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Since Greece wants FYROM to be named “North Macedoniaâ€, why don't they make an example call their own region “South Macedoniaâ€?
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Greece refuses to recognise the name "Republic of Macedonia" because this country is only a part of historical Macedonia, the other part being a region in Greece (along with very small parts in other neighbouring countries).
With current administrative borders, Greece does not have a region directly called "Macedonia", but seems to have what is called the Decentralized Administration of Macedonia and Thrace (link)
This region however only has south of historical Macedonia and west of historical Thrace, FYROM having north of historical Macedonia and Turkey having east of historical Thrace. Why don't Greece reflects this in the region's names in order to make an example for what FYROM should do?
international-relations terminology greece macedonia
edited 5 hours ago
Niteesh Shanbog
394
asked 8 hours ago
Bregalad
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up vote
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Greece refuses to recognise the name "Republic of Macedonia" because this country is only a part of historical Macedonia, the other part being a region in Greece (along with very small parts in other neighbouring countries).
With current administrative borders, Greece does not have a region directly called "Macedonia", but seems to have what is called the Decentralized Administration of Macedonia and Thrace (link)
This region however only has south of historical Macedonia and west of historical Thrace, FYROM having north of historical Macedonia and Turkey having east of historical Thrace. Why don't Greece reflects this in the region's names in order to make an example for what FYROM should do?
international-relations terminology greece macedonia
edited 5 hours ago
Niteesh Shanbog
394
asked 8 hours ago
Bregalad
3,54331550
This might seem rational to the rest of us. But the Greeks have a lot of national pride invested in this, and a good pinch of machismo, which prevents them from doing what might be perceived as backing down.
– RedSonja
6 hours ago
@RedSonja A lot of machismo actually, but there's a bit more to the story, if I may interest you in my answer
– rath
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Greece refuses to recognise the name "Republic of Macedonia" because this country is only a part of historical Macedonia, the other part being a region in Greece (along with very small parts in other neighbouring countries).
With current administrative borders, Greece does not have a region directly called "Macedonia", but seems to have what is called the Decentralized Administration of Macedonia and Thrace (link)
This region however only has south of historical Macedonia and west of historical Thrace, FYROM having north of historical Macedonia and Turkey having east of historical Thrace. Why don't Greece reflects this in the region's names in order to make an example for what FYROM should do?
international-relations terminology greece macedonia
edited 5 hours ago
Niteesh Shanbog
394
asked 8 hours ago
Bregalad
3,54331550
Greece refuses to recognise the name "Republic of Macedonia" because this country is only a part of historical Macedonia, the other part being a region in Greece (along with very small parts in other neighbouring countries).
With current administrative borders, Greece does not have a region directly called "Macedonia", but seems to have what is called the Decentralized Administration of Macedonia and Thrace (link)
This region however only has south of historical Macedonia and west of historical Thrace, FYROM having north of historical Macedonia and Turkey having east of historical Thrace. Why don't Greece reflects this in the region's names in order to make an example for what FYROM should do?
international-relations terminology greece macedonia
international-relations terminology greece macedonia
edited 5 hours ago
Niteesh Shanbog
394
asked 8 hours ago
Bregalad
3,54331550
edited 5 hours ago
Niteesh Shanbog
394
asked 8 hours ago
Bregalad
3,54331550
edited 5 hours ago
Niteesh Shanbog
394
edited 5 hours ago
Niteesh Shanbog
394
edited 5 hours ago
Niteesh Shanbog
394
394
asked 8 hours ago
Bregalad
3,54331550
asked 8 hours ago
Bregalad
3,54331550
asked 8 hours ago
Bregalad
3,54331550
3,54331550
This might seem rational to the rest of us. But the Greeks have a lot of national pride invested in this, and a good pinch of machismo, which prevents them from doing what might be perceived as backing down.
– RedSonja
6 hours ago
@RedSonja A lot of machismo actually, but there's a bit more to the story, if I may interest you in my answer
– rath
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
This might seem rational to the rest of us. But the Greeks have a lot of national pride invested in this, and a good pinch of machismo, which prevents them from doing what might be perceived as backing down.
– RedSonja
6 hours ago
@RedSonja A lot of machismo actually, but there's a bit more to the story, if I may interest you in my answer
– rath
1 hour ago
This might seem rational to the rest of us. But the Greeks have a lot of national pride invested in this, and a good pinch of machismo, which prevents them from doing what might be perceived as backing down.
– RedSonja
6 hours ago
This might seem rational to the rest of us. But the Greeks have a lot of national pride invested in this, and a good pinch of machismo, which prevents them from doing what might be perceived as backing down.
– RedSonja
6 hours ago
@RedSonja A lot of machismo actually, but there's a bit more to the story, if I may interest you in my answer
– rath
1 hour ago
@RedSonja A lot of machismo actually, but there's a bit more to the story, if I may interest you in my answer
– rath
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
8
down vote
From the point of view of many of the Greeks making the objection, "Macedonia" should be the land on Philip of Macedon and Alexander the Great. The core of this territory lies in modern Greece, so for lots of them, it would be "central" or "true" Macedonia, rather than South Macedonia. Unfortunately for them, the name continued as a Roman Province, a Byzantine region, and a slavonic ethnic identity. The map at the top of the Wikipedia page on the naming dispute does a good job of showing the different regions.
answered 7 hours ago
origimbo
9,39922338
1
+1 I think this is the point of view of both sides, not just the Greeks: FYROM touts Alexander the Great as its national hero, not some Byzantine nobody.
– rath
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Because FYROM wants to change its name and Greece doesn't.
Macedonians of Greece object to being called South Macedonians all of a sudden because that's not their identity - as far as they're concerned they live in a region called Makedonia and consider themselves Makedones, and have been doing so for as long as anyone cares to remember.
Not to mention that most other Greeks perceive this as an attack on and usurpation of their national identity. Both countries fly the Vergina Star and claim Alexander the Great as their hero and ancestor. What is at stake here is the claim to the ancient legacy, not some Byzantine or Roman region.
Finally, South Macedonia happens to be most of historical Macedonia by today's borders, and most of it is located in Greece. Greeks find it extremely difficult to accept a naming change either way when they hold most of the territory with the contested legacy, and when their neighbours to the north have none of the historically important sites.
Any notion of "backing down" will not be received well at home, where sentiments are running high. The current Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, knows that the country is in a precarious position where nobody likes them at the moment, and being inflexible on the naming issue won't win him any favours abroad, so he has a very delicate balancing act to perform: to play with a weak hand internationally, while having the minimum amount of people calling him a traitor at home.
Additionally Tsipras' party is left-wing pro-European and it has to maintain its pro-EU stance even at the face of a negative outcome, in a country where Europe is not thought of in kind terms at the moment.
Finally, Greeks are aware that the outcome will set a precedent for other neighbouring states to claim their piece of their homeland. The most likely candidates are Albania and Turkey. Albania will want to claim parts of Epirus, and Turkey will of course go for Thrace. This is not at all beyond the pale as Johannes Hahn, a member of some European committee, is already talking about restructuring the Greco-Albanian border and Turkey seems more agitated than usual as of late.
Bulgaria, historically an antagonist, is quite friendly these days and is supporting Greece's stance on the naming issue, as they too find themselves facing territorial claims from their common neighbour that stem from the same nationalist idea which sparked the naming debate in the first place. Serbia is also considered an ally, largely due to Orthodox Christianity, and Greek support during the Kossovo war.
Apart from those two nations, Greece doesn't have very many friends at the moment, and sign of weakness will be paid for by future generations.
answered 2 hours ago
rath
1315
New contributor
rath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
8
down vote
From the point of view of many of the Greeks making the objection, "Macedonia" should be the land on Philip of Macedon and Alexander the Great. The core of this territory lies in modern Greece, so for lots of them, it would be "central" or "true" Macedonia, rather than South Macedonia. Unfortunately for them, the name continued as a Roman Province, a Byzantine region, and a slavonic ethnic identity. The map at the top of the Wikipedia page on the naming dispute does a good job of showing the different regions.
answered 7 hours ago
origimbo
9,39922338
1
+1 I think this is the point of view of both sides, not just the Greeks: FYROM touts Alexander the Great as its national hero, not some Byzantine nobody.
– rath
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
From the point of view of many of the Greeks making the objection, "Macedonia" should be the land on Philip of Macedon and Alexander the Great. The core of this territory lies in modern Greece, so for lots of them, it would be "central" or "true" Macedonia, rather than South Macedonia. Unfortunately for them, the name continued as a Roman Province, a Byzantine region, and a slavonic ethnic identity. The map at the top of the Wikipedia page on the naming dispute does a good job of showing the different regions.
answered 7 hours ago
origimbo
9,39922338
1
+1 I think this is the point of view of both sides, not just the Greeks: FYROM touts Alexander the Great as its national hero, not some Byzantine nobody.
– rath
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
From the point of view of many of the Greeks making the objection, "Macedonia" should be the land on Philip of Macedon and Alexander the Great. The core of this territory lies in modern Greece, so for lots of them, it would be "central" or "true" Macedonia, rather than South Macedonia. Unfortunately for them, the name continued as a Roman Province, a Byzantine region, and a slavonic ethnic identity. The map at the top of the Wikipedia page on the naming dispute does a good job of showing the different regions.
answered 7 hours ago
origimbo
9,39922338
From the point of view of many of the Greeks making the objection, "Macedonia" should be the land on Philip of Macedon and Alexander the Great. The core of this territory lies in modern Greece, so for lots of them, it would be "central" or "true" Macedonia, rather than South Macedonia. Unfortunately for them, the name continued as a Roman Province, a Byzantine region, and a slavonic ethnic identity. The map at the top of the Wikipedia page on the naming dispute does a good job of showing the different regions.
answered 7 hours ago
origimbo
9,39922338
answered 7 hours ago
origimbo
9,39922338
answered 7 hours ago
origimbo
9,39922338
answered 7 hours ago
origimbo
9,39922338
9,39922338
1
+1 I think this is the point of view of both sides, not just the Greeks: FYROM touts Alexander the Great as its national hero, not some Byzantine nobody.
– rath
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
+1 I think this is the point of view of both sides, not just the Greeks: FYROM touts Alexander the Great as its national hero, not some Byzantine nobody.
– rath
2 hours ago
1
1
+1 I think this is the point of view of both sides, not just the Greeks: FYROM touts Alexander the Great as its national hero, not some Byzantine nobody.
– rath
2 hours ago
+1 I think this is the point of view of both sides, not just the Greeks: FYROM touts Alexander the Great as its national hero, not some Byzantine nobody.
– rath
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Because FYROM wants to change its name and Greece doesn't.
Macedonians of Greece object to being called South Macedonians all of a sudden because that's not their identity - as far as they're concerned they live in a region called Makedonia and consider themselves Makedones, and have been doing so for as long as anyone cares to remember.
Not to mention that most other Greeks perceive this as an attack on and usurpation of their national identity. Both countries fly the Vergina Star and claim Alexander the Great as their hero and ancestor. What is at stake here is the claim to the ancient legacy, not some Byzantine or Roman region.
Finally, South Macedonia happens to be most of historical Macedonia by today's borders, and most of it is located in Greece. Greeks find it extremely difficult to accept a naming change either way when they hold most of the territory with the contested legacy, and when their neighbours to the north have none of the historically important sites.
Any notion of "backing down" will not be received well at home, where sentiments are running high. The current Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, knows that the country is in a precarious position where nobody likes them at the moment, and being inflexible on the naming issue won't win him any favours abroad, so he has a very delicate balancing act to perform: to play with a weak hand internationally, while having the minimum amount of people calling him a traitor at home.
Additionally Tsipras' party is left-wing pro-European and it has to maintain its pro-EU stance even at the face of a negative outcome, in a country where Europe is not thought of in kind terms at the moment.
Finally, Greeks are aware that the outcome will set a precedent for other neighbouring states to claim their piece of their homeland. The most likely candidates are Albania and Turkey. Albania will want to claim parts of Epirus, and Turkey will of course go for Thrace. This is not at all beyond the pale as Johannes Hahn, a member of some European committee, is already talking about restructuring the Greco-Albanian border and Turkey seems more agitated than usual as of late.
Bulgaria, historically an antagonist, is quite friendly these days and is supporting Greece's stance on the naming issue, as they too find themselves facing territorial claims from their common neighbour that stem from the same nationalist idea which sparked the naming debate in the first place. Serbia is also considered an ally, largely due to Orthodox Christianity, and Greek support during the Kossovo war.
Apart from those two nations, Greece doesn't have very many friends at the moment, and sign of weakness will be paid for by future generations.
answered 2 hours ago
rath
1315
New contributor
rath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Because FYROM wants to change its name and Greece doesn't.
Macedonians of Greece object to being called South Macedonians all of a sudden because that's not their identity - as far as they're concerned they live in a region called Makedonia and consider themselves Makedones, and have been doing so for as long as anyone cares to remember.
Not to mention that most other Greeks perceive this as an attack on and usurpation of their national identity. Both countries fly the Vergina Star and claim Alexander the Great as their hero and ancestor. What is at stake here is the claim to the ancient legacy, not some Byzantine or Roman region.
Finally, South Macedonia happens to be most of historical Macedonia by today's borders, and most of it is located in Greece. Greeks find it extremely difficult to accept a naming change either way when they hold most of the territory with the contested legacy, and when their neighbours to the north have none of the historically important sites.
Any notion of "backing down" will not be received well at home, where sentiments are running high. The current Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, knows that the country is in a precarious position where nobody likes them at the moment, and being inflexible on the naming issue won't win him any favours abroad, so he has a very delicate balancing act to perform: to play with a weak hand internationally, while having the minimum amount of people calling him a traitor at home.
Additionally Tsipras' party is left-wing pro-European and it has to maintain its pro-EU stance even at the face of a negative outcome, in a country where Europe is not thought of in kind terms at the moment.
Finally, Greeks are aware that the outcome will set a precedent for other neighbouring states to claim their piece of their homeland. The most likely candidates are Albania and Turkey. Albania will want to claim parts of Epirus, and Turkey will of course go for Thrace. This is not at all beyond the pale as Johannes Hahn, a member of some European committee, is already talking about restructuring the Greco-Albanian border and Turkey seems more agitated than usual as of late.
Bulgaria, historically an antagonist, is quite friendly these days and is supporting Greece's stance on the naming issue, as they too find themselves facing territorial claims from their common neighbour that stem from the same nationalist idea which sparked the naming debate in the first place. Serbia is also considered an ally, largely due to Orthodox Christianity, and Greek support during the Kossovo war.
Apart from those two nations, Greece doesn't have very many friends at the moment, and sign of weakness will be paid for by future generations.
answered 2 hours ago
rath
1315
New contributor
rath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Because FYROM wants to change its name and Greece doesn't.
Macedonians of Greece object to being called South Macedonians all of a sudden because that's not their identity - as far as they're concerned they live in a region called Makedonia and consider themselves Makedones, and have been doing so for as long as anyone cares to remember.
Not to mention that most other Greeks perceive this as an attack on and usurpation of their national identity. Both countries fly the Vergina Star and claim Alexander the Great as their hero and ancestor. What is at stake here is the claim to the ancient legacy, not some Byzantine or Roman region.
Finally, South Macedonia happens to be most of historical Macedonia by today's borders, and most of it is located in Greece. Greeks find it extremely difficult to accept a naming change either way when they hold most of the territory with the contested legacy, and when their neighbours to the north have none of the historically important sites.
Any notion of "backing down" will not be received well at home, where sentiments are running high. The current Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, knows that the country is in a precarious position where nobody likes them at the moment, and being inflexible on the naming issue won't win him any favours abroad, so he has a very delicate balancing act to perform: to play with a weak hand internationally, while having the minimum amount of people calling him a traitor at home.
Additionally Tsipras' party is left-wing pro-European and it has to maintain its pro-EU stance even at the face of a negative outcome, in a country where Europe is not thought of in kind terms at the moment.
Finally, Greeks are aware that the outcome will set a precedent for other neighbouring states to claim their piece of their homeland. The most likely candidates are Albania and Turkey. Albania will want to claim parts of Epirus, and Turkey will of course go for Thrace. This is not at all beyond the pale as Johannes Hahn, a member of some European committee, is already talking about restructuring the Greco-Albanian border and Turkey seems more agitated than usual as of late.
Bulgaria, historically an antagonist, is quite friendly these days and is supporting Greece's stance on the naming issue, as they too find themselves facing territorial claims from their common neighbour that stem from the same nationalist idea which sparked the naming debate in the first place. Serbia is also considered an ally, largely due to Orthodox Christianity, and Greek support during the Kossovo war.
Apart from those two nations, Greece doesn't have very many friends at the moment, and sign of weakness will be paid for by future generations.
answered 2 hours ago
rath
1315
New contributor
rath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Because FYROM wants to change its name and Greece doesn't.
Macedonians of Greece object to being called South Macedonians all of a sudden because that's not their identity - as far as they're concerned they live in a region called Makedonia and consider themselves Makedones, and have been doing so for as long as anyone cares to remember.
Not to mention that most other Greeks perceive this as an attack on and usurpation of their national identity. Both countries fly the Vergina Star and claim Alexander the Great as their hero and ancestor. What is at stake here is the claim to the ancient legacy, not some Byzantine or Roman region.
Finally, South Macedonia happens to be most of historical Macedonia by today's borders, and most of it is located in Greece. Greeks find it extremely difficult to accept a naming change either way when they hold most of the territory with the contested legacy, and when their neighbours to the north have none of the historically important sites.
Any notion of "backing down" will not be received well at home, where sentiments are running high. The current Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, knows that the country is in a precarious position where nobody likes them at the moment, and being inflexible on the naming issue won't win him any favours abroad, so he has a very delicate balancing act to perform: to play with a weak hand internationally, while having the minimum amount of people calling him a traitor at home.
Additionally Tsipras' party is left-wing pro-European and it has to maintain its pro-EU stance even at the face of a negative outcome, in a country where Europe is not thought of in kind terms at the moment.
Finally, Greeks are aware that the outcome will set a precedent for other neighbouring states to claim their piece of their homeland. The most likely candidates are Albania and Turkey. Albania will want to claim parts of Epirus, and Turkey will of course go for Thrace. This is not at all beyond the pale as Johannes Hahn, a member of some European committee, is already talking about restructuring the Greco-Albanian border and Turkey seems more agitated than usual as of late.
Bulgaria, historically an antagonist, is quite friendly these days and is supporting Greece's stance on the naming issue, as they too find themselves facing territorial claims from their common neighbour that stem from the same nationalist idea which sparked the naming debate in the first place. Serbia is also considered an ally, largely due to Orthodox Christianity, and Greek support during the Kossovo war.
Apart from those two nations, Greece doesn't have very many friends at the moment, and sign of weakness will be paid for by future generations.
answered 2 hours ago
rath
1315
New contributor
rath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 2 hours ago
rath
1315
New contributor
rath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 2 hours ago
rath
1315
answered 2 hours ago
rath
1315
1315
New contributor
rath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
rath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
rath is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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This might seem rational to the rest of us. But the Greeks have a lot of national pride invested in this, and a good pinch of machismo, which prevents them from doing what might be perceived as backing down.
– RedSonja
6 hours ago
@RedSonja A lot of machismo actually, but there's a bit more to the story, if I may interest you in my answer
– rath
1 hour ago