Mixing
Pathfinder Versatile weapon and Weapon Finesse
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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I have a question. I have built a half-elven dragon rider based off of dexterity to make up for her lack of armor. She has elven weapon familiarity as an alternate trait so her weapon used is an elven curved blade. She also uses a lance while mounted. I want to know if adding the Versatile Design to her lance would allow the bonuses of weapon finesse.
- Weapon Finesse allows the use of dex modifiers instead of strength
modifiers. - Versatile design allows the weapon to be a part of a new fighter
weapon group, in this case, it would be light blades to be counted
as light.
Is this a valid modification to achieve better synergy with how I've created my character?
pathfinder
edited 29 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
68.8k16216381
asked 52 mins ago
Rashka
261
New contributor
Rashka is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
I have a question. I have built a half-elven dragon rider based off of dexterity to make up for her lack of armor. She has elven weapon familiarity as an alternate trait so her weapon used is an elven curved blade. She also uses a lance while mounted. I want to know if adding the Versatile Design to her lance would allow the bonuses of weapon finesse.
- Weapon Finesse allows the use of dex modifiers instead of strength
modifiers. - Versatile design allows the weapon to be a part of a new fighter
weapon group, in this case, it would be light blades to be counted
as light.
Is this a valid modification to achieve better synergy with how I've created my character?
pathfinder
edited 29 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
68.8k16216381
asked 52 mins ago
Rashka
261
New contributor
Rashka is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
I have a question. I have built a half-elven dragon rider based off of dexterity to make up for her lack of armor. She has elven weapon familiarity as an alternate trait so her weapon used is an elven curved blade. She also uses a lance while mounted. I want to know if adding the Versatile Design to her lance would allow the bonuses of weapon finesse.
- Weapon Finesse allows the use of dex modifiers instead of strength
modifiers. - Versatile design allows the weapon to be a part of a new fighter
weapon group, in this case, it would be light blades to be counted
as light.
Is this a valid modification to achieve better synergy with how I've created my character?
pathfinder
edited 29 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
68.8k16216381
asked 52 mins ago
Rashka
261
New contributor
Rashka is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I have a question. I have built a half-elven dragon rider based off of dexterity to make up for her lack of armor. She has elven weapon familiarity as an alternate trait so her weapon used is an elven curved blade. She also uses a lance while mounted. I want to know if adding the Versatile Design to her lance would allow the bonuses of weapon finesse.
- Weapon Finesse allows the use of dex modifiers instead of strength
modifiers. - Versatile design allows the weapon to be a part of a new fighter
weapon group, in this case, it would be light blades to be counted
as light.
Is this a valid modification to achieve better synergy with how I've created my character?
pathfinder
pathfinder
edited 29 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
68.8k16216381
asked 52 mins ago
Rashka
261
New contributor
Rashka is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 29 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
68.8k16216381
asked 52 mins ago
Rashka
261
New contributor
Rashka is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 29 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
68.8k16216381
edited 29 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
68.8k16216381
edited 29 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
68.8k16216381
68.8k16216381
asked 52 mins ago
Rashka
261
New contributor
Rashka is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 52 mins ago
Rashka
261
asked 52 mins ago
Rashka
261
261
New contributor
Rashka is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Rashka is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Rashka is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
No, Versatile Design does not let you finesse a lance
So the word “light†is being reused here to mean two different things, and it’s kind of a chicken-and-the-egg problem.
Light as a “handedness,†so “light weapons†as opposed to “one-handed weapons†and “two-handed weapons.†Light weapons can be used with Weapon Finesse, take smaller penalties when using two-weapon fighting, cannot benefit from Power Attack, and so on.
Light as an English-language adjective in the term “light blades,†the name of a fighter weapon group. In this context, a “light blades†refers to any of the weapons found in the light blades group.1 By default, all of the weapons in the light blades group are light weapons (and are blades in one way or another), which is why they are named that way, but being in the group doesn’t make them light weapons.
In other words, the light blades were chosen to be in that group because they are light—but they were already light before the fighter got involved. Adding them to the fighter weapon group “light blades†didn’t make them light, they already were.
Likewise, if you add the lance to this group using Versatile Design, that doesn’t make it a light weapon. A light blade, yes, and things that care about what fighter weapon group you are using will recognize that, but it doesn’t otherwise change how the lance works. It will not allow you to use Weapon Finesse with the lance.
- Namely, a bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, deer horn knife, Drow razor, dueling dagger, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, machete, madu, manople, pata, quadrens, rapier, sanpkhang, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, spiral rapier, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, or war razor.
However, effortless lace may let you finesse a lance
Effortless lace is a very useful magic item that can allow you to finesse weapons you ordinarily couldn’t, along with other useful properties. Specifically,
When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours, the ribbon’s magic permanently merges with the weapon, [so that] the weapon is treated as a light melee weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons.
(Effortless lace item description)
Notice that this can only be used on a one-handed piercing or slashing weapon—a lance is clearly piercing, so that’s no trouble, but it’s a two-handed weapon. However, note also that
While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
(Lance weapon description)
This does not, strictly speaking, make the lance a one-handed weapon. The rules as written would not allow you to use effortless lace on a lance.
Your GM, however, might. I would. I would allow you to use the effortless lace on the lance, but it only benefits from the lace while you are mounted.
answered 36 mins ago
KRyan
209k24522906
1
It would be better to note that the Fighter's Light Blades group includes weapons not in the Light Blades weapon category (i.e the Rapier, despite being a finesse weapon, isn't a Light Blade Weapon) than focusing on the usage of the word 'light'. There are also weapons that can be 'finessed' that aren't in the Fighter's Light Blade group, such as the Elven Curved Blade, Whip and Spiked Chain. Where as Chakram (just to pick one) isn't a 'finesse-able' weapon (since it's a ranged weapon)
– Cyberspark
10 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
No, Versatile Design does not let you finesse a lance
So the word “light†is being reused here to mean two different things, and it’s kind of a chicken-and-the-egg problem.
Light as a “handedness,†so “light weapons†as opposed to “one-handed weapons†and “two-handed weapons.†Light weapons can be used with Weapon Finesse, take smaller penalties when using two-weapon fighting, cannot benefit from Power Attack, and so on.
Light as an English-language adjective in the term “light blades,†the name of a fighter weapon group. In this context, a “light blades†refers to any of the weapons found in the light blades group.1 By default, all of the weapons in the light blades group are light weapons (and are blades in one way or another), which is why they are named that way, but being in the group doesn’t make them light weapons.
In other words, the light blades were chosen to be in that group because they are light—but they were already light before the fighter got involved. Adding them to the fighter weapon group “light blades†didn’t make them light, they already were.
Likewise, if you add the lance to this group using Versatile Design, that doesn’t make it a light weapon. A light blade, yes, and things that care about what fighter weapon group you are using will recognize that, but it doesn’t otherwise change how the lance works. It will not allow you to use Weapon Finesse with the lance.
- Namely, a bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, deer horn knife, Drow razor, dueling dagger, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, machete, madu, manople, pata, quadrens, rapier, sanpkhang, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, spiral rapier, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, or war razor.
However, effortless lace may let you finesse a lance
Effortless lace is a very useful magic item that can allow you to finesse weapons you ordinarily couldn’t, along with other useful properties. Specifically,
When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours, the ribbon’s magic permanently merges with the weapon, [so that] the weapon is treated as a light melee weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons.
(Effortless lace item description)
Notice that this can only be used on a one-handed piercing or slashing weapon—a lance is clearly piercing, so that’s no trouble, but it’s a two-handed weapon. However, note also that
While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
(Lance weapon description)
This does not, strictly speaking, make the lance a one-handed weapon. The rules as written would not allow you to use effortless lace on a lance.
Your GM, however, might. I would. I would allow you to use the effortless lace on the lance, but it only benefits from the lace while you are mounted.
answered 36 mins ago
KRyan
209k24522906
1
It would be better to note that the Fighter's Light Blades group includes weapons not in the Light Blades weapon category (i.e the Rapier, despite being a finesse weapon, isn't a Light Blade Weapon) than focusing on the usage of the word 'light'. There are also weapons that can be 'finessed' that aren't in the Fighter's Light Blade group, such as the Elven Curved Blade, Whip and Spiked Chain. Where as Chakram (just to pick one) isn't a 'finesse-able' weapon (since it's a ranged weapon)
– Cyberspark
10 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
No, Versatile Design does not let you finesse a lance
So the word “light†is being reused here to mean two different things, and it’s kind of a chicken-and-the-egg problem.
Light as a “handedness,†so “light weapons†as opposed to “one-handed weapons†and “two-handed weapons.†Light weapons can be used with Weapon Finesse, take smaller penalties when using two-weapon fighting, cannot benefit from Power Attack, and so on.
Light as an English-language adjective in the term “light blades,†the name of a fighter weapon group. In this context, a “light blades†refers to any of the weapons found in the light blades group.1 By default, all of the weapons in the light blades group are light weapons (and are blades in one way or another), which is why they are named that way, but being in the group doesn’t make them light weapons.
In other words, the light blades were chosen to be in that group because they are light—but they were already light before the fighter got involved. Adding them to the fighter weapon group “light blades†didn’t make them light, they already were.
Likewise, if you add the lance to this group using Versatile Design, that doesn’t make it a light weapon. A light blade, yes, and things that care about what fighter weapon group you are using will recognize that, but it doesn’t otherwise change how the lance works. It will not allow you to use Weapon Finesse with the lance.
- Namely, a bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, deer horn knife, Drow razor, dueling dagger, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, machete, madu, manople, pata, quadrens, rapier, sanpkhang, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, spiral rapier, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, or war razor.
However, effortless lace may let you finesse a lance
Effortless lace is a very useful magic item that can allow you to finesse weapons you ordinarily couldn’t, along with other useful properties. Specifically,
When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours, the ribbon’s magic permanently merges with the weapon, [so that] the weapon is treated as a light melee weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons.
(Effortless lace item description)
Notice that this can only be used on a one-handed piercing or slashing weapon—a lance is clearly piercing, so that’s no trouble, but it’s a two-handed weapon. However, note also that
While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
(Lance weapon description)
This does not, strictly speaking, make the lance a one-handed weapon. The rules as written would not allow you to use effortless lace on a lance.
Your GM, however, might. I would. I would allow you to use the effortless lace on the lance, but it only benefits from the lace while you are mounted.
answered 36 mins ago
KRyan
209k24522906
1
It would be better to note that the Fighter's Light Blades group includes weapons not in the Light Blades weapon category (i.e the Rapier, despite being a finesse weapon, isn't a Light Blade Weapon) than focusing on the usage of the word 'light'. There are also weapons that can be 'finessed' that aren't in the Fighter's Light Blade group, such as the Elven Curved Blade, Whip and Spiked Chain. Where as Chakram (just to pick one) isn't a 'finesse-able' weapon (since it's a ranged weapon)
– Cyberspark
10 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
No, Versatile Design does not let you finesse a lance
So the word “light†is being reused here to mean two different things, and it’s kind of a chicken-and-the-egg problem.
Light as a “handedness,†so “light weapons†as opposed to “one-handed weapons†and “two-handed weapons.†Light weapons can be used with Weapon Finesse, take smaller penalties when using two-weapon fighting, cannot benefit from Power Attack, and so on.
Light as an English-language adjective in the term “light blades,†the name of a fighter weapon group. In this context, a “light blades†refers to any of the weapons found in the light blades group.1 By default, all of the weapons in the light blades group are light weapons (and are blades in one way or another), which is why they are named that way, but being in the group doesn’t make them light weapons.
In other words, the light blades were chosen to be in that group because they are light—but they were already light before the fighter got involved. Adding them to the fighter weapon group “light blades†didn’t make them light, they already were.
Likewise, if you add the lance to this group using Versatile Design, that doesn’t make it a light weapon. A light blade, yes, and things that care about what fighter weapon group you are using will recognize that, but it doesn’t otherwise change how the lance works. It will not allow you to use Weapon Finesse with the lance.
- Namely, a bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, deer horn knife, Drow razor, dueling dagger, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, machete, madu, manople, pata, quadrens, rapier, sanpkhang, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, spiral rapier, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, or war razor.
However, effortless lace may let you finesse a lance
Effortless lace is a very useful magic item that can allow you to finesse weapons you ordinarily couldn’t, along with other useful properties. Specifically,
When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours, the ribbon’s magic permanently merges with the weapon, [so that] the weapon is treated as a light melee weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons.
(Effortless lace item description)
Notice that this can only be used on a one-handed piercing or slashing weapon—a lance is clearly piercing, so that’s no trouble, but it’s a two-handed weapon. However, note also that
While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
(Lance weapon description)
This does not, strictly speaking, make the lance a one-handed weapon. The rules as written would not allow you to use effortless lace on a lance.
Your GM, however, might. I would. I would allow you to use the effortless lace on the lance, but it only benefits from the lace while you are mounted.
answered 36 mins ago
KRyan
209k24522906
No, Versatile Design does not let you finesse a lance
So the word “light†is being reused here to mean two different things, and it’s kind of a chicken-and-the-egg problem.
Light as a “handedness,†so “light weapons†as opposed to “one-handed weapons†and “two-handed weapons.†Light weapons can be used with Weapon Finesse, take smaller penalties when using two-weapon fighting, cannot benefit from Power Attack, and so on.
Light as an English-language adjective in the term “light blades,†the name of a fighter weapon group. In this context, a “light blades†refers to any of the weapons found in the light blades group.1 By default, all of the weapons in the light blades group are light weapons (and are blades in one way or another), which is why they are named that way, but being in the group doesn’t make them light weapons.
In other words, the light blades were chosen to be in that group because they are light—but they were already light before the fighter got involved. Adding them to the fighter weapon group “light blades†didn’t make them light, they already were.
Likewise, if you add the lance to this group using Versatile Design, that doesn’t make it a light weapon. A light blade, yes, and things that care about what fighter weapon group you are using will recognize that, but it doesn’t otherwise change how the lance works. It will not allow you to use Weapon Finesse with the lance.
- Namely, a bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, deer horn knife, Drow razor, dueling dagger, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, machete, madu, manople, pata, quadrens, rapier, sanpkhang, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, spiral rapier, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, or war razor.
However, effortless lace may let you finesse a lance
Effortless lace is a very useful magic item that can allow you to finesse weapons you ordinarily couldn’t, along with other useful properties. Specifically,
When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours, the ribbon’s magic permanently merges with the weapon, [so that] the weapon is treated as a light melee weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons.
(Effortless lace item description)
Notice that this can only be used on a one-handed piercing or slashing weapon—a lance is clearly piercing, so that’s no trouble, but it’s a two-handed weapon. However, note also that
While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
(Lance weapon description)
This does not, strictly speaking, make the lance a one-handed weapon. The rules as written would not allow you to use effortless lace on a lance.
Your GM, however, might. I would. I would allow you to use the effortless lace on the lance, but it only benefits from the lace while you are mounted.
answered 36 mins ago
KRyan
209k24522906
answered 36 mins ago
KRyan
209k24522906
answered 36 mins ago
KRyan
209k24522906
answered 36 mins ago
KRyan
209k24522906
209k24522906
1
It would be better to note that the Fighter's Light Blades group includes weapons not in the Light Blades weapon category (i.e the Rapier, despite being a finesse weapon, isn't a Light Blade Weapon) than focusing on the usage of the word 'light'. There are also weapons that can be 'finessed' that aren't in the Fighter's Light Blade group, such as the Elven Curved Blade, Whip and Spiked Chain. Where as Chakram (just to pick one) isn't a 'finesse-able' weapon (since it's a ranged weapon)
– Cyberspark
10 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1
It would be better to note that the Fighter's Light Blades group includes weapons not in the Light Blades weapon category (i.e the Rapier, despite being a finesse weapon, isn't a Light Blade Weapon) than focusing on the usage of the word 'light'. There are also weapons that can be 'finessed' that aren't in the Fighter's Light Blade group, such as the Elven Curved Blade, Whip and Spiked Chain. Where as Chakram (just to pick one) isn't a 'finesse-able' weapon (since it's a ranged weapon)
– Cyberspark
10 mins ago
1
1
It would be better to note that the Fighter's Light Blades group includes weapons not in the Light Blades weapon category (i.e the Rapier, despite being a finesse weapon, isn't a Light Blade Weapon) than focusing on the usage of the word 'light'. There are also weapons that can be 'finessed' that aren't in the Fighter's Light Blade group, such as the Elven Curved Blade, Whip and Spiked Chain. Where as Chakram (just to pick one) isn't a 'finesse-able' weapon (since it's a ranged weapon)
– Cyberspark
10 mins ago
It would be better to note that the Fighter's Light Blades group includes weapons not in the Light Blades weapon category (i.e the Rapier, despite being a finesse weapon, isn't a Light Blade Weapon) than focusing on the usage of the word 'light'. There are also weapons that can be 'finessed' that aren't in the Fighter's Light Blade group, such as the Elven Curved Blade, Whip and Spiked Chain. Where as Chakram (just to pick one) isn't a 'finesse-able' weapon (since it's a ranged weapon)
– Cyberspark
10 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Rashka is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Rashka is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Rashka is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Rashka is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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