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When hit when down, do I take 1 or 2 death save failures?
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We're playing Horde of the Dragon Queen, and during the brutal first episode, there is a duel that can take place (spoilers in the link).
When the player loses the duel, this is what is described about the other participant:
When his foe drops he strikes one more time [and] inflicts one death roll failure on a character.
When this happened - the player marked off two death failures on their sheet. I asked them why. Here are the relevant parts of the PHB.
Dropping to 0 Hit Points
If damage reduces you to 0 hit points and fails to kill you, you fall
unconscious. This unconsciousness ends if you regain any hit points.
And later,
If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death
saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer
two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point
maximum, you suffer instant death.
Lastly, Unconcious
Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
In conclusion, any melee attack made within 5ft of me is an automatic crit. So does that mean if a bandit is being rude, and stabs me again with his puny dagger - I have a 50% chance of dying come my turn (save for help)?
Am I right in assuming that this is hand-waved in this adventure as it specifically states "one death roll failure"?
dnd-5e conditions character-death hoard-of-the-dragon-queen
edited 35 mins ago
doppelspooker♦
31.4k11134224
asked 1 hour ago
Shadow
1435
New contributor
Shadow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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up vote
8
down vote
favorite
We're playing Horde of the Dragon Queen, and during the brutal first episode, there is a duel that can take place (spoilers in the link).
When the player loses the duel, this is what is described about the other participant:
When his foe drops he strikes one more time [and] inflicts one death roll failure on a character.
When this happened - the player marked off two death failures on their sheet. I asked them why. Here are the relevant parts of the PHB.
Dropping to 0 Hit Points
If damage reduces you to 0 hit points and fails to kill you, you fall
unconscious. This unconsciousness ends if you regain any hit points.
And later,
If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death
saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer
two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point
maximum, you suffer instant death.
Lastly, Unconcious
Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
In conclusion, any melee attack made within 5ft of me is an automatic crit. So does that mean if a bandit is being rude, and stabs me again with his puny dagger - I have a 50% chance of dying come my turn (save for help)?
Am I right in assuming that this is hand-waved in this adventure as it specifically states "one death roll failure"?
dnd-5e conditions character-death hoard-of-the-dragon-queen
edited 35 mins ago
doppelspooker♦
31.4k11134224
asked 1 hour ago
Shadow
1435
New contributor
Shadow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
We're playing Horde of the Dragon Queen, and during the brutal first episode, there is a duel that can take place (spoilers in the link).
When the player loses the duel, this is what is described about the other participant:
When his foe drops he strikes one more time [and] inflicts one death roll failure on a character.
When this happened - the player marked off two death failures on their sheet. I asked them why. Here are the relevant parts of the PHB.
Dropping to 0 Hit Points
If damage reduces you to 0 hit points and fails to kill you, you fall
unconscious. This unconsciousness ends if you regain any hit points.
And later,
If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death
saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer
two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point
maximum, you suffer instant death.
Lastly, Unconcious
Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
In conclusion, any melee attack made within 5ft of me is an automatic crit. So does that mean if a bandit is being rude, and stabs me again with his puny dagger - I have a 50% chance of dying come my turn (save for help)?
Am I right in assuming that this is hand-waved in this adventure as it specifically states "one death roll failure"?
dnd-5e conditions character-death hoard-of-the-dragon-queen
edited 35 mins ago
doppelspooker♦
31.4k11134224
asked 1 hour ago
Shadow
1435
New contributor
Shadow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
We're playing Horde of the Dragon Queen, and during the brutal first episode, there is a duel that can take place (spoilers in the link).
When the player loses the duel, this is what is described about the other participant:
When his foe drops he strikes one more time [and] inflicts one death roll failure on a character.
When this happened - the player marked off two death failures on their sheet. I asked them why. Here are the relevant parts of the PHB.
Dropping to 0 Hit Points
If damage reduces you to 0 hit points and fails to kill you, you fall
unconscious. This unconsciousness ends if you regain any hit points.
And later,
If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death
saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer
two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point
maximum, you suffer instant death.
Lastly, Unconcious
Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
In conclusion, any melee attack made within 5ft of me is an automatic crit. So does that mean if a bandit is being rude, and stabs me again with his puny dagger - I have a 50% chance of dying come my turn (save for help)?
Am I right in assuming that this is hand-waved in this adventure as it specifically states "one death roll failure"?
dnd-5e conditions character-death hoard-of-the-dragon-queen
dnd-5e conditions character-death hoard-of-the-dragon-queen
edited 35 mins ago
doppelspooker♦
31.4k11134224
asked 1 hour ago
Shadow
1435
New contributor
Shadow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 35 mins ago
doppelspooker♦
31.4k11134224
asked 1 hour ago
Shadow
1435
New contributor
Shadow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 35 mins ago
doppelspooker♦
31.4k11134224
edited 35 mins ago
doppelspooker♦
31.4k11134224
edited 35 mins ago
doppelspooker♦
31.4k11134224
31.4k11134224
asked 1 hour ago
Shadow
1435
New contributor
Shadow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 1 hour ago
Shadow
1435
asked 1 hour ago
Shadow
1435
1435
New contributor
Shadow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Shadow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Shadow is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
This is an exception to the general rule, the PC takes one death save failiure.
You've accurately quoted the relevant general rules.
RAW two death save failures would normally be taken by a PC from an attacker within 5 feet while that PC is unconcious (as correctly reasoned in the question). T
So, if no one successfully intervenes before the PC's next turn (initiative order / luck may not be your friend), there is a reasonable chance for that PC to die. However, it's a 45% chance of death, rather than 50% (1-9 = failiure, 10-20 = success).
In this instance:
The attacker is capable of dealing both melee and ranged damage. So a successful strike to an unconciuous PC would normally, deal either 1 or 2 death saving throw failiures, depending on the attackers distance from their unconcious victim. However here it explicitly states that he 'he inflicts one death roll failure'.
This is a direct contradiction of the normal rule. In DnD 5e when this happens contradictions are reconciled via the rationale of 'specific beats general'. Clearly this is an extremely specific instance - it's one NPC, in one situation in one particular module who does something that appears contradictory to the general rule.
So, follow the specific direction, given here, and not the general rule.
But why break the general rule here?
The question answer is above, the following is speculation:
My hunch is that this exception was made so as not to force a certain playstyle on tables.
Whether character death is something to be encouraged or actively avoided is very table dependant. Many tables may even operate on the unspoken understanding that unconcious PCs are not attacked.
Forcing two death saving throw failiures on a PC at one of these tables could be hugely controversial (due to the relatiuvely high chance of subsequent death that you've pointed out).
Dictating that only one death saving throw failiure occurs is a kind of workaround for this. It let's the DM build up the picture of a particularly deadly / nasty NPC who will hit someone that's already down, while also vastly reducing the likelihood of a PC dying (now at 5% on the first roll - the chance of rolling a natural 1 and taking two failiures).
If your table considers PC death to be a normal part of the playing experience then there's no reason that, as a DM, you can't overrule this specific direction and hand out two death saves, as per the general rules, rather than one.
edited 32 secs ago
Slagmoth
16k14290
answered 22 mins ago
Tiggerous
6,64942964
I agree with your logic. I have played this module and it was told as he tried to leave a lasting mark rather than a killing blow, where as usually the attack is an attempt to kill.
– SeriousBri
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
This is an exception to the general rule, the PC takes one death save failiure.
You've accurately quoted the relevant general rules.
RAW two death save failures would normally be taken by a PC from an attacker within 5 feet while that PC is unconcious (as correctly reasoned in the question). T
So, if no one successfully intervenes before the PC's next turn (initiative order / luck may not be your friend), there is a reasonable chance for that PC to die. However, it's a 45% chance of death, rather than 50% (1-9 = failiure, 10-20 = success).
In this instance:
The attacker is capable of dealing both melee and ranged damage. So a successful strike to an unconciuous PC would normally, deal either 1 or 2 death saving throw failiures, depending on the attackers distance from their unconcious victim. However here it explicitly states that he 'he inflicts one death roll failure'.
This is a direct contradiction of the normal rule. In DnD 5e when this happens contradictions are reconciled via the rationale of 'specific beats general'. Clearly this is an extremely specific instance - it's one NPC, in one situation in one particular module who does something that appears contradictory to the general rule.
So, follow the specific direction, given here, and not the general rule.
But why break the general rule here?
The question answer is above, the following is speculation:
My hunch is that this exception was made so as not to force a certain playstyle on tables.
Whether character death is something to be encouraged or actively avoided is very table dependant. Many tables may even operate on the unspoken understanding that unconcious PCs are not attacked.
Forcing two death saving throw failiures on a PC at one of these tables could be hugely controversial (due to the relatiuvely high chance of subsequent death that you've pointed out).
Dictating that only one death saving throw failiure occurs is a kind of workaround for this. It let's the DM build up the picture of a particularly deadly / nasty NPC who will hit someone that's already down, while also vastly reducing the likelihood of a PC dying (now at 5% on the first roll - the chance of rolling a natural 1 and taking two failiures).
If your table considers PC death to be a normal part of the playing experience then there's no reason that, as a DM, you can't overrule this specific direction and hand out two death saves, as per the general rules, rather than one.
edited 32 secs ago
Slagmoth
16k14290
answered 22 mins ago
Tiggerous
6,64942964
I agree with your logic. I have played this module and it was told as he tried to leave a lasting mark rather than a killing blow, where as usually the attack is an attempt to kill.
– SeriousBri
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
This is an exception to the general rule, the PC takes one death save failiure.
You've accurately quoted the relevant general rules.
RAW two death save failures would normally be taken by a PC from an attacker within 5 feet while that PC is unconcious (as correctly reasoned in the question). T
So, if no one successfully intervenes before the PC's next turn (initiative order / luck may not be your friend), there is a reasonable chance for that PC to die. However, it's a 45% chance of death, rather than 50% (1-9 = failiure, 10-20 = success).
In this instance:
The attacker is capable of dealing both melee and ranged damage. So a successful strike to an unconciuous PC would normally, deal either 1 or 2 death saving throw failiures, depending on the attackers distance from their unconcious victim. However here it explicitly states that he 'he inflicts one death roll failure'.
This is a direct contradiction of the normal rule. In DnD 5e when this happens contradictions are reconciled via the rationale of 'specific beats general'. Clearly this is an extremely specific instance - it's one NPC, in one situation in one particular module who does something that appears contradictory to the general rule.
So, follow the specific direction, given here, and not the general rule.
But why break the general rule here?
The question answer is above, the following is speculation:
My hunch is that this exception was made so as not to force a certain playstyle on tables.
Whether character death is something to be encouraged or actively avoided is very table dependant. Many tables may even operate on the unspoken understanding that unconcious PCs are not attacked.
Forcing two death saving throw failiures on a PC at one of these tables could be hugely controversial (due to the relatiuvely high chance of subsequent death that you've pointed out).
Dictating that only one death saving throw failiure occurs is a kind of workaround for this. It let's the DM build up the picture of a particularly deadly / nasty NPC who will hit someone that's already down, while also vastly reducing the likelihood of a PC dying (now at 5% on the first roll - the chance of rolling a natural 1 and taking two failiures).
If your table considers PC death to be a normal part of the playing experience then there's no reason that, as a DM, you can't overrule this specific direction and hand out two death saves, as per the general rules, rather than one.
edited 32 secs ago
Slagmoth
16k14290
answered 22 mins ago
Tiggerous
6,64942964
I agree with your logic. I have played this module and it was told as he tried to leave a lasting mark rather than a killing blow, where as usually the attack is an attempt to kill.
– SeriousBri
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
This is an exception to the general rule, the PC takes one death save failiure.
You've accurately quoted the relevant general rules.
RAW two death save failures would normally be taken by a PC from an attacker within 5 feet while that PC is unconcious (as correctly reasoned in the question). T
So, if no one successfully intervenes before the PC's next turn (initiative order / luck may not be your friend), there is a reasonable chance for that PC to die. However, it's a 45% chance of death, rather than 50% (1-9 = failiure, 10-20 = success).
In this instance:
The attacker is capable of dealing both melee and ranged damage. So a successful strike to an unconciuous PC would normally, deal either 1 or 2 death saving throw failiures, depending on the attackers distance from their unconcious victim. However here it explicitly states that he 'he inflicts one death roll failure'.
This is a direct contradiction of the normal rule. In DnD 5e when this happens contradictions are reconciled via the rationale of 'specific beats general'. Clearly this is an extremely specific instance - it's one NPC, in one situation in one particular module who does something that appears contradictory to the general rule.
So, follow the specific direction, given here, and not the general rule.
But why break the general rule here?
The question answer is above, the following is speculation:
My hunch is that this exception was made so as not to force a certain playstyle on tables.
Whether character death is something to be encouraged or actively avoided is very table dependant. Many tables may even operate on the unspoken understanding that unconcious PCs are not attacked.
Forcing two death saving throw failiures on a PC at one of these tables could be hugely controversial (due to the relatiuvely high chance of subsequent death that you've pointed out).
Dictating that only one death saving throw failiure occurs is a kind of workaround for this. It let's the DM build up the picture of a particularly deadly / nasty NPC who will hit someone that's already down, while also vastly reducing the likelihood of a PC dying (now at 5% on the first roll - the chance of rolling a natural 1 and taking two failiures).
If your table considers PC death to be a normal part of the playing experience then there's no reason that, as a DM, you can't overrule this specific direction and hand out two death saves, as per the general rules, rather than one.
edited 32 secs ago
Slagmoth
16k14290
answered 22 mins ago
Tiggerous
6,64942964
This is an exception to the general rule, the PC takes one death save failiure.
You've accurately quoted the relevant general rules.
RAW two death save failures would normally be taken by a PC from an attacker within 5 feet while that PC is unconcious (as correctly reasoned in the question). T
So, if no one successfully intervenes before the PC's next turn (initiative order / luck may not be your friend), there is a reasonable chance for that PC to die. However, it's a 45% chance of death, rather than 50% (1-9 = failiure, 10-20 = success).
In this instance:
The attacker is capable of dealing both melee and ranged damage. So a successful strike to an unconciuous PC would normally, deal either 1 or 2 death saving throw failiures, depending on the attackers distance from their unconcious victim. However here it explicitly states that he 'he inflicts one death roll failure'.
This is a direct contradiction of the normal rule. In DnD 5e when this happens contradictions are reconciled via the rationale of 'specific beats general'. Clearly this is an extremely specific instance - it's one NPC, in one situation in one particular module who does something that appears contradictory to the general rule.
So, follow the specific direction, given here, and not the general rule.
But why break the general rule here?
The question answer is above, the following is speculation:
My hunch is that this exception was made so as not to force a certain playstyle on tables.
Whether character death is something to be encouraged or actively avoided is very table dependant. Many tables may even operate on the unspoken understanding that unconcious PCs are not attacked.
Forcing two death saving throw failiures on a PC at one of these tables could be hugely controversial (due to the relatiuvely high chance of subsequent death that you've pointed out).
Dictating that only one death saving throw failiure occurs is a kind of workaround for this. It let's the DM build up the picture of a particularly deadly / nasty NPC who will hit someone that's already down, while also vastly reducing the likelihood of a PC dying (now at 5% on the first roll - the chance of rolling a natural 1 and taking two failiures).
If your table considers PC death to be a normal part of the playing experience then there's no reason that, as a DM, you can't overrule this specific direction and hand out two death saves, as per the general rules, rather than one.
edited 32 secs ago
Slagmoth
16k14290
answered 22 mins ago
Tiggerous
6,64942964
edited 32 secs ago
Slagmoth
16k14290
edited 32 secs ago
Slagmoth
16k14290
edited 32 secs ago
Slagmoth
16k14290
16k14290
answered 22 mins ago
Tiggerous
6,64942964
answered 22 mins ago
Tiggerous
6,64942964
answered 22 mins ago
Tiggerous
6,64942964
6,64942964
I agree with your logic. I have played this module and it was told as he tried to leave a lasting mark rather than a killing blow, where as usually the attack is an attempt to kill.
– SeriousBri
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
I agree with your logic. I have played this module and it was told as he tried to leave a lasting mark rather than a killing blow, where as usually the attack is an attempt to kill.
– SeriousBri
18 mins ago
I agree with your logic. I have played this module and it was told as he tried to leave a lasting mark rather than a killing blow, where as usually the attack is an attempt to kill.
– SeriousBri
18 mins ago
I agree with your logic. I have played this module and it was told as he tried to leave a lasting mark rather than a killing blow, where as usually the attack is an attempt to kill.
– SeriousBri
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Shadow is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Shadow is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Shadow is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Shadow is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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