Mixing
How do I clearly foreshadow a potential out of combat death?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Let me first set the scene
The group I DM for is in a position where they are at the mercy of a group of people who are contemplating what to do with the party.
I have decided on a game of chance to decide their fate (It makes narrative sense), and at a certain point one of the PC's may do so badly that their fate is to be killed (Again it makes narrative sense).
The particular method of death is that they are going to be pushed off a very high ledge.
While I do plan to give the player chance to do something to avoid this fate (Running, bribing, fighting, etc.) the gist is that if the player doesn't do anything they will be pushed to their death.
The player may well trust the 'enemy' because there is a likelihood that other members of the party have had amusing fates, and be curious to find out their own.
Further to the above:
Some of my players read this site, so I was trying to be vague, but the players are already 'captive' in this scene, and due to language barriers the level of communication is minimal. As such I can't forewarn the party, and I think having the enemy communicate clearly for the first time cheapens the scene.
The PC's are literally sat at a table playing cards and losing may mean being thrown off a cliff. They don't know the rules, can't read the cards, can't understand much of what is said around them and are 100% out of their element.
Examples:
- Player draws the king > character doesn't know what it means > NPC's
lead character somewhere > something potentially ominous happens such as being surrounded by NPC's > character is given his stuff back and set
free - Player draws the queen > character doesn't know what it means > NPC's lead character to a cliff edge (The ominous happening) > character is pushed over
So:
What techniques are there to ensure that this player knows they face potential death, without just outright telling them?
Basically when they get to the cliff edge I want them to have a good idea that they are going to be pushed off.
Note on answers: I am playing D&D 5e but I am very influenced by ideas from other systems so I am happy to hear about how to successfully pull this off as a GM, regardless of system. I don't stick to RAW either.
dnd-5e gm-techniques
edited 23 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
69.6k16217384
asked 3 hours ago
SeriousBri
4,92821240
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Let me first set the scene
The group I DM for is in a position where they are at the mercy of a group of people who are contemplating what to do with the party.
I have decided on a game of chance to decide their fate (It makes narrative sense), and at a certain point one of the PC's may do so badly that their fate is to be killed (Again it makes narrative sense).
The particular method of death is that they are going to be pushed off a very high ledge.
While I do plan to give the player chance to do something to avoid this fate (Running, bribing, fighting, etc.) the gist is that if the player doesn't do anything they will be pushed to their death.
The player may well trust the 'enemy' because there is a likelihood that other members of the party have had amusing fates, and be curious to find out their own.
Further to the above:
Some of my players read this site, so I was trying to be vague, but the players are already 'captive' in this scene, and due to language barriers the level of communication is minimal. As such I can't forewarn the party, and I think having the enemy communicate clearly for the first time cheapens the scene.
The PC's are literally sat at a table playing cards and losing may mean being thrown off a cliff. They don't know the rules, can't read the cards, can't understand much of what is said around them and are 100% out of their element.
Examples:
- Player draws the king > character doesn't know what it means > NPC's
lead character somewhere > something potentially ominous happens such as being surrounded by NPC's > character is given his stuff back and set
free - Player draws the queen > character doesn't know what it means > NPC's lead character to a cliff edge (The ominous happening) > character is pushed over
So:
What techniques are there to ensure that this player knows they face potential death, without just outright telling them?
Basically when they get to the cliff edge I want them to have a good idea that they are going to be pushed off.
Note on answers: I am playing D&D 5e but I am very influenced by ideas from other systems so I am happy to hear about how to successfully pull this off as a GM, regardless of system. I don't stick to RAW either.
dnd-5e gm-techniques
edited 23 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
69.6k16217384
asked 3 hours ago
SeriousBri
4,92821240
2
It's best to tag with the game you're actually playing rather than try to make it unnecessarily broad.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
1
@PurpleMonkey Why though? It is purely system agnostic.
– AntiDrondert
3 hours ago
@AntiDrondert read the linked meta.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
2
Why exactly won't the NPCs tell of the chance of death? Can you tell more about the nature of the "game of chance"?
– Szega
3 hours ago
Are the players on board with this sort of story telling? Seems ominously close to "a rock falls on you and you die"
– Grosscol
17 mins ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Let me first set the scene
The group I DM for is in a position where they are at the mercy of a group of people who are contemplating what to do with the party.
I have decided on a game of chance to decide their fate (It makes narrative sense), and at a certain point one of the PC's may do so badly that their fate is to be killed (Again it makes narrative sense).
The particular method of death is that they are going to be pushed off a very high ledge.
While I do plan to give the player chance to do something to avoid this fate (Running, bribing, fighting, etc.) the gist is that if the player doesn't do anything they will be pushed to their death.
The player may well trust the 'enemy' because there is a likelihood that other members of the party have had amusing fates, and be curious to find out their own.
Further to the above:
Some of my players read this site, so I was trying to be vague, but the players are already 'captive' in this scene, and due to language barriers the level of communication is minimal. As such I can't forewarn the party, and I think having the enemy communicate clearly for the first time cheapens the scene.
The PC's are literally sat at a table playing cards and losing may mean being thrown off a cliff. They don't know the rules, can't read the cards, can't understand much of what is said around them and are 100% out of their element.
Examples:
- Player draws the king > character doesn't know what it means > NPC's
lead character somewhere > something potentially ominous happens such as being surrounded by NPC's > character is given his stuff back and set
free - Player draws the queen > character doesn't know what it means > NPC's lead character to a cliff edge (The ominous happening) > character is pushed over
So:
What techniques are there to ensure that this player knows they face potential death, without just outright telling them?
Basically when they get to the cliff edge I want them to have a good idea that they are going to be pushed off.
Note on answers: I am playing D&D 5e but I am very influenced by ideas from other systems so I am happy to hear about how to successfully pull this off as a GM, regardless of system. I don't stick to RAW either.
dnd-5e gm-techniques
edited 23 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
69.6k16217384
asked 3 hours ago
SeriousBri
4,92821240
Let me first set the scene
The group I DM for is in a position where they are at the mercy of a group of people who are contemplating what to do with the party.
I have decided on a game of chance to decide their fate (It makes narrative sense), and at a certain point one of the PC's may do so badly that their fate is to be killed (Again it makes narrative sense).
The particular method of death is that they are going to be pushed off a very high ledge.
While I do plan to give the player chance to do something to avoid this fate (Running, bribing, fighting, etc.) the gist is that if the player doesn't do anything they will be pushed to their death.
The player may well trust the 'enemy' because there is a likelihood that other members of the party have had amusing fates, and be curious to find out their own.
Further to the above:
Some of my players read this site, so I was trying to be vague, but the players are already 'captive' in this scene, and due to language barriers the level of communication is minimal. As such I can't forewarn the party, and I think having the enemy communicate clearly for the first time cheapens the scene.
The PC's are literally sat at a table playing cards and losing may mean being thrown off a cliff. They don't know the rules, can't read the cards, can't understand much of what is said around them and are 100% out of their element.
Examples:
- Player draws the king > character doesn't know what it means > NPC's
lead character somewhere > something potentially ominous happens such as being surrounded by NPC's > character is given his stuff back and set
free - Player draws the queen > character doesn't know what it means > NPC's lead character to a cliff edge (The ominous happening) > character is pushed over
So:
What techniques are there to ensure that this player knows they face potential death, without just outright telling them?
Basically when they get to the cliff edge I want them to have a good idea that they are going to be pushed off.
Note on answers: I am playing D&D 5e but I am very influenced by ideas from other systems so I am happy to hear about how to successfully pull this off as a GM, regardless of system. I don't stick to RAW either.
dnd-5e gm-techniques
dnd-5e gm-techniques
edited 23 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
69.6k16217384
asked 3 hours ago
SeriousBri
4,92821240
edited 23 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
69.6k16217384
asked 3 hours ago
SeriousBri
4,92821240
edited 23 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
69.6k16217384
edited 23 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
69.6k16217384
edited 23 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
69.6k16217384
69.6k16217384
asked 3 hours ago
SeriousBri
4,92821240
asked 3 hours ago
SeriousBri
4,92821240
asked 3 hours ago
SeriousBri
4,92821240
4,92821240
2
It's best to tag with the game you're actually playing rather than try to make it unnecessarily broad.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
1
@PurpleMonkey Why though? It is purely system agnostic.
– AntiDrondert
3 hours ago
@AntiDrondert read the linked meta.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
2
Why exactly won't the NPCs tell of the chance of death? Can you tell more about the nature of the "game of chance"?
– Szega
3 hours ago
Are the players on board with this sort of story telling? Seems ominously close to "a rock falls on you and you die"
– Grosscol
17 mins ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
2
It's best to tag with the game you're actually playing rather than try to make it unnecessarily broad.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
1
@PurpleMonkey Why though? It is purely system agnostic.
– AntiDrondert
3 hours ago
@AntiDrondert read the linked meta.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
2
Why exactly won't the NPCs tell of the chance of death? Can you tell more about the nature of the "game of chance"?
– Szega
3 hours ago
Are the players on board with this sort of story telling? Seems ominously close to "a rock falls on you and you die"
– Grosscol
17 mins ago
2
2
It's best to tag with the game you're actually playing rather than try to make it unnecessarily broad.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
It's best to tag with the game you're actually playing rather than try to make it unnecessarily broad.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
1
1
@PurpleMonkey Why though? It is purely system agnostic.
– AntiDrondert
3 hours ago
@PurpleMonkey Why though? It is purely system agnostic.
– AntiDrondert
3 hours ago
@AntiDrondert read the linked meta.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
@AntiDrondert read the linked meta.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
2
2
Why exactly won't the NPCs tell of the chance of death? Can you tell more about the nature of the "game of chance"?
– Szega
3 hours ago
Why exactly won't the NPCs tell of the chance of death? Can you tell more about the nature of the "game of chance"?
– Szega
3 hours ago
Are the players on board with this sort of story telling? Seems ominously close to "a rock falls on you and you die"
– Grosscol
17 mins ago
Are the players on board with this sort of story telling? Seems ominously close to "a rock falls on you and you die"
– Grosscol
17 mins ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
11
down vote
Show, don't tell
You need to convince your players that this situation could absolutely turn lethal if they don't play their cards right. As you say, it wouldn't make sense for the NPCs to outright tell them. (Though a snide remark of "I can't wait to see your skull break on the rocks" from a random NPC could work.) I think a better approach is to show them how lethal this could be.
Some suggestions
Find a reason to lead the players past the base of the cliff. Point out how high it is and how unnervingly fresh the bloodstains on the sharp rocks look.
Have the PCs overhear a conversation. "Did you see his face as he begged for his life? Shame that cliff isn't higher, then we'd hear them scream for longer."
Have skulls, lots of skulls. Put them on posts. Classic warning sign.
Execute an NPC. This is potentially the most direct and easiest. Simply have the NPCs execute another NPCs in a way that the PCs are aware of it. Death is on the table now.
More subtle
Have an NPC that isn't ok with murder. Mention their reaction (worry/fear/disgust/disappointment) when the player draws the wrong card. If the PC chooses to engage with them they mouth "RUN!!"
Alternatively have an NPC that's a huge fan of murder. Mention their reaction (excitement/glee/bloodlust) when the player draws the right card. If the PC chooses to engage have them draw a finger across their throat and grin.
answered 3 hours ago
linksassin
1,445222
Building off the above, have one NPC make it absolutely clear that he wants the players dead, through body language, overt threats, even have him rough up a character. Now, at your card game, let that NPC shuffle the cards, AND LET THE PLAYERS SPOT HIM MESSING SLIPPING A QUEEN ONTO THE TOP OF THE DECK. Have them roll perception, and fudge it if you need to, but make it clear that he's cheating. Now your players have an interesting choice to make- do they call out the cheater? Try a little cheating of their own? Start throwing punches?
– The Grumbleputty
30 mins ago
@TheGrumbleputty That is a good idea. I worry that the players will think that stopping the guy from cheating means they are free from death though.
– linksassin
27 mins ago
I see what you did there ... if they don't play their cards right and I chuckled. @TheGrumbleputty that needs to be an answer, or part of an answer, not a comment. (And IMO, it's the core of a decent answer)
– KorvinStarmast
22 mins ago
1
@KorvinStarmast I actually wrote that before the edits to the question added the information about the card game. When the question was edited I laughed too.
– linksassin
20 mins ago
Upvote is specifically for "have this happen to another NPC first"
– Ifusaso
12 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
4
down vote
Chance and Character Death
I think Linksassin has a great answer with regard to how to narrate the risk and encounter, but I do believe it is worth addressing whether or not your players are on board with an encounter like this.
Even with enough subtle clues, creating a path to fast character death that is out of combat may create problems at the table.
If your players are fully on board with this type of encounter and are okay with it, then there is no problem. But unless you know for certain that such is the case, you run the risk of creating some very unfun drama at the table.
Even if this is the final session of a campaign and the thematic ending of "life and death is random", that could still be a huge let down to the players. Remember that they have been heavily invested in their characters and developing an encounter that is entirely based on chance where the players don't even know the rules is roughly the equivalent of Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.
Again, if you know that your players are on board with this, or they know that character death is something that happens regularly at your table, then this is less of an issue. But removing any player agency from character death is a big enough concern that I wanted to address it for you and for others considering encounters like this. We all know that characters can die, and often from poor decisions by the player, but making it happen due to random chance from a game with unknown rules may is a real concern.
answered 20 mins ago
NautArch
48.3k6168324
The lack of agency is what concerns me, which is why this question is about how to give them one last chance at exercising that agency. They have taken various wrong turns to get here, but at some point the line ends.
– SeriousBri
10 mins ago
@SeriousBri But your 'last chance' is one in which they have no agency. Providing them with a 'game' that they don't have knowledge of the rules and that most likely ends in death is removing agency. The only chance they have to win is chance itself. You might as well have them flip a coin with heads live, tails die.
– NautArch
7 mins ago
The game isn't really the relevant part, I am more than happy with a lack of agency during that part (The game is essentially a consequence of them exercising earlier agency, and their fate is literally out of their hands at this point as necessary in a realistic world). However once the outcome is selected I want to ensure they have their agency returned.
– SeriousBri
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Use some Narrative Emphasis
As they're being led to the edge, spend some time describing the scene in detail, playing up how threatening the cliff looks. Mention offhand that they're pretty sure that if they were thrown off, they wouldn't survive it. Put the idea in their head that they're near a cliff, they're not in control of the situation, and that if they go off the cliff they'll die, and they should be able to connect the dots themselves.
answered 21 mins ago
Ben Barden
7,8722049
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
The classic way to do this is a riddle, prophecy or cryptic fortune telling
The adventurers have an encounter with a peculiar or extraordinary figure who says something cryptic. It could be a dramatic encounter or just a brief chance encoutner.
Such as when the witch tells Julius Caesar "Beware the ides of March!"
The message could come from a sphinx, a dragon, a hag, a cleric acting as a divine oracle, a jester, or any quirky fey creature... there are plenty of options.
Since they're going to potentially fall to their death, the cryptic saying could be something like "at a great height you'll soar" or seomthing that is variously interpretable.
answered 3 hours ago
Valley Lad
552210
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
11
down vote
Show, don't tell
You need to convince your players that this situation could absolutely turn lethal if they don't play their cards right. As you say, it wouldn't make sense for the NPCs to outright tell them. (Though a snide remark of "I can't wait to see your skull break on the rocks" from a random NPC could work.) I think a better approach is to show them how lethal this could be.
Some suggestions
Find a reason to lead the players past the base of the cliff. Point out how high it is and how unnervingly fresh the bloodstains on the sharp rocks look.
Have the PCs overhear a conversation. "Did you see his face as he begged for his life? Shame that cliff isn't higher, then we'd hear them scream for longer."
Have skulls, lots of skulls. Put them on posts. Classic warning sign.
Execute an NPC. This is potentially the most direct and easiest. Simply have the NPCs execute another NPCs in a way that the PCs are aware of it. Death is on the table now.
More subtle
Have an NPC that isn't ok with murder. Mention their reaction (worry/fear/disgust/disappointment) when the player draws the wrong card. If the PC chooses to engage with them they mouth "RUN!!"
Alternatively have an NPC that's a huge fan of murder. Mention their reaction (excitement/glee/bloodlust) when the player draws the right card. If the PC chooses to engage have them draw a finger across their throat and grin.
answered 3 hours ago
linksassin
1,445222
Building off the above, have one NPC make it absolutely clear that he wants the players dead, through body language, overt threats, even have him rough up a character. Now, at your card game, let that NPC shuffle the cards, AND LET THE PLAYERS SPOT HIM MESSING SLIPPING A QUEEN ONTO THE TOP OF THE DECK. Have them roll perception, and fudge it if you need to, but make it clear that he's cheating. Now your players have an interesting choice to make- do they call out the cheater? Try a little cheating of their own? Start throwing punches?
– The Grumbleputty
30 mins ago
@TheGrumbleputty That is a good idea. I worry that the players will think that stopping the guy from cheating means they are free from death though.
– linksassin
27 mins ago
I see what you did there ... if they don't play their cards right and I chuckled. @TheGrumbleputty that needs to be an answer, or part of an answer, not a comment. (And IMO, it's the core of a decent answer)
– KorvinStarmast
22 mins ago
1
@KorvinStarmast I actually wrote that before the edits to the question added the information about the card game. When the question was edited I laughed too.
– linksassin
20 mins ago
Upvote is specifically for "have this happen to another NPC first"
– Ifusaso
12 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
11
down vote
Show, don't tell
You need to convince your players that this situation could absolutely turn lethal if they don't play their cards right. As you say, it wouldn't make sense for the NPCs to outright tell them. (Though a snide remark of "I can't wait to see your skull break on the rocks" from a random NPC could work.) I think a better approach is to show them how lethal this could be.
Some suggestions
Find a reason to lead the players past the base of the cliff. Point out how high it is and how unnervingly fresh the bloodstains on the sharp rocks look.
Have the PCs overhear a conversation. "Did you see his face as he begged for his life? Shame that cliff isn't higher, then we'd hear them scream for longer."
Have skulls, lots of skulls. Put them on posts. Classic warning sign.
Execute an NPC. This is potentially the most direct and easiest. Simply have the NPCs execute another NPCs in a way that the PCs are aware of it. Death is on the table now.
More subtle
Have an NPC that isn't ok with murder. Mention their reaction (worry/fear/disgust/disappointment) when the player draws the wrong card. If the PC chooses to engage with them they mouth "RUN!!"
Alternatively have an NPC that's a huge fan of murder. Mention their reaction (excitement/glee/bloodlust) when the player draws the right card. If the PC chooses to engage have them draw a finger across their throat and grin.
answered 3 hours ago
linksassin
1,445222
Building off the above, have one NPC make it absolutely clear that he wants the players dead, through body language, overt threats, even have him rough up a character. Now, at your card game, let that NPC shuffle the cards, AND LET THE PLAYERS SPOT HIM MESSING SLIPPING A QUEEN ONTO THE TOP OF THE DECK. Have them roll perception, and fudge it if you need to, but make it clear that he's cheating. Now your players have an interesting choice to make- do they call out the cheater? Try a little cheating of their own? Start throwing punches?
– The Grumbleputty
30 mins ago
@TheGrumbleputty That is a good idea. I worry that the players will think that stopping the guy from cheating means they are free from death though.
– linksassin
27 mins ago
I see what you did there ... if they don't play their cards right and I chuckled. @TheGrumbleputty that needs to be an answer, or part of an answer, not a comment. (And IMO, it's the core of a decent answer)
– KorvinStarmast
22 mins ago
1
@KorvinStarmast I actually wrote that before the edits to the question added the information about the card game. When the question was edited I laughed too.
– linksassin
20 mins ago
Upvote is specifically for "have this happen to another NPC first"
– Ifusaso
12 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
11
down vote
up vote
11
down vote
Show, don't tell
You need to convince your players that this situation could absolutely turn lethal if they don't play their cards right. As you say, it wouldn't make sense for the NPCs to outright tell them. (Though a snide remark of "I can't wait to see your skull break on the rocks" from a random NPC could work.) I think a better approach is to show them how lethal this could be.
Some suggestions
Find a reason to lead the players past the base of the cliff. Point out how high it is and how unnervingly fresh the bloodstains on the sharp rocks look.
Have the PCs overhear a conversation. "Did you see his face as he begged for his life? Shame that cliff isn't higher, then we'd hear them scream for longer."
Have skulls, lots of skulls. Put them on posts. Classic warning sign.
Execute an NPC. This is potentially the most direct and easiest. Simply have the NPCs execute another NPCs in a way that the PCs are aware of it. Death is on the table now.
More subtle
Have an NPC that isn't ok with murder. Mention their reaction (worry/fear/disgust/disappointment) when the player draws the wrong card. If the PC chooses to engage with them they mouth "RUN!!"
Alternatively have an NPC that's a huge fan of murder. Mention their reaction (excitement/glee/bloodlust) when the player draws the right card. If the PC chooses to engage have them draw a finger across their throat and grin.
answered 3 hours ago
linksassin
1,445222
Show, don't tell
You need to convince your players that this situation could absolutely turn lethal if they don't play their cards right. As you say, it wouldn't make sense for the NPCs to outright tell them. (Though a snide remark of "I can't wait to see your skull break on the rocks" from a random NPC could work.) I think a better approach is to show them how lethal this could be.
Some suggestions
Find a reason to lead the players past the base of the cliff. Point out how high it is and how unnervingly fresh the bloodstains on the sharp rocks look.
Have the PCs overhear a conversation. "Did you see his face as he begged for his life? Shame that cliff isn't higher, then we'd hear them scream for longer."
Have skulls, lots of skulls. Put them on posts. Classic warning sign.
Execute an NPC. This is potentially the most direct and easiest. Simply have the NPCs execute another NPCs in a way that the PCs are aware of it. Death is on the table now.
More subtle
Have an NPC that isn't ok with murder. Mention their reaction (worry/fear/disgust/disappointment) when the player draws the wrong card. If the PC chooses to engage with them they mouth "RUN!!"
Alternatively have an NPC that's a huge fan of murder. Mention their reaction (excitement/glee/bloodlust) when the player draws the right card. If the PC chooses to engage have them draw a finger across their throat and grin.
answered 3 hours ago
linksassin
1,445222
edited 2 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
linksassin
1,445222
answered 3 hours ago
linksassin
1,445222
answered 3 hours ago
linksassin
1,445222
1,445222
Building off the above, have one NPC make it absolutely clear that he wants the players dead, through body language, overt threats, even have him rough up a character. Now, at your card game, let that NPC shuffle the cards, AND LET THE PLAYERS SPOT HIM MESSING SLIPPING A QUEEN ONTO THE TOP OF THE DECK. Have them roll perception, and fudge it if you need to, but make it clear that he's cheating. Now your players have an interesting choice to make- do they call out the cheater? Try a little cheating of their own? Start throwing punches?
– The Grumbleputty
30 mins ago
@TheGrumbleputty That is a good idea. I worry that the players will think that stopping the guy from cheating means they are free from death though.
– linksassin
27 mins ago
I see what you did there ... if they don't play their cards right and I chuckled. @TheGrumbleputty that needs to be an answer, or part of an answer, not a comment. (And IMO, it's the core of a decent answer)
– KorvinStarmast
22 mins ago
1
@KorvinStarmast I actually wrote that before the edits to the question added the information about the card game. When the question was edited I laughed too.
– linksassin
20 mins ago
Upvote is specifically for "have this happen to another NPC first"
– Ifusaso
12 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
Building off the above, have one NPC make it absolutely clear that he wants the players dead, through body language, overt threats, even have him rough up a character. Now, at your card game, let that NPC shuffle the cards, AND LET THE PLAYERS SPOT HIM MESSING SLIPPING A QUEEN ONTO THE TOP OF THE DECK. Have them roll perception, and fudge it if you need to, but make it clear that he's cheating. Now your players have an interesting choice to make- do they call out the cheater? Try a little cheating of their own? Start throwing punches?
– The Grumbleputty
30 mins ago
@TheGrumbleputty That is a good idea. I worry that the players will think that stopping the guy from cheating means they are free from death though.
– linksassin
27 mins ago
I see what you did there ... if they don't play their cards right and I chuckled. @TheGrumbleputty that needs to be an answer, or part of an answer, not a comment. (And IMO, it's the core of a decent answer)
– KorvinStarmast
22 mins ago
1
@KorvinStarmast I actually wrote that before the edits to the question added the information about the card game. When the question was edited I laughed too.
– linksassin
20 mins ago
Upvote is specifically for "have this happen to another NPC first"
– Ifusaso
12 mins ago
Building off the above, have one NPC make it absolutely clear that he wants the players dead, through body language, overt threats, even have him rough up a character. Now, at your card game, let that NPC shuffle the cards, AND LET THE PLAYERS SPOT HIM MESSING SLIPPING A QUEEN ONTO THE TOP OF THE DECK. Have them roll perception, and fudge it if you need to, but make it clear that he's cheating. Now your players have an interesting choice to make- do they call out the cheater? Try a little cheating of their own? Start throwing punches?
– The Grumbleputty
30 mins ago
Building off the above, have one NPC make it absolutely clear that he wants the players dead, through body language, overt threats, even have him rough up a character. Now, at your card game, let that NPC shuffle the cards, AND LET THE PLAYERS SPOT HIM MESSING SLIPPING A QUEEN ONTO THE TOP OF THE DECK. Have them roll perception, and fudge it if you need to, but make it clear that he's cheating. Now your players have an interesting choice to make- do they call out the cheater? Try a little cheating of their own? Start throwing punches?
– The Grumbleputty
30 mins ago
@TheGrumbleputty That is a good idea. I worry that the players will think that stopping the guy from cheating means they are free from death though.
– linksassin
27 mins ago
@TheGrumbleputty That is a good idea. I worry that the players will think that stopping the guy from cheating means they are free from death though.
– linksassin
27 mins ago
I see what you did there ... if they don't play their cards right and I chuckled. @TheGrumbleputty that needs to be an answer, or part of an answer, not a comment. (And IMO, it's the core of a decent answer)
– KorvinStarmast
22 mins ago
I see what you did there ... if they don't play their cards right and I chuckled. @TheGrumbleputty that needs to be an answer, or part of an answer, not a comment. (And IMO, it's the core of a decent answer)
– KorvinStarmast
22 mins ago
1
1
@KorvinStarmast I actually wrote that before the edits to the question added the information about the card game. When the question was edited I laughed too.
– linksassin
20 mins ago
@KorvinStarmast I actually wrote that before the edits to the question added the information about the card game. When the question was edited I laughed too.
– linksassin
20 mins ago
Upvote is specifically for "have this happen to another NPC first"
– Ifusaso
12 mins ago
Upvote is specifically for "have this happen to another NPC first"
– Ifusaso
12 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
4
down vote
Chance and Character Death
I think Linksassin has a great answer with regard to how to narrate the risk and encounter, but I do believe it is worth addressing whether or not your players are on board with an encounter like this.
Even with enough subtle clues, creating a path to fast character death that is out of combat may create problems at the table.
If your players are fully on board with this type of encounter and are okay with it, then there is no problem. But unless you know for certain that such is the case, you run the risk of creating some very unfun drama at the table.
Even if this is the final session of a campaign and the thematic ending of "life and death is random", that could still be a huge let down to the players. Remember that they have been heavily invested in their characters and developing an encounter that is entirely based on chance where the players don't even know the rules is roughly the equivalent of Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.
Again, if you know that your players are on board with this, or they know that character death is something that happens regularly at your table, then this is less of an issue. But removing any player agency from character death is a big enough concern that I wanted to address it for you and for others considering encounters like this. We all know that characters can die, and often from poor decisions by the player, but making it happen due to random chance from a game with unknown rules may is a real concern.
answered 20 mins ago
NautArch
48.3k6168324
The lack of agency is what concerns me, which is why this question is about how to give them one last chance at exercising that agency. They have taken various wrong turns to get here, but at some point the line ends.
– SeriousBri
10 mins ago
@SeriousBri But your 'last chance' is one in which they have no agency. Providing them with a 'game' that they don't have knowledge of the rules and that most likely ends in death is removing agency. The only chance they have to win is chance itself. You might as well have them flip a coin with heads live, tails die.
– NautArch
7 mins ago
The game isn't really the relevant part, I am more than happy with a lack of agency during that part (The game is essentially a consequence of them exercising earlier agency, and their fate is literally out of their hands at this point as necessary in a realistic world). However once the outcome is selected I want to ensure they have their agency returned.
– SeriousBri
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Chance and Character Death
I think Linksassin has a great answer with regard to how to narrate the risk and encounter, but I do believe it is worth addressing whether or not your players are on board with an encounter like this.
Even with enough subtle clues, creating a path to fast character death that is out of combat may create problems at the table.
If your players are fully on board with this type of encounter and are okay with it, then there is no problem. But unless you know for certain that such is the case, you run the risk of creating some very unfun drama at the table.
Even if this is the final session of a campaign and the thematic ending of "life and death is random", that could still be a huge let down to the players. Remember that they have been heavily invested in their characters and developing an encounter that is entirely based on chance where the players don't even know the rules is roughly the equivalent of Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.
Again, if you know that your players are on board with this, or they know that character death is something that happens regularly at your table, then this is less of an issue. But removing any player agency from character death is a big enough concern that I wanted to address it for you and for others considering encounters like this. We all know that characters can die, and often from poor decisions by the player, but making it happen due to random chance from a game with unknown rules may is a real concern.
answered 20 mins ago
NautArch
48.3k6168324
The lack of agency is what concerns me, which is why this question is about how to give them one last chance at exercising that agency. They have taken various wrong turns to get here, but at some point the line ends.
– SeriousBri
10 mins ago
@SeriousBri But your 'last chance' is one in which they have no agency. Providing them with a 'game' that they don't have knowledge of the rules and that most likely ends in death is removing agency. The only chance they have to win is chance itself. You might as well have them flip a coin with heads live, tails die.
– NautArch
7 mins ago
The game isn't really the relevant part, I am more than happy with a lack of agency during that part (The game is essentially a consequence of them exercising earlier agency, and their fate is literally out of their hands at this point as necessary in a realistic world). However once the outcome is selected I want to ensure they have their agency returned.
– SeriousBri
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Chance and Character Death
I think Linksassin has a great answer with regard to how to narrate the risk and encounter, but I do believe it is worth addressing whether or not your players are on board with an encounter like this.
Even with enough subtle clues, creating a path to fast character death that is out of combat may create problems at the table.
If your players are fully on board with this type of encounter and are okay with it, then there is no problem. But unless you know for certain that such is the case, you run the risk of creating some very unfun drama at the table.
Even if this is the final session of a campaign and the thematic ending of "life and death is random", that could still be a huge let down to the players. Remember that they have been heavily invested in their characters and developing an encounter that is entirely based on chance where the players don't even know the rules is roughly the equivalent of Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.
Again, if you know that your players are on board with this, or they know that character death is something that happens regularly at your table, then this is less of an issue. But removing any player agency from character death is a big enough concern that I wanted to address it for you and for others considering encounters like this. We all know that characters can die, and often from poor decisions by the player, but making it happen due to random chance from a game with unknown rules may is a real concern.
answered 20 mins ago
NautArch
48.3k6168324
Chance and Character Death
I think Linksassin has a great answer with regard to how to narrate the risk and encounter, but I do believe it is worth addressing whether or not your players are on board with an encounter like this.
Even with enough subtle clues, creating a path to fast character death that is out of combat may create problems at the table.
If your players are fully on board with this type of encounter and are okay with it, then there is no problem. But unless you know for certain that such is the case, you run the risk of creating some very unfun drama at the table.
Even if this is the final session of a campaign and the thematic ending of "life and death is random", that could still be a huge let down to the players. Remember that they have been heavily invested in their characters and developing an encounter that is entirely based on chance where the players don't even know the rules is roughly the equivalent of Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.
Again, if you know that your players are on board with this, or they know that character death is something that happens regularly at your table, then this is less of an issue. But removing any player agency from character death is a big enough concern that I wanted to address it for you and for others considering encounters like this. We all know that characters can die, and often from poor decisions by the player, but making it happen due to random chance from a game with unknown rules may is a real concern.
answered 20 mins ago
NautArch
48.3k6168324
edited 14 mins ago
answered 20 mins ago
NautArch
48.3k6168324
answered 20 mins ago
NautArch
48.3k6168324
answered 20 mins ago
NautArch
48.3k6168324
48.3k6168324
The lack of agency is what concerns me, which is why this question is about how to give them one last chance at exercising that agency. They have taken various wrong turns to get here, but at some point the line ends.
– SeriousBri
10 mins ago
@SeriousBri But your 'last chance' is one in which they have no agency. Providing them with a 'game' that they don't have knowledge of the rules and that most likely ends in death is removing agency. The only chance they have to win is chance itself. You might as well have them flip a coin with heads live, tails die.
– NautArch
7 mins ago
The game isn't really the relevant part, I am more than happy with a lack of agency during that part (The game is essentially a consequence of them exercising earlier agency, and their fate is literally out of their hands at this point as necessary in a realistic world). However once the outcome is selected I want to ensure they have their agency returned.
– SeriousBri
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
The lack of agency is what concerns me, which is why this question is about how to give them one last chance at exercising that agency. They have taken various wrong turns to get here, but at some point the line ends.
– SeriousBri
10 mins ago
@SeriousBri But your 'last chance' is one in which they have no agency. Providing them with a 'game' that they don't have knowledge of the rules and that most likely ends in death is removing agency. The only chance they have to win is chance itself. You might as well have them flip a coin with heads live, tails die.
– NautArch
7 mins ago
The game isn't really the relevant part, I am more than happy with a lack of agency during that part (The game is essentially a consequence of them exercising earlier agency, and their fate is literally out of their hands at this point as necessary in a realistic world). However once the outcome is selected I want to ensure they have their agency returned.
– SeriousBri
2 mins ago
The lack of agency is what concerns me, which is why this question is about how to give them one last chance at exercising that agency. They have taken various wrong turns to get here, but at some point the line ends.
– SeriousBri
10 mins ago
The lack of agency is what concerns me, which is why this question is about how to give them one last chance at exercising that agency. They have taken various wrong turns to get here, but at some point the line ends.
– SeriousBri
10 mins ago
@SeriousBri But your 'last chance' is one in which they have no agency. Providing them with a 'game' that they don't have knowledge of the rules and that most likely ends in death is removing agency. The only chance they have to win is chance itself. You might as well have them flip a coin with heads live, tails die.
– NautArch
7 mins ago
@SeriousBri But your 'last chance' is one in which they have no agency. Providing them with a 'game' that they don't have knowledge of the rules and that most likely ends in death is removing agency. The only chance they have to win is chance itself. You might as well have them flip a coin with heads live, tails die.
– NautArch
7 mins ago
The game isn't really the relevant part, I am more than happy with a lack of agency during that part (The game is essentially a consequence of them exercising earlier agency, and their fate is literally out of their hands at this point as necessary in a realistic world). However once the outcome is selected I want to ensure they have their agency returned.
– SeriousBri
2 mins ago
The game isn't really the relevant part, I am more than happy with a lack of agency during that part (The game is essentially a consequence of them exercising earlier agency, and their fate is literally out of their hands at this point as necessary in a realistic world). However once the outcome is selected I want to ensure they have their agency returned.
– SeriousBri
2 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Use some Narrative Emphasis
As they're being led to the edge, spend some time describing the scene in detail, playing up how threatening the cliff looks. Mention offhand that they're pretty sure that if they were thrown off, they wouldn't survive it. Put the idea in their head that they're near a cliff, they're not in control of the situation, and that if they go off the cliff they'll die, and they should be able to connect the dots themselves.
answered 21 mins ago
Ben Barden
7,8722049
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Use some Narrative Emphasis
As they're being led to the edge, spend some time describing the scene in detail, playing up how threatening the cliff looks. Mention offhand that they're pretty sure that if they were thrown off, they wouldn't survive it. Put the idea in their head that they're near a cliff, they're not in control of the situation, and that if they go off the cliff they'll die, and they should be able to connect the dots themselves.
answered 21 mins ago
Ben Barden
7,8722049
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Use some Narrative Emphasis
As they're being led to the edge, spend some time describing the scene in detail, playing up how threatening the cliff looks. Mention offhand that they're pretty sure that if they were thrown off, they wouldn't survive it. Put the idea in their head that they're near a cliff, they're not in control of the situation, and that if they go off the cliff they'll die, and they should be able to connect the dots themselves.
answered 21 mins ago
Ben Barden
7,8722049
Use some Narrative Emphasis
As they're being led to the edge, spend some time describing the scene in detail, playing up how threatening the cliff looks. Mention offhand that they're pretty sure that if they were thrown off, they wouldn't survive it. Put the idea in their head that they're near a cliff, they're not in control of the situation, and that if they go off the cliff they'll die, and they should be able to connect the dots themselves.
answered 21 mins ago
Ben Barden
7,8722049
answered 21 mins ago
Ben Barden
7,8722049
answered 21 mins ago
Ben Barden
7,8722049
answered 21 mins ago
Ben Barden
7,8722049
7,8722049
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
The classic way to do this is a riddle, prophecy or cryptic fortune telling
The adventurers have an encounter with a peculiar or extraordinary figure who says something cryptic. It could be a dramatic encounter or just a brief chance encoutner.
Such as when the witch tells Julius Caesar "Beware the ides of March!"
The message could come from a sphinx, a dragon, a hag, a cleric acting as a divine oracle, a jester, or any quirky fey creature... there are plenty of options.
Since they're going to potentially fall to their death, the cryptic saying could be something like "at a great height you'll soar" or seomthing that is variously interpretable.
answered 3 hours ago
Valley Lad
552210
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
The classic way to do this is a riddle, prophecy or cryptic fortune telling
The adventurers have an encounter with a peculiar or extraordinary figure who says something cryptic. It could be a dramatic encounter or just a brief chance encoutner.
Such as when the witch tells Julius Caesar "Beware the ides of March!"
The message could come from a sphinx, a dragon, a hag, a cleric acting as a divine oracle, a jester, or any quirky fey creature... there are plenty of options.
Since they're going to potentially fall to their death, the cryptic saying could be something like "at a great height you'll soar" or seomthing that is variously interpretable.
answered 3 hours ago
Valley Lad
552210
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The classic way to do this is a riddle, prophecy or cryptic fortune telling
The adventurers have an encounter with a peculiar or extraordinary figure who says something cryptic. It could be a dramatic encounter or just a brief chance encoutner.
Such as when the witch tells Julius Caesar "Beware the ides of March!"
The message could come from a sphinx, a dragon, a hag, a cleric acting as a divine oracle, a jester, or any quirky fey creature... there are plenty of options.
Since they're going to potentially fall to their death, the cryptic saying could be something like "at a great height you'll soar" or seomthing that is variously interpretable.
answered 3 hours ago
Valley Lad
552210
The classic way to do this is a riddle, prophecy or cryptic fortune telling
The adventurers have an encounter with a peculiar or extraordinary figure who says something cryptic. It could be a dramatic encounter or just a brief chance encoutner.
Such as when the witch tells Julius Caesar "Beware the ides of March!"
The message could come from a sphinx, a dragon, a hag, a cleric acting as a divine oracle, a jester, or any quirky fey creature... there are plenty of options.
Since they're going to potentially fall to their death, the cryptic saying could be something like "at a great height you'll soar" or seomthing that is variously interpretable.
answered 3 hours ago
Valley Lad
552210
answered 3 hours ago
Valley Lad
552210
answered 3 hours ago
Valley Lad
552210
answered 3 hours ago
Valley Lad
552210
552210
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f134797%2fhow-do-i-clearly-foreshadow-a-potential-out-of-combat-death%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
2
It's best to tag with the game you're actually playing rather than try to make it unnecessarily broad.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
1
@PurpleMonkey Why though? It is purely system agnostic.
– AntiDrondert
3 hours ago
@AntiDrondert read the linked meta.
– Purple Monkey
3 hours ago
2
Why exactly won't the NPCs tell of the chance of death? Can you tell more about the nature of the "game of chance"?
– Szega
3 hours ago
Are the players on board with this sort of story telling? Seems ominously close to "a rock falls on you and you die"
– Grosscol
17 mins ago