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Does the Inquisitive Rogue's Ear for Deceit feature mesh with their Insightful Fighting feature?
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There are two features that an Inquisitive Rogue (XGtE, p. 45-46) gains:
Ear for Deceit
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you develop a talent for picking out lies. Whenever you make a Wisdom (Insight) check to determine whether a creature is lying, treat a roll of 7 or lower on the d20 as an 8.
and
Insightful Fighting
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.
When invoking Insightful Fighting, does the bonus from Ear for Deceit apply to the Insight roll? I feel as though this might be a bit too strong: if my character has a +2 to Wisdom and takes Expertise in Insight, then this check would have a minimum of 8 + 2 + 4 = 14 at the 3rd level.
However, the use of language
...determine whether a creature is lying...
and
...contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check,
where page 178 of the Player's Handbook states
Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions
makes it feel as though Ear for Deceit ought to apply to Insightful Fighting.
Is an Inquisitive rogue making an Insight check for Insightful Fighting able to apply the benefit of Ear of Deceit to that roll?
dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
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asked 5 hours ago
Santana Afton
38039
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up vote
2
down vote
favorite
There are two features that an Inquisitive Rogue (XGtE, p. 45-46) gains:
Ear for Deceit
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you develop a talent for picking out lies. Whenever you make a Wisdom (Insight) check to determine whether a creature is lying, treat a roll of 7 or lower on the d20 as an 8.
and
Insightful Fighting
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.
When invoking Insightful Fighting, does the bonus from Ear for Deceit apply to the Insight roll? I feel as though this might be a bit too strong: if my character has a +2 to Wisdom and takes Expertise in Insight, then this check would have a minimum of 8 + 2 + 4 = 14 at the 3rd level.
However, the use of language
...determine whether a creature is lying...
and
...contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check,
where page 178 of the Player's Handbook states
Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions
makes it feel as though Ear for Deceit ought to apply to Insightful Fighting.
Is an Inquisitive rogue making an Insight check for Insightful Fighting able to apply the benefit of Ear of Deceit to that roll?
dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
17.5k247112
asked 5 hours ago
Santana Afton
38039
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
There are two features that an Inquisitive Rogue (XGtE, p. 45-46) gains:
Ear for Deceit
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you develop a talent for picking out lies. Whenever you make a Wisdom (Insight) check to determine whether a creature is lying, treat a roll of 7 or lower on the d20 as an 8.
and
Insightful Fighting
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.
When invoking Insightful Fighting, does the bonus from Ear for Deceit apply to the Insight roll? I feel as though this might be a bit too strong: if my character has a +2 to Wisdom and takes Expertise in Insight, then this check would have a minimum of 8 + 2 + 4 = 14 at the 3rd level.
However, the use of language
...determine whether a creature is lying...
and
...contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check,
where page 178 of the Player's Handbook states
Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions
makes it feel as though Ear for Deceit ought to apply to Insightful Fighting.
Is an Inquisitive rogue making an Insight check for Insightful Fighting able to apply the benefit of Ear of Deceit to that roll?
dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
17.5k247112
asked 5 hours ago
Santana Afton
38039
There are two features that an Inquisitive Rogue (XGtE, p. 45-46) gains:
Ear for Deceit
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you develop a talent for picking out lies. Whenever you make a Wisdom (Insight) check to determine whether a creature is lying, treat a roll of 7 or lower on the d20 as an 8.
and
Insightful Fighting
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.
When invoking Insightful Fighting, does the bonus from Ear for Deceit apply to the Insight roll? I feel as though this might be a bit too strong: if my character has a +2 to Wisdom and takes Expertise in Insight, then this check would have a minimum of 8 + 2 + 4 = 14 at the 3rd level.
However, the use of language
...determine whether a creature is lying...
and
...contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check,
where page 178 of the Player's Handbook states
Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions
makes it feel as though Ear for Deceit ought to apply to Insightful Fighting.
Is an Inquisitive rogue making an Insight check for Insightful Fighting able to apply the benefit of Ear of Deceit to that roll?
dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue
dnd-5e class-feature skills rogue
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
17.5k247112
asked 5 hours ago
Santana Afton
38039
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
17.5k247112
asked 5 hours ago
Santana Afton
38039
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
17.5k247112
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
17.5k247112
edited 3 hours ago
V2Blast
17.5k247112
17.5k247112
asked 5 hours ago
Santana Afton
38039
asked 5 hours ago
Santana Afton
38039
asked 5 hours ago
Santana Afton
38039
38039
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.
If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.
answered 4 hours ago
David Coffron
30.6k2105212
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
– Santana Afton
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting
The rules for Deception checks state:
Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.
Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.
Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.
However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.
answered 4 hours ago
Ruse
4,844843
Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
– Santana Afton
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.
If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.
answered 4 hours ago
David Coffron
30.6k2105212
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
– Santana Afton
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.
If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.
answered 4 hours ago
David Coffron
30.6k2105212
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
– Santana Afton
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.
If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.
answered 4 hours ago
David Coffron
30.6k2105212
You don't benefit from Eye for Deceit when using Insightful Fighting.
If Insightful Fighting involved figuring out whether someone is lying, it would say so. In this case, Deception is a measure of the ability of the target to disguise its tactics. This is not lying in a conventional sense. 5th edition is made to be read in plain English and if this non-traditional usage of the word lying was intended to be included it would say so. In general, features say what they mean.
answered 4 hours ago
David Coffron
30.6k2105212
answered 4 hours ago
David Coffron
30.6k2105212
answered 4 hours ago
David Coffron
30.6k2105212
answered 4 hours ago
David Coffron
30.6k2105212
30.6k2105212
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
– Santana Afton
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
– Santana Afton
4 hours ago
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
– Santana Afton
4 hours ago
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification!
– Santana Afton
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting
The rules for Deception checks state:
Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.
Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.
Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.
However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.
answered 4 hours ago
Ruse
4,844843
Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
– Santana Afton
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting
The rules for Deception checks state:
Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.
Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.
Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.
However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.
answered 4 hours ago
Ruse
4,844843
Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
– Santana Afton
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting
The rules for Deception checks state:
Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.
Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.
Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.
However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.
answered 4 hours ago
Ruse
4,844843
Ear for Deceit does not work with Insightful Fighting
The rules for Deception checks state:
Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.
Lying is one way to "convincingly hide the truth", but not the only way. For example, you could "mislead others through ambiguity" or "pass yourself off in a disguise" without ever lying.
Insightful fighting is just another example among many of a Deception check that does not involve lying.
However, it's worth noting that Reliable Talent (which has a similar effect to Ear for Deceit) does work with Insightful Fighting.
answered 4 hours ago
Ruse
4,844843
edited 3 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
Ruse
4,844843
answered 4 hours ago
Ruse
4,844843
answered 4 hours ago
Ruse
4,844843
4,844843
Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
– Santana Afton
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
– Santana Afton
3 hours ago
Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
– Santana Afton
3 hours ago
Thanks for the answer (+1) and for catching my typo. I've edited my post to reflect that.
– Santana Afton
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
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