Chord exceptions in City of New Orleans

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Here are the first few chords of "City of New Orleans" as performed by Arlo Guthrie:

F# C# F# D#m B F#

F# C# F# D#m B F#

D#m A#m C# G#

If I lay out the chords in a roman numeral chart, starting at F#, I get:

| I | ii | iii | IV | V | vi | vii⁰ |
|----+-----+-----+----+----+-----+------|
| F# | G#m | A#m | B | C# | D#m | Fdim |

So, in the song, he plays a G#. However, the chart predicts a G#m, which is an exception to the chart that sounds good.

Where can I read about these "exceptions"?

Thanks!

chord-theory chord-progressions roman-numerals

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asked 2 hours ago

dharmatech

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up vote
1
down vote

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Here are the first few chords of "City of New Orleans" as performed by Arlo Guthrie:

F# C# F# D#m B F#

F# C# F# D#m B F#

D#m A#m C# G#

If I lay out the chords in a roman numeral chart, starting at F#, I get:

| I | ii | iii | IV | V | vi | vii⁰ |
|----+-----+-----+----+----+-----+------|
| F# | G#m | A#m | B | C# | D#m | Fdim |

So, in the song, he plays a G#. However, the chart predicts a G#m, which is an exception to the chart that sounds good.

Where can I read about these "exceptions"?

Thanks!

chord-theory chord-progressions roman-numerals

share|improve this question

asked 2 hours ago

dharmatech

1083

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dharmatech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

favorite

up vote
1
down vote

favorite

Here are the first few chords of "City of New Orleans" as performed by Arlo Guthrie:

F# C# F# D#m B F#

F# C# F# D#m B F#

D#m A#m C# G#

If I lay out the chords in a roman numeral chart, starting at F#, I get:

| I | ii | iii | IV | V | vi | vii⁰ |
|----+-----+-----+----+----+-----+------|
| F# | G#m | A#m | B | C# | D#m | Fdim |

So, in the song, he plays a G#. However, the chart predicts a G#m, which is an exception to the chart that sounds good.

Where can I read about these "exceptions"?

Thanks!

chord-theory chord-progressions roman-numerals

share|improve this question

asked 2 hours ago

dharmatech

1083

New contributor

dharmatech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

Here are the first few chords of "City of New Orleans" as performed by Arlo Guthrie:

F# C# F# D#m B F#

F# C# F# D#m B F#

D#m A#m C# G#

If I lay out the chords in a roman numeral chart, starting at F#, I get:

| I | ii | iii | IV | V | vi | vii⁰ |
|----+-----+-----+----+----+-----+------|
| F# | G#m | A#m | B | C# | D#m | Fdim |

So, in the song, he plays a G#. However, the chart predicts a G#m, which is an exception to the chart that sounds good.

Where can I read about these "exceptions"?

Thanks!

chord-theory chord-progressions roman-numerals

chord-theory chord-progressions roman-numerals

share|improve this question

asked 2 hours ago

dharmatech

1083

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dharmatech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

asked 2 hours ago

dharmatech

1083

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dharmatech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

share|improve this question

asked 2 hours ago

dharmatech

1083

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dharmatech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 2 hours ago

dharmatech

1083

asked 2 hours ago

dharmatech

1083

1083

New contributor

dharmatech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

New contributor

dharmatech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

dharmatech is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

add a comment | 

add a comment | 

1 Answer
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The chords you've listed in your table are what we call the diatonic triads of a key. "Diatonic" basically just means "within the key," so the diatonic triads are what are created when we only use the pitches in a key's key signature.

(Quick note related to key signatures: your vii° chord will actually be E♯°, not F°, because E♯ is the seventh scale degree in F♯ major. For more on this concept, see Why do notes have multiple names?)

The opposite of diatonic is chromatic. Put another way, a chromatic pitch is a pitch that is not in the key's key signature. The G♯-major chord in question has B♯ as its chordal third, which is not in the key signature of F♯ (that would be B♮).

So whenever we have a chromatic chord like this, we want to try and understand how it functions. In many cases, the appearance of an unexpected major triad can be understood as being a temporary V (or "dominant") of another chord. In this case, the G♯-major chord can best be understood as a temporary V of the C♯ that comes before it. We say that this G♯-major chord is V/V (read "five of five") because it is V of C♯, which is itself V of the tonic F♯. We also call this chord a secondary dominant or applied dominant.

Typically the secondary dominant chord appears before its resolution; in other words, it's more normal for the G♯-major chord to resolve to C♯ major. But sometimes we have the applied dominant come after the temporary tonic, too. (It's unclear to me where this G♯ moves; it might go back to C♯!)

As for another "exception," if you ever encounter a minor chord where you're not expecting it, it's often a result of mode mixture (some use the term "borrowed chords"). (See How do I correctly borrow chords from one key to another? for one possible discussion of mode mixture. You also might enjoy What are the different ways of adding non-diatonic chords?)

TL;DR: That G♯ chord is understood as a temporary V/C♯. Since C♯ is itself V of F♯, we label this chord V/V.

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 1 hour ago

Richard

34.7k676147

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Wonderful answer! Thank you Richard!
  – dharmatech
  2 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

up vote
4
down vote



accepted

The chords you've listed in your table are what we call the diatonic triads of a key. "Diatonic" basically just means "within the key," so the diatonic triads are what are created when we only use the pitches in a key's key signature.

(Quick note related to key signatures: your vii° chord will actually be E♯°, not F°, because E♯ is the seventh scale degree in F♯ major. For more on this concept, see Why do notes have multiple names?)

The opposite of diatonic is chromatic. Put another way, a chromatic pitch is a pitch that is not in the key's key signature. The G♯-major chord in question has B♯ as its chordal third, which is not in the key signature of F♯ (that would be B♮).

So whenever we have a chromatic chord like this, we want to try and understand how it functions. In many cases, the appearance of an unexpected major triad can be understood as being a temporary V (or "dominant") of another chord. In this case, the G♯-major chord can best be understood as a temporary V of the C♯ that comes before it. We say that this G♯-major chord is V/V (read "five of five") because it is V of C♯, which is itself V of the tonic F♯. We also call this chord a secondary dominant or applied dominant.

Typically the secondary dominant chord appears before its resolution; in other words, it's more normal for the G♯-major chord to resolve to C♯ major. But sometimes we have the applied dominant come after the temporary tonic, too. (It's unclear to me where this G♯ moves; it might go back to C♯!)

As for another "exception," if you ever encounter a minor chord where you're not expecting it, it's often a result of mode mixture (some use the term "borrowed chords"). (See How do I correctly borrow chords from one key to another? for one possible discussion of mode mixture. You also might enjoy What are the different ways of adding non-diatonic chords?)

TL;DR: That G♯ chord is understood as a temporary V/C♯. Since C♯ is itself V of F♯, we label this chord V/V.

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 1 hour ago

Richard

34.7k676147

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Wonderful answer! Thank you Richard!
  – dharmatech
  2 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
4
down vote



accepted

The chords you've listed in your table are what we call the diatonic triads of a key. "Diatonic" basically just means "within the key," so the diatonic triads are what are created when we only use the pitches in a key's key signature.

(Quick note related to key signatures: your vii° chord will actually be E♯°, not F°, because E♯ is the seventh scale degree in F♯ major. For more on this concept, see Why do notes have multiple names?)

The opposite of diatonic is chromatic. Put another way, a chromatic pitch is a pitch that is not in the key's key signature. The G♯-major chord in question has B♯ as its chordal third, which is not in the key signature of F♯ (that would be B♮).

So whenever we have a chromatic chord like this, we want to try and understand how it functions. In many cases, the appearance of an unexpected major triad can be understood as being a temporary V (or "dominant") of another chord. In this case, the G♯-major chord can best be understood as a temporary V of the C♯ that comes before it. We say that this G♯-major chord is V/V (read "five of five") because it is V of C♯, which is itself V of the tonic F♯. We also call this chord a secondary dominant or applied dominant.

Typically the secondary dominant chord appears before its resolution; in other words, it's more normal for the G♯-major chord to resolve to C♯ major. But sometimes we have the applied dominant come after the temporary tonic, too. (It's unclear to me where this G♯ moves; it might go back to C♯!)

As for another "exception," if you ever encounter a minor chord where you're not expecting it, it's often a result of mode mixture (some use the term "borrowed chords"). (See How do I correctly borrow chords from one key to another? for one possible discussion of mode mixture. You also might enjoy What are the different ways of adding non-diatonic chords?)

TL;DR: That G♯ chord is understood as a temporary V/C♯. Since C♯ is itself V of F♯, we label this chord V/V.

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 1 hour ago

Richard

34.7k676147

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Wonderful answer! Thank you Richard!
  – dharmatech
  2 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
4
down vote



accepted

up vote
4
down vote



accepted

The chords you've listed in your table are what we call the diatonic triads of a key. "Diatonic" basically just means "within the key," so the diatonic triads are what are created when we only use the pitches in a key's key signature.

(Quick note related to key signatures: your vii° chord will actually be E♯°, not F°, because E♯ is the seventh scale degree in F♯ major. For more on this concept, see Why do notes have multiple names?)

The opposite of diatonic is chromatic. Put another way, a chromatic pitch is a pitch that is not in the key's key signature. The G♯-major chord in question has B♯ as its chordal third, which is not in the key signature of F♯ (that would be B♮).

So whenever we have a chromatic chord like this, we want to try and understand how it functions. In many cases, the appearance of an unexpected major triad can be understood as being a temporary V (or "dominant") of another chord. In this case, the G♯-major chord can best be understood as a temporary V of the C♯ that comes before it. We say that this G♯-major chord is V/V (read "five of five") because it is V of C♯, which is itself V of the tonic F♯. We also call this chord a secondary dominant or applied dominant.

Typically the secondary dominant chord appears before its resolution; in other words, it's more normal for the G♯-major chord to resolve to C♯ major. But sometimes we have the applied dominant come after the temporary tonic, too. (It's unclear to me where this G♯ moves; it might go back to C♯!)

As for another "exception," if you ever encounter a minor chord where you're not expecting it, it's often a result of mode mixture (some use the term "borrowed chords"). (See How do I correctly borrow chords from one key to another? for one possible discussion of mode mixture. You also might enjoy What are the different ways of adding non-diatonic chords?)

TL;DR: That G♯ chord is understood as a temporary V/C♯. Since C♯ is itself V of F♯, we label this chord V/V.

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 1 hour ago

Richard

34.7k676147

The chords you've listed in your table are what we call the diatonic triads of a key. "Diatonic" basically just means "within the key," so the diatonic triads are what are created when we only use the pitches in a key's key signature.

(Quick note related to key signatures: your vii° chord will actually be E♯°, not F°, because E♯ is the seventh scale degree in F♯ major. For more on this concept, see Why do notes have multiple names?)

The opposite of diatonic is chromatic. Put another way, a chromatic pitch is a pitch that is not in the key's key signature. The G♯-major chord in question has B♯ as its chordal third, which is not in the key signature of F♯ (that would be B♮).

So whenever we have a chromatic chord like this, we want to try and understand how it functions. In many cases, the appearance of an unexpected major triad can be understood as being a temporary V (or "dominant") of another chord. In this case, the G♯-major chord can best be understood as a temporary V of the C♯ that comes before it. We say that this G♯-major chord is V/V (read "five of five") because it is V of C♯, which is itself V of the tonic F♯. We also call this chord a secondary dominant or applied dominant.

Typically the secondary dominant chord appears before its resolution; in other words, it's more normal for the G♯-major chord to resolve to C♯ major. But sometimes we have the applied dominant come after the temporary tonic, too. (It's unclear to me where this G♯ moves; it might go back to C♯!)

As for another "exception," if you ever encounter a minor chord where you're not expecting it, it's often a result of mode mixture (some use the term "borrowed chords"). (See How do I correctly borrow chords from one key to another? for one possible discussion of mode mixture. You also might enjoy What are the different ways of adding non-diatonic chords?)

TL;DR: That G♯ chord is understood as a temporary V/C♯. Since C♯ is itself V of F♯, we label this chord V/V.

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 1 hour ago

Richard

34.7k676147

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

edited 1 hour ago

edited 1 hour ago

answered 1 hour ago

Richard

34.7k676147

answered 1 hour ago

Richard

34.7k676147

answered 1 hour ago

Richard

34.7k676147

34.7k676147

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Wonderful answer! Thank you Richard!
  – dharmatech
  2 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Wonderful answer! Thank you Richard!
  – dharmatech
  2 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

Wonderful answer! Thank you Richard!
– dharmatech
2 mins ago

Wonderful answer! Thank you Richard!
– dharmatech
2 mins ago

add a comment | 

dharmatech is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.

 

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