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Why the prerequisite to enroll a PhD varies from group to group in Germany?
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I have been trying to get a Ph.D. position in Germany so I follow the advertising sites frequently. A few days ago I saw a position from a group of X Institute. I wrote the professor about the requirement and he replied a bachelor is a prerequisite and he encouraged me to apply. Today again I saw an advertisement for a position from a different group from the same institute and the professor said a master is needed as a prerequisite for becoming a Ph.D. student. My question is why the requirement varies from group to group whereas they come from the same institute? Can a professor or supervisor can play a role to waive master if he wants?
phd graduate-admissions graduate-school professors germany
asked 1 hour ago
Dukhiatma
1991111
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up vote
1
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I have been trying to get a Ph.D. position in Germany so I follow the advertising sites frequently. A few days ago I saw a position from a group of X Institute. I wrote the professor about the requirement and he replied a bachelor is a prerequisite and he encouraged me to apply. Today again I saw an advertisement for a position from a different group from the same institute and the professor said a master is needed as a prerequisite for becoming a Ph.D. student. My question is why the requirement varies from group to group whereas they come from the same institute? Can a professor or supervisor can play a role to waive master if he wants?
phd graduate-admissions graduate-school professors germany
asked 1 hour ago
Dukhiatma
1991111
1
To be honest I don't know any institute in my area where it is allowed to do a Ph.D with a bachelor in germany. But in general it is possible. As far as I know it is up to the one who is supervising to hire you for the position. If he finds you suited, he can hire you. The university will put some conditions on you once you enroll officially as a Ph.D student like completing courses and successfully finish them if you have a bachelor's degree. The same can happen with a masters degree but to a lesser extent
– Amazonasmann
1 hour ago
Anecdotal Ecidence: I heard that if you published during your bachelor course, you are qualified to start a PhD program, because you have already proven that you can do research and work in a scientific manner. I think in practice, you'll probably need outstanding achievements having only a bachelor's degree.
– problemofficer
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I have been trying to get a Ph.D. position in Germany so I follow the advertising sites frequently. A few days ago I saw a position from a group of X Institute. I wrote the professor about the requirement and he replied a bachelor is a prerequisite and he encouraged me to apply. Today again I saw an advertisement for a position from a different group from the same institute and the professor said a master is needed as a prerequisite for becoming a Ph.D. student. My question is why the requirement varies from group to group whereas they come from the same institute? Can a professor or supervisor can play a role to waive master if he wants?
phd graduate-admissions graduate-school professors germany
asked 1 hour ago
Dukhiatma
1991111
I have been trying to get a Ph.D. position in Germany so I follow the advertising sites frequently. A few days ago I saw a position from a group of X Institute. I wrote the professor about the requirement and he replied a bachelor is a prerequisite and he encouraged me to apply. Today again I saw an advertisement for a position from a different group from the same institute and the professor said a master is needed as a prerequisite for becoming a Ph.D. student. My question is why the requirement varies from group to group whereas they come from the same institute? Can a professor or supervisor can play a role to waive master if he wants?
phd graduate-admissions graduate-school professors germany
phd graduate-admissions graduate-school professors germany
asked 1 hour ago
Dukhiatma
1991111
asked 1 hour ago
Dukhiatma
1991111
asked 1 hour ago
Dukhiatma
1991111
asked 1 hour ago
Dukhiatma
1991111
asked 1 hour ago
Dukhiatma
1991111
1991111
1
To be honest I don't know any institute in my area where it is allowed to do a Ph.D with a bachelor in germany. But in general it is possible. As far as I know it is up to the one who is supervising to hire you for the position. If he finds you suited, he can hire you. The university will put some conditions on you once you enroll officially as a Ph.D student like completing courses and successfully finish them if you have a bachelor's degree. The same can happen with a masters degree but to a lesser extent
– Amazonasmann
1 hour ago
Anecdotal Ecidence: I heard that if you published during your bachelor course, you are qualified to start a PhD program, because you have already proven that you can do research and work in a scientific manner. I think in practice, you'll probably need outstanding achievements having only a bachelor's degree.
– problemofficer
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
1
To be honest I don't know any institute in my area where it is allowed to do a Ph.D with a bachelor in germany. But in general it is possible. As far as I know it is up to the one who is supervising to hire you for the position. If he finds you suited, he can hire you. The university will put some conditions on you once you enroll officially as a Ph.D student like completing courses and successfully finish them if you have a bachelor's degree. The same can happen with a masters degree but to a lesser extent
– Amazonasmann
1 hour ago
Anecdotal Ecidence: I heard that if you published during your bachelor course, you are qualified to start a PhD program, because you have already proven that you can do research and work in a scientific manner. I think in practice, you'll probably need outstanding achievements having only a bachelor's degree.
– problemofficer
1 hour ago
1
1
To be honest I don't know any institute in my area where it is allowed to do a Ph.D with a bachelor in germany. But in general it is possible. As far as I know it is up to the one who is supervising to hire you for the position. If he finds you suited, he can hire you. The university will put some conditions on you once you enroll officially as a Ph.D student like completing courses and successfully finish them if you have a bachelor's degree. The same can happen with a masters degree but to a lesser extent
– Amazonasmann
1 hour ago
To be honest I don't know any institute in my area where it is allowed to do a Ph.D with a bachelor in germany. But in general it is possible. As far as I know it is up to the one who is supervising to hire you for the position. If he finds you suited, he can hire you. The university will put some conditions on you once you enroll officially as a Ph.D student like completing courses and successfully finish them if you have a bachelor's degree. The same can happen with a masters degree but to a lesser extent
– Amazonasmann
1 hour ago
Anecdotal Ecidence: I heard that if you published during your bachelor course, you are qualified to start a PhD program, because you have already proven that you can do research and work in a scientific manner. I think in practice, you'll probably need outstanding achievements having only a bachelor's degree.
– problemofficer
1 hour ago
Anecdotal Ecidence: I heard that if you published during your bachelor course, you are qualified to start a PhD program, because you have already proven that you can do research and work in a scientific manner. I think in practice, you'll probably need outstanding achievements having only a bachelor's degree.
– problemofficer
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
In most programs in Germany, the PhD is a paid position that is known as a Wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter ("knowledge employee") and typically requires a master's degree as a prerequisite.
There are some exceptions to this—there are some programs where students enroll in a master's program that leads to a PhD position once the master's thesis has been completed. But such programs are relatively uncommon and should not be expected as a master's course.
answered 1 hour ago
aeismail♦
157k30362689
Most of the paid positions are designated as E13 in the the union agreement (Tv-L), which by said agreement require a masters degree. I would add the detail that it is not possible to waive this prerequisite for such positions. The professor can still take you as a student (If the university allows it) and even pay you from other sources (if he has some), he just can't employ you on those specific positions, even if he wants to.
– mlk
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
tl;dr: You'd typically need Master's. Read on to find out why.
The "traditional" German higher education system had only one kind of a degree before PhD, the Diplom. It's typically translated as MSc and it's not wrong: basically, it was a 5 years degree. You'd typically need this degree, and having it from a university (and not a Fachhochschule, a polytechnical university) in order to start a PhD.
Then, Bologna happened.
The current scheme in Germany is: 3 years BSc + 2 years MSc. Though the initial thought was to have a US system, where most of the students exit university with a BSc, it did not took off. Most companies and universities themselves saw "just" BSc as inferior and still required a MSc degree. It got a bit better nowadays.
It is possible to get a job with a BSc, even if it would pay less.
It is also possible to start your PhD with a BSc. But it's much, much harder. In many places special "fast-track" programmes exist. Details depend on the location. Typically, they allow a future PhD candidate to study for their MSc, but in a sort-of accelerated manner, for example, the MSc thesis is then allowed to be a topic from the future PhD. Further, typically the non-MSc holders are payed less, E12 level instead of E13.
All this requires, however, further, and in some cases non-insignificant actions from the advisor. So, there might be a certain willingness to employ a BSc-holder. It might be easier, if it's a four-years BSc. The typical "fits all" requirement is, however, a MSc.
A further notice. There are two sides to doing a PhD in Germany. 1) The general advisor-student relationship. It is about research and mentoring. No money is involved in this relationship. (You might want to register as a (PhD-)student with the university, it costs not much.) 2) The employer-employee relationship. The "funded position" is not really connected to the readiness to supervise a student. (Yes, it is often coinciding, but it is not required to be so.)
My point is: you should really ask very directly, does this particular professor really want to supervise you as a prospective PhD student (even with "only" a BSc), or do they do the former and have money for your position.
answered 1 hour ago
Oleg Lobachev
4,2511119
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
In most programs in Germany, the PhD is a paid position that is known as a Wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter ("knowledge employee") and typically requires a master's degree as a prerequisite.
There are some exceptions to this—there are some programs where students enroll in a master's program that leads to a PhD position once the master's thesis has been completed. But such programs are relatively uncommon and should not be expected as a master's course.
answered 1 hour ago
aeismail♦
157k30362689
Most of the paid positions are designated as E13 in the the union agreement (Tv-L), which by said agreement require a masters degree. I would add the detail that it is not possible to waive this prerequisite for such positions. The professor can still take you as a student (If the university allows it) and even pay you from other sources (if he has some), he just can't employ you on those specific positions, even if he wants to.
– mlk
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
In most programs in Germany, the PhD is a paid position that is known as a Wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter ("knowledge employee") and typically requires a master's degree as a prerequisite.
There are some exceptions to this—there are some programs where students enroll in a master's program that leads to a PhD position once the master's thesis has been completed. But such programs are relatively uncommon and should not be expected as a master's course.
answered 1 hour ago
aeismail♦
157k30362689
Most of the paid positions are designated as E13 in the the union agreement (Tv-L), which by said agreement require a masters degree. I would add the detail that it is not possible to waive this prerequisite for such positions. The professor can still take you as a student (If the university allows it) and even pay you from other sources (if he has some), he just can't employ you on those specific positions, even if he wants to.
– mlk
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
In most programs in Germany, the PhD is a paid position that is known as a Wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter ("knowledge employee") and typically requires a master's degree as a prerequisite.
There are some exceptions to this—there are some programs where students enroll in a master's program that leads to a PhD position once the master's thesis has been completed. But such programs are relatively uncommon and should not be expected as a master's course.
answered 1 hour ago
aeismail♦
157k30362689
In most programs in Germany, the PhD is a paid position that is known as a Wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter ("knowledge employee") and typically requires a master's degree as a prerequisite.
There are some exceptions to this—there are some programs where students enroll in a master's program that leads to a PhD position once the master's thesis has been completed. But such programs are relatively uncommon and should not be expected as a master's course.
answered 1 hour ago
aeismail♦
157k30362689
answered 1 hour ago
aeismail♦
157k30362689
answered 1 hour ago
aeismail♦
157k30362689
answered 1 hour ago
aeismail♦
157k30362689
157k30362689
Most of the paid positions are designated as E13 in the the union agreement (Tv-L), which by said agreement require a masters degree. I would add the detail that it is not possible to waive this prerequisite for such positions. The professor can still take you as a student (If the university allows it) and even pay you from other sources (if he has some), he just can't employ you on those specific positions, even if he wants to.
– mlk
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
Most of the paid positions are designated as E13 in the the union agreement (Tv-L), which by said agreement require a masters degree. I would add the detail that it is not possible to waive this prerequisite for such positions. The professor can still take you as a student (If the university allows it) and even pay you from other sources (if he has some), he just can't employ you on those specific positions, even if he wants to.
– mlk
1 hour ago
Most of the paid positions are designated as E13 in the the union agreement (Tv-L), which by said agreement require a masters degree. I would add the detail that it is not possible to waive this prerequisite for such positions. The professor can still take you as a student (If the university allows it) and even pay you from other sources (if he has some), he just can't employ you on those specific positions, even if he wants to.
– mlk
1 hour ago
Most of the paid positions are designated as E13 in the the union agreement (Tv-L), which by said agreement require a masters degree. I would add the detail that it is not possible to waive this prerequisite for such positions. The professor can still take you as a student (If the university allows it) and even pay you from other sources (if he has some), he just can't employ you on those specific positions, even if he wants to.
– mlk
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
tl;dr: You'd typically need Master's. Read on to find out why.
The "traditional" German higher education system had only one kind of a degree before PhD, the Diplom. It's typically translated as MSc and it's not wrong: basically, it was a 5 years degree. You'd typically need this degree, and having it from a university (and not a Fachhochschule, a polytechnical university) in order to start a PhD.
Then, Bologna happened.
The current scheme in Germany is: 3 years BSc + 2 years MSc. Though the initial thought was to have a US system, where most of the students exit university with a BSc, it did not took off. Most companies and universities themselves saw "just" BSc as inferior and still required a MSc degree. It got a bit better nowadays.
It is possible to get a job with a BSc, even if it would pay less.
It is also possible to start your PhD with a BSc. But it's much, much harder. In many places special "fast-track" programmes exist. Details depend on the location. Typically, they allow a future PhD candidate to study for their MSc, but in a sort-of accelerated manner, for example, the MSc thesis is then allowed to be a topic from the future PhD. Further, typically the non-MSc holders are payed less, E12 level instead of E13.
All this requires, however, further, and in some cases non-insignificant actions from the advisor. So, there might be a certain willingness to employ a BSc-holder. It might be easier, if it's a four-years BSc. The typical "fits all" requirement is, however, a MSc.
A further notice. There are two sides to doing a PhD in Germany. 1) The general advisor-student relationship. It is about research and mentoring. No money is involved in this relationship. (You might want to register as a (PhD-)student with the university, it costs not much.) 2) The employer-employee relationship. The "funded position" is not really connected to the readiness to supervise a student. (Yes, it is often coinciding, but it is not required to be so.)
My point is: you should really ask very directly, does this particular professor really want to supervise you as a prospective PhD student (even with "only" a BSc), or do they do the former and have money for your position.
answered 1 hour ago
Oleg Lobachev
4,2511119
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
tl;dr: You'd typically need Master's. Read on to find out why.
The "traditional" German higher education system had only one kind of a degree before PhD, the Diplom. It's typically translated as MSc and it's not wrong: basically, it was a 5 years degree. You'd typically need this degree, and having it from a university (and not a Fachhochschule, a polytechnical university) in order to start a PhD.
Then, Bologna happened.
The current scheme in Germany is: 3 years BSc + 2 years MSc. Though the initial thought was to have a US system, where most of the students exit university with a BSc, it did not took off. Most companies and universities themselves saw "just" BSc as inferior and still required a MSc degree. It got a bit better nowadays.
It is possible to get a job with a BSc, even if it would pay less.
It is also possible to start your PhD with a BSc. But it's much, much harder. In many places special "fast-track" programmes exist. Details depend on the location. Typically, they allow a future PhD candidate to study for their MSc, but in a sort-of accelerated manner, for example, the MSc thesis is then allowed to be a topic from the future PhD. Further, typically the non-MSc holders are payed less, E12 level instead of E13.
All this requires, however, further, and in some cases non-insignificant actions from the advisor. So, there might be a certain willingness to employ a BSc-holder. It might be easier, if it's a four-years BSc. The typical "fits all" requirement is, however, a MSc.
A further notice. There are two sides to doing a PhD in Germany. 1) The general advisor-student relationship. It is about research and mentoring. No money is involved in this relationship. (You might want to register as a (PhD-)student with the university, it costs not much.) 2) The employer-employee relationship. The "funded position" is not really connected to the readiness to supervise a student. (Yes, it is often coinciding, but it is not required to be so.)
My point is: you should really ask very directly, does this particular professor really want to supervise you as a prospective PhD student (even with "only" a BSc), or do they do the former and have money for your position.
answered 1 hour ago
Oleg Lobachev
4,2511119
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
tl;dr: You'd typically need Master's. Read on to find out why.
The "traditional" German higher education system had only one kind of a degree before PhD, the Diplom. It's typically translated as MSc and it's not wrong: basically, it was a 5 years degree. You'd typically need this degree, and having it from a university (and not a Fachhochschule, a polytechnical university) in order to start a PhD.
Then, Bologna happened.
The current scheme in Germany is: 3 years BSc + 2 years MSc. Though the initial thought was to have a US system, where most of the students exit university with a BSc, it did not took off. Most companies and universities themselves saw "just" BSc as inferior and still required a MSc degree. It got a bit better nowadays.
It is possible to get a job with a BSc, even if it would pay less.
It is also possible to start your PhD with a BSc. But it's much, much harder. In many places special "fast-track" programmes exist. Details depend on the location. Typically, they allow a future PhD candidate to study for their MSc, but in a sort-of accelerated manner, for example, the MSc thesis is then allowed to be a topic from the future PhD. Further, typically the non-MSc holders are payed less, E12 level instead of E13.
All this requires, however, further, and in some cases non-insignificant actions from the advisor. So, there might be a certain willingness to employ a BSc-holder. It might be easier, if it's a four-years BSc. The typical "fits all" requirement is, however, a MSc.
A further notice. There are two sides to doing a PhD in Germany. 1) The general advisor-student relationship. It is about research and mentoring. No money is involved in this relationship. (You might want to register as a (PhD-)student with the university, it costs not much.) 2) The employer-employee relationship. The "funded position" is not really connected to the readiness to supervise a student. (Yes, it is often coinciding, but it is not required to be so.)
My point is: you should really ask very directly, does this particular professor really want to supervise you as a prospective PhD student (even with "only" a BSc), or do they do the former and have money for your position.
answered 1 hour ago
Oleg Lobachev
4,2511119
tl;dr: You'd typically need Master's. Read on to find out why.
The "traditional" German higher education system had only one kind of a degree before PhD, the Diplom. It's typically translated as MSc and it's not wrong: basically, it was a 5 years degree. You'd typically need this degree, and having it from a university (and not a Fachhochschule, a polytechnical university) in order to start a PhD.
Then, Bologna happened.
The current scheme in Germany is: 3 years BSc + 2 years MSc. Though the initial thought was to have a US system, where most of the students exit university with a BSc, it did not took off. Most companies and universities themselves saw "just" BSc as inferior and still required a MSc degree. It got a bit better nowadays.
It is possible to get a job with a BSc, even if it would pay less.
It is also possible to start your PhD with a BSc. But it's much, much harder. In many places special "fast-track" programmes exist. Details depend on the location. Typically, they allow a future PhD candidate to study for their MSc, but in a sort-of accelerated manner, for example, the MSc thesis is then allowed to be a topic from the future PhD. Further, typically the non-MSc holders are payed less, E12 level instead of E13.
All this requires, however, further, and in some cases non-insignificant actions from the advisor. So, there might be a certain willingness to employ a BSc-holder. It might be easier, if it's a four-years BSc. The typical "fits all" requirement is, however, a MSc.
A further notice. There are two sides to doing a PhD in Germany. 1) The general advisor-student relationship. It is about research and mentoring. No money is involved in this relationship. (You might want to register as a (PhD-)student with the university, it costs not much.) 2) The employer-employee relationship. The "funded position" is not really connected to the readiness to supervise a student. (Yes, it is often coinciding, but it is not required to be so.)
My point is: you should really ask very directly, does this particular professor really want to supervise you as a prospective PhD student (even with "only" a BSc), or do they do the former and have money for your position.
answered 1 hour ago
Oleg Lobachev
4,2511119
answered 1 hour ago
Oleg Lobachev
4,2511119
answered 1 hour ago
Oleg Lobachev
4,2511119
answered 1 hour ago
Oleg Lobachev
4,2511119
4,2511119
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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1
To be honest I don't know any institute in my area where it is allowed to do a Ph.D with a bachelor in germany. But in general it is possible. As far as I know it is up to the one who is supervising to hire you for the position. If he finds you suited, he can hire you. The university will put some conditions on you once you enroll officially as a Ph.D student like completing courses and successfully finish them if you have a bachelor's degree. The same can happen with a masters degree but to a lesser extent
– Amazonasmann
1 hour ago
Anecdotal Ecidence: I heard that if you published during your bachelor course, you are qualified to start a PhD program, because you have already proven that you can do research and work in a scientific manner. I think in practice, you'll probably need outstanding achievements having only a bachelor's degree.
– problemofficer
1 hour ago