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Is it possible to have a “high income†as an engineer, or do I have to go for management jobs or having my own company? [on hold]
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Note that I have graduated not long ago - so I do not have much work experience.
My situation:
- I am 26.
- I have a double-degree from a top French engineering school and a top 10 US university.
- I have worked as an engineer in IT R&D for a couple years.
- I am now doing a PhD (in my first year) in 3D Vision / AI in a famous French research institute.
My question came initially from the fact that, once I finish my PhD, my expected initial salary seems to be about 45k€ at best where I work now - while people in other domains (e.g. consulting / medical field) or countries (UK / US) seem to earn way, way more. The difference is even bigger with executives in public companies (400k€+).
So my conclusion is that, apparently, if I stay working as just an engineer (and even more so in France), I will hardly ever have a "high income" (e.g. 100k€+).
It seems that only by going for management jobs or having my own company would I have a higher income. And the sooner the better, as people who are in executive positions do not seem to have worked for a long time in technical positions.
Can an engineer earn as much as people in executive positions? Or am I missing something obvious here?
management salary france
asked yesterday
Adr
412
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put on hold as off-topic by gnat, 385703, paparazzo, Richard U, IDrinkandIKnowThings yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions asking for advice on a specific choice, such as what job to take or what skills to learn, are difficult to answer objectively and are rarely useful for anyone else. Instead of asking which decision to make, try asking how to make the decision, or for more specific details about one element of the decision. (More information)" – gnat, paparazzo, IDrinkandIKnowThings
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Note that I have graduated not long ago - so I do not have much work experience.
My situation:
- I am 26.
- I have a double-degree from a top French engineering school and a top 10 US university.
- I have worked as an engineer in IT R&D for a couple years.
- I am now doing a PhD (in my first year) in 3D Vision / AI in a famous French research institute.
My question came initially from the fact that, once I finish my PhD, my expected initial salary seems to be about 45k€ at best where I work now - while people in other domains (e.g. consulting / medical field) or countries (UK / US) seem to earn way, way more. The difference is even bigger with executives in public companies (400k€+).
So my conclusion is that, apparently, if I stay working as just an engineer (and even more so in France), I will hardly ever have a "high income" (e.g. 100k€+).
It seems that only by going for management jobs or having my own company would I have a higher income. And the sooner the better, as people who are in executive positions do not seem to have worked for a long time in technical positions.
Can an engineer earn as much as people in executive positions? Or am I missing something obvious here?
management salary france
asked yesterday
Adr
412
New contributor
Adr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
put on hold as off-topic by gnat, 385703, paparazzo, Richard U, IDrinkandIKnowThings yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions asking for advice on a specific choice, such as what job to take or what skills to learn, are difficult to answer objectively and are rarely useful for anyone else. Instead of asking which decision to make, try asking how to make the decision, or for more specific details about one element of the decision. (More information)" – gnat, paparazzo, IDrinkandIKnowThings
@paparazzo Could you give a reference of what would be the average salary for someone in my situation? Thanks.
– Adr
yesterday
4
I understand why people are down-voting but please, don't just down-vote because the case seems too specific to OP's case to be valuable to others to learn from. OP is in a situation that many are in or will be in. He's spent a lot of time studying in school and doesn't quite understand how he can use what he's learned to get away from a low-paying job. At least give OP a comment on how he can improve his question so that it's more relevant, although I think it's relevant enough, when giving him the down-vote.
– Jonast92
yesterday
I think it is important to consider that you are comparing "high income" overall with "average income" of a specific profession. The average tends to ignore experience and variation between specific positions and how demanding the job is. Instead, consider what the top 10-25% of the profession make, especially with 5 years of experience in that role, and don't fall into the trap of comparing between very different countries as no simple exchange rate tells you the real story. Most professions are also hierarchy's, so that moving up within often means changing title/role, though not always.
– BrianH
yesterday
a trader after one year will make around a million if they're good, and in the 300++ range otherwise. sales will make a lot more than the engineers too, if you are personable try sales
– bharal
yesterday
1
Median income at Facebook is over $200,000. Many senior software engineers earn over $100,000 at several firms including Microsoft, Amazon, and Google.
– Glen Pierce
16 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Note that I have graduated not long ago - so I do not have much work experience.
My situation:
- I am 26.
- I have a double-degree from a top French engineering school and a top 10 US university.
- I have worked as an engineer in IT R&D for a couple years.
- I am now doing a PhD (in my first year) in 3D Vision / AI in a famous French research institute.
My question came initially from the fact that, once I finish my PhD, my expected initial salary seems to be about 45k€ at best where I work now - while people in other domains (e.g. consulting / medical field) or countries (UK / US) seem to earn way, way more. The difference is even bigger with executives in public companies (400k€+).
So my conclusion is that, apparently, if I stay working as just an engineer (and even more so in France), I will hardly ever have a "high income" (e.g. 100k€+).
It seems that only by going for management jobs or having my own company would I have a higher income. And the sooner the better, as people who are in executive positions do not seem to have worked for a long time in technical positions.
Can an engineer earn as much as people in executive positions? Or am I missing something obvious here?
management salary france
asked yesterday
Adr
412
New contributor
Adr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Note that I have graduated not long ago - so I do not have much work experience.
My situation:
- I am 26.
- I have a double-degree from a top French engineering school and a top 10 US university.
- I have worked as an engineer in IT R&D for a couple years.
- I am now doing a PhD (in my first year) in 3D Vision / AI in a famous French research institute.
My question came initially from the fact that, once I finish my PhD, my expected initial salary seems to be about 45k€ at best where I work now - while people in other domains (e.g. consulting / medical field) or countries (UK / US) seem to earn way, way more. The difference is even bigger with executives in public companies (400k€+).
So my conclusion is that, apparently, if I stay working as just an engineer (and even more so in France), I will hardly ever have a "high income" (e.g. 100k€+).
It seems that only by going for management jobs or having my own company would I have a higher income. And the sooner the better, as people who are in executive positions do not seem to have worked for a long time in technical positions.
Can an engineer earn as much as people in executive positions? Or am I missing something obvious here?
management salary france
management salary france
asked yesterday
Adr
412
New contributor
Adr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked yesterday
Adr
412
New contributor
Adr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 14 mins ago
asked yesterday
Adr
412
New contributor
Adr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked yesterday
Adr
412
asked yesterday
Adr
412
412
New contributor
Adr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Adr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Adr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
put on hold as off-topic by gnat, 385703, paparazzo, Richard U, IDrinkandIKnowThings yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions asking for advice on a specific choice, such as what job to take or what skills to learn, are difficult to answer objectively and are rarely useful for anyone else. Instead of asking which decision to make, try asking how to make the decision, or for more specific details about one element of the decision. (More information)" – gnat, paparazzo, IDrinkandIKnowThings
put on hold as off-topic by gnat, 385703, paparazzo, Richard U, IDrinkandIKnowThings yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions asking for advice on a specific choice, such as what job to take or what skills to learn, are difficult to answer objectively and are rarely useful for anyone else. Instead of asking which decision to make, try asking how to make the decision, or for more specific details about one element of the decision. (More information)" – gnat, paparazzo, IDrinkandIKnowThings
@paparazzo Could you give a reference of what would be the average salary for someone in my situation? Thanks.
– Adr
yesterday
4
I understand why people are down-voting but please, don't just down-vote because the case seems too specific to OP's case to be valuable to others to learn from. OP is in a situation that many are in or will be in. He's spent a lot of time studying in school and doesn't quite understand how he can use what he's learned to get away from a low-paying job. At least give OP a comment on how he can improve his question so that it's more relevant, although I think it's relevant enough, when giving him the down-vote.
– Jonast92
yesterday
I think it is important to consider that you are comparing "high income" overall with "average income" of a specific profession. The average tends to ignore experience and variation between specific positions and how demanding the job is. Instead, consider what the top 10-25% of the profession make, especially with 5 years of experience in that role, and don't fall into the trap of comparing between very different countries as no simple exchange rate tells you the real story. Most professions are also hierarchy's, so that moving up within often means changing title/role, though not always.
– BrianH
yesterday
a trader after one year will make around a million if they're good, and in the 300++ range otherwise. sales will make a lot more than the engineers too, if you are personable try sales
– bharal
yesterday
1
Median income at Facebook is over $200,000. Many senior software engineers earn over $100,000 at several firms including Microsoft, Amazon, and Google.
– Glen Pierce
16 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
@paparazzo Could you give a reference of what would be the average salary for someone in my situation? Thanks.
– Adr
yesterday
4
I understand why people are down-voting but please, don't just down-vote because the case seems too specific to OP's case to be valuable to others to learn from. OP is in a situation that many are in or will be in. He's spent a lot of time studying in school and doesn't quite understand how he can use what he's learned to get away from a low-paying job. At least give OP a comment on how he can improve his question so that it's more relevant, although I think it's relevant enough, when giving him the down-vote.
– Jonast92
yesterday
I think it is important to consider that you are comparing "high income" overall with "average income" of a specific profession. The average tends to ignore experience and variation between specific positions and how demanding the job is. Instead, consider what the top 10-25% of the profession make, especially with 5 years of experience in that role, and don't fall into the trap of comparing between very different countries as no simple exchange rate tells you the real story. Most professions are also hierarchy's, so that moving up within often means changing title/role, though not always.
– BrianH
yesterday
a trader after one year will make around a million if they're good, and in the 300++ range otherwise. sales will make a lot more than the engineers too, if you are personable try sales
– bharal
yesterday
1
Median income at Facebook is over $200,000. Many senior software engineers earn over $100,000 at several firms including Microsoft, Amazon, and Google.
– Glen Pierce
16 hours ago
@paparazzo Could you give a reference of what would be the average salary for someone in my situation? Thanks.
– Adr
yesterday
@paparazzo Could you give a reference of what would be the average salary for someone in my situation? Thanks.
– Adr
yesterday
4
4
I understand why people are down-voting but please, don't just down-vote because the case seems too specific to OP's case to be valuable to others to learn from. OP is in a situation that many are in or will be in. He's spent a lot of time studying in school and doesn't quite understand how he can use what he's learned to get away from a low-paying job. At least give OP a comment on how he can improve his question so that it's more relevant, although I think it's relevant enough, when giving him the down-vote.
– Jonast92
yesterday
I understand why people are down-voting but please, don't just down-vote because the case seems too specific to OP's case to be valuable to others to learn from. OP is in a situation that many are in or will be in. He's spent a lot of time studying in school and doesn't quite understand how he can use what he's learned to get away from a low-paying job. At least give OP a comment on how he can improve his question so that it's more relevant, although I think it's relevant enough, when giving him the down-vote.
– Jonast92
yesterday
I think it is important to consider that you are comparing "high income" overall with "average income" of a specific profession. The average tends to ignore experience and variation between specific positions and how demanding the job is. Instead, consider what the top 10-25% of the profession make, especially with 5 years of experience in that role, and don't fall into the trap of comparing between very different countries as no simple exchange rate tells you the real story. Most professions are also hierarchy's, so that moving up within often means changing title/role, though not always.
– BrianH
yesterday
I think it is important to consider that you are comparing "high income" overall with "average income" of a specific profession. The average tends to ignore experience and variation between specific positions and how demanding the job is. Instead, consider what the top 10-25% of the profession make, especially with 5 years of experience in that role, and don't fall into the trap of comparing between very different countries as no simple exchange rate tells you the real story. Most professions are also hierarchy's, so that moving up within often means changing title/role, though not always.
– BrianH
yesterday
a trader after one year will make around a million if they're good, and in the 300++ range otherwise. sales will make a lot more than the engineers too, if you are personable try sales
– bharal
yesterday
a trader after one year will make around a million if they're good, and in the 300++ range otherwise. sales will make a lot more than the engineers too, if you are personable try sales
– bharal
yesterday
1
1
Median income at Facebook is over $200,000. Many senior software engineers earn over $100,000 at several firms including Microsoft, Amazon, and Google.
– Glen Pierce
16 hours ago
Median income at Facebook is over $200,000. Many senior software engineers earn over $100,000 at several firms including Microsoft, Amazon, and Google.
– Glen Pierce
16 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
4 Answers
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Engineers can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set at the right place in a few years of working.
The thing is, it's not about what your education is or what your job title is, it's only about how much value you're providing and how much value you're perceived to provide.
If your company think you're worth 45k to them, then you need to convince them that you're worth more or abandon ship. Find another company that thinks you're worth more, acquire more valuable skills or find a way to impact millions, that way you will make millions.
In the end it doesn't matter what you do or where you live, although baselines change depending on area and location, its not going to make a huge difference being in management vs. engineering vs. something else.
Starting a own company is not easy and is not safe, but neither is working for someone else. Figure out what makes sense for you. If you're not ready for the entrepreneur life then find an employee who values your skill-set. You may need some experience first though before one can really assess you.
If you don't have work experience then you need to start with a lower salary than you'd maybe like, in order to learn, but show that you're capable of delivering products and or value and you'll be in the clear soon. Our education doesn't really start until after we finish school. Simply having a degree is never a guarantee for a well paying job.
I recommend checking out MJ Demarco's books on personal finances and potential entrepreneurship if you're interested in figuring out how the world works and how you can adjust to it.
answered yesterday
Jonast92
7,10122333
can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set100k in what? Euro? USD? Zimbabwe dollars? And in what location? Salaries vary quite a lot in different locations.
– Martin Tournoij
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I don't know the French job market, but in general:
Being a manager or owning your own company are no more of a guarantee of high income than being really good at a high paying job/industry. For the most part, only top level managers would be considered high income and many small/start-up companies fail or never achieve high income. There is much more risk in starting your own company and if the high income happens it likely will take years to get there.
If high income is your career driver, you need to understand that the numbers are against you and be prepared for not meeting that goal. For every Mark Zuckerberg, there are thousands and thousands of John Does. By all means go for it, but understand the battle ahead of you.
answered yesterday
cdkMoose
9,63622143
Thank you for your answer, I hadn't thought about the failure aspect.
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
The short answer is no. You can enjoy a high income in a non-management job with a company that you do not own. Also, having a management job or a company that you own in no way guarantees a high income for you.
The income you can expect is a function of how rare your skills are and how much value applying those skills can generate. This is true whether we are talking about a management position, an entrepreneurial venture, or a clock-punching type job.
You have:
An undergraduate engineering degree (as do thousands of others in France, I would imagine)
An undergraduate degree from a "top school" (quotation marks because
it's hard to define how much that is worth in terms of your ability
as an engineer).Relatively little work experience (on the scale of entire careers--
there are 3-4 decades to go)That work experience is in a specific field (I don't know how much
money 3D vision applications generate)
I'd also like to point out that your expected salary after completing your PhD already seems to be rather above average for France (from a quick, simple Google search the mean salary appears to be ~36,000 Euros per year).
So, a few points:
What's your cutoff for a "high" income?
The largest numbers are the ones that virtually nobody gets-- there is no method that you should expect to situate you in a job that pays as much as Warren Buffet. Even other high-level, professional investors generally make far less than he does. If that's your reference point, you've got a very difficult-to-reach goal.
Is your area of focus in your current job (or current field) one
that commands a lot of economic activity?In the U.S. (I'm not familiar enough with France to give you a good example local to that country) relatively little money flows to or through social workers, and as a result social workers tend to make very little money. Those jobs essentially never deliver six-figure salaries, whether in a management role or not. If 3D vision is largely in an R&D stage, with little commercial activity resulting from current work, then the amount of money available will be limited.
The value of money is not equal everywhere.
It probably costs a lot more to live and work in downtown Paris than it would to do the same tasks in some small, remote village. Rates of pay in different regions tend to reflect this. So focusing on nominal income alone may be misleading (it's not that you wouldn't be wealthy with a high salary in an area with a high cost of living, just that you would be allocating a good portion of your wealth to living in an expensive area).
The more replaceable you are, the less ability you have to demand
high compensation.If there are 10,000 3D vision engineers available to work in France
you are much more likely to be undercut on compensation demands than
if there were 100. A manager earning 400,000 Euros per year is (at
least perceived to be) an elite manager, offering things that
other managers don't. You can become elite in any field, not just
management.
tl;dr: your ability to command a high salary depends on a lot of factors, of which your field of work is only one. A high salary will follow most easily from being difficult to replace in a field which sees a lot of money move around. If a high salary were simply a matter of a few plain choices, everyone would have one.
answered yesterday
Upper_Case
71917
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up vote
1
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The problem with your analysis is that you are looking at consultants and managers who managed to get very far, be very successful. This selection bias makes you see your position worse than it really is.
For example, I can tell you as a former management consultant that really well-paid are:
- positions in just a few (3? 4?) companies. I don't know numbers but would guess that more than 200 people apply for every opening there.
- high positions (senior manager, partner) in most consulting companies. As a senior manager, you will get 100k+ but very rarely 150k+. As a partner, you will get much more of course but only a small, tiny minority gets to this stage. Most people spend just a few years in management consulting since the work times are crazy and in many companies you hardly have a private life while working like that.
And to get there you need to go through a process, which is much more difficult to influence than your chances to get a good engineering job. Interviews in business have much more to do with soft skills and whether someone likes you than with your objective skills.
The risk is you will stay for years as a management consultant earning 50-80k.
In engineering the distribution of salaries is different. You can check it in your own country, but at least in mine (another EU country), the mean (and median) salary for engineering jobs is much higher than for other jobs.
The probability you will have difficulties finding a job is much lower too.
The work-life balance is incomparably better.
Last but not least, by developing in engineering you can switch to consulting or management very easily. And plenty of engineers take on management tasks at some point. But turning into a management track from the very beginning you are losing something that could profit from.
Basically, as a good engineer, your way up the salary ladder is much more secure - although in some cases slower - than on the management track, where the competition is much larger and the probability of failing huge.
answered yesterday
385703
6,58951239
Thanks for your answer. This kind of insights is why I came here :)
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
Engineers can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set at the right place in a few years of working.
The thing is, it's not about what your education is or what your job title is, it's only about how much value you're providing and how much value you're perceived to provide.
If your company think you're worth 45k to them, then you need to convince them that you're worth more or abandon ship. Find another company that thinks you're worth more, acquire more valuable skills or find a way to impact millions, that way you will make millions.
In the end it doesn't matter what you do or where you live, although baselines change depending on area and location, its not going to make a huge difference being in management vs. engineering vs. something else.
Starting a own company is not easy and is not safe, but neither is working for someone else. Figure out what makes sense for you. If you're not ready for the entrepreneur life then find an employee who values your skill-set. You may need some experience first though before one can really assess you.
If you don't have work experience then you need to start with a lower salary than you'd maybe like, in order to learn, but show that you're capable of delivering products and or value and you'll be in the clear soon. Our education doesn't really start until after we finish school. Simply having a degree is never a guarantee for a well paying job.
I recommend checking out MJ Demarco's books on personal finances and potential entrepreneurship if you're interested in figuring out how the world works and how you can adjust to it.
answered yesterday
Jonast92
7,10122333
can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set100k in what? Euro? USD? Zimbabwe dollars? And in what location? Salaries vary quite a lot in different locations.
– Martin Tournoij
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
Engineers can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set at the right place in a few years of working.
The thing is, it's not about what your education is or what your job title is, it's only about how much value you're providing and how much value you're perceived to provide.
If your company think you're worth 45k to them, then you need to convince them that you're worth more or abandon ship. Find another company that thinks you're worth more, acquire more valuable skills or find a way to impact millions, that way you will make millions.
In the end it doesn't matter what you do or where you live, although baselines change depending on area and location, its not going to make a huge difference being in management vs. engineering vs. something else.
Starting a own company is not easy and is not safe, but neither is working for someone else. Figure out what makes sense for you. If you're not ready for the entrepreneur life then find an employee who values your skill-set. You may need some experience first though before one can really assess you.
If you don't have work experience then you need to start with a lower salary than you'd maybe like, in order to learn, but show that you're capable of delivering products and or value and you'll be in the clear soon. Our education doesn't really start until after we finish school. Simply having a degree is never a guarantee for a well paying job.
I recommend checking out MJ Demarco's books on personal finances and potential entrepreneurship if you're interested in figuring out how the world works and how you can adjust to it.
answered yesterday
Jonast92
7,10122333
can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set100k in what? Euro? USD? Zimbabwe dollars? And in what location? Salaries vary quite a lot in different locations.
– Martin Tournoij
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
Engineers can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set at the right place in a few years of working.
The thing is, it's not about what your education is or what your job title is, it's only about how much value you're providing and how much value you're perceived to provide.
If your company think you're worth 45k to them, then you need to convince them that you're worth more or abandon ship. Find another company that thinks you're worth more, acquire more valuable skills or find a way to impact millions, that way you will make millions.
In the end it doesn't matter what you do or where you live, although baselines change depending on area and location, its not going to make a huge difference being in management vs. engineering vs. something else.
Starting a own company is not easy and is not safe, but neither is working for someone else. Figure out what makes sense for you. If you're not ready for the entrepreneur life then find an employee who values your skill-set. You may need some experience first though before one can really assess you.
If you don't have work experience then you need to start with a lower salary than you'd maybe like, in order to learn, but show that you're capable of delivering products and or value and you'll be in the clear soon. Our education doesn't really start until after we finish school. Simply having a degree is never a guarantee for a well paying job.
I recommend checking out MJ Demarco's books on personal finances and potential entrepreneurship if you're interested in figuring out how the world works and how you can adjust to it.
answered yesterday
Jonast92
7,10122333
Engineers can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set at the right place in a few years of working.
The thing is, it's not about what your education is or what your job title is, it's only about how much value you're providing and how much value you're perceived to provide.
If your company think you're worth 45k to them, then you need to convince them that you're worth more or abandon ship. Find another company that thinks you're worth more, acquire more valuable skills or find a way to impact millions, that way you will make millions.
In the end it doesn't matter what you do or where you live, although baselines change depending on area and location, its not going to make a huge difference being in management vs. engineering vs. something else.
Starting a own company is not easy and is not safe, but neither is working for someone else. Figure out what makes sense for you. If you're not ready for the entrepreneur life then find an employee who values your skill-set. You may need some experience first though before one can really assess you.
If you don't have work experience then you need to start with a lower salary than you'd maybe like, in order to learn, but show that you're capable of delivering products and or value and you'll be in the clear soon. Our education doesn't really start until after we finish school. Simply having a degree is never a guarantee for a well paying job.
I recommend checking out MJ Demarco's books on personal finances and potential entrepreneurship if you're interested in figuring out how the world works and how you can adjust to it.
answered yesterday
Jonast92
7,10122333
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Jonast92
7,10122333
answered yesterday
Jonast92
7,10122333
answered yesterday
Jonast92
7,10122333
7,10122333
can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set100k in what? Euro? USD? Zimbabwe dollars? And in what location? Salaries vary quite a lot in different locations.
– Martin Tournoij
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set100k in what? Euro? USD? Zimbabwe dollars? And in what location? Salaries vary quite a lot in different locations.
– Martin Tournoij
18 hours ago
can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set 100k in what? Euro? USD? Zimbabwe dollars? And in what location? Salaries vary quite a lot in different locations.– Martin Tournoij
18 hours ago
can easily have 100k+ with the right skill-set 100k in what? Euro? USD? Zimbabwe dollars? And in what location? Salaries vary quite a lot in different locations.– Martin Tournoij
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I don't know the French job market, but in general:
Being a manager or owning your own company are no more of a guarantee of high income than being really good at a high paying job/industry. For the most part, only top level managers would be considered high income and many small/start-up companies fail or never achieve high income. There is much more risk in starting your own company and if the high income happens it likely will take years to get there.
If high income is your career driver, you need to understand that the numbers are against you and be prepared for not meeting that goal. For every Mark Zuckerberg, there are thousands and thousands of John Does. By all means go for it, but understand the battle ahead of you.
answered yesterday
cdkMoose
9,63622143
Thank you for your answer, I hadn't thought about the failure aspect.
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I don't know the French job market, but in general:
Being a manager or owning your own company are no more of a guarantee of high income than being really good at a high paying job/industry. For the most part, only top level managers would be considered high income and many small/start-up companies fail or never achieve high income. There is much more risk in starting your own company and if the high income happens it likely will take years to get there.
If high income is your career driver, you need to understand that the numbers are against you and be prepared for not meeting that goal. For every Mark Zuckerberg, there are thousands and thousands of John Does. By all means go for it, but understand the battle ahead of you.
answered yesterday
cdkMoose
9,63622143
Thank you for your answer, I hadn't thought about the failure aspect.
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I don't know the French job market, but in general:
Being a manager or owning your own company are no more of a guarantee of high income than being really good at a high paying job/industry. For the most part, only top level managers would be considered high income and many small/start-up companies fail or never achieve high income. There is much more risk in starting your own company and if the high income happens it likely will take years to get there.
If high income is your career driver, you need to understand that the numbers are against you and be prepared for not meeting that goal. For every Mark Zuckerberg, there are thousands and thousands of John Does. By all means go for it, but understand the battle ahead of you.
answered yesterday
cdkMoose
9,63622143
I don't know the French job market, but in general:
Being a manager or owning your own company are no more of a guarantee of high income than being really good at a high paying job/industry. For the most part, only top level managers would be considered high income and many small/start-up companies fail or never achieve high income. There is much more risk in starting your own company and if the high income happens it likely will take years to get there.
If high income is your career driver, you need to understand that the numbers are against you and be prepared for not meeting that goal. For every Mark Zuckerberg, there are thousands and thousands of John Does. By all means go for it, but understand the battle ahead of you.
answered yesterday
cdkMoose
9,63622143
answered yesterday
cdkMoose
9,63622143
answered yesterday
cdkMoose
9,63622143
answered yesterday
cdkMoose
9,63622143
9,63622143
Thank you for your answer, I hadn't thought about the failure aspect.
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
Thank you for your answer, I hadn't thought about the failure aspect.
– Adr
yesterday
Thank you for your answer, I hadn't thought about the failure aspect.
– Adr
yesterday
Thank you for your answer, I hadn't thought about the failure aspect.
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
The short answer is no. You can enjoy a high income in a non-management job with a company that you do not own. Also, having a management job or a company that you own in no way guarantees a high income for you.
The income you can expect is a function of how rare your skills are and how much value applying those skills can generate. This is true whether we are talking about a management position, an entrepreneurial venture, or a clock-punching type job.
You have:
An undergraduate engineering degree (as do thousands of others in France, I would imagine)
An undergraduate degree from a "top school" (quotation marks because
it's hard to define how much that is worth in terms of your ability
as an engineer).Relatively little work experience (on the scale of entire careers--
there are 3-4 decades to go)That work experience is in a specific field (I don't know how much
money 3D vision applications generate)
I'd also like to point out that your expected salary after completing your PhD already seems to be rather above average for France (from a quick, simple Google search the mean salary appears to be ~36,000 Euros per year).
So, a few points:
What's your cutoff for a "high" income?
The largest numbers are the ones that virtually nobody gets-- there is no method that you should expect to situate you in a job that pays as much as Warren Buffet. Even other high-level, professional investors generally make far less than he does. If that's your reference point, you've got a very difficult-to-reach goal.
Is your area of focus in your current job (or current field) one
that commands a lot of economic activity?In the U.S. (I'm not familiar enough with France to give you a good example local to that country) relatively little money flows to or through social workers, and as a result social workers tend to make very little money. Those jobs essentially never deliver six-figure salaries, whether in a management role or not. If 3D vision is largely in an R&D stage, with little commercial activity resulting from current work, then the amount of money available will be limited.
The value of money is not equal everywhere.
It probably costs a lot more to live and work in downtown Paris than it would to do the same tasks in some small, remote village. Rates of pay in different regions tend to reflect this. So focusing on nominal income alone may be misleading (it's not that you wouldn't be wealthy with a high salary in an area with a high cost of living, just that you would be allocating a good portion of your wealth to living in an expensive area).
The more replaceable you are, the less ability you have to demand
high compensation.If there are 10,000 3D vision engineers available to work in France
you are much more likely to be undercut on compensation demands than
if there were 100. A manager earning 400,000 Euros per year is (at
least perceived to be) an elite manager, offering things that
other managers don't. You can become elite in any field, not just
management.
tl;dr: your ability to command a high salary depends on a lot of factors, of which your field of work is only one. A high salary will follow most easily from being difficult to replace in a field which sees a lot of money move around. If a high salary were simply a matter of a few plain choices, everyone would have one.
answered yesterday
Upper_Case
71917
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
The short answer is no. You can enjoy a high income in a non-management job with a company that you do not own. Also, having a management job or a company that you own in no way guarantees a high income for you.
The income you can expect is a function of how rare your skills are and how much value applying those skills can generate. This is true whether we are talking about a management position, an entrepreneurial venture, or a clock-punching type job.
You have:
An undergraduate engineering degree (as do thousands of others in France, I would imagine)
An undergraduate degree from a "top school" (quotation marks because
it's hard to define how much that is worth in terms of your ability
as an engineer).Relatively little work experience (on the scale of entire careers--
there are 3-4 decades to go)That work experience is in a specific field (I don't know how much
money 3D vision applications generate)
I'd also like to point out that your expected salary after completing your PhD already seems to be rather above average for France (from a quick, simple Google search the mean salary appears to be ~36,000 Euros per year).
So, a few points:
What's your cutoff for a "high" income?
The largest numbers are the ones that virtually nobody gets-- there is no method that you should expect to situate you in a job that pays as much as Warren Buffet. Even other high-level, professional investors generally make far less than he does. If that's your reference point, you've got a very difficult-to-reach goal.
Is your area of focus in your current job (or current field) one
that commands a lot of economic activity?In the U.S. (I'm not familiar enough with France to give you a good example local to that country) relatively little money flows to or through social workers, and as a result social workers tend to make very little money. Those jobs essentially never deliver six-figure salaries, whether in a management role or not. If 3D vision is largely in an R&D stage, with little commercial activity resulting from current work, then the amount of money available will be limited.
The value of money is not equal everywhere.
It probably costs a lot more to live and work in downtown Paris than it would to do the same tasks in some small, remote village. Rates of pay in different regions tend to reflect this. So focusing on nominal income alone may be misleading (it's not that you wouldn't be wealthy with a high salary in an area with a high cost of living, just that you would be allocating a good portion of your wealth to living in an expensive area).
The more replaceable you are, the less ability you have to demand
high compensation.If there are 10,000 3D vision engineers available to work in France
you are much more likely to be undercut on compensation demands than
if there were 100. A manager earning 400,000 Euros per year is (at
least perceived to be) an elite manager, offering things that
other managers don't. You can become elite in any field, not just
management.
tl;dr: your ability to command a high salary depends on a lot of factors, of which your field of work is only one. A high salary will follow most easily from being difficult to replace in a field which sees a lot of money move around. If a high salary were simply a matter of a few plain choices, everyone would have one.
answered yesterday
Upper_Case
71917
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
The short answer is no. You can enjoy a high income in a non-management job with a company that you do not own. Also, having a management job or a company that you own in no way guarantees a high income for you.
The income you can expect is a function of how rare your skills are and how much value applying those skills can generate. This is true whether we are talking about a management position, an entrepreneurial venture, or a clock-punching type job.
You have:
An undergraduate engineering degree (as do thousands of others in France, I would imagine)
An undergraduate degree from a "top school" (quotation marks because
it's hard to define how much that is worth in terms of your ability
as an engineer).Relatively little work experience (on the scale of entire careers--
there are 3-4 decades to go)That work experience is in a specific field (I don't know how much
money 3D vision applications generate)
I'd also like to point out that your expected salary after completing your PhD already seems to be rather above average for France (from a quick, simple Google search the mean salary appears to be ~36,000 Euros per year).
So, a few points:
What's your cutoff for a "high" income?
The largest numbers are the ones that virtually nobody gets-- there is no method that you should expect to situate you in a job that pays as much as Warren Buffet. Even other high-level, professional investors generally make far less than he does. If that's your reference point, you've got a very difficult-to-reach goal.
Is your area of focus in your current job (or current field) one
that commands a lot of economic activity?In the U.S. (I'm not familiar enough with France to give you a good example local to that country) relatively little money flows to or through social workers, and as a result social workers tend to make very little money. Those jobs essentially never deliver six-figure salaries, whether in a management role or not. If 3D vision is largely in an R&D stage, with little commercial activity resulting from current work, then the amount of money available will be limited.
The value of money is not equal everywhere.
It probably costs a lot more to live and work in downtown Paris than it would to do the same tasks in some small, remote village. Rates of pay in different regions tend to reflect this. So focusing on nominal income alone may be misleading (it's not that you wouldn't be wealthy with a high salary in an area with a high cost of living, just that you would be allocating a good portion of your wealth to living in an expensive area).
The more replaceable you are, the less ability you have to demand
high compensation.If there are 10,000 3D vision engineers available to work in France
you are much more likely to be undercut on compensation demands than
if there were 100. A manager earning 400,000 Euros per year is (at
least perceived to be) an elite manager, offering things that
other managers don't. You can become elite in any field, not just
management.
tl;dr: your ability to command a high salary depends on a lot of factors, of which your field of work is only one. A high salary will follow most easily from being difficult to replace in a field which sees a lot of money move around. If a high salary were simply a matter of a few plain choices, everyone would have one.
answered yesterday
Upper_Case
71917
The short answer is no. You can enjoy a high income in a non-management job with a company that you do not own. Also, having a management job or a company that you own in no way guarantees a high income for you.
The income you can expect is a function of how rare your skills are and how much value applying those skills can generate. This is true whether we are talking about a management position, an entrepreneurial venture, or a clock-punching type job.
You have:
An undergraduate engineering degree (as do thousands of others in France, I would imagine)
An undergraduate degree from a "top school" (quotation marks because
it's hard to define how much that is worth in terms of your ability
as an engineer).Relatively little work experience (on the scale of entire careers--
there are 3-4 decades to go)That work experience is in a specific field (I don't know how much
money 3D vision applications generate)
I'd also like to point out that your expected salary after completing your PhD already seems to be rather above average for France (from a quick, simple Google search the mean salary appears to be ~36,000 Euros per year).
So, a few points:
What's your cutoff for a "high" income?
The largest numbers are the ones that virtually nobody gets-- there is no method that you should expect to situate you in a job that pays as much as Warren Buffet. Even other high-level, professional investors generally make far less than he does. If that's your reference point, you've got a very difficult-to-reach goal.
Is your area of focus in your current job (or current field) one
that commands a lot of economic activity?In the U.S. (I'm not familiar enough with France to give you a good example local to that country) relatively little money flows to or through social workers, and as a result social workers tend to make very little money. Those jobs essentially never deliver six-figure salaries, whether in a management role or not. If 3D vision is largely in an R&D stage, with little commercial activity resulting from current work, then the amount of money available will be limited.
The value of money is not equal everywhere.
It probably costs a lot more to live and work in downtown Paris than it would to do the same tasks in some small, remote village. Rates of pay in different regions tend to reflect this. So focusing on nominal income alone may be misleading (it's not that you wouldn't be wealthy with a high salary in an area with a high cost of living, just that you would be allocating a good portion of your wealth to living in an expensive area).
The more replaceable you are, the less ability you have to demand
high compensation.If there are 10,000 3D vision engineers available to work in France
you are much more likely to be undercut on compensation demands than
if there were 100. A manager earning 400,000 Euros per year is (at
least perceived to be) an elite manager, offering things that
other managers don't. You can become elite in any field, not just
management.
tl;dr: your ability to command a high salary depends on a lot of factors, of which your field of work is only one. A high salary will follow most easily from being difficult to replace in a field which sees a lot of money move around. If a high salary were simply a matter of a few plain choices, everyone would have one.
answered yesterday
Upper_Case
71917
answered yesterday
Upper_Case
71917
answered yesterday
Upper_Case
71917
answered yesterday
Upper_Case
71917
71917
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The problem with your analysis is that you are looking at consultants and managers who managed to get very far, be very successful. This selection bias makes you see your position worse than it really is.
For example, I can tell you as a former management consultant that really well-paid are:
- positions in just a few (3? 4?) companies. I don't know numbers but would guess that more than 200 people apply for every opening there.
- high positions (senior manager, partner) in most consulting companies. As a senior manager, you will get 100k+ but very rarely 150k+. As a partner, you will get much more of course but only a small, tiny minority gets to this stage. Most people spend just a few years in management consulting since the work times are crazy and in many companies you hardly have a private life while working like that.
And to get there you need to go through a process, which is much more difficult to influence than your chances to get a good engineering job. Interviews in business have much more to do with soft skills and whether someone likes you than with your objective skills.
The risk is you will stay for years as a management consultant earning 50-80k.
In engineering the distribution of salaries is different. You can check it in your own country, but at least in mine (another EU country), the mean (and median) salary for engineering jobs is much higher than for other jobs.
The probability you will have difficulties finding a job is much lower too.
The work-life balance is incomparably better.
Last but not least, by developing in engineering you can switch to consulting or management very easily. And plenty of engineers take on management tasks at some point. But turning into a management track from the very beginning you are losing something that could profit from.
Basically, as a good engineer, your way up the salary ladder is much more secure - although in some cases slower - than on the management track, where the competition is much larger and the probability of failing huge.
answered yesterday
385703
6,58951239
Thanks for your answer. This kind of insights is why I came here :)
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The problem with your analysis is that you are looking at consultants and managers who managed to get very far, be very successful. This selection bias makes you see your position worse than it really is.
For example, I can tell you as a former management consultant that really well-paid are:
- positions in just a few (3? 4?) companies. I don't know numbers but would guess that more than 200 people apply for every opening there.
- high positions (senior manager, partner) in most consulting companies. As a senior manager, you will get 100k+ but very rarely 150k+. As a partner, you will get much more of course but only a small, tiny minority gets to this stage. Most people spend just a few years in management consulting since the work times are crazy and in many companies you hardly have a private life while working like that.
And to get there you need to go through a process, which is much more difficult to influence than your chances to get a good engineering job. Interviews in business have much more to do with soft skills and whether someone likes you than with your objective skills.
The risk is you will stay for years as a management consultant earning 50-80k.
In engineering the distribution of salaries is different. You can check it in your own country, but at least in mine (another EU country), the mean (and median) salary for engineering jobs is much higher than for other jobs.
The probability you will have difficulties finding a job is much lower too.
The work-life balance is incomparably better.
Last but not least, by developing in engineering you can switch to consulting or management very easily. And plenty of engineers take on management tasks at some point. But turning into a management track from the very beginning you are losing something that could profit from.
Basically, as a good engineer, your way up the salary ladder is much more secure - although in some cases slower - than on the management track, where the competition is much larger and the probability of failing huge.
answered yesterday
385703
6,58951239
Thanks for your answer. This kind of insights is why I came here :)
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The problem with your analysis is that you are looking at consultants and managers who managed to get very far, be very successful. This selection bias makes you see your position worse than it really is.
For example, I can tell you as a former management consultant that really well-paid are:
- positions in just a few (3? 4?) companies. I don't know numbers but would guess that more than 200 people apply for every opening there.
- high positions (senior manager, partner) in most consulting companies. As a senior manager, you will get 100k+ but very rarely 150k+. As a partner, you will get much more of course but only a small, tiny minority gets to this stage. Most people spend just a few years in management consulting since the work times are crazy and in many companies you hardly have a private life while working like that.
And to get there you need to go through a process, which is much more difficult to influence than your chances to get a good engineering job. Interviews in business have much more to do with soft skills and whether someone likes you than with your objective skills.
The risk is you will stay for years as a management consultant earning 50-80k.
In engineering the distribution of salaries is different. You can check it in your own country, but at least in mine (another EU country), the mean (and median) salary for engineering jobs is much higher than for other jobs.
The probability you will have difficulties finding a job is much lower too.
The work-life balance is incomparably better.
Last but not least, by developing in engineering you can switch to consulting or management very easily. And plenty of engineers take on management tasks at some point. But turning into a management track from the very beginning you are losing something that could profit from.
Basically, as a good engineer, your way up the salary ladder is much more secure - although in some cases slower - than on the management track, where the competition is much larger and the probability of failing huge.
answered yesterday
385703
6,58951239
The problem with your analysis is that you are looking at consultants and managers who managed to get very far, be very successful. This selection bias makes you see your position worse than it really is.
For example, I can tell you as a former management consultant that really well-paid are:
- positions in just a few (3? 4?) companies. I don't know numbers but would guess that more than 200 people apply for every opening there.
- high positions (senior manager, partner) in most consulting companies. As a senior manager, you will get 100k+ but very rarely 150k+. As a partner, you will get much more of course but only a small, tiny minority gets to this stage. Most people spend just a few years in management consulting since the work times are crazy and in many companies you hardly have a private life while working like that.
And to get there you need to go through a process, which is much more difficult to influence than your chances to get a good engineering job. Interviews in business have much more to do with soft skills and whether someone likes you than with your objective skills.
The risk is you will stay for years as a management consultant earning 50-80k.
In engineering the distribution of salaries is different. You can check it in your own country, but at least in mine (another EU country), the mean (and median) salary for engineering jobs is much higher than for other jobs.
The probability you will have difficulties finding a job is much lower too.
The work-life balance is incomparably better.
Last but not least, by developing in engineering you can switch to consulting or management very easily. And plenty of engineers take on management tasks at some point. But turning into a management track from the very beginning you are losing something that could profit from.
Basically, as a good engineer, your way up the salary ladder is much more secure - although in some cases slower - than on the management track, where the competition is much larger and the probability of failing huge.
answered yesterday
385703
6,58951239
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
385703
6,58951239
answered yesterday
385703
6,58951239
answered yesterday
385703
6,58951239
6,58951239
Thanks for your answer. This kind of insights is why I came here :)
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
Thanks for your answer. This kind of insights is why I came here :)
– Adr
yesterday
Thanks for your answer. This kind of insights is why I came here :)
– Adr
yesterday
Thanks for your answer. This kind of insights is why I came here :)
– Adr
yesterday
add a comment |Â
@paparazzo Could you give a reference of what would be the average salary for someone in my situation? Thanks.
– Adr
yesterday
4
I understand why people are down-voting but please, don't just down-vote because the case seems too specific to OP's case to be valuable to others to learn from. OP is in a situation that many are in or will be in. He's spent a lot of time studying in school and doesn't quite understand how he can use what he's learned to get away from a low-paying job. At least give OP a comment on how he can improve his question so that it's more relevant, although I think it's relevant enough, when giving him the down-vote.
– Jonast92
yesterday
I think it is important to consider that you are comparing "high income" overall with "average income" of a specific profession. The average tends to ignore experience and variation between specific positions and how demanding the job is. Instead, consider what the top 10-25% of the profession make, especially with 5 years of experience in that role, and don't fall into the trap of comparing between very different countries as no simple exchange rate tells you the real story. Most professions are also hierarchy's, so that moving up within often means changing title/role, though not always.
– BrianH
yesterday
a trader after one year will make around a million if they're good, and in the 300++ range otherwise. sales will make a lot more than the engineers too, if you are personable try sales
– bharal
yesterday
1
Median income at Facebook is over $200,000. Many senior software engineers earn over $100,000 at several firms including Microsoft, Amazon, and Google.
– Glen Pierce
16 hours ago