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Corduroy etymology
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The typical treatment of the etymology of "corduroy" notes that an oft-proposed explanation, French cordes du roi, "the king's ropes", is apocryphal, and that the word's origin is really unknown.
Looking at the French term for corduroy, velour côtelé, "ribbed velour", I wonder why I have seen no one remark on the similarity of "corduroy" to "côtelé", whether to acknowledge or discard it as an explanation. Even if it seems a bit of a stretch, they seem close enough to me to have at least evoked the possibility of a connection, perhaps through a "cordes du roi" eggcorn analysis. Any thoughts on this?
etymology eggcorn
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Green Grasso Holm
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up vote
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The typical treatment of the etymology of "corduroy" notes that an oft-proposed explanation, French cordes du roi, "the king's ropes", is apocryphal, and that the word's origin is really unknown.
Looking at the French term for corduroy, velour côtelé, "ribbed velour", I wonder why I have seen no one remark on the similarity of "corduroy" to "côtelé", whether to acknowledge or discard it as an explanation. Even if it seems a bit of a stretch, they seem close enough to me to have at least evoked the possibility of a connection, perhaps through a "cordes du roi" eggcorn analysis. Any thoughts on this?
etymology eggcorn
asked 3 hours ago
Green Grasso Holm
2,206415
Apart from the fact that both have three syllables and begin in co-, I don’t really see any resemblance at all between the two.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
The typical treatment of the etymology of "corduroy" notes that an oft-proposed explanation, French cordes du roi, "the king's ropes", is apocryphal, and that the word's origin is really unknown.
Looking at the French term for corduroy, velour côtelé, "ribbed velour", I wonder why I have seen no one remark on the similarity of "corduroy" to "côtelé", whether to acknowledge or discard it as an explanation. Even if it seems a bit of a stretch, they seem close enough to me to have at least evoked the possibility of a connection, perhaps through a "cordes du roi" eggcorn analysis. Any thoughts on this?
etymology eggcorn
asked 3 hours ago
Green Grasso Holm
2,206415
The typical treatment of the etymology of "corduroy" notes that an oft-proposed explanation, French cordes du roi, "the king's ropes", is apocryphal, and that the word's origin is really unknown.
Looking at the French term for corduroy, velour côtelé, "ribbed velour", I wonder why I have seen no one remark on the similarity of "corduroy" to "côtelé", whether to acknowledge or discard it as an explanation. Even if it seems a bit of a stretch, they seem close enough to me to have at least evoked the possibility of a connection, perhaps through a "cordes du roi" eggcorn analysis. Any thoughts on this?
etymology eggcorn
etymology eggcorn
asked 3 hours ago
Green Grasso Holm
2,206415
asked 3 hours ago
Green Grasso Holm
2,206415
asked 3 hours ago
Green Grasso Holm
2,206415
asked 3 hours ago
Green Grasso Holm
2,206415
asked 3 hours ago
Green Grasso Holm
2,206415
2,206415
Apart from the fact that both have three syllables and begin in co-, I don’t really see any resemblance at all between the two.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Apart from the fact that both have three syllables and begin in co-, I don’t really see any resemblance at all between the two.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
23 mins ago
Apart from the fact that both have three syllables and begin in co-, I don’t really see any resemblance at all between the two.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
23 mins ago
Apart from the fact that both have three syllables and begin in co-, I don’t really see any resemblance at all between the two.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
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According to the following source the often suggested origins of the term like French “cordes du roi†or the English surname “Curdroy†appear to be folks etymology. A more convincing theory, though not definitive, is the one from “colour de roiâ€Â:
The British philologist Ernest Weekley (1865-1954) proposed the most convincing origin in Transactions of the Philological Society (1910):
- Is there not a possibility that corduroy is folk-etymology for the common trade-term colour de roy?
The term colour de roy, which dates from the early 16th century, is from French couleur de roi, king’s colour. It originally denoted a cloth of a rich purple colour associated with the French kings and this colour itself. Later, it also signified a bright tawny colour and a cloth of this colour.
Ernest Weekley mentions that colour de roy occurs frequently in the scholarly editions of primary records of voyages, travels and other geographical material published by the Hakluyt Society. For example, in his diary, Richard Cocks (1566-1624), a merchant venturer living in Japan, wrote, on 26th November 1615:
- The king sent for a bottell Spanish wyne, and desird to buy Mr. Osterwickes cloake, being of culler du roy, which he sent unto hym at price of 20 taies.
(Incidentally, Richard Cocks was one of the first known users of the expression Hobson’s choice.)
Ernest Weekley also cites Randle Cotgrave in A Dictionarie of the French and English Tongues (1611):
- Couleur de Roy, was in old time, Purple; but now is the bright Tawnie, which wee also tearme, Colour de Roy.
And Weekley concludes:
- The ‘bright tawnie’ is the commonest colour for new corduroys, and I imagine it might have been written commercially cᵒʳ de roy. This is, of course, a pure guess.
(Word Histories)
answered 39 mins ago
user240918
21.4k859133
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To support your speculation, there is the word duroy, pronounced /dəˈrɔɪ/. which was a kind of woolen cloth. The OED mentions this in the etymology section of corduroy, but says it "appears to have no connection to corduroy". However, this might explain why côtelé mutated to cor duroy. This would be especially likely if this mutation took place in a dialect where people dropped their r's, which they seem to have done in London in the late 18th century.
The OED attests the word duroy meaning some kind of fabric from 1722:
London Gazette (1722): Wearing a grey Duroy Coat and Wastcoat.
They also give a 1619 citation, but in that deroy seems to be a color (see the other answer).
The OED's definition of duroy is:
A kind of coarse woollen fabric formerly manufactured in the west of England; akin to the stuffs called tammies. (Not the same as corduroy.)
And duroy does seem like it came from French. The OED gives a quote from a French encyclopedia
Encyclopédie Méthodique (1792): Duroi, étoffe de laine, rase et sèche, dans le genre de la tamise, mais moins large et plus serrée,
which I'm not going to try to translate because these adjectives describing cloth in the 18th century probably don't mean quite the same thing as the same adjectives would in French today.
answered 23 mins ago
Peter Shor
60.5k5116213
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
According to the following source the often suggested origins of the term like French “cordes du roi†or the English surname “Curdroy†appear to be folks etymology. A more convincing theory, though not definitive, is the one from “colour de roiâ€Â:
The British philologist Ernest Weekley (1865-1954) proposed the most convincing origin in Transactions of the Philological Society (1910):
- Is there not a possibility that corduroy is folk-etymology for the common trade-term colour de roy?
The term colour de roy, which dates from the early 16th century, is from French couleur de roi, king’s colour. It originally denoted a cloth of a rich purple colour associated with the French kings and this colour itself. Later, it also signified a bright tawny colour and a cloth of this colour.
Ernest Weekley mentions that colour de roy occurs frequently in the scholarly editions of primary records of voyages, travels and other geographical material published by the Hakluyt Society. For example, in his diary, Richard Cocks (1566-1624), a merchant venturer living in Japan, wrote, on 26th November 1615:
- The king sent for a bottell Spanish wyne, and desird to buy Mr. Osterwickes cloake, being of culler du roy, which he sent unto hym at price of 20 taies.
(Incidentally, Richard Cocks was one of the first known users of the expression Hobson’s choice.)
Ernest Weekley also cites Randle Cotgrave in A Dictionarie of the French and English Tongues (1611):
- Couleur de Roy, was in old time, Purple; but now is the bright Tawnie, which wee also tearme, Colour de Roy.
And Weekley concludes:
- The ‘bright tawnie’ is the commonest colour for new corduroys, and I imagine it might have been written commercially cᵒʳ de roy. This is, of course, a pure guess.
(Word Histories)
answered 39 mins ago
user240918
21.4k859133
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
According to the following source the often suggested origins of the term like French “cordes du roi†or the English surname “Curdroy†appear to be folks etymology. A more convincing theory, though not definitive, is the one from “colour de roiâ€Â:
The British philologist Ernest Weekley (1865-1954) proposed the most convincing origin in Transactions of the Philological Society (1910):
- Is there not a possibility that corduroy is folk-etymology for the common trade-term colour de roy?
The term colour de roy, which dates from the early 16th century, is from French couleur de roi, king’s colour. It originally denoted a cloth of a rich purple colour associated with the French kings and this colour itself. Later, it also signified a bright tawny colour and a cloth of this colour.
Ernest Weekley mentions that colour de roy occurs frequently in the scholarly editions of primary records of voyages, travels and other geographical material published by the Hakluyt Society. For example, in his diary, Richard Cocks (1566-1624), a merchant venturer living in Japan, wrote, on 26th November 1615:
- The king sent for a bottell Spanish wyne, and desird to buy Mr. Osterwickes cloake, being of culler du roy, which he sent unto hym at price of 20 taies.
(Incidentally, Richard Cocks was one of the first known users of the expression Hobson’s choice.)
Ernest Weekley also cites Randle Cotgrave in A Dictionarie of the French and English Tongues (1611):
- Couleur de Roy, was in old time, Purple; but now is the bright Tawnie, which wee also tearme, Colour de Roy.
And Weekley concludes:
- The ‘bright tawnie’ is the commonest colour for new corduroys, and I imagine it might have been written commercially cᵒʳ de roy. This is, of course, a pure guess.
(Word Histories)
answered 39 mins ago
user240918
21.4k859133
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
According to the following source the often suggested origins of the term like French “cordes du roi†or the English surname “Curdroy†appear to be folks etymology. A more convincing theory, though not definitive, is the one from “colour de roiâ€Â:
The British philologist Ernest Weekley (1865-1954) proposed the most convincing origin in Transactions of the Philological Society (1910):
- Is there not a possibility that corduroy is folk-etymology for the common trade-term colour de roy?
The term colour de roy, which dates from the early 16th century, is from French couleur de roi, king’s colour. It originally denoted a cloth of a rich purple colour associated with the French kings and this colour itself. Later, it also signified a bright tawny colour and a cloth of this colour.
Ernest Weekley mentions that colour de roy occurs frequently in the scholarly editions of primary records of voyages, travels and other geographical material published by the Hakluyt Society. For example, in his diary, Richard Cocks (1566-1624), a merchant venturer living in Japan, wrote, on 26th November 1615:
- The king sent for a bottell Spanish wyne, and desird to buy Mr. Osterwickes cloake, being of culler du roy, which he sent unto hym at price of 20 taies.
(Incidentally, Richard Cocks was one of the first known users of the expression Hobson’s choice.)
Ernest Weekley also cites Randle Cotgrave in A Dictionarie of the French and English Tongues (1611):
- Couleur de Roy, was in old time, Purple; but now is the bright Tawnie, which wee also tearme, Colour de Roy.
And Weekley concludes:
- The ‘bright tawnie’ is the commonest colour for new corduroys, and I imagine it might have been written commercially cᵒʳ de roy. This is, of course, a pure guess.
(Word Histories)
answered 39 mins ago
user240918
21.4k859133
According to the following source the often suggested origins of the term like French “cordes du roi†or the English surname “Curdroy†appear to be folks etymology. A more convincing theory, though not definitive, is the one from “colour de roiâ€Â:
The British philologist Ernest Weekley (1865-1954) proposed the most convincing origin in Transactions of the Philological Society (1910):
- Is there not a possibility that corduroy is folk-etymology for the common trade-term colour de roy?
The term colour de roy, which dates from the early 16th century, is from French couleur de roi, king’s colour. It originally denoted a cloth of a rich purple colour associated with the French kings and this colour itself. Later, it also signified a bright tawny colour and a cloth of this colour.
Ernest Weekley mentions that colour de roy occurs frequently in the scholarly editions of primary records of voyages, travels and other geographical material published by the Hakluyt Society. For example, in his diary, Richard Cocks (1566-1624), a merchant venturer living in Japan, wrote, on 26th November 1615:
- The king sent for a bottell Spanish wyne, and desird to buy Mr. Osterwickes cloake, being of culler du roy, which he sent unto hym at price of 20 taies.
(Incidentally, Richard Cocks was one of the first known users of the expression Hobson’s choice.)
Ernest Weekley also cites Randle Cotgrave in A Dictionarie of the French and English Tongues (1611):
- Couleur de Roy, was in old time, Purple; but now is the bright Tawnie, which wee also tearme, Colour de Roy.
And Weekley concludes:
- The ‘bright tawnie’ is the commonest colour for new corduroys, and I imagine it might have been written commercially cᵒʳ de roy. This is, of course, a pure guess.
(Word Histories)
answered 39 mins ago
user240918
21.4k859133
answered 39 mins ago
user240918
21.4k859133
answered 39 mins ago
user240918
21.4k859133
answered 39 mins ago
user240918
21.4k859133
21.4k859133
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
To support your speculation, there is the word duroy, pronounced /dəˈrɔɪ/. which was a kind of woolen cloth. The OED mentions this in the etymology section of corduroy, but says it "appears to have no connection to corduroy". However, this might explain why côtelé mutated to cor duroy. This would be especially likely if this mutation took place in a dialect where people dropped their r's, which they seem to have done in London in the late 18th century.
The OED attests the word duroy meaning some kind of fabric from 1722:
London Gazette (1722): Wearing a grey Duroy Coat and Wastcoat.
They also give a 1619 citation, but in that deroy seems to be a color (see the other answer).
The OED's definition of duroy is:
A kind of coarse woollen fabric formerly manufactured in the west of England; akin to the stuffs called tammies. (Not the same as corduroy.)
And duroy does seem like it came from French. The OED gives a quote from a French encyclopedia
Encyclopédie Méthodique (1792): Duroi, étoffe de laine, rase et sèche, dans le genre de la tamise, mais moins large et plus serrée,
which I'm not going to try to translate because these adjectives describing cloth in the 18th century probably don't mean quite the same thing as the same adjectives would in French today.
answered 23 mins ago
Peter Shor
60.5k5116213
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
To support your speculation, there is the word duroy, pronounced /dəˈrɔɪ/. which was a kind of woolen cloth. The OED mentions this in the etymology section of corduroy, but says it "appears to have no connection to corduroy". However, this might explain why côtelé mutated to cor duroy. This would be especially likely if this mutation took place in a dialect where people dropped their r's, which they seem to have done in London in the late 18th century.
The OED attests the word duroy meaning some kind of fabric from 1722:
London Gazette (1722): Wearing a grey Duroy Coat and Wastcoat.
They also give a 1619 citation, but in that deroy seems to be a color (see the other answer).
The OED's definition of duroy is:
A kind of coarse woollen fabric formerly manufactured in the west of England; akin to the stuffs called tammies. (Not the same as corduroy.)
And duroy does seem like it came from French. The OED gives a quote from a French encyclopedia
Encyclopédie Méthodique (1792): Duroi, étoffe de laine, rase et sèche, dans le genre de la tamise, mais moins large et plus serrée,
which I'm not going to try to translate because these adjectives describing cloth in the 18th century probably don't mean quite the same thing as the same adjectives would in French today.
answered 23 mins ago
Peter Shor
60.5k5116213
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
To support your speculation, there is the word duroy, pronounced /dəˈrɔɪ/. which was a kind of woolen cloth. The OED mentions this in the etymology section of corduroy, but says it "appears to have no connection to corduroy". However, this might explain why côtelé mutated to cor duroy. This would be especially likely if this mutation took place in a dialect where people dropped their r's, which they seem to have done in London in the late 18th century.
The OED attests the word duroy meaning some kind of fabric from 1722:
London Gazette (1722): Wearing a grey Duroy Coat and Wastcoat.
They also give a 1619 citation, but in that deroy seems to be a color (see the other answer).
The OED's definition of duroy is:
A kind of coarse woollen fabric formerly manufactured in the west of England; akin to the stuffs called tammies. (Not the same as corduroy.)
And duroy does seem like it came from French. The OED gives a quote from a French encyclopedia
Encyclopédie Méthodique (1792): Duroi, étoffe de laine, rase et sèche, dans le genre de la tamise, mais moins large et plus serrée,
which I'm not going to try to translate because these adjectives describing cloth in the 18th century probably don't mean quite the same thing as the same adjectives would in French today.
answered 23 mins ago
Peter Shor
60.5k5116213
To support your speculation, there is the word duroy, pronounced /dəˈrɔɪ/. which was a kind of woolen cloth. The OED mentions this in the etymology section of corduroy, but says it "appears to have no connection to corduroy". However, this might explain why côtelé mutated to cor duroy. This would be especially likely if this mutation took place in a dialect where people dropped their r's, which they seem to have done in London in the late 18th century.
The OED attests the word duroy meaning some kind of fabric from 1722:
London Gazette (1722): Wearing a grey Duroy Coat and Wastcoat.
They also give a 1619 citation, but in that deroy seems to be a color (see the other answer).
The OED's definition of duroy is:
A kind of coarse woollen fabric formerly manufactured in the west of England; akin to the stuffs called tammies. (Not the same as corduroy.)
And duroy does seem like it came from French. The OED gives a quote from a French encyclopedia
Encyclopédie Méthodique (1792): Duroi, étoffe de laine, rase et sèche, dans le genre de la tamise, mais moins large et plus serrée,
which I'm not going to try to translate because these adjectives describing cloth in the 18th century probably don't mean quite the same thing as the same adjectives would in French today.
answered 23 mins ago
Peter Shor
60.5k5116213
edited 12 mins ago
answered 23 mins ago
Peter Shor
60.5k5116213
answered 23 mins ago
Peter Shor
60.5k5116213
answered 23 mins ago
Peter Shor
60.5k5116213
60.5k5116213
add a comment |Â
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Apart from the fact that both have three syllables and begin in co-, I don’t really see any resemblance at all between the two.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
23 mins ago