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Combat in a subterranean environment and how it would be waged
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Dwarves and their underground cities and the vast network of tunnels that connect them, a stereotype older than Tolkien. What I wonder is how would warfare be waged in this tightly restricted area?
Say there are two sides, one which is numerically superior,the rebels, by a wide margin but has little in the way of training, armor, and melee weapons but does have access to muskets and explosives to combat the other side, the nobles, which do have access to trained and capable infantry that are heavily armored and armed but opposed to the use of muskets for their limited use underground and explosives for the risk of damaging tunnels and vital infrastructure. The rebels have an interest in taking over the nation and ousting the nobles by either exile or execution. Now specifically how would warfare be waged with as little damage done to infrastructures such as tunnels, ventilation shafts, and the pipes that carry water and air throughout the nation? This infrastructure is much more expensive to replace than maintain and the rebels wish to keep as much infrastructure intact as possible because of their interest in running the place after the nobles are defeated.
With this in mind, what strategies could each side employ to either quell the rebellion or oust the nobles with as little damage to infrastructure as possible?
warfare
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Vaolor
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up vote
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Dwarves and their underground cities and the vast network of tunnels that connect them, a stereotype older than Tolkien. What I wonder is how would warfare be waged in this tightly restricted area?
Say there are two sides, one which is numerically superior,the rebels, by a wide margin but has little in the way of training, armor, and melee weapons but does have access to muskets and explosives to combat the other side, the nobles, which do have access to trained and capable infantry that are heavily armored and armed but opposed to the use of muskets for their limited use underground and explosives for the risk of damaging tunnels and vital infrastructure. The rebels have an interest in taking over the nation and ousting the nobles by either exile or execution. Now specifically how would warfare be waged with as little damage done to infrastructures such as tunnels, ventilation shafts, and the pipes that carry water and air throughout the nation? This infrastructure is much more expensive to replace than maintain and the rebels wish to keep as much infrastructure intact as possible because of their interest in running the place after the nobles are defeated.
With this in mind, what strategies could each side employ to either quell the rebellion or oust the nobles with as little damage to infrastructure as possible?
warfare
asked 5 hours ago
Vaolor
10119
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Vaolor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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I'll let those who know warfare answer this, but let me suggest you check out Cappadocia. There are entire subterranean citadels there, some dating back to pre-Greek Phrygians. Given the history of Asia Minor, there must have been any number of battles fought in those tunnels, and the defenders surely tried to preserve as much of the infrastructure as possible.
– Tumbislav
4 hours ago
1
Toxic gas: telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4240365/…
– Alberto Yagos
3 hours ago
@AlbertoYagos But how would they control the gas and how would it be deployed? It can't just be pumped into the ventilation because that air is also carried to numerous other locations which may include friendly personal.
– Vaolor
3 hours ago
Muskets and explosives in caves/tunnels are a definite non-starter. There's a TREMENDOUS (really more than you can imagine) amount of smoke and noise, and no place for it to go.
– RonJohn
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Dwarves and their underground cities and the vast network of tunnels that connect them, a stereotype older than Tolkien. What I wonder is how would warfare be waged in this tightly restricted area?
Say there are two sides, one which is numerically superior,the rebels, by a wide margin but has little in the way of training, armor, and melee weapons but does have access to muskets and explosives to combat the other side, the nobles, which do have access to trained and capable infantry that are heavily armored and armed but opposed to the use of muskets for their limited use underground and explosives for the risk of damaging tunnels and vital infrastructure. The rebels have an interest in taking over the nation and ousting the nobles by either exile or execution. Now specifically how would warfare be waged with as little damage done to infrastructures such as tunnels, ventilation shafts, and the pipes that carry water and air throughout the nation? This infrastructure is much more expensive to replace than maintain and the rebels wish to keep as much infrastructure intact as possible because of their interest in running the place after the nobles are defeated.
With this in mind, what strategies could each side employ to either quell the rebellion or oust the nobles with as little damage to infrastructure as possible?
warfare
asked 5 hours ago
Vaolor
10119
New contributor
Vaolor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Dwarves and their underground cities and the vast network of tunnels that connect them, a stereotype older than Tolkien. What I wonder is how would warfare be waged in this tightly restricted area?
Say there are two sides, one which is numerically superior,the rebels, by a wide margin but has little in the way of training, armor, and melee weapons but does have access to muskets and explosives to combat the other side, the nobles, which do have access to trained and capable infantry that are heavily armored and armed but opposed to the use of muskets for their limited use underground and explosives for the risk of damaging tunnels and vital infrastructure. The rebels have an interest in taking over the nation and ousting the nobles by either exile or execution. Now specifically how would warfare be waged with as little damage done to infrastructures such as tunnels, ventilation shafts, and the pipes that carry water and air throughout the nation? This infrastructure is much more expensive to replace than maintain and the rebels wish to keep as much infrastructure intact as possible because of their interest in running the place after the nobles are defeated.
With this in mind, what strategies could each side employ to either quell the rebellion or oust the nobles with as little damage to infrastructure as possible?
warfare
warfare
asked 5 hours ago
Vaolor
10119
New contributor
Vaolor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 5 hours ago
Vaolor
10119
New contributor
Vaolor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 5 hours ago
Vaolor
10119
New contributor
Vaolor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 5 hours ago
Vaolor
10119
asked 5 hours ago
Vaolor
10119
10119
New contributor
Vaolor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Vaolor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Vaolor is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I'll let those who know warfare answer this, but let me suggest you check out Cappadocia. There are entire subterranean citadels there, some dating back to pre-Greek Phrygians. Given the history of Asia Minor, there must have been any number of battles fought in those tunnels, and the defenders surely tried to preserve as much of the infrastructure as possible.
– Tumbislav
4 hours ago
1
Toxic gas: telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4240365/…
– Alberto Yagos
3 hours ago
@AlbertoYagos But how would they control the gas and how would it be deployed? It can't just be pumped into the ventilation because that air is also carried to numerous other locations which may include friendly personal.
– Vaolor
3 hours ago
Muskets and explosives in caves/tunnels are a definite non-starter. There's a TREMENDOUS (really more than you can imagine) amount of smoke and noise, and no place for it to go.
– RonJohn
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
I'll let those who know warfare answer this, but let me suggest you check out Cappadocia. There are entire subterranean citadels there, some dating back to pre-Greek Phrygians. Given the history of Asia Minor, there must have been any number of battles fought in those tunnels, and the defenders surely tried to preserve as much of the infrastructure as possible.
– Tumbislav
4 hours ago
1
Toxic gas: telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4240365/…
– Alberto Yagos
3 hours ago
@AlbertoYagos But how would they control the gas and how would it be deployed? It can't just be pumped into the ventilation because that air is also carried to numerous other locations which may include friendly personal.
– Vaolor
3 hours ago
Muskets and explosives in caves/tunnels are a definite non-starter. There's a TREMENDOUS (really more than you can imagine) amount of smoke and noise, and no place for it to go.
– RonJohn
1 hour ago
I'll let those who know warfare answer this, but let me suggest you check out Cappadocia. There are entire subterranean citadels there, some dating back to pre-Greek Phrygians. Given the history of Asia Minor, there must have been any number of battles fought in those tunnels, and the defenders surely tried to preserve as much of the infrastructure as possible.
– Tumbislav
4 hours ago
I'll let those who know warfare answer this, but let me suggest you check out Cappadocia. There are entire subterranean citadels there, some dating back to pre-Greek Phrygians. Given the history of Asia Minor, there must have been any number of battles fought in those tunnels, and the defenders surely tried to preserve as much of the infrastructure as possible.
– Tumbislav
4 hours ago
1
1
Toxic gas: telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4240365/…
– Alberto Yagos
3 hours ago
Toxic gas: telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4240365/…
– Alberto Yagos
3 hours ago
@AlbertoYagos But how would they control the gas and how would it be deployed? It can't just be pumped into the ventilation because that air is also carried to numerous other locations which may include friendly personal.
– Vaolor
3 hours ago
@AlbertoYagos But how would they control the gas and how would it be deployed? It can't just be pumped into the ventilation because that air is also carried to numerous other locations which may include friendly personal.
– Vaolor
3 hours ago
Muskets and explosives in caves/tunnels are a definite non-starter. There's a TREMENDOUS (really more than you can imagine) amount of smoke and noise, and no place for it to go.
– RonJohn
1 hour ago
Muskets and explosives in caves/tunnels are a definite non-starter. There's a TREMENDOUS (really more than you can imagine) amount of smoke and noise, and no place for it to go.
– RonJohn
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
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oldest
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up vote
2
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Air is life.
Georgius Agricola, De Re Metallica, Ventilation of Mines, 16th Century
In stories of underground civilization, short shrift is given to ventilation. But ventilation is paramount if you are working or living underground. This is best laid out in the history of mining and working in deep mines. Gases coming up from below can be poisonous, or explosive, or kill by excluding oxygen. Your own efforts can consume the oxygen, especially if you have fires. The illustration shows various methods for getting air exchange down into a mine including bellows, pumps. One could also have a shaft in which there is a fire to produce an up current and a separate shaft to allow ingress of fresh air. Read more - https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
In any case, fresh air is the life blood of any underground endeavor. There will be connections to the surface for ventilation (as stated in the question) and control of these will be control of the underground empire.
https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
answered 26 mins ago
Willk
94.3k22183402
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up vote
1
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Light, or more accurately, the ability to operate in the absence of light is the great strategic advantage that the rebel workers have over the nobles and their trained militia. The militia was trained to handle combat with other nations, out in the daylight, above ground. Meanwhile, the working class, who became the rebels have been living in the caves for their entire lives. They are intimately familiar with their battleground and the intricacies of working in the absence of light.
answered 3 hours ago
Henry Taylor
43.2k867156
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Air is life.
Georgius Agricola, De Re Metallica, Ventilation of Mines, 16th Century
In stories of underground civilization, short shrift is given to ventilation. But ventilation is paramount if you are working or living underground. This is best laid out in the history of mining and working in deep mines. Gases coming up from below can be poisonous, or explosive, or kill by excluding oxygen. Your own efforts can consume the oxygen, especially if you have fires. The illustration shows various methods for getting air exchange down into a mine including bellows, pumps. One could also have a shaft in which there is a fire to produce an up current and a separate shaft to allow ingress of fresh air. Read more - https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
In any case, fresh air is the life blood of any underground endeavor. There will be connections to the surface for ventilation (as stated in the question) and control of these will be control of the underground empire.
https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
answered 26 mins ago
Willk
94.3k22183402
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Air is life.
Georgius Agricola, De Re Metallica, Ventilation of Mines, 16th Century
In stories of underground civilization, short shrift is given to ventilation. But ventilation is paramount if you are working or living underground. This is best laid out in the history of mining and working in deep mines. Gases coming up from below can be poisonous, or explosive, or kill by excluding oxygen. Your own efforts can consume the oxygen, especially if you have fires. The illustration shows various methods for getting air exchange down into a mine including bellows, pumps. One could also have a shaft in which there is a fire to produce an up current and a separate shaft to allow ingress of fresh air. Read more - https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
In any case, fresh air is the life blood of any underground endeavor. There will be connections to the surface for ventilation (as stated in the question) and control of these will be control of the underground empire.
https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
answered 26 mins ago
Willk
94.3k22183402
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Air is life.
Georgius Agricola, De Re Metallica, Ventilation of Mines, 16th Century
In stories of underground civilization, short shrift is given to ventilation. But ventilation is paramount if you are working or living underground. This is best laid out in the history of mining and working in deep mines. Gases coming up from below can be poisonous, or explosive, or kill by excluding oxygen. Your own efforts can consume the oxygen, especially if you have fires. The illustration shows various methods for getting air exchange down into a mine including bellows, pumps. One could also have a shaft in which there is a fire to produce an up current and a separate shaft to allow ingress of fresh air. Read more - https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
In any case, fresh air is the life blood of any underground endeavor. There will be connections to the surface for ventilation (as stated in the question) and control of these will be control of the underground empire.
https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
answered 26 mins ago
Willk
94.3k22183402
Air is life.
Georgius Agricola, De Re Metallica, Ventilation of Mines, 16th Century
In stories of underground civilization, short shrift is given to ventilation. But ventilation is paramount if you are working or living underground. This is best laid out in the history of mining and working in deep mines. Gases coming up from below can be poisonous, or explosive, or kill by excluding oxygen. Your own efforts can consume the oxygen, especially if you have fires. The illustration shows various methods for getting air exchange down into a mine including bellows, pumps. One could also have a shaft in which there is a fire to produce an up current and a separate shaft to allow ingress of fresh air. Read more - https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
In any case, fresh air is the life blood of any underground endeavor. There will be connections to the surface for ventilation (as stated in the question) and control of these will be control of the underground empire.
https://web.mst.edu/~tien/218/218-VentHistory.pdf
answered 26 mins ago
Willk
94.3k22183402
answered 26 mins ago
Willk
94.3k22183402
answered 26 mins ago
Willk
94.3k22183402
answered 26 mins ago
Willk
94.3k22183402
94.3k22183402
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Light, or more accurately, the ability to operate in the absence of light is the great strategic advantage that the rebel workers have over the nobles and their trained militia. The militia was trained to handle combat with other nations, out in the daylight, above ground. Meanwhile, the working class, who became the rebels have been living in the caves for their entire lives. They are intimately familiar with their battleground and the intricacies of working in the absence of light.
answered 3 hours ago
Henry Taylor
43.2k867156
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Light, or more accurately, the ability to operate in the absence of light is the great strategic advantage that the rebel workers have over the nobles and their trained militia. The militia was trained to handle combat with other nations, out in the daylight, above ground. Meanwhile, the working class, who became the rebels have been living in the caves for their entire lives. They are intimately familiar with their battleground and the intricacies of working in the absence of light.
answered 3 hours ago
Henry Taylor
43.2k867156
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Light, or more accurately, the ability to operate in the absence of light is the great strategic advantage that the rebel workers have over the nobles and their trained militia. The militia was trained to handle combat with other nations, out in the daylight, above ground. Meanwhile, the working class, who became the rebels have been living in the caves for their entire lives. They are intimately familiar with their battleground and the intricacies of working in the absence of light.
answered 3 hours ago
Henry Taylor
43.2k867156
Light, or more accurately, the ability to operate in the absence of light is the great strategic advantage that the rebel workers have over the nobles and their trained militia. The militia was trained to handle combat with other nations, out in the daylight, above ground. Meanwhile, the working class, who became the rebels have been living in the caves for their entire lives. They are intimately familiar with their battleground and the intricacies of working in the absence of light.
answered 3 hours ago
Henry Taylor
43.2k867156
answered 3 hours ago
Henry Taylor
43.2k867156
answered 3 hours ago
Henry Taylor
43.2k867156
answered 3 hours ago
Henry Taylor
43.2k867156
43.2k867156
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
Vaolor is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Vaolor is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Vaolor is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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I'll let those who know warfare answer this, but let me suggest you check out Cappadocia. There are entire subterranean citadels there, some dating back to pre-Greek Phrygians. Given the history of Asia Minor, there must have been any number of battles fought in those tunnels, and the defenders surely tried to preserve as much of the infrastructure as possible.
– Tumbislav
4 hours ago
1
Toxic gas: telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4240365/…
– Alberto Yagos
3 hours ago
@AlbertoYagos But how would they control the gas and how would it be deployed? It can't just be pumped into the ventilation because that air is also carried to numerous other locations which may include friendly personal.
– Vaolor
3 hours ago
Muskets and explosives in caves/tunnels are a definite non-starter. There's a TREMENDOUS (really more than you can imagine) amount of smoke and noise, and no place for it to go.
– RonJohn
1 hour ago