki near Algiers.
This much agrees with the account in Piehl's book.
However, the units were not disbanded before the war started. On the contrary, in 1939, with the outbreak of war, both the 601st and 602nd returned to France, and in April 1940, an Air Marching Infantry Company was formed, under the command of Captain Henri Sauvagnac. However, the speed of the German offensive (and probably also the fact that the French High Command didn't know how to employ such a new type of fighting force) meant that the unit was never used in the Battle of France.
There is no mention of the Groupes d'infanterie de l'air being "circus acts", and it seems the units were most certainly not disbanded prior to the start of the war. Barring confirmation from an independent source, Piehl's claims do look a lot like German propaganda.
The units were withdrawn to Oran in North Africa and then Algiers where they were subsequently disbanded.
The remnants of these units would form the basis of the 1re Compagnie d'infanterie de l'air (precursor of the 1er Régiment de Chasseurs Parachutistes), formed in Algiers in early 1941.
answered 49 mins ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
The claim in the book, I think, is only that they were dissolved at some point (ie before 1943). It seems they were infantry from April 1940 and then dissolved in August.
– Tomas By
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Notwithstanding the claims made in Hauptmann Piehl's Ganze Männer in 1943, and subsequently repeated by Chris Mason in 2000/2001, it seems that there is some doubt that the comment was ever made. There is a very real possibility that the claim was simply German wartime propaganda.
On the relevant history page of the French Defence Ministry, it states that France sent a contingent of officers, including Frédéric Geille, to the Soviet Union in 1935 to attend a parachute training course. On his return Geille persuaded the French High Command to create a body of French paratroopers.
On 3 October 1936 the French Air Minister Pierre Cot signed a decree which led to the creation the following year of the 601st Groupe d'infanterie de l'air (Air Infantry Group) at Reims and the 602nd Groupe d'infanterie de l'air at Baraki near Algiers.
This much agrees with the account in Piehl's book.
However, the units were not disbanded before the war started. On the contrary, in 1939, with the outbreak of war, both the 601st and 602nd returned to France, and in April 1940, an Air Marching Infantry Company was formed, under the command of Captain Henri Sauvagnac. However, the speed of the German offensive (and probably also the fact that the French High Command didn't know how to employ such a new type of fighting force) meant that the unit was never used in the Battle of France.
There is no mention of the Groupes d'infanterie de l'air being "circus acts", and it seems the units were most certainly not disbanded prior to the start of the war. Barring confirmation from an independent source, Piehl's claims do look a lot like German propaganda.
The units were withdrawn to Oran in North Africa and then Algiers where they were subsequently disbanded.
The remnants of these units would form the basis of the 1re Compagnie d'infanterie de l'air (precursor of the 1er Régiment de Chasseurs Parachutistes), formed in Algiers in early 1941.
answered 49 mins ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
Notwithstanding the claims made in Hauptmann Piehl's Ganze Männer in 1943, and subsequently repeated by Chris Mason in 2000/2001, it seems that there is some doubt that the comment was ever made. There is a very real possibility that the claim was simply German wartime propaganda.
On the relevant history page of the French Defence Ministry, it states that France sent a contingent of officers, including Frédéric Geille, to the Soviet Union in 1935 to attend a parachute training course. On his return Geille persuaded the French High Command to create a body of French paratroopers.
On 3 October 1936 the French Air Minister Pierre Cot signed a decree which led to the creation the following year of the 601st Groupe d'infanterie de l'air (Air Infantry Group) at Reims and the 602nd Groupe d'infanterie de l'air at Baraki near Algiers.
This much agrees with the account in Piehl's book.
However, the units were not disbanded before the war started. On the contrary, in 1939, with the outbreak of war, both the 601st and 602nd returned to France, and in April 1940, an Air Marching Infantry Company was formed, under the command of Captain Henri Sauvagnac. However, the speed of the German offensive (and probably also the fact that the French High Command didn't know how to employ such a new type of fighting force) meant that the unit was never used in the Battle of France.
There is no mention of the Groupes d'infanterie de l'air being "circus acts", and it seems the units were most certainly not disbanded prior to the start of the war. Barring confirmation from an independent source, Piehl's claims do look a lot like German propaganda.
The units were withdrawn to Oran in North Africa and then Algiers where they were subsequently disbanded.
The remnants of these units would form the basis of the 1re Compagnie d'infanterie de l'air (precursor of the 1er Régiment de Chasseurs Parachutistes), formed in Algiers in early 1941.
answered 49 mins ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
edited 40 mins ago
answered 49 mins ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
answered 49 mins ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
answered 49 mins ago
sempaiscuba♦
39.2k4140176
39.2k4140176
The claim in the book, I think, is only that they were dissolved at some point (ie before 1943). It seems they were infantry from April 1940 and then dissolved in August.
– Tomas By
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
The claim in the book, I think, is only that they were dissolved at some point (ie before 1943). It seems they were infantry from April 1940 and then dissolved in August.
– Tomas By
18 mins ago
The claim in the book, I think, is only that they were dissolved at some point (ie before 1943). It seems they were infantry from April 1940 and then dissolved in August.
– Tomas By
18 mins ago
The claim in the book, I think, is only that they were dissolved at some point (ie before 1943). It seems they were infantry from April 1940 and then dissolved in August.
– Tomas By
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f48227%2fwhich-air-minister-said-before-or-during-ww2-that-parachute-troops-are-just-a%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password