Does the Inquisitive Rogue's Ear for Deceit feature mesh with their Insightful Fighting feature?

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There are two features that an Inquisitive Rogue (XGtE, p. 45-46) gains:




Ear for Deceit



When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you develop a talent for picking out lies. Whenever you make a Wisdom (Insight) check to determine whether a creature is lying, treat a roll of 7 or lower on the d20 as an 8.




and




Insightful Fighting



At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.




When invoking Insightful Fighting, does the bonus from Ear for Deceit apply to the Insight roll? I feel as though this might be a bit too strong: if my character has a +2 to Wisdom and takes Expertise in Insight, then this check would have a minimum of 8 + 2 + 4 = 14 at the 3rd level.



However, the use of language




...determine whether a creature is lying...




and




...contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check,




where page 178 of the Player's Handbook states




Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions




makes it feel as though Ear for Deceit ought to apply to Insightful Fighting.



Is an Inquisitive rogue making an Insight check for Insightful Fighting able to apply the benefit of Ear of Deceit to that roll?






dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue







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    up vote
    2
    down vote

    favorite












    There are two features that an Inquisitive Rogue (XGtE, p. 45-46) gains:




    Ear for Deceit



    When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you develop a talent for picking out lies. Whenever you make a Wisdom (Insight) check to determine whether a creature is lying, treat a roll of 7 or lower on the d20 as an 8.




    and




    Insightful Fighting



    At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.




    When invoking Insightful Fighting, does the bonus from Ear for Deceit apply to the Insight roll? I feel as though this might be a bit too strong: if my character has a +2 to Wisdom and takes Expertise in Insight, then this check would have a minimum of 8 + 2 + 4 = 14 at the 3rd level.



    However, the use of language




    ...determine whether a creature is lying...




    and




    ...contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check,




    where page 178 of the Player's Handbook states




    Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions




    makes it feel as though Ear for Deceit ought to apply to Insightful Fighting.



    Is an Inquisitive rogue making an Insight check for Insightful Fighting able to apply the benefit of Ear of Deceit to that roll?






    dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue







    share|improve this question

























      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite











      There are two features that an Inquisitive Rogue (XGtE, p. 45-46) gains:




      Ear for Deceit



      When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you develop a talent for picking out lies. Whenever you make a Wisdom (Insight) check to determine whether a creature is lying, treat a roll of 7 or lower on the d20 as an 8.




      and




      Insightful Fighting



      At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.




      When invoking Insightful Fighting, does the bonus from Ear for Deceit apply to the Insight roll? I feel as though this might be a bit too strong: if my character has a +2 to Wisdom and takes Expertise in Insight, then this check would have a minimum of 8 + 2 + 4 = 14 at the 3rd level.



      However, the use of language




      ...determine whether a creature is lying...




      and




      ...contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check,




      where page 178 of the Player's Handbook states




      Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions




      makes it feel as though Ear for Deceit ought to apply to Insightful Fighting.



      Is an Inquisitive rogue making an Insight check for Insightful Fighting able to apply the benefit of Ear of Deceit to that roll?






      dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue







      share|improve this question















      There are two features that an Inquisitive Rogue (XGtE, p. 45-46) gains:




      Ear for Deceit



      When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you develop a talent for picking out lies. Whenever you make a Wisdom (Insight) check to determine whether a creature is lying, treat a roll of 7 or lower on the d20 as an 8.




      and




      Insightful Fighting



      At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.




      When invoking Insightful Fighting, does the bonus from Ear for Deceit apply to the Insight roll? I feel as though this might be a bit too strong: if my character has a +2 to Wisdom and takes Expertise in Insight, then this check would have a minimum of 8 + 2 + 4 = 14 at the 3rd level.



      However, the use of language




      ...determine whether a creature is lying...




      and




      ...contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check,




      where page 178 of the Player's Handbook states




      Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions




      makes it feel as though Ear for Deceit ought to apply to Insightful Fighting.



      Is an Inquisitive rogue making an Insight check for Insightful Fighting able to apply the benefit of Ear of Deceit to that roll?






      dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue




      dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue






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      edited 3 hours ago









      V2Blast

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      asked 5 hours ago









      Santana Afton

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          You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.



          If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.






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          • Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
            – Santana Afton
            4 hours ago

















          up vote
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          Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting



          The rules for Deception checks state:




          Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.




          Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.



          Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.



          However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.






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          • Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
            – Santana Afton
            3 hours ago










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          You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.



          If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.






          share|improve this answer




















          • Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
            – Santana Afton
            4 hours ago














          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted










          You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.



          If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.






          share|improve this answer




















          • Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
            – Santana Afton
            4 hours ago












          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted






          You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.



          If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.






          share|improve this answer












          You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.



          If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 4 hours ago









          David Coffron

          30.6k2105212




          30.6k2105212











          • Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
            – Santana Afton
            4 hours ago
















          • Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
            – Santana Afton
            4 hours ago















          Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
          – Santana Afton
          4 hours ago




          Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
          – Santana Afton
          4 hours ago












          up vote
          2
          down vote













          Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting



          The rules for Deception checks state:




          Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.




          Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.



          Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.



          However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.






          share|improve this answer






















          • Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
            – Santana Afton
            3 hours ago














          up vote
          2
          down vote













          Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting



          The rules for Deception checks state:




          Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.




          Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.



          Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.



          However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.






          share|improve this answer






















          • Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
            – Santana Afton
            3 hours ago












          up vote
          2
          down vote










          up vote
          2
          down vote









          Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting



          The rules for Deception checks state:




          Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.




          Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.



          Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.



          However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.






          share|improve this answer














          Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting



          The rules for Deception checks state:




          Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.




          Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.



          Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.



          However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 3 hours ago

























          answered 4 hours ago









          Ruse

          4,844843




          4,844843











          • Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
            – Santana Afton
            3 hours ago
















          • Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
            – Santana Afton
            3 hours ago















          Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
          – Santana Afton
          3 hours ago




          Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
          – Santana Afton
          3 hours ago

















           

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