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Question

Inspired by another question where a user asks how to handle students with a phone, my question is from the opposite perspective: what is the correct response when a lecturer asks one to put away the phone?

This actually recently happened to me (a few months ago), and for obvious reasons (not wanting to interrupt the flow of the lecture, not wanting to have a falling out with the professor, etc), I just put my phone down.

But to be honest, I don't think that's the correct response, or at least I feel this is not the way it should be, because I find such demands inappropriate for a number of reasons, and so I shouldn't be giving in to them, should I?

My reasoning:

First of all, and this may sound immature, but what I do with my phone is none of the lecturer's business. As long as I am not disturbing anybody (audio is always off, I am never typing loudly because it's a touch-screen, and nobody is distracted by the screen because I make sure to sit in the back), it shouldn't be a problem.

Secondly, I find that such demands can impede my learning. I often use the phone to look up information related to what the lecturer is actually talking about. If a topic is mentioned that I don't quite recall, a quick google search or a 10-second glance at the topic's Wikipedia page brings me up to speed. Or perhaps the textbook for the course is on my cloud server and I need to the phone to actually access the book, if I didn't bring (or even buy) the physical copy.

Finally, I find it highly disrespectful to call a student out for being on a phone in the middle of a lecture in front of all others. Such conversations, if they need to be had, should be had in private. Approach me after the lecture or during the break if you have a problem. Don't call me out in front of the entire class.

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — yesterday
I generally don't police such things but I am always genuinely puzzled why students who are clearly not paying attention and are instead doing something else on their phone/laptops in the back even come to my lecture. Mind you, I don't take attendance. I find this bizarre. — 14 hours ago
@SashoNikolov Generally, people's attention span is not made for 2 hour lectures, it's something like 15 to 20 minutes. However, our brain is clever, and sometimes even when you are not directly involved so much, you save some of that information. I tend to listen to bits that I know I don't get and the teaching on it is great, but when its something I already know or I can't even hear the professor, there is no point to it. There have been times I just gave up because the teaching made it impossible to learn the material. I doubt this is everyone, some people just really want to pass and go. — 8 hours ago
"I find that such demands can impede my learning." Looking at your phone instead of listening to your instructor can also impede your learning. You might be overestimating your ability to multitask.The typical 1st year undergrad often does not know how to learn efficiently. It is to some extent the instructor's responsibility to help you learn, and insisting that you can do with your phone whatever you please, whenever you please, wherever you please is just as ridiculous as an absolute ban. Maybe you should listen to your instructor sometimes. — 6 hours ago

Kat 1,3381410 · Answer 1 · 2018-11-02 11:48:02Z

this may sound immature

And it is.

You're acting as if you have the right to do what you want. You don't!

It's a teaching session in a building owned and run by other people and they set the rules and delegate the authority.

You have two legitimate choices (1) obey the rules and the authority or (2) leave.

If you want to protest the rule, contact your student union (a legitimate channel for complaints). You can pass your opinion along that way. However the decision still rests with the people in authority, and ultimately you will have to accept that fact.

Note also that the people making that decision are both experienced teachers and students themselves. You are not. Respect their experience.

There's one more important reason:

You are there to learn. You should be paying attention and listening. You may need to ask questions and you may miss something if you don't.

I watch a driving show where bad drivers are educated and it's astonishing to see how many of the bad drivers put forward all sorts of elaborate rationalizations for using a phone when driving. People are, simply, addicted to their phones. Learn to do without it. If you can't sit through a lecture without your phone, it bodes ill for when you hit the real world.

Note then if you were my employee and you started looking at your phone when I was presenting a report in a meeting, you'd be on your way to being fired.

The right you think you have to use a phone when you want does not exist.

Respect the rules other people set when using their resources.

It's that simple.

Finally, I find it highly disrespectful to call a student out for being on a phone in the middle of a lecture in front of all others

You are now experiencing the real world. The one where people call you out to your face and in public for your errors.

Get used to it. It's the difference between an adult and child. All part of learning.

How disrespectful were you being by ignoring the teacher? Did you think about that?

Immature is the right word.

One thing which could improve this answer is an acknowledgement that the OP is paying the institution for certain services and - unless he disturbs others - it's not the institution owning his time and not their place to order him around. The OP is not working for the professor, the professor is working for him. — yesterday
I agree the fact that the student pays tuition (in those cases where this is true) should be addressed in the answer, but it should be addressed by pointing out that just because you pay for a service doesn't mean you get to control how that service is performed. You can hire an electrician and tell them to install an outlet, and they're perfectly within their rights to say "No, that's a code violation, I won't do it." Simply spending money on something does not exempt you from following rules. — yesterday
@DavidMulder I think your comment shows a misunderstanding about what exactly the student is paying for with their tuition. The professor does NOT work for the student. The student is not the boss, the student does not define the terms. — yesterday
-1 OP is asking for advice on how to influence a change the environment, this answer makes a too big fuzz about "you can't do it because it's not yours to change". -1 OP is giving a reason why using the phone is beneficial for his learning, this answer counters it just by saying that humans sometimes rationalize. — 6 hours ago
The original question also does not by any means indicate that OP is addicted to their phone. Throwing stuff like "people are, simply put, addicted to their phones" is overreacting, probably irrelevant, and I don't see any point for saying it other than to belittle OP. — 6 hours ago

score 62 · Answer 2 · 2018-11-01 21:16:38Z

There is a dimension that you aren't considering. While it might be benign if one person does something, it might be less fine if everyone does it. Others might not be so good about turning off ringers, etc. Others might just decide to play games or chat with friends. It is hard to let this happen and also assure that it isn't disruptive.

The reason for the policy, I suspect, is that the instructor wants you to focus on what is going on in the class - exclusively. Even ten seconds away can cause you to miss something important.

But, I also suggest not getting into a fight with your professor ("handling teacher"). It isn't a fight worth having if you are so likely to lose it. Generally such rules, which may seem unreasonable to you, are put in place for valid educational reasons. There are tradeoffs, of course, but they usually favor paying attention.

There are other ways to be an effective learner that don't require electronics. They have been used for millennia.

I have written about effective classroom learning strategies that require only index cards and a pen/pencil at CS Educators as well as in other answers on this site.

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — yesterday

Captain Emacs 21.8k95274 · Answer 3 · 2018-11-02 01:30:10Z

It is true: it is your business what you do with your phone. Up to this point: I had actually students talking into the phone while in class. Now it became the business of the other students. And thus, my business. After I had made it my business, you can be assured that talking on the phone in my class stopped for good.

Ok, you say you do not make noise while in class. Fair enough. Now, there is this proportion of students who play around silently with the phone and then, suddenly, they start asking questions about tests, exams, and other important issues which for which the detailed explanation has just been given. Clearly, their subconscious picked up the words of the lecturers, but not the detail for which conscious attention is required. That was absorbed by whatever they were doing on the phone. So, for the benefit of the students that prioritised their phone activity, and to the detriment and loss of time of the students who didn't, the lecturer has to explain the same things once more.

Note, the lecturer cannot just say: "pay attention instead of playing on the phone", because perhaps on that particular occasion, it would turn out that the accusation might be totally unfair to the student: in fact, something else might have absorbed the students' attention - their sick mother, having to move flats, or how not to get fired from their night-shift job. But, frankly, whenever a student asks about something that was explained just a minute ago (to be clear, not clarifications of a difficult concept, but the repetition of simple details) my first suspicion what caused this question for repetition would fall on their little "devil's prayerbook" that they consulted just under a minute ago.

I am not always convinced that, under the current zeitgeist, students, despite being lawfully adults, are fully mature. However, it is my view that if you treat people as adults, they usually will begin to behave like adults and, indeed, phone use seems to decline over the course of my classes. But not everyone has this patience: Therefore, I do not really blame other profs for wanting to stamp out this bad habit from the outset.

Because, all decent profs will have exactly one interest in class: to educate you as well as they can and know. And, if they believe that the phone disrupts your learning (and possibly that of your colleagues), the right response to that is to accept that they have the best intentions, and give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are asking for: and put the "devil's prayerbook" aside - there will be more than enough time for dark masses worshipping the interbeast after class.

I'm honestly not convinced anyone is fully mature by their age alone. I've seen forty-year-olds ignore each other and try to require me to repeat what the other said so they could "hear" it, and accuse me of disrespect when I wouldn't. I've known eight-year-olds to quickly and efficiently triage themselves if several are hurt and present the worst injuries for immediate attention. Age is an indicator of very little except how close you are to total organ failure, and even there it's unreliable. — Nov 2 at 16:26
I would have upvoted, except for phrases like "devil's prayerbook" and "dark masses worshipping the interbeast". Even if they are meant to be funny (they aren't), they're just distracting from the topic and showing of technophobia, which doesn't make a good case for your answer being in good faith. — Nov 2 at 16:55
@GreySage I use the internet a lot, and yes, I did have a slightly humorous, but also reflective intention here. The term "devil's prayerbook" had once been used for playing cards, and one of the issues is its distraction from other, more urgent/important things. The internet has de-evolved from being a neutral technological tool. Some of its actors now actively seek to absorb, not your soul, but your attention. Attention is currently a most valuable real estate - and the lecturer and the internet companies are competing for it. I think the analogy to the "devil" is not entirely unjustified. — Nov 2 at 20:37
@GreySage I am not sure technophobia is the right term. It insinuates that technology needs to somehow be protected from us backwardies who are challenging and threatening it. Well, you cannot know that I am a strongly technological person, and quite a few times amongst the first to use some new tools and gadgets. But I am also acutely aware of the lure of it. We should be masters of technology and not its slaves. And frankly, too many times, we (and I include myself), let ourselves be tempted to do things not because they make sense, expand our knowledge or move us forward, but because... — Nov 2 at 20:43
...the technological possibilities shape what we end up aiming to do, even if there are simpler, and more effective ways to do it. It's almost like the tool determining what should be done rather than the other way round. Anyone that ever used a form that did not permit to enter the precise data that you would actually want to enter, but did not let you move forward without doing so will have experienced one particularly clumsy form of that. Or, when people struggle to format a graphics correctly where a few strokes on board/paper would be perfectly clear and sufficient for the task at hand. — Nov 2 at 20:48

Allure 21.8k1371117 · Answer 4 · 2018-11-01 23:34:55Z

Put your phone away (or leave the classroom), and speak to the professor afterwards if you're still unhappy.

Let's examine your reasons for thinking it's inappropriate:

First of all, and this may sound immature, but what I do with my phone is none of the teacher's business. As long as I am not disturbing anybody (audio is always off, I am never typing loudly because it's a touch-screen, and nobody is distracted by the screen because I make sure to sit in the back), it shouldn't be a problem.

Let's assume you are indeed right about all this and that you're not breaking any rules. In that case you have a right to pay attention to your phone instead of the professor. But that doesn't make it a wise thing to do. It's rude to not pay attention when someone is talking to you, and if you're looking at your phone you must expect your professor to notice. You'll regret what you did if someday you need a reference from him, you're looking for research supervision, or maybe even if you need a PhD/postdoc position. Academia is a small world, with a very long memory.

That's not all - teachers talk to one another, and another teacher's impression of you could be negatively impacted even before you start the class. This is especially the case if you end up in a formal dispute over whether it's your right to use your phone in class.

Secondly, I find that such demands can impede my learning. I often use the phone to look up information related to what the teacher is actually talking about. If a topic is mentioned that I don't quite recall, a quick google search or a 10-second glance at the topic's Wikipedia page brings me up to speed. Or perhaps the textbook for the course is on my cloud server and I need to the phone to actually access the book, if I didn't bring (or even buy) the physical copy.

However by using Google or looking at Wikipedia you don't actually pause the lecture. The professor will move on and you won't actually get up to speed, you'll be 10 seconds behind. Why not just raise your hand and ask the lecturer directly?

Finally, I find it highly disrespectful to call a student out for being on a phone in the middle of a lecture in front of all others. Such conversations, if they need to be had, should be had in private. Approach me after the lecture or during the break if you have a problem. Don't call me out in front of the entire class.

So speak to the professor in private after class and sort it out like adults. The parallels between the two of you are close. In both cases, one party has done something that the other party disapprove of. It's just the methods you use to solve the dispute are different. You don't approve of the professor's methods, so use your own method and talk to him in private.

Sean English 1,022818 · Answer 5 · 2018-11-03 04:16:17Z

There are many good answers, but I wanted to add a few points that I did not see elsewhere.

Personally, when I teach, I find it incredibly important to be able to judge how much of my class is following so I can change my pace to suit my student's needs. There are many ways I try to do this, but the best way I know how is to judge based on the faces of my students. If you are on your phone though, I cannot get a feeling for how well you are following. In this sense, your choice to be on your phone is actually making my job harder, so even if you aren't disturbing other students, you may be disturbing the teacher and their ability to get instant feedback from you.

Also, I try hard to promote an atmosphere in which students ask questions, as this is helpful not just for them, but also for other students who may not have even noticed they don't understand. The more students who vocalize their questions, the more benefit to all students. Thus, if you chose to remove yourself from this process by asking questions to google rather than me, you are degrading the learning environment I am trying to create, which hurts other students.

Also, you suggest that a professor should approach you after class or during a break, but in my experience, that isn't feasible. When I call a break in my class, I don't actually get a break, instead students usually immediately approach me to ask individual questions. If I do get a second to breathe, I sure don't want to spend that time running to the back of the room to have a conversation with you about how your phone use isn't conducive to the learning atmosphere I am promoting. Similarly with the end of the class, that is when I hold office hours, so I do not have a chance to go chase you down (especially since you sit in back!!) when I have ten students who want to talk to me about this or that. My only option there would be to call you out and ask you to stay after class, which in my opinion is much worse than a quick comment asking you to get off your phone.

I cannot say if your professor has similar reasons for not letting you use your phone, but there are many reasons why it is indeed an appropriate request. So, to answer your question, as others have advised, you should respect your teachers wishes, and if you wish you can approach the professor after class (a good teacher will give you time to approach them either immediately after class or in office hours, so this is not unreasonable, unlike you expecting a professor to approach you after class). Don't be surprised though if you do not get your professor to budge on the issue. If you feel dissatisfied my your conversation with the professor, you can look into organizations at your institution that allows you to report grievences, but again don't be surprised if this also does not go your way.

+1 for the point that mobiles make students and their feedback needs harder to read for the lecturer. The second point about responding to the expectation of being told off after class is slightly too accommodating for my taste (do I really want to burden my mind with remembering who in the 2nd row from the last utilised his phone?), but on the whole a good answer. — Nov 4 at 12:10
I will add, having taught a little (not college level) that it just sucks on a person level when you're putting time and energy into it and being ignored. It feels almost like trying to have a conversation with someone who's making a point of ignoring you. I know it isn't the same thing, but it does feel similarly crappy. — 2 days ago
+1 Ã¢Â€Â¦ forget etiquette and tact, it is so incredibly distracting if your interlocutors are visibly not listening. It takes a lot of training as a teacher to ignore this and not be thrown off by it. — 2 days ago

score 19 · Answer 6 · 2018-11-05 20:01:57Z

If you believe your use is completely legitimate (I'll give an example), briefly state your purpose to the lecturer when asked and be prepared to put away the phone anyway.

Once, in grad school I had a professor tell me to not use my phone in class. I'm hard of hearing and typically record the lectures on a voice recorder or my phone. If I recall correctly I had to interrupt or start the recording on my phone in the middle of the class when the professor spoke to me. I never use my phone in class otherwise, and typically prefer a voice recorder as its purpose is more obvious.

I said something like "Sorry, I'm hard of hearing and I had to turn on my audio recorder." The professor was gracious and might have been a bit embarrassed. There was no problem from that point forward. In fact I've recommended the class and professor to many people since.

If your purpose isn't so obviously valid (e.g., playing a game, etc.) then I'd just put the phone away. In my example, the purpose of using the phone was to better understand the lecturer and minimize disruptions to the class from me asking to repeat things I did not hear well enough, not distract myself.

There are many other reasons which few would argue against, like expecting an important phone call or message.

If you intend to regularly use your phone for legitimate reasons, it would be best to talk with the professor before class time about this to make sure there are no misunderstandings. Asking for permission also appears to be required to record lectures in at least some universities.

Frankly, when asking someone to put away a phone, the prof doesn't care why the student is using the phone, and isn't interested in having an argument. Your case, requesting an accommodation, is a valid exception, but not one that carries useful advice for the situation described by the question. In fact, a better approach for your situation would be to contact the prof in advance to say you'll be using the phone as a recorder -- you could have saved the prof some embarrassment. — Nov 2 at 13:03
@ScottSeidman true, but again who can guess that the prof hate phones? This is a problem of ignorance; no-one is actual faulty; we just learn by error. — Nov 2 at 13:57
@Ooker I think if you want to record lectures, it is standard courtesy to clear this with the professor at the beginning of the term, whether you are using a phone or not. — Nov 2 at 22:58
@Ooker I just know that in my personal experience when a student has some disability that requires something like recording lectures or having a note-taker come, I've been asked for permission beforehand. And I think most people would be unhappy to find out they're being recorded without permission. But maybe this would be a good question for this site? — Nov 3 at 3:24
I just checked, and my university's policy is to get permission from the instructor before recording. diversity.utexas.edu/disability/accommodations-and-services I had assumed since it was perfectly legal that this was okay. Texas is a one party consent state and I don't think there's an expectation of privacy in a classroom. While I probably won't be taking any classes here in the future, I'll keep this in mind. — Nov 4 at 4:20

Anon 1952 · Answer 7 · 2018-11-02 17:54:26Z

up vote
17
down vote

Excuse yourself to go out into the hall to use your phone.

answered Nov 2 at 17:54

Anon

1952

New contributor

This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
â€“Â Massimo Ortolano
Nov 3 at 5:33

19

This answer sound crystal clear to me. He is saying don't use the phone during class unless you leave the class to do so. What clarification do you think OP would need (apparently none, since there is no request for clarification)?
â€“Â Mandrill
Nov 3 at 10:26

add a commentÂ |Â

score 3 · Answer 8 · 2018-11-05 11:08:07Z

The most upvoted answer has the core of the answer right. The rules are set up by the university, including the rule that says that it's the professor's job to set whatever rules in their class, as long as they are not against higher level rules. Also, if you want to go further, the university has been granted the authority to set these rules by the state, which has been granted authority by the people, which mostly mean your parents, and grandparents, and to a lesser degree you.

Now most people here, including the author of the most upvoted answer here, think that since there's such a long chain of authority, and plenty of experience, the professor also has the right of your respect and obedience.

Firstly, respect can only be earned. Whenever I hear someone asking for respect, they lose a bit of my respect to them. They might not care, then they lose even more respect from me.

Secondly, while nobody has the right to anyone's obedience, professors, due to their long chain of command, which literally leads to your parents, do have the tools to enforce obedience if they wish to.

How to handle such an enforcement really depends on the situation. Maybe the professor is actually happy if they find out that you're extending your knowledge. In this case, simply asking a question after class, in a polite way, might make the professor see your way, and maybe even apologize for their previous behavior. Going to the other extreme, they might propose for you to be expelled, at first sight of a phone in your hand, without you even having the possibility to explain anything. This means that the best course of action depends highly both on the actual context, and on your perceived advantages for challenging the authority. Since you only exposed a theoretical general case, there can't be any optimal solution.

I understand how the above is mostly a non-answer, so I want to extend my answer with a personal anecdote, which perfectly exemplifies the situation.

During my bachelor I was in the exact same situation. More specifically, I hated taking notes, as it distracted me from paying attention to what the lecturer was saying. Maybe it's me, but when I'm writing something I can't also process the information that I receive. The lecturer on the other hand, had this rule that everyone has to write everything he was saying. He was pretty much dictating stuff and we were supposed to write it, as if we were second graders learning to write. Some might say that this situation is different, because dictating to students is stupid, while not allowing phones in class is different. Nevertheless, they are both arbitrary rules, set by the professor, which has the power from... from... from... and also the tools to enforce them (see the above part of the answer).

I decided to challenge the rule and simply not write anything. I was just sitting silently and listening to what he was saying. Similarly to what you described, I was not disturbing anyone. It was obvious that I was the only student not writing, so the professor called me out for it. I politely explained my reasoning and the professor replied me with his rule, which needs to be obeyed, as everyone does. I politely declined to obey, and he dropped it for that class. It was a small win. Similar exchanges happened a few more times, but the new ones had mockery added to my address. I always remained polite. This professor was also the dean. Long story short, I did 5 years of bachelor instead of the regular 4. Although to be honest, this was not the only rule that I challenged in that university. I did earn the respect of some of my colleagues, and even of some professors, maybe I even changed some things for the university, but I literally lost one year of my life. I do not regret my choices, but my colleagues who agreed with my thinking, and chose to act differently, also don't regret their choices either.

Finally, you are asking for respect from the professor. I really meant everything I wrote above.

Rather than referring to "the most-upvoted answer" (which can change over time), you may want to link to the specific answer or at least mention the display name of the author of that answer. — Nov 3 at 6:04
@anonymous Complicated is just something one doesn't understand well, but I don't see how this fits as a comment to my answer. Everyone is within their bounds to do whatever they can do, and I clearly said in my answer that professors do have the tools to enforce a lot of things in their classrooms, one of them being no phones whatsoever. You pretty much repeated a summary of my answer in an adversarial tone. — yesterday

score 3 · Answer 9 · 2018-11-06 16:10:25Z

Disclaimer: I'm 48 years old and have a B.S. degree in Mathematics, so I've got a bit of detachment from this.

This reminds me of a friend of mine who is currently a freshman at a state university. He took calculus his last two years in high school, and assumed that those credits would transfer to the university. They didn't, and the university put him in their first year calculus course.

I asked him a few weeks ago how his classes were going, especially his math class (since that's my degree). He said that he sits in the back of the room and plays games on his cell phone because he's seen all of the material before.

What should I tell him? Drop the class and come over my house a couple of afternoons a week for a math lecture? (I didn't say that.)

Contrast this with my first sixth grade math teacher, who had me out of her class and reassigned to the Algebra I class within about two weeks because she realized that I was in the wrong class.

Conclusion: my sixth grade math teacher was more competent that Dr. Whosit at State U.

Based on my experience during my own undergraduate time, there may (or may not) be very little point in complaining about it.

The big up-voted answer lectures us a lot about maturity and responsibility. In one sense, I agree with it. If I had known then what I know now, and had the maturity at 18 that I have at 48, I would have... dropped out of university after my first year and lived homeless on the streets while pursuing my academic studies.

Seriously.

That's a lot of maturity to expect from an 18-year-old. I didn't have it, and it's unreasonable to expect that many people do.

Instead, the adults with terminal degrees who run our schools should do a better job at their profession than what my friend is experiencing. Not sure just what situation OP is in, but there's a lot of people who use "the rules" to cover up for their own incompetence.

Update: (after 4 up votes and 7 comments) @Ben Voight has rightly criticized me for not answering OP's question, so let me try to address the question directly:

It's very hard to respect people who insist that they're experienced teachers, that they've been placed in positions of authority, that you should obey the rules or leave, but when called out on something as basic as placing a student on an appropriate curricular track, whine about all their rules and regulations and how, despite all their tenure and shared governance, there's just nothing they can do about it.

Respect them anyway, or at least act like you do. It's the most mature course of action.

Keep text messages brief, like, "I'm in class right now. I'll call you back later." Don't play games. There's no reason not to use your phone to look up material related to the class. If the teacher says something, and you're really just goofing off, say "sorry", and put it away. Otherwise, if you think you have a good reason to be using the phone, explain why. If it looks like it's turning into an argument in front of the whole class, try to defuse it with "can we discuss this after class, please". Don't turn it into an argument about rights. Back down for the sake of the entire class.

The key is to act like you really want to be in their lecture.

If it's so bad that you just can't stand the act, then you really should leave. The consequences may be severe. Most of my professors would knock off a letter grade, minimum, if you didn't show up to their lectures, even if you could recite everything in their class. Don't bother complaining to the school's administration - it's pointless. Instead, go talk to the individual professors during their office hours. Try to explain, calmly and rationally, why you're bored by the lectures, or you'd rather study the material out of the textbook, or whatever problem you have with the structure of the class. The best teachers understand what educators call "learning styles" and will work with you. The lousy ones won't.

Finally, realize that people who whine about their rights and people who bark orders to "do what you're told or get the hell out" are both immature. A lot of maturity is expressed by voluntarily sacrificing your rights to smooth interpersonal relationships, by standing up for important causes, and by knowing when to do each. When in doubt, favor conciliation over conflict, and dialog over silence.

FYI, typically it is not the professor who decides what classes students are in. Also, many students who've had calculus at high school don't actually know many of the things taught in university calculus (see also Dunning-Kruger). — Nov 2 at 23:04
The faculty member usually cannot do anything here; universities have very strict registration rules that you have to move heaven and earth to violate. Dr. Whosit also may have a few hundred people in class and not even know your friend. In my experience, once you hit the 40-student mark, it's very hard to know every student well enough to suss out this kind of thing - and if your friend isn't complaining and the teacher has a 4/4 load, that would make it even harder. I (seriously) suggest your friend ask for a few challenges, like solving the brachistochrone problem :) or serving as a tutor. — Nov 3 at 1:41
I'm not saying university systems are perfect, and I agree we should improve placement systems, but the situation is very different from elementary school. For one, we have thousands of students coming in each year with widely different backgrounds, and we don't have the resources to carefully evaluate them individually in the beginning of the semester. — Nov 3 at 2:54
The recent (3 hours ago from my present time) update to the answer and some of the comments are completely overlooking certain points raised in other comments. In fact, the professor/teacher might have been told by a course supervisor (or department chair, or someone else in higher authority over the particular class) that the department policy (or "calculus 2 policy", or whatever) is that cell phones are to always be put away in class. There's also the impact the use by one person has with others in the class, who may not know what the student is doing and (continued) — yesterday
thinks the student is playing games, so some of the other students will think it's OK to play games. This is definitely something teachers think about regarding establishing classroom policies, by the way. — yesterday

chasly from UK 798311 · Answer 10 · 2018-11-05 14:47:20Z

The problem with phones is that their primary purpose is to be a phone. I imagine that the professor would not mind if you had a laptop on the desk, s/he would assume you were taking notes.

However the suspicion that you might be using a phone for texting and social media would be very irritating to any teacher however and probably also to students sitting near by. If one person was allowed to do it then so would everyone else and chaos would ensue.

Suggestion

If you have a laptop but no access to wifi then you could set up your phone as a wifi hotspot, then put it in your pocket. Connect the laptop and silence any alerts on both devices. You can then google to your heart's content and others will assume you are note-taking.

P.S. Of course check that laptops are allowed before doing this!

xuq01 2,2741714 · Answer 11 · 2018-11-06 08:54:04Z

I think you need to reconsider your position as a student.

In the US, every course will have a syllabus, which will serve as a contract between students and the instructor. In most other countries, there is something similar. You'd take it or leave it: it is your right to take the course at the given time or not, and it is the right of the instructor to set up some reasonable house rules. "Don't use your phone" is certainly one of them. You have a right to use your phone, but you likely forfeited it temporarily per course or school policy.

Now, if neither your instructor nor your school said you shouldn't use your phone in class, this would be more debatable, but still not to the point where you have a good case. This is not a pub, but a classroom: you are there to learn, as your instructor is there to help you learn. Being on the phone doing stuff is likely not going to help you learn, and would thus be disrespectful to the instructor.

Personally, if it were a large course, I wouldn't care much unless the student is actually being disruptive: it's their tuition and their education, and I could hardly do anything if they decide not to learn.

Ooker 4,36253185 · Answer 12 · 2018-11-03 01:43:00Z

As long as you aren't in violation of other academic expectations, then yes, you're probably fine. Note that there are a lot of standards, particularly not impeding others, that need to be complied with; however, if you are in compliance with everything, then the professor is out of line.

To resolve the issue? If you wish, you may speak with the professor after class about this, but be prepared for a tough time convincing the professor of your intentions. Even if you are polite and courteous, some professors won't be receptive to your argument. Most teachers dislike when students have phones out for any reason, simply because some students abuse their phones. I'd recommend putting the phone away discreetly, then talking to the prof after if the use of the cell phone for your education is important enough to you. By directly defying the professor, you risk alienating them to your plight (if they took the time to ask you to put it away, they probably wouldn't like to have the discussion right then and there.

Within the limits of appropriateness, a professor can manage a teaching environment any way they see fit; asking a student to put away their phone will never be out of line because, like it or not, it's not an inappropriate request. — Nov 2 at 17:28
@Dancrumb I've actually been in a situation in which a teacher calling out some random student was more disruptive to my experience in the class than whatever the student was actually doing. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a teacher asking a student to put away their phone, but it can most certainly be an inappropriate request, depending on the context. — Nov 2 at 19:31
@Clay07g: definitely - calling out a student can be done in an inappropriate way and I would not defend that. I probably over-stated things with "never" :) — Nov 3 at 14:20
If anyone is sitting in the same row as me holding a light and waving their hands about that is a distraction to me. The OP's premise and your confirmation that this does not impede other's concentration is false. — 2 days ago
@PeteKirkham This answer is based on that assumption, not on a confirmation. I'm assuming that it isn't a distraction. Otherwise, obviously you're right. — 2 days ago

Michael 11 · Answer 13 · 2018-11-02 19:18:50Z

The answers have been given already, it is disturbing for the teacher to see a student busy with something else than listening and paying full attention to what the teacher is teaching, in the teacher's point of view. It is purely manners. A few teachers might find it not a big deal a student is googling up something about the lecture right away during class, but see that as a given right, not a freedom.

And to zoom in on your first reasoning:

What if other students (that are NOT in the back rows) that getting pointed at as well in front of other students (about being busy on their phones) are complaining about you doing the same (while sitting at the last row in the back)?

When something is about to get unfair, younger people get annoyingly childish (no pun), and want the same rights and treatments as others. In the end, the whole lecture or even semester or year might be a disappointment with all those disruptive discussions about paying attention. Especially for students that actually like to listen with full attention!

Though I do understand your interest and way to look things up by the Internet, but that's just an impulsive action. Please have a respectful chat with your teacher about this subject.

On the contrary:

It is becoming a part of the lectures in some areas... I know of a few primary schools that educate mainly with use of tablets. Digital boards and pc's are more common in some lectures, ofcourse.
But even then, I can't think of students not listening when the teacher is talking and demonstrating....

Just think about the teacher's point of view, if you will.

Think about the student's point of view. Not everyone in that room is on equal footing. For some, the lecture is too slow, perhaps review. I've been in a PoliSci class in which a fair amount the material overlapped with statistics classes that I already took. Luckily, my professor wasn't so self-absorbed, and allowed me some leniency in doing other, non-disruptive tasks while the lecture caught up to my knowledge. — Nov 2 at 19:25
@Clay07g, true. But still, have a good chat on that with the teacher to get on the same page. He or she should recognize that as well, as your professor did, luckily indeed. But that is a personal case, and that is up to the teacher to do something with. As it does not say the rest of the class is also way ahead on the current lectures. It's not a private lecture. — Nov 2 at 19:34

Kat 1,3381410 · Answer 14 · 2018-11-02 11:48:02Z

this may sound immature

And it is.

You're acting as if you have the right to do what you want. You don't!

It's a teaching session in a building owned and run by other people and they set the rules and delegate the authority.

You have two legitimate choices (1) obey the rules and the authority or (2) leave.

If you want to protest the rule, contact your student union (a legitimate channel for complaints). You can pass your opinion along that way. However the decision still rests with the people in authority, and ultimately you will have to accept that fact.

Note also that the people making that decision are both experienced teachers and students themselves. You are not. Respect their experience.

There's one more important reason:

You are there to learn. You should be paying attention and listening. You may need to ask questions and you may miss something if you don't.

I watch a driving show where bad drivers are educated and it's astonishing to see how many of the bad drivers put forward all sorts of elaborate rationalizations for using a phone when driving. People are, simply, addicted to their phones. Learn to do without it. If you can't sit through a lecture without your phone, it bodes ill for when you hit the real world.

Note then if you were my employee and you started looking at your phone when I was presenting a report in a meeting, you'd be on your way to being fired.

The right you think you have to use a phone when you want does not exist.

Respect the rules other people set when using their resources.

It's that simple.

Finally, I find it highly disrespectful to call a student out for being on a phone in the middle of a lecture in front of all others

You are now experiencing the real world. The one where people call you out to your face and in public for your errors.

Get used to it. It's the difference between an adult and child. All part of learning.

How disrespectful were you being by ignoring the teacher? Did you think about that?

Immature is the right word.

One thing which could improve this answer is an acknowledgement that the OP is paying the institution for certain services and - unless he disturbs others - it's not the institution owning his time and not their place to order him around. The OP is not working for the professor, the professor is working for him. — yesterday
I agree the fact that the student pays tuition (in those cases where this is true) should be addressed in the answer, but it should be addressed by pointing out that just because you pay for a service doesn't mean you get to control how that service is performed. You can hire an electrician and tell them to install an outlet, and they're perfectly within their rights to say "No, that's a code violation, I won't do it." Simply spending money on something does not exempt you from following rules. — yesterday
@DavidMulder I think your comment shows a misunderstanding about what exactly the student is paying for with their tuition. The professor does NOT work for the student. The student is not the boss, the student does not define the terms. — yesterday
-1 OP is asking for advice on how to influence a change the environment, this answer makes a too big fuzz about "you can't do it because it's not yours to change". -1 OP is giving a reason why using the phone is beneficial for his learning, this answer counters it just by saying that humans sometimes rationalize. — 6 hours ago
The original question also does not by any means indicate that OP is addicted to their phone. Throwing stuff like "people are, simply put, addicted to their phones" is overreacting, probably irrelevant, and I don't see any point for saying it other than to belittle OP. — 6 hours ago

score 62 · Answer 15 · 2018-11-01 21:16:38Z

There is a dimension that you aren't considering. While it might be benign if one person does something, it might be less fine if everyone does it. Others might not be so good about turning off ringers, etc. Others might just decide to play games or chat with friends. It is hard to let this happen and also assure that it isn't disruptive.

The reason for the policy, I suspect, is that the instructor wants you to focus on what is going on in the class - exclusively. Even ten seconds away can cause you to miss something important.

But, I also suggest not getting into a fight with your professor ("handling teacher"). It isn't a fight worth having if you are so likely to lose it. Generally such rules, which may seem unreasonable to you, are put in place for valid educational reasons. There are tradeoffs, of course, but they usually favor paying attention.

There are other ways to be an effective learner that don't require electronics. They have been used for millennia.

I have written about effective classroom learning strategies that require only index cards and a pen/pencil at CS Educators as well as in other answers on this site.

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — yesterday

Captain Emacs 21.8k95274 · Answer 16 · 2018-11-02 01:30:10Z

It is true: it is your business what you do with your phone. Up to this point: I had actually students talking into the phone while in class. Now it became the business of the other students. And thus, my business. After I had made it my business, you can be assured that talking on the phone in my class stopped for good.

Ok, you say you do not make noise while in class. Fair enough. Now, there is this proportion of students who play around silently with the phone and then, suddenly, they start asking questions about tests, exams, and other important issues which for which the detailed explanation has just been given. Clearly, their subconscious picked up the words of the lecturers, but not the detail for which conscious attention is required. That was absorbed by whatever they were doing on the phone. So, for the benefit of the students that prioritised their phone activity, and to the detriment and loss of time of the students who didn't, the lecturer has to explain the same things once more.

Note, the lecturer cannot just say: "pay attention instead of playing on the phone", because perhaps on that particular occasion, it would turn out that the accusation might be totally unfair to the student: in fact, something else might have absorbed the students' attention - their sick mother, having to move flats, or how not to get fired from their night-shift job. But, frankly, whenever a student asks about something that was explained just a minute ago (to be clear, not clarifications of a difficult concept, but the repetition of simple details) my first suspicion what caused this question for repetition would fall on their little "devil's prayerbook" that they consulted just under a minute ago.

I am not always convinced that, under the current zeitgeist, students, despite being lawfully adults, are fully mature. However, it is my view that if you treat people as adults, they usually will begin to behave like adults and, indeed, phone use seems to decline over the course of my classes. But not everyone has this patience: Therefore, I do not really blame other profs for wanting to stamp out this bad habit from the outset.

Because, all decent profs will have exactly one interest in class: to educate you as well as they can and know. And, if they believe that the phone disrupts your learning (and possibly that of your colleagues), the right response to that is to accept that they have the best intentions, and give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are asking for: and put the "devil's prayerbook" aside - there will be more than enough time for dark masses worshipping the interbeast after class.

I'm honestly not convinced anyone is fully mature by their age alone. I've seen forty-year-olds ignore each other and try to require me to repeat what the other said so they could "hear" it, and accuse me of disrespect when I wouldn't. I've known eight-year-olds to quickly and efficiently triage themselves if several are hurt and present the worst injuries for immediate attention. Age is an indicator of very little except how close you are to total organ failure, and even there it's unreliable. — Nov 2 at 16:26
I would have upvoted, except for phrases like "devil's prayerbook" and "dark masses worshipping the interbeast". Even if they are meant to be funny (they aren't), they're just distracting from the topic and showing of technophobia, which doesn't make a good case for your answer being in good faith. — Nov 2 at 16:55
@GreySage I use the internet a lot, and yes, I did have a slightly humorous, but also reflective intention here. The term "devil's prayerbook" had once been used for playing cards, and one of the issues is its distraction from other, more urgent/important things. The internet has de-evolved from being a neutral technological tool. Some of its actors now actively seek to absorb, not your soul, but your attention. Attention is currently a most valuable real estate - and the lecturer and the internet companies are competing for it. I think the analogy to the "devil" is not entirely unjustified. — Nov 2 at 20:37
@GreySage I am not sure technophobia is the right term. It insinuates that technology needs to somehow be protected from us backwardies who are challenging and threatening it. Well, you cannot know that I am a strongly technological person, and quite a few times amongst the first to use some new tools and gadgets. But I am also acutely aware of the lure of it. We should be masters of technology and not its slaves. And frankly, too many times, we (and I include myself), let ourselves be tempted to do things not because they make sense, expand our knowledge or move us forward, but because... — Nov 2 at 20:43
...the technological possibilities shape what we end up aiming to do, even if there are simpler, and more effective ways to do it. It's almost like the tool determining what should be done rather than the other way round. Anyone that ever used a form that did not permit to enter the precise data that you would actually want to enter, but did not let you move forward without doing so will have experienced one particularly clumsy form of that. Or, when people struggle to format a graphics correctly where a few strokes on board/paper would be perfectly clear and sufficient for the task at hand. — Nov 2 at 20:48

Allure 21.8k1371117 · Answer 17 · 2018-11-01 23:34:55Z

Put your phone away (or leave the classroom), and speak to the professor afterwards if you're still unhappy.

Let's examine your reasons for thinking it's inappropriate:

First of all, and this may sound immature, but what I do with my phone is none of the teacher's business. As long as I am not disturbing anybody (audio is always off, I am never typing loudly because it's a touch-screen, and nobody is distracted by the screen because I make sure to sit in the back), it shouldn't be a problem.

Let's assume you are indeed right about all this and that you're not breaking any rules. In that case you have a right to pay attention to your phone instead of the professor. But that doesn't make it a wise thing to do. It's rude to not pay attention when someone is talking to you, and if you're looking at your phone you must expect your professor to notice. You'll regret what you did if someday you need a reference from him, you're looking for research supervision, or maybe even if you need a PhD/postdoc position. Academia is a small world, with a very long memory.

That's not all - teachers talk to one another, and another teacher's impression of you could be negatively impacted even before you start the class. This is especially the case if you end up in a formal dispute over whether it's your right to use your phone in class.

Secondly, I find that such demands can impede my learning. I often use the phone to look up information related to what the teacher is actually talking about. If a topic is mentioned that I don't quite recall, a quick google search or a 10-second glance at the topic's Wikipedia page brings me up to speed. Or perhaps the textbook for the course is on my cloud server and I need to the phone to actually access the book, if I didn't bring (or even buy) the physical copy.

However by using Google or looking at Wikipedia you don't actually pause the lecture. The professor will move on and you won't actually get up to speed, you'll be 10 seconds behind. Why not just raise your hand and ask the lecturer directly?

Finally, I find it highly disrespectful to call a student out for being on a phone in the middle of a lecture in front of all others. Such conversations, if they need to be had, should be had in private. Approach me after the lecture or during the break if you have a problem. Don't call me out in front of the entire class.

So speak to the professor in private after class and sort it out like adults. The parallels between the two of you are close. In both cases, one party has done something that the other party disapprove of. It's just the methods you use to solve the dispute are different. You don't approve of the professor's methods, so use your own method and talk to him in private.

Sean English 1,022818 · Answer 18 · 2018-11-03 04:16:17Z

There are many good answers, but I wanted to add a few points that I did not see elsewhere.

Personally, when I teach, I find it incredibly important to be able to judge how much of my class is following so I can change my pace to suit my student's needs. There are many ways I try to do this, but the best way I know how is to judge based on the faces of my students. If you are on your phone though, I cannot get a feeling for how well you are following. In this sense, your choice to be on your phone is actually making my job harder, so even if you aren't disturbing other students, you may be disturbing the teacher and their ability to get instant feedback from you.

Also, I try hard to promote an atmosphere in which students ask questions, as this is helpful not just for them, but also for other students who may not have even noticed they don't understand. The more students who vocalize their questions, the more benefit to all students. Thus, if you chose to remove yourself from this process by asking questions to google rather than me, you are degrading the learning environment I am trying to create, which hurts other students.

Also, you suggest that a professor should approach you after class or during a break, but in my experience, that isn't feasible. When I call a break in my class, I don't actually get a break, instead students usually immediately approach me to ask individual questions. If I do get a second to breathe, I sure don't want to spend that time running to the back of the room to have a conversation with you about how your phone use isn't conducive to the learning atmosphere I am promoting. Similarly with the end of the class, that is when I hold office hours, so I do not have a chance to go chase you down (especially since you sit in back!!) when I have ten students who want to talk to me about this or that. My only option there would be to call you out and ask you to stay after class, which in my opinion is much worse than a quick comment asking you to get off your phone.

I cannot say if your professor has similar reasons for not letting you use your phone, but there are many reasons why it is indeed an appropriate request. So, to answer your question, as others have advised, you should respect your teachers wishes, and if you wish you can approach the professor after class (a good teacher will give you time to approach them either immediately after class or in office hours, so this is not unreasonable, unlike you expecting a professor to approach you after class). Don't be surprised though if you do not get your professor to budge on the issue. If you feel dissatisfied my your conversation with the professor, you can look into organizations at your institution that allows you to report grievences, but again don't be surprised if this also does not go your way.

+1 for the point that mobiles make students and their feedback needs harder to read for the lecturer. The second point about responding to the expectation of being told off after class is slightly too accommodating for my taste (do I really want to burden my mind with remembering who in the 2nd row from the last utilised his phone?), but on the whole a good answer. — Nov 4 at 12:10
I will add, having taught a little (not college level) that it just sucks on a person level when you're putting time and energy into it and being ignored. It feels almost like trying to have a conversation with someone who's making a point of ignoring you. I know it isn't the same thing, but it does feel similarly crappy. — 2 days ago
+1 Ã¢Â€Â¦ forget etiquette and tact, it is so incredibly distracting if your interlocutors are visibly not listening. It takes a lot of training as a teacher to ignore this and not be thrown off by it. — 2 days ago

score 19 · Answer 19 · 2018-11-05 20:01:57Z

If you believe your use is completely legitimate (I'll give an example), briefly state your purpose to the lecturer when asked and be prepared to put away the phone anyway.

Once, in grad school I had a professor tell me to not use my phone in class. I'm hard of hearing and typically record the lectures on a voice recorder or my phone. If I recall correctly I had to interrupt or start the recording on my phone in the middle of the class when the professor spoke to me. I never use my phone in class otherwise, and typically prefer a voice recorder as its purpose is more obvious.

I said something like "Sorry, I'm hard of hearing and I had to turn on my audio recorder." The professor was gracious and might have been a bit embarrassed. There was no problem from that point forward. In fact I've recommended the class and professor to many people since.

If your purpose isn't so obviously valid (e.g., playing a game, etc.) then I'd just put the phone away. In my example, the purpose of using the phone was to better understand the lecturer and minimize disruptions to the class from me asking to repeat things I did not hear well enough, not distract myself.

There are many other reasons which few would argue against, like expecting an important phone call or message.

If you intend to regularly use your phone for legitimate reasons, it would be best to talk with the professor before class time about this to make sure there are no misunderstandings. Asking for permission also appears to be required to record lectures in at least some universities.

Frankly, when asking someone to put away a phone, the prof doesn't care why the student is using the phone, and isn't interested in having an argument. Your case, requesting an accommodation, is a valid exception, but not one that carries useful advice for the situation described by the question. In fact, a better approach for your situation would be to contact the prof in advance to say you'll be using the phone as a recorder -- you could have saved the prof some embarrassment. — Nov 2 at 13:03
@ScottSeidman true, but again who can guess that the prof hate phones? This is a problem of ignorance; no-one is actual faulty; we just learn by error. — Nov 2 at 13:57
@Ooker I think if you want to record lectures, it is standard courtesy to clear this with the professor at the beginning of the term, whether you are using a phone or not. — Nov 2 at 22:58
@Ooker I just know that in my personal experience when a student has some disability that requires something like recording lectures or having a note-taker come, I've been asked for permission beforehand. And I think most people would be unhappy to find out they're being recorded without permission. But maybe this would be a good question for this site? — Nov 3 at 3:24
I just checked, and my university's policy is to get permission from the instructor before recording. diversity.utexas.edu/disability/accommodations-and-services I had assumed since it was perfectly legal that this was okay. Texas is a one party consent state and I don't think there's an expectation of privacy in a classroom. While I probably won't be taking any classes here in the future, I'll keep this in mind. — Nov 4 at 4:20

Anon 1952 · Answer 20 · 2018-11-02 17:54:26Z

up vote
17
down vote

Excuse yourself to go out into the hall to use your phone.

answered Nov 2 at 17:54

Anon

1952

New contributor

This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
â€“Â Massimo Ortolano
Nov 3 at 5:33

19

This answer sound crystal clear to me. He is saying don't use the phone during class unless you leave the class to do so. What clarification do you think OP would need (apparently none, since there is no request for clarification)?
â€“Â Mandrill
Nov 3 at 10:26

add a commentÂ |Â

score 3 · Answer 21 · 2018-11-05 11:08:07Z