Mixing
Can targets see through Disguise Self/Seeming if they succeed on the Investigation check?
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5
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The one answer to my previous question suggests that all Illusions conjured by Disguise Self and Seeming can be seen through by the user, but not by outside viewers.
The two spells Disguise Self and Seeming both differ from traditional Illusion spells in that they contain no clause that causes the Illusions to "fade" or "become transparent".
Instead, successful Investigation checks allow viewers to "discern" and "become aware" that the target is disguised.
Can viewers succeeding on the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?
dnd-5e spells rules-as-written illusion
edited 18 mins ago
V2Blast
16.7k242107
asked 6 hours ago
Nicbobo
951226
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
The one answer to my previous question suggests that all Illusions conjured by Disguise Self and Seeming can be seen through by the user, but not by outside viewers.
The two spells Disguise Self and Seeming both differ from traditional Illusion spells in that they contain no clause that causes the Illusions to "fade" or "become transparent".
Instead, successful Investigation checks allow viewers to "discern" and "become aware" that the target is disguised.
Can viewers succeeding on the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?
dnd-5e spells rules-as-written illusion
edited 18 mins ago
V2Blast
16.7k242107
asked 6 hours ago
Nicbobo
951226
7
I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
– NautArch
6 hours ago
Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
– Nicbobo
5 hours ago
It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
– NautArch
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
The one answer to my previous question suggests that all Illusions conjured by Disguise Self and Seeming can be seen through by the user, but not by outside viewers.
The two spells Disguise Self and Seeming both differ from traditional Illusion spells in that they contain no clause that causes the Illusions to "fade" or "become transparent".
Instead, successful Investigation checks allow viewers to "discern" and "become aware" that the target is disguised.
Can viewers succeeding on the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?
dnd-5e spells rules-as-written illusion
edited 18 mins ago
V2Blast
16.7k242107
asked 6 hours ago
Nicbobo
951226
The one answer to my previous question suggests that all Illusions conjured by Disguise Self and Seeming can be seen through by the user, but not by outside viewers.
The two spells Disguise Self and Seeming both differ from traditional Illusion spells in that they contain no clause that causes the Illusions to "fade" or "become transparent".
Instead, successful Investigation checks allow viewers to "discern" and "become aware" that the target is disguised.
Can viewers succeeding on the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?
dnd-5e spells rules-as-written illusion
dnd-5e spells rules-as-written illusion
edited 18 mins ago
V2Blast
16.7k242107
asked 6 hours ago
Nicbobo
951226
edited 18 mins ago
V2Blast
16.7k242107
asked 6 hours ago
Nicbobo
951226
edited 18 mins ago
V2Blast
16.7k242107
edited 18 mins ago
V2Blast
16.7k242107
edited 18 mins ago
V2Blast
16.7k242107
16.7k242107
asked 6 hours ago
Nicbobo
951226
asked 6 hours ago
Nicbobo
951226
asked 6 hours ago
Nicbobo
951226
951226
7
I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
– NautArch
6 hours ago
Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
– Nicbobo
5 hours ago
It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
– NautArch
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
7
I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
– NautArch
6 hours ago
Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
– Nicbobo
5 hours ago
It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
– NautArch
5 hours ago
7
7
I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
– NautArch
6 hours ago
I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
– NautArch
6 hours ago
Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
– Nicbobo
5 hours ago
Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
– Nicbobo
5 hours ago
It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
– NautArch
5 hours ago
It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
– NautArch
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
15
down vote
Spells do exactly what they say:
Disguise self reads:
To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.
Seeming Says:
If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.
Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.
answered 6 hours ago
J. A. Streich
22.6k165121
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Illusions become translucent only if they say so
As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:
If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint
But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.
This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).
Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)
answered 2 hours ago
Matt Vincent
7,41321443
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.
I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.
I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)
or
those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.
answered 2 hours ago
mightyonet
13514
1
How does this answer the question?
– enkryptor
2 hours ago
Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
– mightyonet
1 hour ago
RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
– V2Blast
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
15
down vote
Spells do exactly what they say:
Disguise self reads:
To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.
Seeming Says:
If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.
Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.
answered 6 hours ago
J. A. Streich
22.6k165121
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
Spells do exactly what they say:
Disguise self reads:
To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.
Seeming Says:
If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.
Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.
answered 6 hours ago
J. A. Streich
22.6k165121
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
up vote
15
down vote
Spells do exactly what they say:
Disguise self reads:
To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.
Seeming Says:
If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.
Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.
answered 6 hours ago
J. A. Streich
22.6k165121
Spells do exactly what they say:
Disguise self reads:
To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.
Seeming Says:
If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.
Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.
answered 6 hours ago
J. A. Streich
22.6k165121
answered 6 hours ago
J. A. Streich
22.6k165121
answered 6 hours ago
J. A. Streich
22.6k165121
answered 6 hours ago
J. A. Streich
22.6k165121
22.6k165121
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Illusions become translucent only if they say so
As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:
If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint
But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.
This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).
Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)
answered 2 hours ago
Matt Vincent
7,41321443
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Illusions become translucent only if they say so
As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:
If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint
But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.
This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).
Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)
answered 2 hours ago
Matt Vincent
7,41321443
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Illusions become translucent only if they say so
As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:
If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint
But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.
This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).
Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)
answered 2 hours ago
Matt Vincent
7,41321443
Illusions become translucent only if they say so
As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:
If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint
But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.
This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).
Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)
answered 2 hours ago
Matt Vincent
7,41321443
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
Matt Vincent
7,41321443
answered 2 hours ago
Matt Vincent
7,41321443
answered 2 hours ago
Matt Vincent
7,41321443
7,41321443
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.
I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.
I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)
or
those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.
answered 2 hours ago
mightyonet
13514
1
How does this answer the question?
– enkryptor
2 hours ago
Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
– mightyonet
1 hour ago
RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
– V2Blast
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.
I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.
I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)
or
those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.
answered 2 hours ago
mightyonet
13514
1
How does this answer the question?
– enkryptor
2 hours ago
Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
– mightyonet
1 hour ago
RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
– V2Blast
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.
I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.
I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)
or
those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.
answered 2 hours ago
mightyonet
13514
Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.
I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.
I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)
or
those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.
answered 2 hours ago
mightyonet
13514
answered 2 hours ago
mightyonet
13514
answered 2 hours ago
mightyonet
13514
answered 2 hours ago
mightyonet
13514
13514
1
How does this answer the question?
– enkryptor
2 hours ago
Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
– mightyonet
1 hour ago
RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
– V2Blast
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1
How does this answer the question?
– enkryptor
2 hours ago
Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
– mightyonet
1 hour ago
RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
– V2Blast
17 mins ago
1
1
How does this answer the question?
– enkryptor
2 hours ago
How does this answer the question?
– enkryptor
2 hours ago
Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
– mightyonet
1 hour ago
Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
– mightyonet
1 hour ago
RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
– V2Blast
17 mins ago
RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
– V2Blast
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
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7
I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
– NautArch
6 hours ago
Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
– Nicbobo
5 hours ago
It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
– NautArch
5 hours ago