Mixing
Monster Skill Ranks don’t match RAW?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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I've had this problem for awhile now. When deconstructing monsters from the various Monster Manuals (to modify or add templates etc) their skill ranks do not add up properly.
Am I missing something, doing something wrong or is this simply an example where the Primary Source rule is changing the monsters without stating it's doing so?
As an example, let's take the loyal dog Monster Manual pg 271.
His stat block shows:
Abilities:
Str 13, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills:
Jump +7, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +1*
Dogs Have +4 Racial Bonus to Jump
* Dogs have +4 Racial Bonus to Survival when tracking by scent.
Animals get (2 +int modifier skill points per level, minimum 1) (×4 for 1st HD). Due to the animal's negative Int modifier, he gets 1×4=4 skill points for 1st HD.
It's easier to word this question by building the skill stats from the ground up rather than deconstructing so I'll do that here just to make it read easier:
Spot: +1 Wis, +2 Alertness =+3 (before spending ranks)
Listen: +1 Wis, +2 Alertness =+3 (before spending ranks)
Survival: +1 Wis=+1 (before spending ranks)
Jump: +1Str, +4 Racial Bonus AND +4 speed (untyped) bonus since he has a 40' movement. (See link for explanation if your unfamiliar)=+9 (before spending ranks)
So, taking all the info above, it appears that the dog spent 2 points in spot & his last 2 in listen and a negative rank in jump!?
The only other explanation I can see is that they ignored the speed bonus to jump while giving him an extra 3 skill points to spend.
So, back to my question:
Am I missing something, doing something wrong or is this simply an example where the Primary Source rule is changing the monsters without stating it's doing so?
dnd-3.5e monsters monster-design skill-points
edited 4 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26639919
asked 6 hours ago
Ben-Jamin
4,40342464
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I've had this problem for awhile now. When deconstructing monsters from the various Monster Manuals (to modify or add templates etc) their skill ranks do not add up properly.
Am I missing something, doing something wrong or is this simply an example where the Primary Source rule is changing the monsters without stating it's doing so?
As an example, let's take the loyal dog Monster Manual pg 271.
His stat block shows:
Abilities:
Str 13, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills:
Jump +7, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +1*
Dogs Have +4 Racial Bonus to Jump
* Dogs have +4 Racial Bonus to Survival when tracking by scent.
Animals get (2 +int modifier skill points per level, minimum 1) (×4 for 1st HD). Due to the animal's negative Int modifier, he gets 1×4=4 skill points for 1st HD.
It's easier to word this question by building the skill stats from the ground up rather than deconstructing so I'll do that here just to make it read easier:
Spot: +1 Wis, +2 Alertness =+3 (before spending ranks)
Listen: +1 Wis, +2 Alertness =+3 (before spending ranks)
Survival: +1 Wis=+1 (before spending ranks)
Jump: +1Str, +4 Racial Bonus AND +4 speed (untyped) bonus since he has a 40' movement. (See link for explanation if your unfamiliar)=+9 (before spending ranks)
So, taking all the info above, it appears that the dog spent 2 points in spot & his last 2 in listen and a negative rank in jump!?
The only other explanation I can see is that they ignored the speed bonus to jump while giving him an extra 3 skill points to spend.
So, back to my question:
Am I missing something, doing something wrong or is this simply an example where the Primary Source rule is changing the monsters without stating it's doing so?
dnd-3.5e monsters monster-design skill-points
edited 4 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26639919
asked 6 hours ago
Ben-Jamin
4,40342464
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I've had this problem for awhile now. When deconstructing monsters from the various Monster Manuals (to modify or add templates etc) their skill ranks do not add up properly.
Am I missing something, doing something wrong or is this simply an example where the Primary Source rule is changing the monsters without stating it's doing so?
As an example, let's take the loyal dog Monster Manual pg 271.
His stat block shows:
Abilities:
Str 13, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills:
Jump +7, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +1*
Dogs Have +4 Racial Bonus to Jump
* Dogs have +4 Racial Bonus to Survival when tracking by scent.
Animals get (2 +int modifier skill points per level, minimum 1) (×4 for 1st HD). Due to the animal's negative Int modifier, he gets 1×4=4 skill points for 1st HD.
It's easier to word this question by building the skill stats from the ground up rather than deconstructing so I'll do that here just to make it read easier:
Spot: +1 Wis, +2 Alertness =+3 (before spending ranks)
Listen: +1 Wis, +2 Alertness =+3 (before spending ranks)
Survival: +1 Wis=+1 (before spending ranks)
Jump: +1Str, +4 Racial Bonus AND +4 speed (untyped) bonus since he has a 40' movement. (See link for explanation if your unfamiliar)=+9 (before spending ranks)
So, taking all the info above, it appears that the dog spent 2 points in spot & his last 2 in listen and a negative rank in jump!?
The only other explanation I can see is that they ignored the speed bonus to jump while giving him an extra 3 skill points to spend.
So, back to my question:
Am I missing something, doing something wrong or is this simply an example where the Primary Source rule is changing the monsters without stating it's doing so?
dnd-3.5e monsters monster-design skill-points
edited 4 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26639919
asked 6 hours ago
Ben-Jamin
4,40342464
I've had this problem for awhile now. When deconstructing monsters from the various Monster Manuals (to modify or add templates etc) their skill ranks do not add up properly.
Am I missing something, doing something wrong or is this simply an example where the Primary Source rule is changing the monsters without stating it's doing so?
As an example, let's take the loyal dog Monster Manual pg 271.
His stat block shows:
Abilities:
Str 13, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills:
Jump +7, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +1*
Dogs Have +4 Racial Bonus to Jump
* Dogs have +4 Racial Bonus to Survival when tracking by scent.
Animals get (2 +int modifier skill points per level, minimum 1) (×4 for 1st HD). Due to the animal's negative Int modifier, he gets 1×4=4 skill points for 1st HD.
It's easier to word this question by building the skill stats from the ground up rather than deconstructing so I'll do that here just to make it read easier:
Spot: +1 Wis, +2 Alertness =+3 (before spending ranks)
Listen: +1 Wis, +2 Alertness =+3 (before spending ranks)
Survival: +1 Wis=+1 (before spending ranks)
Jump: +1Str, +4 Racial Bonus AND +4 speed (untyped) bonus since he has a 40' movement. (See link for explanation if your unfamiliar)=+9 (before spending ranks)
So, taking all the info above, it appears that the dog spent 2 points in spot & his last 2 in listen and a negative rank in jump!?
The only other explanation I can see is that they ignored the speed bonus to jump while giving him an extra 3 skill points to spend.
So, back to my question:
Am I missing something, doing something wrong or is this simply an example where the Primary Source rule is changing the monsters without stating it's doing so?
dnd-3.5e monsters monster-design skill-points
dnd-3.5e monsters monster-design skill-points
edited 4 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26639919
asked 6 hours ago
Ben-Jamin
4,40342464
edited 4 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26639919
asked 6 hours ago
Ben-Jamin
4,40342464
edited 4 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26639919
edited 4 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26639919
edited 4 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26639919
201k26639919
asked 6 hours ago
Ben-Jamin
4,40342464
asked 6 hours ago
Ben-Jamin
4,40342464
asked 6 hours ago
Ben-Jamin
4,40342464
4,40342464
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
You are correct that a great many creatures' skill points are inaccurately spent (cf. this question). Other errors, too, exist in creatures' stat blocks (cf. this question). Errors like these can remain uncorrected even by errata and reprints like the premium edition Monster Manual (2012)) that include stealth errata: its dog entry has the dog's Jump skill bonus also as +7.
If you tinker long enough, you'll likely find some error or important omission in—at a guess—about every third monster. (That's what it feels like to me, anyway, and I tinker with a lot of monsters.) And, of course, the more complex the monster, the more likely it is that there's an error somewhere. You've to adjust things and move on. Then, if you're feeling generous, share the error with your players and have a laugh. You may even get lucky and the topic will arise naturally in another venue—like on a Q & A site, for instance—allowing you to share your findings more widely
If this minutiae really interests you, Cooper's Compendium of Corrected Creatures (with which I am not affiliated but which I endorse) goes through the entire SRD and attempts to fix many of the more egregious errors therein, and Corrected Creatures does, indeed, change the dog's Jump skill bonus to +9.
answered 3 hours ago
Hey I Can Chan
138k12240583
THIS! It's not about the "Dog" it's about that it feels like Every.Other.Entry. is wrong! I've been thinking I was just dumb and missing something because there is no way that there are that many wrong entries..or, rather I guess there are...thanks for the links!
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
and ofcourse, since they never bothered to fix them in the erratas they released...why publish an errata if you're not going to fix the wrong entries?
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Creature statblocks had errors (or, if being generous, unmentioned specific-trumps-general exceptions) all the time in 3.5e. They are not generally worth trying to back-calculate.
I cannot see anything wrong, at a glance, with your reasoning. It certainly seems like the dog’s Jump check is off.
answered 4 hours ago
KRyan
211k26528915
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
You are correct that a great many creatures' skill points are inaccurately spent (cf. this question). Other errors, too, exist in creatures' stat blocks (cf. this question). Errors like these can remain uncorrected even by errata and reprints like the premium edition Monster Manual (2012)) that include stealth errata: its dog entry has the dog's Jump skill bonus also as +7.
If you tinker long enough, you'll likely find some error or important omission in—at a guess—about every third monster. (That's what it feels like to me, anyway, and I tinker with a lot of monsters.) And, of course, the more complex the monster, the more likely it is that there's an error somewhere. You've to adjust things and move on. Then, if you're feeling generous, share the error with your players and have a laugh. You may even get lucky and the topic will arise naturally in another venue—like on a Q & A site, for instance—allowing you to share your findings more widely
If this minutiae really interests you, Cooper's Compendium of Corrected Creatures (with which I am not affiliated but which I endorse) goes through the entire SRD and attempts to fix many of the more egregious errors therein, and Corrected Creatures does, indeed, change the dog's Jump skill bonus to +9.
answered 3 hours ago
Hey I Can Chan
138k12240583
THIS! It's not about the "Dog" it's about that it feels like Every.Other.Entry. is wrong! I've been thinking I was just dumb and missing something because there is no way that there are that many wrong entries..or, rather I guess there are...thanks for the links!
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
and ofcourse, since they never bothered to fix them in the erratas they released...why publish an errata if you're not going to fix the wrong entries?
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
You are correct that a great many creatures' skill points are inaccurately spent (cf. this question). Other errors, too, exist in creatures' stat blocks (cf. this question). Errors like these can remain uncorrected even by errata and reprints like the premium edition Monster Manual (2012)) that include stealth errata: its dog entry has the dog's Jump skill bonus also as +7.
If you tinker long enough, you'll likely find some error or important omission in—at a guess—about every third monster. (That's what it feels like to me, anyway, and I tinker with a lot of monsters.) And, of course, the more complex the monster, the more likely it is that there's an error somewhere. You've to adjust things and move on. Then, if you're feeling generous, share the error with your players and have a laugh. You may even get lucky and the topic will arise naturally in another venue—like on a Q & A site, for instance—allowing you to share your findings more widely
If this minutiae really interests you, Cooper's Compendium of Corrected Creatures (with which I am not affiliated but which I endorse) goes through the entire SRD and attempts to fix many of the more egregious errors therein, and Corrected Creatures does, indeed, change the dog's Jump skill bonus to +9.
answered 3 hours ago
Hey I Can Chan
138k12240583
THIS! It's not about the "Dog" it's about that it feels like Every.Other.Entry. is wrong! I've been thinking I was just dumb and missing something because there is no way that there are that many wrong entries..or, rather I guess there are...thanks for the links!
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
and ofcourse, since they never bothered to fix them in the erratas they released...why publish an errata if you're not going to fix the wrong entries?
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
You are correct that a great many creatures' skill points are inaccurately spent (cf. this question). Other errors, too, exist in creatures' stat blocks (cf. this question). Errors like these can remain uncorrected even by errata and reprints like the premium edition Monster Manual (2012)) that include stealth errata: its dog entry has the dog's Jump skill bonus also as +7.
If you tinker long enough, you'll likely find some error or important omission in—at a guess—about every third monster. (That's what it feels like to me, anyway, and I tinker with a lot of monsters.) And, of course, the more complex the monster, the more likely it is that there's an error somewhere. You've to adjust things and move on. Then, if you're feeling generous, share the error with your players and have a laugh. You may even get lucky and the topic will arise naturally in another venue—like on a Q & A site, for instance—allowing you to share your findings more widely
If this minutiae really interests you, Cooper's Compendium of Corrected Creatures (with which I am not affiliated but which I endorse) goes through the entire SRD and attempts to fix many of the more egregious errors therein, and Corrected Creatures does, indeed, change the dog's Jump skill bonus to +9.
answered 3 hours ago
Hey I Can Chan
138k12240583
You are correct that a great many creatures' skill points are inaccurately spent (cf. this question). Other errors, too, exist in creatures' stat blocks (cf. this question). Errors like these can remain uncorrected even by errata and reprints like the premium edition Monster Manual (2012)) that include stealth errata: its dog entry has the dog's Jump skill bonus also as +7.
If you tinker long enough, you'll likely find some error or important omission in—at a guess—about every third monster. (That's what it feels like to me, anyway, and I tinker with a lot of monsters.) And, of course, the more complex the monster, the more likely it is that there's an error somewhere. You've to adjust things and move on. Then, if you're feeling generous, share the error with your players and have a laugh. You may even get lucky and the topic will arise naturally in another venue—like on a Q & A site, for instance—allowing you to share your findings more widely
If this minutiae really interests you, Cooper's Compendium of Corrected Creatures (with which I am not affiliated but which I endorse) goes through the entire SRD and attempts to fix many of the more egregious errors therein, and Corrected Creatures does, indeed, change the dog's Jump skill bonus to +9.
answered 3 hours ago
Hey I Can Chan
138k12240583
answered 3 hours ago
Hey I Can Chan
138k12240583
answered 3 hours ago
Hey I Can Chan
138k12240583
answered 3 hours ago
Hey I Can Chan
138k12240583
138k12240583
THIS! It's not about the "Dog" it's about that it feels like Every.Other.Entry. is wrong! I've been thinking I was just dumb and missing something because there is no way that there are that many wrong entries..or, rather I guess there are...thanks for the links!
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
and ofcourse, since they never bothered to fix them in the erratas they released...why publish an errata if you're not going to fix the wrong entries?
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
THIS! It's not about the "Dog" it's about that it feels like Every.Other.Entry. is wrong! I've been thinking I was just dumb and missing something because there is no way that there are that many wrong entries..or, rather I guess there are...thanks for the links!
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
and ofcourse, since they never bothered to fix them in the erratas they released...why publish an errata if you're not going to fix the wrong entries?
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
THIS! It's not about the "Dog" it's about that it feels like Every.Other.Entry. is wrong! I've been thinking I was just dumb and missing something because there is no way that there are that many wrong entries..or, rather I guess there are...thanks for the links!
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
THIS! It's not about the "Dog" it's about that it feels like Every.Other.Entry. is wrong! I've been thinking I was just dumb and missing something because there is no way that there are that many wrong entries..or, rather I guess there are...thanks for the links!
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
and ofcourse, since they never bothered to fix them in the erratas they released...why publish an errata if you're not going to fix the wrong entries?
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
and ofcourse, since they never bothered to fix them in the erratas they released...why publish an errata if you're not going to fix the wrong entries?
– Ben-Jamin
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Creature statblocks had errors (or, if being generous, unmentioned specific-trumps-general exceptions) all the time in 3.5e. They are not generally worth trying to back-calculate.
I cannot see anything wrong, at a glance, with your reasoning. It certainly seems like the dog’s Jump check is off.
answered 4 hours ago
KRyan
211k26528915
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Creature statblocks had errors (or, if being generous, unmentioned specific-trumps-general exceptions) all the time in 3.5e. They are not generally worth trying to back-calculate.
I cannot see anything wrong, at a glance, with your reasoning. It certainly seems like the dog’s Jump check is off.
answered 4 hours ago
KRyan
211k26528915
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Creature statblocks had errors (or, if being generous, unmentioned specific-trumps-general exceptions) all the time in 3.5e. They are not generally worth trying to back-calculate.
I cannot see anything wrong, at a glance, with your reasoning. It certainly seems like the dog’s Jump check is off.
answered 4 hours ago
KRyan
211k26528915
Creature statblocks had errors (or, if being generous, unmentioned specific-trumps-general exceptions) all the time in 3.5e. They are not generally worth trying to back-calculate.
I cannot see anything wrong, at a glance, with your reasoning. It certainly seems like the dog’s Jump check is off.
answered 4 hours ago
KRyan
211k26528915
answered 4 hours ago
KRyan
211k26528915
answered 4 hours ago
KRyan
211k26528915
answered 4 hours ago
KRyan
211k26528915
211k26528915
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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