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What's the closest RAW build possible to the Gray Mouser in 5e?
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I am of course referring to the legendary figure of Fritz Lieber's Lankhmar series (one of the things Gary Gygax said was his inspiration to invent D&D).
I am assuming this character is so off-the-hook awesome that I cannot see any way to make him using strictly RAW, but what's the closest we can get?
Some things to keep in mind:
- His acrobatics, stealth and persuasion are incredible (especially acrobatics)
- His swordsmanship is fantastic, in a finesse-sort-of-way (rapier?), and when combined with a successful acrobatic move he can hit almost anything
- He is devastating with a sling, e.g. can knock someone out or do great damage (a thing which seems outside the RAW in 5e)
- He has a custom-made bodysuit that enhances stealth, and he is very hard to hit in melee (almost un-hittable!) despite that he has no armor or shield beyond this
- He has some low-level arcane spellcasting abilities
- While he is not immune to being charmed, he is fairly resistant to it
Those are the essentials, and here are nice-to-haves:
- Race is human
- Magic is limited mainly to illusions (less magic than an Arcane Trickster has)
- Acrobatic-based swordplay (to-hit improves somehow when using acrobatics)
- Can use a sling effectively at longer range, compared to a typical character
There may be other features I am overlooking from Lieber's material, but those are the high points. What's the closest you could come in RAW?
dnd-5e character-creation
edited 14 mins ago
David Coffron
29.7k2103202
asked 13 hours ago
BigJamey
995
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BigJamey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
1
I am of course referring to the legendary figure of Fritz Lieber's Lankhmar series (one of the things Gary Gygax said was his inspiration to invent D&D).
I am assuming this character is so off-the-hook awesome that I cannot see any way to make him using strictly RAW, but what's the closest we can get?
Some things to keep in mind:
- His acrobatics, stealth and persuasion are incredible (especially acrobatics)
- His swordsmanship is fantastic, in a finesse-sort-of-way (rapier?), and when combined with a successful acrobatic move he can hit almost anything
- He is devastating with a sling, e.g. can knock someone out or do great damage (a thing which seems outside the RAW in 5e)
- He has a custom-made bodysuit that enhances stealth, and he is very hard to hit in melee (almost un-hittable!) despite that he has no armor or shield beyond this
- He has some low-level arcane spellcasting abilities
- While he is not immune to being charmed, he is fairly resistant to it
Those are the essentials, and here are nice-to-haves:
- Race is human
- Magic is limited mainly to illusions (less magic than an Arcane Trickster has)
- Acrobatic-based swordplay (to-hit improves somehow when using acrobatics)
- Can use a sling effectively at longer range, compared to a typical character
There may be other features I am overlooking from Lieber's material, but those are the high points. What's the closest you could come in RAW?
dnd-5e character-creation
edited 14 mins ago
David Coffron
29.7k2103202
asked 13 hours ago
BigJamey
995
New contributor
BigJamey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
I've re-cast the question. Please consider taking it off hold? This is one of just a few characters who inspired the whole game, for crying out loud, and I want to ask how to make the character. There has to be some form of the question that is fit for this forum. Please help improve the question rather than close it, for heaven's sake.
– BigJamey
12 hours ago
1
@BigJamey If you include more about the character within the post itself, and describe what you need in a bit more specific terms than "this character," it's probably a workable character build question.
– Jason_c_o
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
1
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
1
1
I am of course referring to the legendary figure of Fritz Lieber's Lankhmar series (one of the things Gary Gygax said was his inspiration to invent D&D).
I am assuming this character is so off-the-hook awesome that I cannot see any way to make him using strictly RAW, but what's the closest we can get?
Some things to keep in mind:
- His acrobatics, stealth and persuasion are incredible (especially acrobatics)
- His swordsmanship is fantastic, in a finesse-sort-of-way (rapier?), and when combined with a successful acrobatic move he can hit almost anything
- He is devastating with a sling, e.g. can knock someone out or do great damage (a thing which seems outside the RAW in 5e)
- He has a custom-made bodysuit that enhances stealth, and he is very hard to hit in melee (almost un-hittable!) despite that he has no armor or shield beyond this
- He has some low-level arcane spellcasting abilities
- While he is not immune to being charmed, he is fairly resistant to it
Those are the essentials, and here are nice-to-haves:
- Race is human
- Magic is limited mainly to illusions (less magic than an Arcane Trickster has)
- Acrobatic-based swordplay (to-hit improves somehow when using acrobatics)
- Can use a sling effectively at longer range, compared to a typical character
There may be other features I am overlooking from Lieber's material, but those are the high points. What's the closest you could come in RAW?
dnd-5e character-creation
edited 14 mins ago
David Coffron
29.7k2103202
asked 13 hours ago
BigJamey
995
New contributor
BigJamey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I am of course referring to the legendary figure of Fritz Lieber's Lankhmar series (one of the things Gary Gygax said was his inspiration to invent D&D).
I am assuming this character is so off-the-hook awesome that I cannot see any way to make him using strictly RAW, but what's the closest we can get?
Some things to keep in mind:
- His acrobatics, stealth and persuasion are incredible (especially acrobatics)
- His swordsmanship is fantastic, in a finesse-sort-of-way (rapier?), and when combined with a successful acrobatic move he can hit almost anything
- He is devastating with a sling, e.g. can knock someone out or do great damage (a thing which seems outside the RAW in 5e)
- He has a custom-made bodysuit that enhances stealth, and he is very hard to hit in melee (almost un-hittable!) despite that he has no armor or shield beyond this
- He has some low-level arcane spellcasting abilities
- While he is not immune to being charmed, he is fairly resistant to it
Those are the essentials, and here are nice-to-haves:
- Race is human
- Magic is limited mainly to illusions (less magic than an Arcane Trickster has)
- Acrobatic-based swordplay (to-hit improves somehow when using acrobatics)
- Can use a sling effectively at longer range, compared to a typical character
There may be other features I am overlooking from Lieber's material, but those are the high points. What's the closest you could come in RAW?
dnd-5e character-creation
dnd-5e character-creation
edited 14 mins ago
David Coffron
29.7k2103202
asked 13 hours ago
BigJamey
995
New contributor
BigJamey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 14 mins ago
David Coffron
29.7k2103202
asked 13 hours ago
BigJamey
995
New contributor
BigJamey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 14 mins ago
David Coffron
29.7k2103202
edited 14 mins ago
David Coffron
29.7k2103202
edited 14 mins ago
David Coffron
29.7k2103202
29.7k2103202
asked 13 hours ago
BigJamey
995
New contributor
BigJamey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 13 hours ago
BigJamey
995
asked 13 hours ago
BigJamey
995
995
New contributor
BigJamey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
BigJamey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
BigJamey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
I've re-cast the question. Please consider taking it off hold? This is one of just a few characters who inspired the whole game, for crying out loud, and I want to ask how to make the character. There has to be some form of the question that is fit for this forum. Please help improve the question rather than close it, for heaven's sake.
– BigJamey
12 hours ago
1
@BigJamey If you include more about the character within the post itself, and describe what you need in a bit more specific terms than "this character," it's probably a workable character build question.
– Jason_c_o
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
I've re-cast the question. Please consider taking it off hold? This is one of just a few characters who inspired the whole game, for crying out loud, and I want to ask how to make the character. There has to be some form of the question that is fit for this forum. Please help improve the question rather than close it, for heaven's sake.
– BigJamey
12 hours ago
1
@BigJamey If you include more about the character within the post itself, and describe what you need in a bit more specific terms than "this character," it's probably a workable character build question.
– Jason_c_o
10 hours ago
1
1
I've re-cast the question. Please consider taking it off hold? This is one of just a few characters who inspired the whole game, for crying out loud, and I want to ask how to make the character. There has to be some form of the question that is fit for this forum. Please help improve the question rather than close it, for heaven's sake.
– BigJamey
12 hours ago
I've re-cast the question. Please consider taking it off hold? This is one of just a few characters who inspired the whole game, for crying out loud, and I want to ask how to make the character. There has to be some form of the question that is fit for this forum. Please help improve the question rather than close it, for heaven's sake.
– BigJamey
12 hours ago
1
1
@BigJamey If you include more about the character within the post itself, and describe what you need in a bit more specific terms than "this character," it's probably a workable character build question.
– Jason_c_o
10 hours ago
@BigJamey If you include more about the character within the post itself, and describe what you need in a bit more specific terms than "this character," it's probably a workable character build question.
– Jason_c_o
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
16
down vote
A high-level elf rogue arcane trickster
According to the Q&A with Gary Gygax, part 5 forum thread in 2004:
The Thief was based on Jack of Shadows (Zelazny) and Cugel (Vance) with a touch of REH’s Conan, rather than solely on the Gray Mouser. Mouser was too good a swordsman to serve as the pure model.
However, Gygax was talking about the D&D of his era, and the rules have changed much since then. Based on your requirements, the Rogue class (which in Gygax's D&D was called the Thief) with the Arcane Trickster subclass is a suitable match:
Acrobatics, stealth and persuasion: All three of these are literally class skills for the rogue.
Fantastic swordsmanship: The rogue is proficient with the rapier, as well as shortswords and longswords. D&D 5e no longer gives the fighter a higher base attack bonus than the rogue.
Devastating with a sling: The rogue has sling proficiency (as a simple weapon) and can gain Sneak Attack if he has advantage on the attack roll, even if he is not hidden from the opponent. A high level rogue can deal substantial damage with sneak attack.
Custom bodysuit and unhittable: He would require magic items for this in D&D: magical leather armor, a cloak of displacement, and a naturally very high or magically-enhanced Dexterity. For a high-level character, these magic items are plausible. An elf would also have naturally increased Dexterity.
Low-level spellcasting: The Arcane Trickster roguish archetype has low-level spellcasting.
Charm resistance: A high-level character with high Wisdom would have high saves, and magic items may enhance that further. If it's not required to make the character a human, an elf of any sort is resistant but not immune to being charmed.
answered 6 hours ago
Quadratic Wizard
23k377132
2
You may also want to add that a variant human could gain the Resilient (Wisdom) feat to bolster it's Wisdom saves too. (Or just through class leveling since rogues get an extra ASI). This makes Fey Ancestry less important
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
1
I would suggest, being a long time fan of Lieber's Swords and Sorcery duo from Lankhmar, that making Mouser an Elf is utterly at odds with the character. (Your mechanical points all considered; they are well thought out ...) vHuman is the better idea
– KorvinStarmast
4 hours ago
4
It's also worth mentioning that a rogue has Expertise for up to 4 skills by 6th level, which can account for being a ridiculously good acrobat/etc., beyond the realm of normal characters; Uncanny Dodge (and later, Elusive) may account for being nigh-unhittable thanks to acrobatics; and Slippery Mind contributes to being hard to charm. Depending on how much magic you want, it might fit better to go with the Thief archetype and use the Magic Initiate feat or a level dip to gain some minor spellcasting.
– Darth Pseudonym
2 hours ago
1
Good answer but I agree with all the above comments. (1) ideally he's human, not elf, so another way of being charm-resistant is good. (2) Arcane Trickster is actually more magic than he needs; the Mouser mainly just uses illusions for deceit and distraction, but has good concentration maintaining them in melee, which fits with beefing up Wis, and a wiz-dip or the MI feat. (3) Per the Gygax quote, yeah, he's too-good a swordsman, and the main "essence" I feel is still missing here is how his swordsmanship improves when he adds his acrobatics. (4) Lieber's Mouser has longer range with a sling.
– BigJamey
2 hours ago
1
@BigJamey Concentration uses Constitution not Wisdom. You might want to include these specific goals (human/less magic/acrobatic based swordplay/long range) in the question
– David Coffron
53 mins ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
16
down vote
A high-level elf rogue arcane trickster
According to the Q&A with Gary Gygax, part 5 forum thread in 2004:
The Thief was based on Jack of Shadows (Zelazny) and Cugel (Vance) with a touch of REH’s Conan, rather than solely on the Gray Mouser. Mouser was too good a swordsman to serve as the pure model.
However, Gygax was talking about the D&D of his era, and the rules have changed much since then. Based on your requirements, the Rogue class (which in Gygax's D&D was called the Thief) with the Arcane Trickster subclass is a suitable match:
Acrobatics, stealth and persuasion: All three of these are literally class skills for the rogue.
Fantastic swordsmanship: The rogue is proficient with the rapier, as well as shortswords and longswords. D&D 5e no longer gives the fighter a higher base attack bonus than the rogue.
Devastating with a sling: The rogue has sling proficiency (as a simple weapon) and can gain Sneak Attack if he has advantage on the attack roll, even if he is not hidden from the opponent. A high level rogue can deal substantial damage with sneak attack.
Custom bodysuit and unhittable: He would require magic items for this in D&D: magical leather armor, a cloak of displacement, and a naturally very high or magically-enhanced Dexterity. For a high-level character, these magic items are plausible. An elf would also have naturally increased Dexterity.
Low-level spellcasting: The Arcane Trickster roguish archetype has low-level spellcasting.
Charm resistance: A high-level character with high Wisdom would have high saves, and magic items may enhance that further. If it's not required to make the character a human, an elf of any sort is resistant but not immune to being charmed.
answered 6 hours ago
Quadratic Wizard
23k377132
2
You may also want to add that a variant human could gain the Resilient (Wisdom) feat to bolster it's Wisdom saves too. (Or just through class leveling since rogues get an extra ASI). This makes Fey Ancestry less important
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
1
I would suggest, being a long time fan of Lieber's Swords and Sorcery duo from Lankhmar, that making Mouser an Elf is utterly at odds with the character. (Your mechanical points all considered; they are well thought out ...) vHuman is the better idea
– KorvinStarmast
4 hours ago
4
It's also worth mentioning that a rogue has Expertise for up to 4 skills by 6th level, which can account for being a ridiculously good acrobat/etc., beyond the realm of normal characters; Uncanny Dodge (and later, Elusive) may account for being nigh-unhittable thanks to acrobatics; and Slippery Mind contributes to being hard to charm. Depending on how much magic you want, it might fit better to go with the Thief archetype and use the Magic Initiate feat or a level dip to gain some minor spellcasting.
– Darth Pseudonym
2 hours ago
1
Good answer but I agree with all the above comments. (1) ideally he's human, not elf, so another way of being charm-resistant is good. (2) Arcane Trickster is actually more magic than he needs; the Mouser mainly just uses illusions for deceit and distraction, but has good concentration maintaining them in melee, which fits with beefing up Wis, and a wiz-dip or the MI feat. (3) Per the Gygax quote, yeah, he's too-good a swordsman, and the main "essence" I feel is still missing here is how his swordsmanship improves when he adds his acrobatics. (4) Lieber's Mouser has longer range with a sling.
– BigJamey
2 hours ago
1
@BigJamey Concentration uses Constitution not Wisdom. You might want to include these specific goals (human/less magic/acrobatic based swordplay/long range) in the question
– David Coffron
53 mins ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
16
down vote
A high-level elf rogue arcane trickster
According to the Q&A with Gary Gygax, part 5 forum thread in 2004:
The Thief was based on Jack of Shadows (Zelazny) and Cugel (Vance) with a touch of REH’s Conan, rather than solely on the Gray Mouser. Mouser was too good a swordsman to serve as the pure model.
However, Gygax was talking about the D&D of his era, and the rules have changed much since then. Based on your requirements, the Rogue class (which in Gygax's D&D was called the Thief) with the Arcane Trickster subclass is a suitable match:
Acrobatics, stealth and persuasion: All three of these are literally class skills for the rogue.
Fantastic swordsmanship: The rogue is proficient with the rapier, as well as shortswords and longswords. D&D 5e no longer gives the fighter a higher base attack bonus than the rogue.
Devastating with a sling: The rogue has sling proficiency (as a simple weapon) and can gain Sneak Attack if he has advantage on the attack roll, even if he is not hidden from the opponent. A high level rogue can deal substantial damage with sneak attack.
Custom bodysuit and unhittable: He would require magic items for this in D&D: magical leather armor, a cloak of displacement, and a naturally very high or magically-enhanced Dexterity. For a high-level character, these magic items are plausible. An elf would also have naturally increased Dexterity.
Low-level spellcasting: The Arcane Trickster roguish archetype has low-level spellcasting.
Charm resistance: A high-level character with high Wisdom would have high saves, and magic items may enhance that further. If it's not required to make the character a human, an elf of any sort is resistant but not immune to being charmed.
answered 6 hours ago
Quadratic Wizard
23k377132
2
You may also want to add that a variant human could gain the Resilient (Wisdom) feat to bolster it's Wisdom saves too. (Or just through class leveling since rogues get an extra ASI). This makes Fey Ancestry less important
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
1
I would suggest, being a long time fan of Lieber's Swords and Sorcery duo from Lankhmar, that making Mouser an Elf is utterly at odds with the character. (Your mechanical points all considered; they are well thought out ...) vHuman is the better idea
– KorvinStarmast
4 hours ago
4
It's also worth mentioning that a rogue has Expertise for up to 4 skills by 6th level, which can account for being a ridiculously good acrobat/etc., beyond the realm of normal characters; Uncanny Dodge (and later, Elusive) may account for being nigh-unhittable thanks to acrobatics; and Slippery Mind contributes to being hard to charm. Depending on how much magic you want, it might fit better to go with the Thief archetype and use the Magic Initiate feat or a level dip to gain some minor spellcasting.
– Darth Pseudonym
2 hours ago
1
Good answer but I agree with all the above comments. (1) ideally he's human, not elf, so another way of being charm-resistant is good. (2) Arcane Trickster is actually more magic than he needs; the Mouser mainly just uses illusions for deceit and distraction, but has good concentration maintaining them in melee, which fits with beefing up Wis, and a wiz-dip or the MI feat. (3) Per the Gygax quote, yeah, he's too-good a swordsman, and the main "essence" I feel is still missing here is how his swordsmanship improves when he adds his acrobatics. (4) Lieber's Mouser has longer range with a sling.
– BigJamey
2 hours ago
1
@BigJamey Concentration uses Constitution not Wisdom. You might want to include these specific goals (human/less magic/acrobatic based swordplay/long range) in the question
– David Coffron
53 mins ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
16
down vote
up vote
16
down vote
A high-level elf rogue arcane trickster
According to the Q&A with Gary Gygax, part 5 forum thread in 2004:
The Thief was based on Jack of Shadows (Zelazny) and Cugel (Vance) with a touch of REH’s Conan, rather than solely on the Gray Mouser. Mouser was too good a swordsman to serve as the pure model.
However, Gygax was talking about the D&D of his era, and the rules have changed much since then. Based on your requirements, the Rogue class (which in Gygax's D&D was called the Thief) with the Arcane Trickster subclass is a suitable match:
Acrobatics, stealth and persuasion: All three of these are literally class skills for the rogue.
Fantastic swordsmanship: The rogue is proficient with the rapier, as well as shortswords and longswords. D&D 5e no longer gives the fighter a higher base attack bonus than the rogue.
Devastating with a sling: The rogue has sling proficiency (as a simple weapon) and can gain Sneak Attack if he has advantage on the attack roll, even if he is not hidden from the opponent. A high level rogue can deal substantial damage with sneak attack.
Custom bodysuit and unhittable: He would require magic items for this in D&D: magical leather armor, a cloak of displacement, and a naturally very high or magically-enhanced Dexterity. For a high-level character, these magic items are plausible. An elf would also have naturally increased Dexterity.
Low-level spellcasting: The Arcane Trickster roguish archetype has low-level spellcasting.
Charm resistance: A high-level character with high Wisdom would have high saves, and magic items may enhance that further. If it's not required to make the character a human, an elf of any sort is resistant but not immune to being charmed.
answered 6 hours ago
Quadratic Wizard
23k377132
A high-level elf rogue arcane trickster
According to the Q&A with Gary Gygax, part 5 forum thread in 2004:
The Thief was based on Jack of Shadows (Zelazny) and Cugel (Vance) with a touch of REH’s Conan, rather than solely on the Gray Mouser. Mouser was too good a swordsman to serve as the pure model.
However, Gygax was talking about the D&D of his era, and the rules have changed much since then. Based on your requirements, the Rogue class (which in Gygax's D&D was called the Thief) with the Arcane Trickster subclass is a suitable match:
Acrobatics, stealth and persuasion: All three of these are literally class skills for the rogue.
Fantastic swordsmanship: The rogue is proficient with the rapier, as well as shortswords and longswords. D&D 5e no longer gives the fighter a higher base attack bonus than the rogue.
Devastating with a sling: The rogue has sling proficiency (as a simple weapon) and can gain Sneak Attack if he has advantage on the attack roll, even if he is not hidden from the opponent. A high level rogue can deal substantial damage with sneak attack.
Custom bodysuit and unhittable: He would require magic items for this in D&D: magical leather armor, a cloak of displacement, and a naturally very high or magically-enhanced Dexterity. For a high-level character, these magic items are plausible. An elf would also have naturally increased Dexterity.
Low-level spellcasting: The Arcane Trickster roguish archetype has low-level spellcasting.
Charm resistance: A high-level character with high Wisdom would have high saves, and magic items may enhance that further. If it's not required to make the character a human, an elf of any sort is resistant but not immune to being charmed.
answered 6 hours ago
Quadratic Wizard
23k377132
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
Quadratic Wizard
23k377132
answered 6 hours ago
Quadratic Wizard
23k377132
answered 6 hours ago
Quadratic Wizard
23k377132
23k377132
2
You may also want to add that a variant human could gain the Resilient (Wisdom) feat to bolster it's Wisdom saves too. (Or just through class leveling since rogues get an extra ASI). This makes Fey Ancestry less important
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
1
I would suggest, being a long time fan of Lieber's Swords and Sorcery duo from Lankhmar, that making Mouser an Elf is utterly at odds with the character. (Your mechanical points all considered; they are well thought out ...) vHuman is the better idea
– KorvinStarmast
4 hours ago
4
It's also worth mentioning that a rogue has Expertise for up to 4 skills by 6th level, which can account for being a ridiculously good acrobat/etc., beyond the realm of normal characters; Uncanny Dodge (and later, Elusive) may account for being nigh-unhittable thanks to acrobatics; and Slippery Mind contributes to being hard to charm. Depending on how much magic you want, it might fit better to go with the Thief archetype and use the Magic Initiate feat or a level dip to gain some minor spellcasting.
– Darth Pseudonym
2 hours ago
1
Good answer but I agree with all the above comments. (1) ideally he's human, not elf, so another way of being charm-resistant is good. (2) Arcane Trickster is actually more magic than he needs; the Mouser mainly just uses illusions for deceit and distraction, but has good concentration maintaining them in melee, which fits with beefing up Wis, and a wiz-dip or the MI feat. (3) Per the Gygax quote, yeah, he's too-good a swordsman, and the main "essence" I feel is still missing here is how his swordsmanship improves when he adds his acrobatics. (4) Lieber's Mouser has longer range with a sling.
– BigJamey
2 hours ago
1
@BigJamey Concentration uses Constitution not Wisdom. You might want to include these specific goals (human/less magic/acrobatic based swordplay/long range) in the question
– David Coffron
53 mins ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
2
You may also want to add that a variant human could gain the Resilient (Wisdom) feat to bolster it's Wisdom saves too. (Or just through class leveling since rogues get an extra ASI). This makes Fey Ancestry less important
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
1
I would suggest, being a long time fan of Lieber's Swords and Sorcery duo from Lankhmar, that making Mouser an Elf is utterly at odds with the character. (Your mechanical points all considered; they are well thought out ...) vHuman is the better idea
– KorvinStarmast
4 hours ago
4
It's also worth mentioning that a rogue has Expertise for up to 4 skills by 6th level, which can account for being a ridiculously good acrobat/etc., beyond the realm of normal characters; Uncanny Dodge (and later, Elusive) may account for being nigh-unhittable thanks to acrobatics; and Slippery Mind contributes to being hard to charm. Depending on how much magic you want, it might fit better to go with the Thief archetype and use the Magic Initiate feat or a level dip to gain some minor spellcasting.
– Darth Pseudonym
2 hours ago
1
Good answer but I agree with all the above comments. (1) ideally he's human, not elf, so another way of being charm-resistant is good. (2) Arcane Trickster is actually more magic than he needs; the Mouser mainly just uses illusions for deceit and distraction, but has good concentration maintaining them in melee, which fits with beefing up Wis, and a wiz-dip or the MI feat. (3) Per the Gygax quote, yeah, he's too-good a swordsman, and the main "essence" I feel is still missing here is how his swordsmanship improves when he adds his acrobatics. (4) Lieber's Mouser has longer range with a sling.
– BigJamey
2 hours ago
1
@BigJamey Concentration uses Constitution not Wisdom. You might want to include these specific goals (human/less magic/acrobatic based swordplay/long range) in the question
– David Coffron
53 mins ago
2
2
You may also want to add that a variant human could gain the Resilient (Wisdom) feat to bolster it's Wisdom saves too. (Or just through class leveling since rogues get an extra ASI). This makes Fey Ancestry less important
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
You may also want to add that a variant human could gain the Resilient (Wisdom) feat to bolster it's Wisdom saves too. (Or just through class leveling since rogues get an extra ASI). This makes Fey Ancestry less important
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
1
1
I would suggest, being a long time fan of Lieber's Swords and Sorcery duo from Lankhmar, that making Mouser an Elf is utterly at odds with the character. (Your mechanical points all considered; they are well thought out ...) vHuman is the better idea
– KorvinStarmast
4 hours ago
I would suggest, being a long time fan of Lieber's Swords and Sorcery duo from Lankhmar, that making Mouser an Elf is utterly at odds with the character. (Your mechanical points all considered; they are well thought out ...) vHuman is the better idea
– KorvinStarmast
4 hours ago
4
4
It's also worth mentioning that a rogue has Expertise for up to 4 skills by 6th level, which can account for being a ridiculously good acrobat/etc., beyond the realm of normal characters; Uncanny Dodge (and later, Elusive) may account for being nigh-unhittable thanks to acrobatics; and Slippery Mind contributes to being hard to charm. Depending on how much magic you want, it might fit better to go with the Thief archetype and use the Magic Initiate feat or a level dip to gain some minor spellcasting.
– Darth Pseudonym
2 hours ago
It's also worth mentioning that a rogue has Expertise for up to 4 skills by 6th level, which can account for being a ridiculously good acrobat/etc., beyond the realm of normal characters; Uncanny Dodge (and later, Elusive) may account for being nigh-unhittable thanks to acrobatics; and Slippery Mind contributes to being hard to charm. Depending on how much magic you want, it might fit better to go with the Thief archetype and use the Magic Initiate feat or a level dip to gain some minor spellcasting.
– Darth Pseudonym
2 hours ago
1
1
Good answer but I agree with all the above comments. (1) ideally he's human, not elf, so another way of being charm-resistant is good. (2) Arcane Trickster is actually more magic than he needs; the Mouser mainly just uses illusions for deceit and distraction, but has good concentration maintaining them in melee, which fits with beefing up Wis, and a wiz-dip or the MI feat. (3) Per the Gygax quote, yeah, he's too-good a swordsman, and the main "essence" I feel is still missing here is how his swordsmanship improves when he adds his acrobatics. (4) Lieber's Mouser has longer range with a sling.
– BigJamey
2 hours ago
Good answer but I agree with all the above comments. (1) ideally he's human, not elf, so another way of being charm-resistant is good. (2) Arcane Trickster is actually more magic than he needs; the Mouser mainly just uses illusions for deceit and distraction, but has good concentration maintaining them in melee, which fits with beefing up Wis, and a wiz-dip or the MI feat. (3) Per the Gygax quote, yeah, he's too-good a swordsman, and the main "essence" I feel is still missing here is how his swordsmanship improves when he adds his acrobatics. (4) Lieber's Mouser has longer range with a sling.
– BigJamey
2 hours ago
1
1
@BigJamey Concentration uses Constitution not Wisdom. You might want to include these specific goals (human/less magic/acrobatic based swordplay/long range) in the question
– David Coffron
53 mins ago
@BigJamey Concentration uses Constitution not Wisdom. You might want to include these specific goals (human/less magic/acrobatic based swordplay/long range) in the question
– David Coffron
53 mins ago
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1
I've re-cast the question. Please consider taking it off hold? This is one of just a few characters who inspired the whole game, for crying out loud, and I want to ask how to make the character. There has to be some form of the question that is fit for this forum. Please help improve the question rather than close it, for heaven's sake.
– BigJamey
12 hours ago
1
@BigJamey If you include more about the character within the post itself, and describe what you need in a bit more specific terms than "this character," it's probably a workable character build question.
– Jason_c_o
10 hours ago