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Why do extra flight crew members sit in the cockpit during takeoff/landing?
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I have observed this many times for long haul flights where they have extra cockpit crew: during takeoff they all gather in the cockpit and then disperse to their rest areas. They meet again somewhere halfway to hand off flying responsibilities and then gather again before landing. Usually approximately half an hour after/before takeoff/landing.
One way of thinking is, if you are going to rest, rest from the beginning. Just take over your duties when your turn comes up. Why even bother visiting cockpit if you are going to be there only for first 30 minutes or so of the flight.
I understand takeoff/landing are most critical phases of the flight where things can go wrong. But then airline have deemed that whoever is flying the plane at that point is fully capable of flying or in other words fully accredited crew is managing the flight.
Is there any other reason why all the crew has to meet in the cockpit during these phases?
crew long-haul
edited 19 mins ago
Pondlife
49.6k8133270
asked 9 hours ago
user871199
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add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
I have observed this many times for long haul flights where they have extra cockpit crew: during takeoff they all gather in the cockpit and then disperse to their rest areas. They meet again somewhere halfway to hand off flying responsibilities and then gather again before landing. Usually approximately half an hour after/before takeoff/landing.
One way of thinking is, if you are going to rest, rest from the beginning. Just take over your duties when your turn comes up. Why even bother visiting cockpit if you are going to be there only for first 30 minutes or so of the flight.
I understand takeoff/landing are most critical phases of the flight where things can go wrong. But then airline have deemed that whoever is flying the plane at that point is fully capable of flying or in other words fully accredited crew is managing the flight.
Is there any other reason why all the crew has to meet in the cockpit during these phases?
crew long-haul
edited 19 mins ago
Pondlife
49.6k8133270
asked 9 hours ago
user871199
44147
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
I have observed this many times for long haul flights where they have extra cockpit crew: during takeoff they all gather in the cockpit and then disperse to their rest areas. They meet again somewhere halfway to hand off flying responsibilities and then gather again before landing. Usually approximately half an hour after/before takeoff/landing.
One way of thinking is, if you are going to rest, rest from the beginning. Just take over your duties when your turn comes up. Why even bother visiting cockpit if you are going to be there only for first 30 minutes or so of the flight.
I understand takeoff/landing are most critical phases of the flight where things can go wrong. But then airline have deemed that whoever is flying the plane at that point is fully capable of flying or in other words fully accredited crew is managing the flight.
Is there any other reason why all the crew has to meet in the cockpit during these phases?
crew long-haul
edited 19 mins ago
Pondlife
49.6k8133270
asked 9 hours ago
user871199
44147
I have observed this many times for long haul flights where they have extra cockpit crew: during takeoff they all gather in the cockpit and then disperse to their rest areas. They meet again somewhere halfway to hand off flying responsibilities and then gather again before landing. Usually approximately half an hour after/before takeoff/landing.
One way of thinking is, if you are going to rest, rest from the beginning. Just take over your duties when your turn comes up. Why even bother visiting cockpit if you are going to be there only for first 30 minutes or so of the flight.
I understand takeoff/landing are most critical phases of the flight where things can go wrong. But then airline have deemed that whoever is flying the plane at that point is fully capable of flying or in other words fully accredited crew is managing the flight.
Is there any other reason why all the crew has to meet in the cockpit during these phases?
crew long-haul
crew long-haul
edited 19 mins ago
Pondlife
49.6k8133270
asked 9 hours ago
user871199
44147
edited 19 mins ago
Pondlife
49.6k8133270
asked 9 hours ago
user871199
44147
edited 19 mins ago
Pondlife
49.6k8133270
edited 19 mins ago
Pondlife
49.6k8133270
edited 19 mins ago
Pondlife
49.6k8133270
49.6k8133270
asked 9 hours ago
user871199
44147
asked 9 hours ago
user871199
44147
asked 9 hours ago
user871199
44147
44147
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
There'a a few reasons for this:
Safety:
During takeoff and landing, everyone should be buckled into a secure seat. They have these seats in the cockpit, and in large aircraft, they're actually very comfortable. Laying down in a crew bed would not be allowed during takeoff or landing (though it happens, off the record). Do note that these beds do indeed have belts that are similar to those on rolling hospital beds, but it's not intended that these be used during takeoff or landing. It would be very difficult to escape the small confined space of the crew bunks during an emergency.
Redundancy:
If something goes wrong with one, or both, of the pilots flying, you would really regret letting the other two qualified pilots go lay down in the back of the plane. Safety comes first in aviation, and the pilots are there to support each other.
Extra Help:
Extra crew sometimes helps the flying crew, whether that be by looking up information, radio frequencies, airport identifiers, and so forth.
Socializing:
Pilots are (usually) pretty friendly to each other. They all share a common interest, and while some of the older pilots may be a bit grizzled, they all got into aviation for their love of aircraft. There's typically some pretty lively conversations in the cockpit. As noted in the comments, this is while on the ground, pre/post taxi.
answered 9 hours ago
Matt
1,043219
2
Do you have any citations for this? There is no socializing below 10,000ft in accordance with the sterile cockpit rule and some (maybe all) crew bunks do have belts or restraints your other two points are logical although the copilot is generally considered the redundancy
– Dave
8 hours ago
3
@Dave Regarding socializing, that is on the ground (pre/post taxi). Regarding the bed belts, those are for keeping you in the bed during turbulent flight, and being knocked around while sleeping. It's not meant for restraining you during landing and takeoff. Beyond that, in the event of an emergency, evacuating a bunk (that takes a good bit of contortion to get into in many aircraft) is not very easy. There is similar reasoning to why you typically would stay above-deck rather than below-deck on a smaller boat during rough seas.
– Matt
8 hours ago
(And for citations, personal experience. I'm not a commercial pilot, but many of my family are, and I was able to sit and observe in the cockpit during many flights when I was a child, pre-9/11 of course.)
– Matt
8 hours ago
For those of us who like flying, it's the take-off and landing that are fun. Also, it's good to have more sets of eyes looking for traffic especially close to the airport where it's likely to be busier. And somebody keeping an eye on where you are on the glideslope/MDA/etc is handy: if the guy in the seat behind you seat yells, "Watch your altitude!" you will certainly check it! Also, if anything goes wrong, it's more dangerous closer to the ground, so that's a good time to have help.
– Flynn
5 hours ago
@Dave Crew rest areas are not certified for occupancy during takeoff and landing. Any seat used during takeoff and landing (Part 25.785(b)) must meet 16g crashworthiness requirements (25.562) and there's no way you can meet that lying down in a bed.
– user71659
5 hours ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
There'a a few reasons for this:
Safety:
During takeoff and landing, everyone should be buckled into a secure seat. They have these seats in the cockpit, and in large aircraft, they're actually very comfortable. Laying down in a crew bed would not be allowed during takeoff or landing (though it happens, off the record). Do note that these beds do indeed have belts that are similar to those on rolling hospital beds, but it's not intended that these be used during takeoff or landing. It would be very difficult to escape the small confined space of the crew bunks during an emergency.
Redundancy:
If something goes wrong with one, or both, of the pilots flying, you would really regret letting the other two qualified pilots go lay down in the back of the plane. Safety comes first in aviation, and the pilots are there to support each other.
Extra Help:
Extra crew sometimes helps the flying crew, whether that be by looking up information, radio frequencies, airport identifiers, and so forth.
Socializing:
Pilots are (usually) pretty friendly to each other. They all share a common interest, and while some of the older pilots may be a bit grizzled, they all got into aviation for their love of aircraft. There's typically some pretty lively conversations in the cockpit. As noted in the comments, this is while on the ground, pre/post taxi.
answered 9 hours ago
Matt
1,043219
2
Do you have any citations for this? There is no socializing below 10,000ft in accordance with the sterile cockpit rule and some (maybe all) crew bunks do have belts or restraints your other two points are logical although the copilot is generally considered the redundancy
– Dave
8 hours ago
3
@Dave Regarding socializing, that is on the ground (pre/post taxi). Regarding the bed belts, those are for keeping you in the bed during turbulent flight, and being knocked around while sleeping. It's not meant for restraining you during landing and takeoff. Beyond that, in the event of an emergency, evacuating a bunk (that takes a good bit of contortion to get into in many aircraft) is not very easy. There is similar reasoning to why you typically would stay above-deck rather than below-deck on a smaller boat during rough seas.
– Matt
8 hours ago
(And for citations, personal experience. I'm not a commercial pilot, but many of my family are, and I was able to sit and observe in the cockpit during many flights when I was a child, pre-9/11 of course.)
– Matt
8 hours ago
For those of us who like flying, it's the take-off and landing that are fun. Also, it's good to have more sets of eyes looking for traffic especially close to the airport where it's likely to be busier. And somebody keeping an eye on where you are on the glideslope/MDA/etc is handy: if the guy in the seat behind you seat yells, "Watch your altitude!" you will certainly check it! Also, if anything goes wrong, it's more dangerous closer to the ground, so that's a good time to have help.
– Flynn
5 hours ago
@Dave Crew rest areas are not certified for occupancy during takeoff and landing. Any seat used during takeoff and landing (Part 25.785(b)) must meet 16g crashworthiness requirements (25.562) and there's no way you can meet that lying down in a bed.
– user71659
5 hours ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
10
down vote
There'a a few reasons for this:
Safety:
During takeoff and landing, everyone should be buckled into a secure seat. They have these seats in the cockpit, and in large aircraft, they're actually very comfortable. Laying down in a crew bed would not be allowed during takeoff or landing (though it happens, off the record). Do note that these beds do indeed have belts that are similar to those on rolling hospital beds, but it's not intended that these be used during takeoff or landing. It would be very difficult to escape the small confined space of the crew bunks during an emergency.
Redundancy:
If something goes wrong with one, or both, of the pilots flying, you would really regret letting the other two qualified pilots go lay down in the back of the plane. Safety comes first in aviation, and the pilots are there to support each other.
Extra Help:
Extra crew sometimes helps the flying crew, whether that be by looking up information, radio frequencies, airport identifiers, and so forth.
Socializing:
Pilots are (usually) pretty friendly to each other. They all share a common interest, and while some of the older pilots may be a bit grizzled, they all got into aviation for their love of aircraft. There's typically some pretty lively conversations in the cockpit. As noted in the comments, this is while on the ground, pre/post taxi.
answered 9 hours ago
Matt
1,043219
2
Do you have any citations for this? There is no socializing below 10,000ft in accordance with the sterile cockpit rule and some (maybe all) crew bunks do have belts or restraints your other two points are logical although the copilot is generally considered the redundancy
– Dave
8 hours ago
3
@Dave Regarding socializing, that is on the ground (pre/post taxi). Regarding the bed belts, those are for keeping you in the bed during turbulent flight, and being knocked around while sleeping. It's not meant for restraining you during landing and takeoff. Beyond that, in the event of an emergency, evacuating a bunk (that takes a good bit of contortion to get into in many aircraft) is not very easy. There is similar reasoning to why you typically would stay above-deck rather than below-deck on a smaller boat during rough seas.
– Matt
8 hours ago
(And for citations, personal experience. I'm not a commercial pilot, but many of my family are, and I was able to sit and observe in the cockpit during many flights when I was a child, pre-9/11 of course.)
– Matt
8 hours ago
For those of us who like flying, it's the take-off and landing that are fun. Also, it's good to have more sets of eyes looking for traffic especially close to the airport where it's likely to be busier. And somebody keeping an eye on where you are on the glideslope/MDA/etc is handy: if the guy in the seat behind you seat yells, "Watch your altitude!" you will certainly check it! Also, if anything goes wrong, it's more dangerous closer to the ground, so that's a good time to have help.
– Flynn
5 hours ago
@Dave Crew rest areas are not certified for occupancy during takeoff and landing. Any seat used during takeoff and landing (Part 25.785(b)) must meet 16g crashworthiness requirements (25.562) and there's no way you can meet that lying down in a bed.
– user71659
5 hours ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
10
down vote
up vote
10
down vote
There'a a few reasons for this:
Safety:
During takeoff and landing, everyone should be buckled into a secure seat. They have these seats in the cockpit, and in large aircraft, they're actually very comfortable. Laying down in a crew bed would not be allowed during takeoff or landing (though it happens, off the record). Do note that these beds do indeed have belts that are similar to those on rolling hospital beds, but it's not intended that these be used during takeoff or landing. It would be very difficult to escape the small confined space of the crew bunks during an emergency.
Redundancy:
If something goes wrong with one, or both, of the pilots flying, you would really regret letting the other two qualified pilots go lay down in the back of the plane. Safety comes first in aviation, and the pilots are there to support each other.
Extra Help:
Extra crew sometimes helps the flying crew, whether that be by looking up information, radio frequencies, airport identifiers, and so forth.
Socializing:
Pilots are (usually) pretty friendly to each other. They all share a common interest, and while some of the older pilots may be a bit grizzled, they all got into aviation for their love of aircraft. There's typically some pretty lively conversations in the cockpit. As noted in the comments, this is while on the ground, pre/post taxi.
answered 9 hours ago
Matt
1,043219
There'a a few reasons for this:
Safety:
During takeoff and landing, everyone should be buckled into a secure seat. They have these seats in the cockpit, and in large aircraft, they're actually very comfortable. Laying down in a crew bed would not be allowed during takeoff or landing (though it happens, off the record). Do note that these beds do indeed have belts that are similar to those on rolling hospital beds, but it's not intended that these be used during takeoff or landing. It would be very difficult to escape the small confined space of the crew bunks during an emergency.
Redundancy:
If something goes wrong with one, or both, of the pilots flying, you would really regret letting the other two qualified pilots go lay down in the back of the plane. Safety comes first in aviation, and the pilots are there to support each other.
Extra Help:
Extra crew sometimes helps the flying crew, whether that be by looking up information, radio frequencies, airport identifiers, and so forth.
Socializing:
Pilots are (usually) pretty friendly to each other. They all share a common interest, and while some of the older pilots may be a bit grizzled, they all got into aviation for their love of aircraft. There's typically some pretty lively conversations in the cockpit. As noted in the comments, this is while on the ground, pre/post taxi.
answered 9 hours ago
Matt
1,043219
edited 8 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Matt
1,043219
answered 9 hours ago
Matt
1,043219
answered 9 hours ago
Matt
1,043219
1,043219
2
Do you have any citations for this? There is no socializing below 10,000ft in accordance with the sterile cockpit rule and some (maybe all) crew bunks do have belts or restraints your other two points are logical although the copilot is generally considered the redundancy
– Dave
8 hours ago
3
@Dave Regarding socializing, that is on the ground (pre/post taxi). Regarding the bed belts, those are for keeping you in the bed during turbulent flight, and being knocked around while sleeping. It's not meant for restraining you during landing and takeoff. Beyond that, in the event of an emergency, evacuating a bunk (that takes a good bit of contortion to get into in many aircraft) is not very easy. There is similar reasoning to why you typically would stay above-deck rather than below-deck on a smaller boat during rough seas.
– Matt
8 hours ago
(And for citations, personal experience. I'm not a commercial pilot, but many of my family are, and I was able to sit and observe in the cockpit during many flights when I was a child, pre-9/11 of course.)
– Matt
8 hours ago
For those of us who like flying, it's the take-off and landing that are fun. Also, it's good to have more sets of eyes looking for traffic especially close to the airport where it's likely to be busier. And somebody keeping an eye on where you are on the glideslope/MDA/etc is handy: if the guy in the seat behind you seat yells, "Watch your altitude!" you will certainly check it! Also, if anything goes wrong, it's more dangerous closer to the ground, so that's a good time to have help.
– Flynn
5 hours ago
@Dave Crew rest areas are not certified for occupancy during takeoff and landing. Any seat used during takeoff and landing (Part 25.785(b)) must meet 16g crashworthiness requirements (25.562) and there's no way you can meet that lying down in a bed.
– user71659
5 hours ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
2
Do you have any citations for this? There is no socializing below 10,000ft in accordance with the sterile cockpit rule and some (maybe all) crew bunks do have belts or restraints your other two points are logical although the copilot is generally considered the redundancy
– Dave
8 hours ago
3
@Dave Regarding socializing, that is on the ground (pre/post taxi). Regarding the bed belts, those are for keeping you in the bed during turbulent flight, and being knocked around while sleeping. It's not meant for restraining you during landing and takeoff. Beyond that, in the event of an emergency, evacuating a bunk (that takes a good bit of contortion to get into in many aircraft) is not very easy. There is similar reasoning to why you typically would stay above-deck rather than below-deck on a smaller boat during rough seas.
– Matt
8 hours ago
(And for citations, personal experience. I'm not a commercial pilot, but many of my family are, and I was able to sit and observe in the cockpit during many flights when I was a child, pre-9/11 of course.)
– Matt
8 hours ago
For those of us who like flying, it's the take-off and landing that are fun. Also, it's good to have more sets of eyes looking for traffic especially close to the airport where it's likely to be busier. And somebody keeping an eye on where you are on the glideslope/MDA/etc is handy: if the guy in the seat behind you seat yells, "Watch your altitude!" you will certainly check it! Also, if anything goes wrong, it's more dangerous closer to the ground, so that's a good time to have help.
– Flynn
5 hours ago
@Dave Crew rest areas are not certified for occupancy during takeoff and landing. Any seat used during takeoff and landing (Part 25.785(b)) must meet 16g crashworthiness requirements (25.562) and there's no way you can meet that lying down in a bed.
– user71659
5 hours ago
2
2
Do you have any citations for this? There is no socializing below 10,000ft in accordance with the sterile cockpit rule and some (maybe all) crew bunks do have belts or restraints your other two points are logical although the copilot is generally considered the redundancy
– Dave
8 hours ago
Do you have any citations for this? There is no socializing below 10,000ft in accordance with the sterile cockpit rule and some (maybe all) crew bunks do have belts or restraints your other two points are logical although the copilot is generally considered the redundancy
– Dave
8 hours ago
3
3
@Dave Regarding socializing, that is on the ground (pre/post taxi). Regarding the bed belts, those are for keeping you in the bed during turbulent flight, and being knocked around while sleeping. It's not meant for restraining you during landing and takeoff. Beyond that, in the event of an emergency, evacuating a bunk (that takes a good bit of contortion to get into in many aircraft) is not very easy. There is similar reasoning to why you typically would stay above-deck rather than below-deck on a smaller boat during rough seas.
– Matt
8 hours ago
@Dave Regarding socializing, that is on the ground (pre/post taxi). Regarding the bed belts, those are for keeping you in the bed during turbulent flight, and being knocked around while sleeping. It's not meant for restraining you during landing and takeoff. Beyond that, in the event of an emergency, evacuating a bunk (that takes a good bit of contortion to get into in many aircraft) is not very easy. There is similar reasoning to why you typically would stay above-deck rather than below-deck on a smaller boat during rough seas.
– Matt
8 hours ago
(And for citations, personal experience. I'm not a commercial pilot, but many of my family are, and I was able to sit and observe in the cockpit during many flights when I was a child, pre-9/11 of course.)
– Matt
8 hours ago
(And for citations, personal experience. I'm not a commercial pilot, but many of my family are, and I was able to sit and observe in the cockpit during many flights when I was a child, pre-9/11 of course.)
– Matt
8 hours ago
For those of us who like flying, it's the take-off and landing that are fun. Also, it's good to have more sets of eyes looking for traffic especially close to the airport where it's likely to be busier. And somebody keeping an eye on where you are on the glideslope/MDA/etc is handy: if the guy in the seat behind you seat yells, "Watch your altitude!" you will certainly check it! Also, if anything goes wrong, it's more dangerous closer to the ground, so that's a good time to have help.
– Flynn
5 hours ago
For those of us who like flying, it's the take-off and landing that are fun. Also, it's good to have more sets of eyes looking for traffic especially close to the airport where it's likely to be busier. And somebody keeping an eye on where you are on the glideslope/MDA/etc is handy: if the guy in the seat behind you seat yells, "Watch your altitude!" you will certainly check it! Also, if anything goes wrong, it's more dangerous closer to the ground, so that's a good time to have help.
– Flynn
5 hours ago
@Dave Crew rest areas are not certified for occupancy during takeoff and landing. Any seat used during takeoff and landing (Part 25.785(b)) must meet 16g crashworthiness requirements (25.562) and there's no way you can meet that lying down in a bed.
– user71659
5 hours ago
@Dave Crew rest areas are not certified for occupancy during takeoff and landing. Any seat used during takeoff and landing (Part 25.785(b)) must meet 16g crashworthiness requirements (25.562) and there's no way you can meet that lying down in a bed.
– user71659
5 hours ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
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