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Is it really a racist remark from Senator Lindsey Graham (Rep.)?
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Recently, there is a huge debate about Senator Lindsey Graham's notes regarding the DNA test and Iran, which are marked as racist. I'm a native Iranian but I live in South Carolina and I hear these remarks from my friends and even my American friends, that they mentioned, it seems he offended the Iranian people by his notes. I read a summary of his notes here from CNN. But, still it's not clear to me, is he really pointing to Iranian people or totalitarian regime of Islamic Republic? Can someone explain to me why these notes went viral and they're marked as racist? Also, I can't understand why he chose Iranian people to make a joke? Cause, there is no connection between Iranian people and Native Americans, if he tries to point to Warren's DNA test case. I appreciate any idea or suggestion.
united-states senate racism
asked 2 hours ago
Alone Programmer
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up vote
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Recently, there is a huge debate about Senator Lindsey Graham's notes regarding the DNA test and Iran, which are marked as racist. I'm a native Iranian but I live in South Carolina and I hear these remarks from my friends and even my American friends, that they mentioned, it seems he offended the Iranian people by his notes. I read a summary of his notes here from CNN. But, still it's not clear to me, is he really pointing to Iranian people or totalitarian regime of Islamic Republic? Can someone explain to me why these notes went viral and they're marked as racist? Also, I can't understand why he chose Iranian people to make a joke? Cause, there is no connection between Iranian people and Native Americans, if he tries to point to Warren's DNA test case. I appreciate any idea or suggestion.
united-states senate racism
asked 2 hours ago
Alone Programmer
396
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Recently, there is a huge debate about Senator Lindsey Graham's notes regarding the DNA test and Iran, which are marked as racist. I'm a native Iranian but I live in South Carolina and I hear these remarks from my friends and even my American friends, that they mentioned, it seems he offended the Iranian people by his notes. I read a summary of his notes here from CNN. But, still it's not clear to me, is he really pointing to Iranian people or totalitarian regime of Islamic Republic? Can someone explain to me why these notes went viral and they're marked as racist? Also, I can't understand why he chose Iranian people to make a joke? Cause, there is no connection between Iranian people and Native Americans, if he tries to point to Warren's DNA test case. I appreciate any idea or suggestion.
united-states senate racism
asked 2 hours ago
Alone Programmer
396
Recently, there is a huge debate about Senator Lindsey Graham's notes regarding the DNA test and Iran, which are marked as racist. I'm a native Iranian but I live in South Carolina and I hear these remarks from my friends and even my American friends, that they mentioned, it seems he offended the Iranian people by his notes. I read a summary of his notes here from CNN. But, still it's not clear to me, is he really pointing to Iranian people or totalitarian regime of Islamic Republic? Can someone explain to me why these notes went viral and they're marked as racist? Also, I can't understand why he chose Iranian people to make a joke? Cause, there is no connection between Iranian people and Native Americans, if he tries to point to Warren's DNA test case. I appreciate any idea or suggestion.
united-states senate racism
united-states senate racism
asked 2 hours ago
Alone Programmer
396
asked 2 hours ago
Alone Programmer
396
edited 17 mins ago
asked 2 hours ago
Alone Programmer
396
asked 2 hours ago
Alone Programmer
396
asked 2 hours ago
Alone Programmer
396
396
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add a comment |Â
3 Answers
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Viral because it's a inappropriate stupid remark, not racist (by my definition) because "Iranian" is not a race of people.
Could Iranian-Americans be offended? - sure, because the Senator is implying that a DNA test proposing that he had some Iranian blood would be offensive to him.
answered 2 hours ago
BobE
2,2981725
Exactly at the first place when I heard these notes, I said: Iran is a nation not a specific race cause the race of Iranian people could be classified as Caucasian.
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
On the other hand, I have some personal positive feedback from Graham and I could say he helped me in some situations. So, it looks a bit strange to me...
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
1
"X is not a race" isn't a very good argument to mark something as not racist. The concept of race itself isn't a biological one, but a social one (that's why Italiens or the Irish (and to a lesser extend Jews) could migrate from "not (really) white" to just white; Iranians seem to have moved in the opposite direction; the average modern racist would definitely not classify the average Iranian as white).
– tim
56 mins ago
1
I'm not saying that Grahams comment was definitely racist, but I think it requires more analysis of the context than just saying Iranian isn't a race. If it was basically an "Iran (the country) is (currently) bad", that's not racist (just possibly offensive); if it's "Having 'brown' DNA is terrible" (ie using Iranian as a stand-in for Persian), then that would be racist (even though Persian is also "not a race").
– tim
53 mins ago
@tim I'm not sure what's the meaning of "Having brown DNA is terrible"?! Can you explain it a bit more?
– Alone Programmer
20 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
Let's get academic about it. I think the term racism is often used to address a basket of discriminatory positions.
The folks over at Oxford Dictionary on Racism
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a
different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
So then we follow up with Race
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
So then we need to infer intent. Since it's clear the comment:
"I'll probably be Iranian. That'd be, like, terrible."
The comment definitely isn't speaking about Iranians in a positive tone or sense. I'm not going to include the rest of the exchange because the hosts on the show quickly re-contextualize his comment:
"Well, they have great people, just bad leaders," co-host Brian Kilmeade said.
That's not a re-contextualization from Mr.Graham, but from the news anchors. So now they're guiding him, in defining the meaning of his quote. Or leading him to a better answer / position.
So, he's discriminating against a people but we haven't proven one part of the accusation:
based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
We need to determine whether Mr.Graham indeed holds this value. Because he is clearly holding a very deep discriminatory attitude towards Iranians.
An interesting additional quote...
"Everything I know about the Iranians I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Iranians are lying."
However... Graham has been really solid in his defense of Islam and it's clear he comes from a well meaning position.
In terms of definitions, Mr.Graham is likely a bigot
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
...and it's clear Mr.Graham is "obstinately devoted" to his perception of Iranians.
Bigotry and Racism often get lumped together, so it's possible the definitions get mixed up. The accusation of Racism, is often more of an assessment of a person's openness to others, rather than some direct sense of racial superiority.
Is Graham's quote racist? Maybe not by definition. But the common use term of Racism is very complex and nuanced, and it's likely many people would consider it racist. If you replace the word Iranian with any race, it's VERY bad...
"I'll probably be Black. That'd be, like, terrible."
Or Consider....
"Everything I know about the Blacks I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Blacks are lying."
This simple word replacement really does demonstrate the intent. In my view, it's not racist by definition, but the tone is spot on.
Remember definition of race is actually quite ambiguous... and depending on your definitions of race... and racism... Mr.Graham is indeed making a racist remark.
Then there's a larger context: Elizabeth Warren released DNA tests in response to a claim Donald Trump made about her. There's an unsettling inference from Mr.Graham's joke. He's saying "If I took a test, I might discover I have DNA from a group of people I consider unfavorable." Implying, that Warren's test is a link to an "unfavorable" group of people.
answered 17 mins ago
ShinEmperor
19113
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up vote
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The first part of his comment basically came down to something like: "Every American has at least one ancestor that makes them not truly 'white'." Meaning that Warren isn't anything special by having one Native American ancestor 150 years ago, and that it seems like 'luck' determines the 'odd' ancestor. The second part was trying to engage in self-depreciating humor, saying that with his (bad) luck, he'd take an ancestry test and find out he had an Iranian ancestor. This is only funny because he believes Iranian/Persian to be the worst possible result.
When he walked back his comment, he mentioned the Iranian government/regime was bad, not its people. But the 'joke' doesn't work if he was referring to political affiliation, not ancestry, so it's a bit confusing what he actually meant.
answered 1 hour ago
Carduus
3,857822
I can't understand what a true "white" means. I mean Iranian people are white and they are classified as Caucasian race so still it's not clear to me what makes the result of having an Iranian ancestor a worst case? Also of course Iranian government or regime is not connected to the race of people. So I got more confused...
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
1
This is what makes it racist. There is no such thing as true 'white'. The Nazis believed 'pure' whiteness was Nordic stock: blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skin, and attempted breeding programs and eugenics to promote this idea. Graham is still in a post-9/11 conservative mindset that any Middle Easterner is a potential terrorist. So if he had Middle-Eastern blood, he might be a closet terrorist.
– Carduus
1 hour ago
1
Even by using Nazi's standards to define what a true "white" means, still the Iranian people could be classified as true "white" race cause before WWII occupation of Iran by UK, US, and Soviet Union, Hitler had a close relation with imperial government of Iran at that time. I don't wanna be racist but I think there was more clear choices for his joke if he looks at the citizenship of 9/11 hijackers. But it seems he chose Iranian people cause he thinks they're the weakest ones and can't counter back his offence.
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Viral because it's a inappropriate stupid remark, not racist (by my definition) because "Iranian" is not a race of people.
Could Iranian-Americans be offended? - sure, because the Senator is implying that a DNA test proposing that he had some Iranian blood would be offensive to him.
answered 2 hours ago
BobE
2,2981725
Exactly at the first place when I heard these notes, I said: Iran is a nation not a specific race cause the race of Iranian people could be classified as Caucasian.
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
On the other hand, I have some personal positive feedback from Graham and I could say he helped me in some situations. So, it looks a bit strange to me...
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
1
"X is not a race" isn't a very good argument to mark something as not racist. The concept of race itself isn't a biological one, but a social one (that's why Italiens or the Irish (and to a lesser extend Jews) could migrate from "not (really) white" to just white; Iranians seem to have moved in the opposite direction; the average modern racist would definitely not classify the average Iranian as white).
– tim
56 mins ago
1
I'm not saying that Grahams comment was definitely racist, but I think it requires more analysis of the context than just saying Iranian isn't a race. If it was basically an "Iran (the country) is (currently) bad", that's not racist (just possibly offensive); if it's "Having 'brown' DNA is terrible" (ie using Iranian as a stand-in for Persian), then that would be racist (even though Persian is also "not a race").
– tim
53 mins ago
@tim I'm not sure what's the meaning of "Having brown DNA is terrible"?! Can you explain it a bit more?
– Alone Programmer
20 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
Viral because it's a inappropriate stupid remark, not racist (by my definition) because "Iranian" is not a race of people.
Could Iranian-Americans be offended? - sure, because the Senator is implying that a DNA test proposing that he had some Iranian blood would be offensive to him.
answered 2 hours ago
BobE
2,2981725
Exactly at the first place when I heard these notes, I said: Iran is a nation not a specific race cause the race of Iranian people could be classified as Caucasian.
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
On the other hand, I have some personal positive feedback from Graham and I could say he helped me in some situations. So, it looks a bit strange to me...
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
1
"X is not a race" isn't a very good argument to mark something as not racist. The concept of race itself isn't a biological one, but a social one (that's why Italiens or the Irish (and to a lesser extend Jews) could migrate from "not (really) white" to just white; Iranians seem to have moved in the opposite direction; the average modern racist would definitely not classify the average Iranian as white).
– tim
56 mins ago
1
I'm not saying that Grahams comment was definitely racist, but I think it requires more analysis of the context than just saying Iranian isn't a race. If it was basically an "Iran (the country) is (currently) bad", that's not racist (just possibly offensive); if it's "Having 'brown' DNA is terrible" (ie using Iranian as a stand-in for Persian), then that would be racist (even though Persian is also "not a race").
– tim
53 mins ago
@tim I'm not sure what's the meaning of "Having brown DNA is terrible"?! Can you explain it a bit more?
– Alone Programmer
20 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Viral because it's a inappropriate stupid remark, not racist (by my definition) because "Iranian" is not a race of people.
Could Iranian-Americans be offended? - sure, because the Senator is implying that a DNA test proposing that he had some Iranian blood would be offensive to him.
answered 2 hours ago
BobE
2,2981725
Viral because it's a inappropriate stupid remark, not racist (by my definition) because "Iranian" is not a race of people.
Could Iranian-Americans be offended? - sure, because the Senator is implying that a DNA test proposing that he had some Iranian blood would be offensive to him.
answered 2 hours ago
BobE
2,2981725
answered 2 hours ago
BobE
2,2981725
answered 2 hours ago
BobE
2,2981725
answered 2 hours ago
BobE
2,2981725
2,2981725
Exactly at the first place when I heard these notes, I said: Iran is a nation not a specific race cause the race of Iranian people could be classified as Caucasian.
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
On the other hand, I have some personal positive feedback from Graham and I could say he helped me in some situations. So, it looks a bit strange to me...
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
1
"X is not a race" isn't a very good argument to mark something as not racist. The concept of race itself isn't a biological one, but a social one (that's why Italiens or the Irish (and to a lesser extend Jews) could migrate from "not (really) white" to just white; Iranians seem to have moved in the opposite direction; the average modern racist would definitely not classify the average Iranian as white).
– tim
56 mins ago
1
I'm not saying that Grahams comment was definitely racist, but I think it requires more analysis of the context than just saying Iranian isn't a race. If it was basically an "Iran (the country) is (currently) bad", that's not racist (just possibly offensive); if it's "Having 'brown' DNA is terrible" (ie using Iranian as a stand-in for Persian), then that would be racist (even though Persian is also "not a race").
– tim
53 mins ago
@tim I'm not sure what's the meaning of "Having brown DNA is terrible"?! Can you explain it a bit more?
– Alone Programmer
20 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
Exactly at the first place when I heard these notes, I said: Iran is a nation not a specific race cause the race of Iranian people could be classified as Caucasian.
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
On the other hand, I have some personal positive feedback from Graham and I could say he helped me in some situations. So, it looks a bit strange to me...
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
1
"X is not a race" isn't a very good argument to mark something as not racist. The concept of race itself isn't a biological one, but a social one (that's why Italiens or the Irish (and to a lesser extend Jews) could migrate from "not (really) white" to just white; Iranians seem to have moved in the opposite direction; the average modern racist would definitely not classify the average Iranian as white).
– tim
56 mins ago
1
I'm not saying that Grahams comment was definitely racist, but I think it requires more analysis of the context than just saying Iranian isn't a race. If it was basically an "Iran (the country) is (currently) bad", that's not racist (just possibly offensive); if it's "Having 'brown' DNA is terrible" (ie using Iranian as a stand-in for Persian), then that would be racist (even though Persian is also "not a race").
– tim
53 mins ago
@tim I'm not sure what's the meaning of "Having brown DNA is terrible"?! Can you explain it a bit more?
– Alone Programmer
20 mins ago
Exactly at the first place when I heard these notes, I said: Iran is a nation not a specific race cause the race of Iranian people could be classified as Caucasian.
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
Exactly at the first place when I heard these notes, I said: Iran is a nation not a specific race cause the race of Iranian people could be classified as Caucasian.
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
On the other hand, I have some personal positive feedback from Graham and I could say he helped me in some situations. So, it looks a bit strange to me...
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
On the other hand, I have some personal positive feedback from Graham and I could say he helped me in some situations. So, it looks a bit strange to me...
– Alone Programmer
2 hours ago
1
1
"X is not a race" isn't a very good argument to mark something as not racist. The concept of race itself isn't a biological one, but a social one (that's why Italiens or the Irish (and to a lesser extend Jews) could migrate from "not (really) white" to just white; Iranians seem to have moved in the opposite direction; the average modern racist would definitely not classify the average Iranian as white).
– tim
56 mins ago
"X is not a race" isn't a very good argument to mark something as not racist. The concept of race itself isn't a biological one, but a social one (that's why Italiens or the Irish (and to a lesser extend Jews) could migrate from "not (really) white" to just white; Iranians seem to have moved in the opposite direction; the average modern racist would definitely not classify the average Iranian as white).
– tim
56 mins ago
1
1
I'm not saying that Grahams comment was definitely racist, but I think it requires more analysis of the context than just saying Iranian isn't a race. If it was basically an "Iran (the country) is (currently) bad", that's not racist (just possibly offensive); if it's "Having 'brown' DNA is terrible" (ie using Iranian as a stand-in for Persian), then that would be racist (even though Persian is also "not a race").
– tim
53 mins ago
I'm not saying that Grahams comment was definitely racist, but I think it requires more analysis of the context than just saying Iranian isn't a race. If it was basically an "Iran (the country) is (currently) bad", that's not racist (just possibly offensive); if it's "Having 'brown' DNA is terrible" (ie using Iranian as a stand-in for Persian), then that would be racist (even though Persian is also "not a race").
– tim
53 mins ago
@tim I'm not sure what's the meaning of "Having brown DNA is terrible"?! Can you explain it a bit more?
– Alone Programmer
20 mins ago
@tim I'm not sure what's the meaning of "Having brown DNA is terrible"?! Can you explain it a bit more?
– Alone Programmer
20 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
Let's get academic about it. I think the term racism is often used to address a basket of discriminatory positions.
The folks over at Oxford Dictionary on Racism
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a
different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
So then we follow up with Race
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
So then we need to infer intent. Since it's clear the comment:
"I'll probably be Iranian. That'd be, like, terrible."
The comment definitely isn't speaking about Iranians in a positive tone or sense. I'm not going to include the rest of the exchange because the hosts on the show quickly re-contextualize his comment:
"Well, they have great people, just bad leaders," co-host Brian Kilmeade said.
That's not a re-contextualization from Mr.Graham, but from the news anchors. So now they're guiding him, in defining the meaning of his quote. Or leading him to a better answer / position.
So, he's discriminating against a people but we haven't proven one part of the accusation:
based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
We need to determine whether Mr.Graham indeed holds this value. Because he is clearly holding a very deep discriminatory attitude towards Iranians.
An interesting additional quote...
"Everything I know about the Iranians I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Iranians are lying."
However... Graham has been really solid in his defense of Islam and it's clear he comes from a well meaning position.
In terms of definitions, Mr.Graham is likely a bigot
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
...and it's clear Mr.Graham is "obstinately devoted" to his perception of Iranians.
Bigotry and Racism often get lumped together, so it's possible the definitions get mixed up. The accusation of Racism, is often more of an assessment of a person's openness to others, rather than some direct sense of racial superiority.
Is Graham's quote racist? Maybe not by definition. But the common use term of Racism is very complex and nuanced, and it's likely many people would consider it racist. If you replace the word Iranian with any race, it's VERY bad...
"I'll probably be Black. That'd be, like, terrible."
Or Consider....
"Everything I know about the Blacks I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Blacks are lying."
This simple word replacement really does demonstrate the intent. In my view, it's not racist by definition, but the tone is spot on.
Remember definition of race is actually quite ambiguous... and depending on your definitions of race... and racism... Mr.Graham is indeed making a racist remark.
Then there's a larger context: Elizabeth Warren released DNA tests in response to a claim Donald Trump made about her. There's an unsettling inference from Mr.Graham's joke. He's saying "If I took a test, I might discover I have DNA from a group of people I consider unfavorable." Implying, that Warren's test is a link to an "unfavorable" group of people.
answered 17 mins ago
ShinEmperor
19113
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Let's get academic about it. I think the term racism is often used to address a basket of discriminatory positions.
The folks over at Oxford Dictionary on Racism
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a
different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
So then we follow up with Race
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
So then we need to infer intent. Since it's clear the comment:
"I'll probably be Iranian. That'd be, like, terrible."
The comment definitely isn't speaking about Iranians in a positive tone or sense. I'm not going to include the rest of the exchange because the hosts on the show quickly re-contextualize his comment:
"Well, they have great people, just bad leaders," co-host Brian Kilmeade said.
That's not a re-contextualization from Mr.Graham, but from the news anchors. So now they're guiding him, in defining the meaning of his quote. Or leading him to a better answer / position.
So, he's discriminating against a people but we haven't proven one part of the accusation:
based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
We need to determine whether Mr.Graham indeed holds this value. Because he is clearly holding a very deep discriminatory attitude towards Iranians.
An interesting additional quote...
"Everything I know about the Iranians I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Iranians are lying."
However... Graham has been really solid in his defense of Islam and it's clear he comes from a well meaning position.
In terms of definitions, Mr.Graham is likely a bigot
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
...and it's clear Mr.Graham is "obstinately devoted" to his perception of Iranians.
Bigotry and Racism often get lumped together, so it's possible the definitions get mixed up. The accusation of Racism, is often more of an assessment of a person's openness to others, rather than some direct sense of racial superiority.
Is Graham's quote racist? Maybe not by definition. But the common use term of Racism is very complex and nuanced, and it's likely many people would consider it racist. If you replace the word Iranian with any race, it's VERY bad...
"I'll probably be Black. That'd be, like, terrible."
Or Consider....
"Everything I know about the Blacks I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Blacks are lying."
This simple word replacement really does demonstrate the intent. In my view, it's not racist by definition, but the tone is spot on.
Remember definition of race is actually quite ambiguous... and depending on your definitions of race... and racism... Mr.Graham is indeed making a racist remark.
Then there's a larger context: Elizabeth Warren released DNA tests in response to a claim Donald Trump made about her. There's an unsettling inference from Mr.Graham's joke. He's saying "If I took a test, I might discover I have DNA from a group of people I consider unfavorable." Implying, that Warren's test is a link to an "unfavorable" group of people.
answered 17 mins ago
ShinEmperor
19113
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Let's get academic about it. I think the term racism is often used to address a basket of discriminatory positions.
The folks over at Oxford Dictionary on Racism
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a
different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
So then we follow up with Race
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
So then we need to infer intent. Since it's clear the comment:
"I'll probably be Iranian. That'd be, like, terrible."
The comment definitely isn't speaking about Iranians in a positive tone or sense. I'm not going to include the rest of the exchange because the hosts on the show quickly re-contextualize his comment:
"Well, they have great people, just bad leaders," co-host Brian Kilmeade said.
That's not a re-contextualization from Mr.Graham, but from the news anchors. So now they're guiding him, in defining the meaning of his quote. Or leading him to a better answer / position.
So, he's discriminating against a people but we haven't proven one part of the accusation:
based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
We need to determine whether Mr.Graham indeed holds this value. Because he is clearly holding a very deep discriminatory attitude towards Iranians.
An interesting additional quote...
"Everything I know about the Iranians I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Iranians are lying."
However... Graham has been really solid in his defense of Islam and it's clear he comes from a well meaning position.
In terms of definitions, Mr.Graham is likely a bigot
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
...and it's clear Mr.Graham is "obstinately devoted" to his perception of Iranians.
Bigotry and Racism often get lumped together, so it's possible the definitions get mixed up. The accusation of Racism, is often more of an assessment of a person's openness to others, rather than some direct sense of racial superiority.
Is Graham's quote racist? Maybe not by definition. But the common use term of Racism is very complex and nuanced, and it's likely many people would consider it racist. If you replace the word Iranian with any race, it's VERY bad...
"I'll probably be Black. That'd be, like, terrible."
Or Consider....
"Everything I know about the Blacks I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Blacks are lying."
This simple word replacement really does demonstrate the intent. In my view, it's not racist by definition, but the tone is spot on.
Remember definition of race is actually quite ambiguous... and depending on your definitions of race... and racism... Mr.Graham is indeed making a racist remark.
Then there's a larger context: Elizabeth Warren released DNA tests in response to a claim Donald Trump made about her. There's an unsettling inference from Mr.Graham's joke. He's saying "If I took a test, I might discover I have DNA from a group of people I consider unfavorable." Implying, that Warren's test is a link to an "unfavorable" group of people.
answered 17 mins ago
ShinEmperor
19113
Let's get academic about it. I think the term racism is often used to address a basket of discriminatory positions.
The folks over at Oxford Dictionary on Racism
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a
different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
So then we follow up with Race
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
So then we need to infer intent. Since it's clear the comment:
"I'll probably be Iranian. That'd be, like, terrible."
The comment definitely isn't speaking about Iranians in a positive tone or sense. I'm not going to include the rest of the exchange because the hosts on the show quickly re-contextualize his comment:
"Well, they have great people, just bad leaders," co-host Brian Kilmeade said.
That's not a re-contextualization from Mr.Graham, but from the news anchors. So now they're guiding him, in defining the meaning of his quote. Or leading him to a better answer / position.
So, he's discriminating against a people but we haven't proven one part of the accusation:
based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
We need to determine whether Mr.Graham indeed holds this value. Because he is clearly holding a very deep discriminatory attitude towards Iranians.
An interesting additional quote...
"Everything I know about the Iranians I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Iranians are lying."
However... Graham has been really solid in his defense of Islam and it's clear he comes from a well meaning position.
In terms of definitions, Mr.Graham is likely a bigot
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
...and it's clear Mr.Graham is "obstinately devoted" to his perception of Iranians.
Bigotry and Racism often get lumped together, so it's possible the definitions get mixed up. The accusation of Racism, is often more of an assessment of a person's openness to others, rather than some direct sense of racial superiority.
Is Graham's quote racist? Maybe not by definition. But the common use term of Racism is very complex and nuanced, and it's likely many people would consider it racist. If you replace the word Iranian with any race, it's VERY bad...
"I'll probably be Black. That'd be, like, terrible."
Or Consider....
"Everything I know about the Blacks I learned at the pool room," [Graham] said. "I met a lot of liars, and I know the Blacks are lying."
This simple word replacement really does demonstrate the intent. In my view, it's not racist by definition, but the tone is spot on.
Remember definition of race is actually quite ambiguous... and depending on your definitions of race... and racism... Mr.Graham is indeed making a racist remark.
Then there's a larger context: Elizabeth Warren released DNA tests in response to a claim Donald Trump made about her. There's an unsettling inference from Mr.Graham's joke. He's saying "If I took a test, I might discover I have DNA from a group of people I consider unfavorable." Implying, that Warren's test is a link to an "unfavorable" group of people.
answered 17 mins ago
ShinEmperor
19113
answered 17 mins ago
ShinEmperor
19113
answered 17 mins ago
ShinEmperor
19113
answered 17 mins ago
ShinEmperor
19113
19113
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The first part of his comment basically came down to something like: "Every American has at least one ancestor that makes them not truly 'white'." Meaning that Warren isn't anything special by having one Native American ancestor 150 years ago, and that it seems like 'luck' determines the 'odd' ancestor. The second part was trying to engage in self-depreciating humor, saying that with his (bad) luck, he'd take an ancestry test and find out he had an Iranian ancestor. This is only funny because he believes Iranian/Persian to be the worst possible result.
When he walked back his comment, he mentioned the Iranian government/regime was bad, not its people. But the 'joke' doesn't work if he was referring to political affiliation, not ancestry, so it's a bit confusing what he actually meant.
answered 1 hour ago
Carduus
3,857822
I can't understand what a true "white" means. I mean Iranian people are white and they are classified as Caucasian race so still it's not clear to me what makes the result of having an Iranian ancestor a worst case? Also of course Iranian government or regime is not connected to the race of people. So I got more confused...
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
1
This is what makes it racist. There is no such thing as true 'white'. The Nazis believed 'pure' whiteness was Nordic stock: blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skin, and attempted breeding programs and eugenics to promote this idea. Graham is still in a post-9/11 conservative mindset that any Middle Easterner is a potential terrorist. So if he had Middle-Eastern blood, he might be a closet terrorist.
– Carduus
1 hour ago
1
Even by using Nazi's standards to define what a true "white" means, still the Iranian people could be classified as true "white" race cause before WWII occupation of Iran by UK, US, and Soviet Union, Hitler had a close relation with imperial government of Iran at that time. I don't wanna be racist but I think there was more clear choices for his joke if he looks at the citizenship of 9/11 hijackers. But it seems he chose Iranian people cause he thinks they're the weakest ones and can't counter back his offence.
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The first part of his comment basically came down to something like: "Every American has at least one ancestor that makes them not truly 'white'." Meaning that Warren isn't anything special by having one Native American ancestor 150 years ago, and that it seems like 'luck' determines the 'odd' ancestor. The second part was trying to engage in self-depreciating humor, saying that with his (bad) luck, he'd take an ancestry test and find out he had an Iranian ancestor. This is only funny because he believes Iranian/Persian to be the worst possible result.
When he walked back his comment, he mentioned the Iranian government/regime was bad, not its people. But the 'joke' doesn't work if he was referring to political affiliation, not ancestry, so it's a bit confusing what he actually meant.
answered 1 hour ago
Carduus
3,857822
I can't understand what a true "white" means. I mean Iranian people are white and they are classified as Caucasian race so still it's not clear to me what makes the result of having an Iranian ancestor a worst case? Also of course Iranian government or regime is not connected to the race of people. So I got more confused...
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
1
This is what makes it racist. There is no such thing as true 'white'. The Nazis believed 'pure' whiteness was Nordic stock: blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skin, and attempted breeding programs and eugenics to promote this idea. Graham is still in a post-9/11 conservative mindset that any Middle Easterner is a potential terrorist. So if he had Middle-Eastern blood, he might be a closet terrorist.
– Carduus
1 hour ago
1
Even by using Nazi's standards to define what a true "white" means, still the Iranian people could be classified as true "white" race cause before WWII occupation of Iran by UK, US, and Soviet Union, Hitler had a close relation with imperial government of Iran at that time. I don't wanna be racist but I think there was more clear choices for his joke if he looks at the citizenship of 9/11 hijackers. But it seems he chose Iranian people cause he thinks they're the weakest ones and can't counter back his offence.
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The first part of his comment basically came down to something like: "Every American has at least one ancestor that makes them not truly 'white'." Meaning that Warren isn't anything special by having one Native American ancestor 150 years ago, and that it seems like 'luck' determines the 'odd' ancestor. The second part was trying to engage in self-depreciating humor, saying that with his (bad) luck, he'd take an ancestry test and find out he had an Iranian ancestor. This is only funny because he believes Iranian/Persian to be the worst possible result.
When he walked back his comment, he mentioned the Iranian government/regime was bad, not its people. But the 'joke' doesn't work if he was referring to political affiliation, not ancestry, so it's a bit confusing what he actually meant.
answered 1 hour ago
Carduus
3,857822
The first part of his comment basically came down to something like: "Every American has at least one ancestor that makes them not truly 'white'." Meaning that Warren isn't anything special by having one Native American ancestor 150 years ago, and that it seems like 'luck' determines the 'odd' ancestor. The second part was trying to engage in self-depreciating humor, saying that with his (bad) luck, he'd take an ancestry test and find out he had an Iranian ancestor. This is only funny because he believes Iranian/Persian to be the worst possible result.
When he walked back his comment, he mentioned the Iranian government/regime was bad, not its people. But the 'joke' doesn't work if he was referring to political affiliation, not ancestry, so it's a bit confusing what he actually meant.
answered 1 hour ago
Carduus
3,857822
answered 1 hour ago
Carduus
3,857822
answered 1 hour ago
Carduus
3,857822
answered 1 hour ago
Carduus
3,857822
3,857822
I can't understand what a true "white" means. I mean Iranian people are white and they are classified as Caucasian race so still it's not clear to me what makes the result of having an Iranian ancestor a worst case? Also of course Iranian government or regime is not connected to the race of people. So I got more confused...
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
1
This is what makes it racist. There is no such thing as true 'white'. The Nazis believed 'pure' whiteness was Nordic stock: blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skin, and attempted breeding programs and eugenics to promote this idea. Graham is still in a post-9/11 conservative mindset that any Middle Easterner is a potential terrorist. So if he had Middle-Eastern blood, he might be a closet terrorist.
– Carduus
1 hour ago
1
Even by using Nazi's standards to define what a true "white" means, still the Iranian people could be classified as true "white" race cause before WWII occupation of Iran by UK, US, and Soviet Union, Hitler had a close relation with imperial government of Iran at that time. I don't wanna be racist but I think there was more clear choices for his joke if he looks at the citizenship of 9/11 hijackers. But it seems he chose Iranian people cause he thinks they're the weakest ones and can't counter back his offence.
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
I can't understand what a true "white" means. I mean Iranian people are white and they are classified as Caucasian race so still it's not clear to me what makes the result of having an Iranian ancestor a worst case? Also of course Iranian government or regime is not connected to the race of people. So I got more confused...
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
1
This is what makes it racist. There is no such thing as true 'white'. The Nazis believed 'pure' whiteness was Nordic stock: blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skin, and attempted breeding programs and eugenics to promote this idea. Graham is still in a post-9/11 conservative mindset that any Middle Easterner is a potential terrorist. So if he had Middle-Eastern blood, he might be a closet terrorist.
– Carduus
1 hour ago
1
Even by using Nazi's standards to define what a true "white" means, still the Iranian people could be classified as true "white" race cause before WWII occupation of Iran by UK, US, and Soviet Union, Hitler had a close relation with imperial government of Iran at that time. I don't wanna be racist but I think there was more clear choices for his joke if he looks at the citizenship of 9/11 hijackers. But it seems he chose Iranian people cause he thinks they're the weakest ones and can't counter back his offence.
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
I can't understand what a true "white" means. I mean Iranian people are white and they are classified as Caucasian race so still it's not clear to me what makes the result of having an Iranian ancestor a worst case? Also of course Iranian government or regime is not connected to the race of people. So I got more confused...
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
I can't understand what a true "white" means. I mean Iranian people are white and they are classified as Caucasian race so still it's not clear to me what makes the result of having an Iranian ancestor a worst case? Also of course Iranian government or regime is not connected to the race of people. So I got more confused...
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
1
1
This is what makes it racist. There is no such thing as true 'white'. The Nazis believed 'pure' whiteness was Nordic stock: blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skin, and attempted breeding programs and eugenics to promote this idea. Graham is still in a post-9/11 conservative mindset that any Middle Easterner is a potential terrorist. So if he had Middle-Eastern blood, he might be a closet terrorist.
– Carduus
1 hour ago
This is what makes it racist. There is no such thing as true 'white'. The Nazis believed 'pure' whiteness was Nordic stock: blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skin, and attempted breeding programs and eugenics to promote this idea. Graham is still in a post-9/11 conservative mindset that any Middle Easterner is a potential terrorist. So if he had Middle-Eastern blood, he might be a closet terrorist.
– Carduus
1 hour ago
1
1
Even by using Nazi's standards to define what a true "white" means, still the Iranian people could be classified as true "white" race cause before WWII occupation of Iran by UK, US, and Soviet Union, Hitler had a close relation with imperial government of Iran at that time. I don't wanna be racist but I think there was more clear choices for his joke if he looks at the citizenship of 9/11 hijackers. But it seems he chose Iranian people cause he thinks they're the weakest ones and can't counter back his offence.
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
Even by using Nazi's standards to define what a true "white" means, still the Iranian people could be classified as true "white" race cause before WWII occupation of Iran by UK, US, and Soviet Union, Hitler had a close relation with imperial government of Iran at that time. I don't wanna be racist but I think there was more clear choices for his joke if he looks at the citizenship of 9/11 hijackers. But it seems he chose Iranian people cause he thinks they're the weakest ones and can't counter back his offence.
– Alone Programmer
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
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