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Question

This was inspired by this question: Should I allow players to recreate the exact same character if they die?

Whilst it was closed as too subjective (because it asks whether one should want to do this), I think there was an interesting subject matter here, so I'm going to start my question with the premise that I do want to discourage my players from doing this.

As for whether or not I should feel this way, I believe the answers to the other question already cover that (basically, is the rest of the table is troubled by this or just me, and if it is just me then does it really matter if that's what the players find fun?).

However, if I need to justify my position, I personally find it boring and unimaginative and therefore it would take away from my fun to some degree if they just made the same character again after they die (especially since I try to work elements of the player's character's backstory into the game, so if the same character turned up with the same backstory, that would disappoint me). However, it doesn't take away from my fun so much that I want to stop DMing for these players or force them to make different characters.

So, to restate that last point, I don't want to force my players to make a new character; as some of the other question's answers have said, some players just like playing the same character (either literally, same name and backstory and everything, especially if they don't take character death well, or more broadly the same character, such as someone who always makes a dwarf fighter with roughly the same personality but with a different name and a slight variation to their backstory), in which case there probably isn't an answer to this question that wouldn't reduce their fun. Hence this question isn't about those players who won't budge, it's about players who aren't quite so determined to make the same character over and over, but might do so anyway.

So, to try to keep this within the limits of "Good Subjective", my question is: what methods have you personally used or seen that successfully encouraged players to make new characters or discouraged them from making the same character without forcing the players into it?

I imagine most answers will be answering from the perspective of the DM, but if someone has achieved this as a player, influencing another player to make a different character (without forcing them), then such answers are also welcome.

NathanS 18.4k676194 · Answer 1 · 2018-11-06 13:48:16Z

Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

To throw out a suggestion to answer my own question, there's something my current DM does, and that's to get people thinking of backup character ideas whilst their current PCs are still alive and well.

Literally, he just says "All of you should be thinking of backup ideas for characters, by the way, should your current one die" once in a while (usually when the session ends on a "how do we get out of this one?" moment); nothing more involved than that, but I think this sort of encouragement helped me, at least, to start thinking of a new character rather than staying too focussed on my current one. This makes it clear that none of our characters have plot armour, and at the same time, implies that death is not the end but rather the beginning of your new character (although this is a reflection of mine, not something he said).

I want to point out that he's not a DM out for blood; he's not running Tomb of Horrors or something where it might be a good idea to turn up with a few characters already created and ready to go for when your current character inevitably dies, this is more about just thinking of the character's concept ahead of time.

Thinking about who or what this other character could be whilst my current character is still alive has encouraged me to think of someone different; I'm deliberately trying to come up with someone who is different, in race, class, playstyle, personality, etc, whereas I might not have been thinking in such a deliberate way otherwise.

I know of at least one other player in this game who has also been thinking of a backup character relatively different from their current one. Again, it's not as well defined as their current PC yet, but I believe it is at least some amount of evidence that my DM's tactic has worked.

Furthermore, I have successfully employed this method myself as well, as a DM, and managed to get at least one player thinking about a new character or two, all whilst their current character is still alive. In fact, their initial response was to want to tweak or retcon their current character, but by suggesting that their next character could be this thing without needing to change their current character, they have now started thinking of a new backstory for this new character (and on reflection, they were happier leaving their current character as-is, because who they were already fits them better than the suggested retcon).

score 1 · Answer 2 · 2018-11-06 14:59:27Z

Simply forbid it

Is that easy for me to say? Maybe, but in the end that's all there really is to it. You might say 'But I don't have a lot of options in my area for players' or 'But this is my friend and I don't want to deny him' or 'but this guy has some personal circumstances that make having the same character all the time comforting for him' and all that is worth considering, however at the same time, you are the GM, and it falls to you to manage (Not control, this is a collaborative hobby) the fun of the game so that it's fun for you as well as for the players.

If you let the integrity of the game suffer long-term to avoid short-term disagreements, you'll lose more than just a minor argument. Over time, that sort of thing weakens the entire game and before long you've given up too much, and people start finding other things to do with their time.

You're the DM. So be the DM. Any new character requires your approval to exist in play, and if a carbon copy of the old one isn't acceptable, then that's that. If your players are just scratching off the names and writing in new ones if their character dies, that's indicative of a more fundamental problem than just a lack of imagination on their part.

That's a player who is not respecting their own fallen character's narrative and not respecting the stories of the other player characters, and not respecting the game narrative. If they really want to play the same character every time they lose one, then there are games where that are based on exactly that out there.

Pulse Check

Maybe look at what atmosphere you're creating or permitting that allows this sort of thing to come up and work on mitigating that. One way to assess the 'health' of your game is to look at what is happening in-play and what is happening out of play.

In character, do your game sessions flow organically from one scene to the next, with a variety of wonders, monsters, and NPCs to encounter, or are they basically flashes from one set piece to another, with monsters to kill and loot every time? Is there inter-character drama, or are the PCs just stat-puppets for the players to wave at monsters until the monsters fall down? Do the PCs have strong personal relationships to each other, for good or ill, or is all the in-character talk about the next tactical or logistical move?

If what you see isn't what you want to see, then take some in-character steps to fix it. Add variety to your scenes, ramp up on the story-arcs and cut down on random monsters. Infuse purpose into actions of NPCs, both monsters and people (The goblins have become desperate as trade has declined lately, reducing the frequency of raiding targets, or the flower-seller is so persistent because the money helps her pay for care for her sick husband)

Out of character, Is the game talk all about powers and mechanics rather than plot twists and awesome actions? Is the discussion about how much fun people had, or is it complaining about rules and rulings? Do players talk about each other's characters as people, or as stat blocks?

This is a subtle way of encouraging players to embrace variety. If there's a richer world, then players will tend to gravitate toward ways of exploring that world through the eyes of different characters.

Playstyle is important including your own

There's nothing 'badwrongfun' about taking a gamist mechanical approach, however from what you've said in your question, it looks like you want the players to expand their horizons a bit and honor the story of their fallen character, not just say 'oops, my Fighter's dead. Next fighter!' If Fred the Wizard dies, and his identical twin brother Ferd steps in to take his place, and is just like Fred in all other ways, that hurts the game for everybody, including Fred/Ferd's player. As GM, it's your job to ensure that doesn't happen. Often a 'no, try again' is all you need to save yourself months of irritation and headache, which will show through at the table.

Kieveli 993 · Answer 3 · 2018-11-06 14:56:22Z

It is not the DM's role to encourage or discourage the players from making choices (as long as everyone is playing nice). It is your role to tell a story and allow them to freely act within your narrative. If it brings them great pleasure to always play the same character, that's okay.

If you're worried that it will be less fun for you, how about this idea: The world fractures across the Planes each time the person recreates the same character. The lives of the characters become twisted and entwined together. Madness ensues as images of themselves dying, and then illusions that they are being attacked by themselves, but then nothing is there. A shadow of their tortured soul is revealed, and then introduce a soothsayer who can help them locate the tortured soul to free their companion's madness. An adventure leads them into the Planes of existence fraught with danger. The sacrifice to save their fractured soul must be the cost of another life - which they can only discover at their journey's end.

score -1 · Answer 4 · 2018-11-06 15:00:55Z

Backup character is good, but have to be careful when deciding due to party needs of certain class or abilities. If the only healer dies and now you have a halfing fighter, O.o guess he could intimidate a merchant for a discount on health potions.

If they persist to play with the Ã¢Â€ÂœsameÃ¢Â€Â character, have them change the race or theme of character. DonÃ¢Â€Â™t allow them to literally erase the name and fill in a new one on the dead character sheet. Some players just like to play something no matter what.

My old group had a younger brother who was always a half-orc fighter, just because he didnÃ¢Â€Â™t want to RP but wanted to kill things.

Out of D&D, as a personal experience to choosing a single option when playing a game, in Overwatch, I only played Torbjorn! I love turrets and I only choose him because of it. I have tried other characters, but 90% of my gameplay is Torbjorn.

Is the remark about overwatch & turrets actually relevant to answering the question? If so, I'd say something tying it in is missing. If it's not relevant I suggest removing it. (Feel free to flag this comment as No Longer Needed whenever you've actioned this suggestion either way.) — 20 mins ago

NathanS 18.4k676194 · Answer 5 · 2018-11-06 13:48:16Z

Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

To throw out a suggestion to answer my own question, there's something my current DM does, and that's to get people thinking of backup character ideas whilst their current PCs are still alive and well.

Literally, he just says "All of you should be thinking of backup ideas for characters, by the way, should your current one die" once in a while (usually when the session ends on a "how do we get out of this one?" moment); nothing more involved than that, but I think this sort of encouragement helped me, at least, to start thinking of a new character rather than staying too focussed on my current one. This makes it clear that none of our characters have plot armour, and at the same time, implies that death is not the end but rather the beginning of your new character (although this is a reflection of mine, not something he said).

I want to point out that he's not a DM out for blood; he's not running Tomb of Horrors or something where it might be a good idea to turn up with a few characters already created and ready to go for when your current character inevitably dies, this is more about just thinking of the character's concept ahead of time.

Thinking about who or what this other character could be whilst my current character is still alive has encouraged me to think of someone different; I'm deliberately trying to come up with someone who is different, in race, class, playstyle, personality, etc, whereas I might not have been thinking in such a deliberate way otherwise.

I know of at least one other player in this game who has also been thinking of a backup character relatively different from their current one. Again, it's not as well defined as their current PC yet, but I believe it is at least some amount of evidence that my DM's tactic has worked.

Furthermore, I have successfully employed this method myself as well, as a DM, and managed to get at least one player thinking about a new character or two, all whilst their current character is still alive. In fact, their initial response was to want to tweak or retcon their current character, but by suggesting that their next character could be this thing without needing to change their current character, they have now started thinking of a new backstory for this new character (and on reflection, they were happier leaving their current character as-is, because who they were already fits them better than the suggested retcon).

score 1 · Answer 6 · 2018-11-06 14:59:27Z

Simply forbid it

Is that easy for me to say? Maybe, but in the end that's all there really is to it. You might say 'But I don't have a lot of options in my area for players' or 'But this is my friend and I don't want to deny him' or 'but this guy has some personal circumstances that make having the same character all the time comforting for him' and all that is worth considering, however at the same time, you are the GM, and it falls to you to manage (Not control, this is a collaborative hobby) the fun of the game so that it's fun for you as well as for the players.

If you let the integrity of the game suffer long-term to avoid short-term disagreements, you'll lose more than just a minor argument. Over time, that sort of thing weakens the entire game and before long you've given up too much, and people start finding other things to do with their time.

You're the DM. So be the DM. Any new character requires your approval to exist in play, and if a carbon copy of the old one isn't acceptable, then that's that. If your players are just scratching off the names and writing in new ones if their character dies, that's indicative of a more fundamental problem than just a lack of imagination on their part.

That's a player who is not respecting their own fallen character's narrative and not respecting the stories of the other player characters, and not respecting the game narrative. If they really want to play the same character every time they lose one, then there are games where that are based on exactly that out there.

Pulse Check

Maybe look at what atmosphere you're creating or permitting that allows this sort of thing to come up and work on mitigating that. One way to assess the 'health' of your game is to look at what is happening in-play and what is happening out of play.

In character, do your game sessions flow organically from one scene to the next, with a variety of wonders, monsters, and NPCs to encounter, or are they basically flashes from one set piece to another, with monsters to kill and loot every time? Is there inter-character drama, or are the PCs just stat-puppets for the players to wave at monsters until the monsters fall down? Do the PCs have strong personal relationships to each other, for good or ill, or is all the in-character talk about the next tactical or logistical move?

If what you see isn't what you want to see, then take some in-character steps to fix it. Add variety to your scenes, ramp up on the story-arcs and cut down on random monsters. Infuse purpose into actions of NPCs, both monsters and people (The goblins have become desperate as trade has declined lately, reducing the frequency of raiding targets, or the flower-seller is so persistent because the money helps her pay for care for her sick husband)

Out of character, Is the game talk all about powers and mechanics rather than plot twists and awesome actions? Is the discussion about how much fun people had, or is it complaining about rules and rulings? Do players talk about each other's characters as people, or as stat blocks?

This is a subtle way of encouraging players to embrace variety. If there's a richer world, then players will tend to gravitate toward ways of exploring that world through the eyes of different characters.

Playstyle is important including your own

There's nothing 'badwrongfun' about taking a gamist mechanical approach, however from what you've said in your question, it looks like you want the players to expand their horizons a bit and honor the story of their fallen character, not just say 'oops, my Fighter's dead. Next fighter!' If Fred the Wizard dies, and his identical twin brother Ferd steps in to take his place, and is just like Fred in all other ways, that hurts the game for everybody, including Fred/Ferd's player. As GM, it's your job to ensure that doesn't happen. Often a 'no, try again' is all you need to save yourself months of irritation and headache, which will show through at the table.

Kieveli 993 · Answer 7 · 2018-11-06 14:56:22Z

It is not the DM's role to encourage or discourage the players from making choices (as long as everyone is playing nice). It is your role to tell a story and allow them to freely act within your narrative. If it brings them great pleasure to always play the same character, that's okay.

If you're worried that it will be less fun for you, how about this idea: The world fractures across the Planes each time the person recreates the same character. The lives of the characters become twisted and entwined together. Madness ensues as images of themselves dying, and then illusions that they are being attacked by themselves, but then nothing is there. A shadow of their tortured soul is revealed, and then introduce a soothsayer who can help them locate the tortured soul to free their companion's madness. An adventure leads them into the Planes of existence fraught with danger. The sacrifice to save their fractured soul must be the cost of another life - which they can only discover at their journey's end.

score -1 · Answer 8 · 2018-11-06 15:00:55Z

Backup character is good, but have to be careful when deciding due to party needs of certain class or abilities. If the only healer dies and now you have a halfing fighter, O.o guess he could intimidate a merchant for a discount on health potions.

If they persist to play with the Ã¢Â€ÂœsameÃ¢Â€Â character, have them change the race or theme of character. DonÃ¢Â€Â™t allow them to literally erase the name and fill in a new one on the dead character sheet. Some players just like to play something no matter what.

My old group had a younger brother who was always a half-orc fighter, just because he didnÃ¢Â€Â™t want to RP but wanted to kill things.

Out of D&D, as a personal experience to choosing a single option when playing a game, in Overwatch, I only played Torbjorn! I love turrets and I only choose him because of it. I have tried other characters, but 90% of my gameplay is Torbjorn.

Is the remark about overwatch & turrets actually relevant to answering the question? If so, I'd say something tying it in is missing. If it's not relevant I suggest removing it. (Feel free to flag this comment as No Longer Needed whenever you've actioned this suggestion either way.) — 20 mins ago

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How can I discourage a player from making the same character if their current one dies?

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Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

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Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

Simply forbid it

Pulse Check

Playstyle is important including your own

Simply forbid it

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Playstyle is important including your own

Simply forbid it

Pulse Check

Playstyle is important including your own

Simply forbid it

Pulse Check

Playstyle is important including your own

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How can I discourage a player from making the same character if their current one dies?

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Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

Simply forbid it

Pulse Check

Playstyle is important including your own

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Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

Ask players to think of backup characters ahead of time

Simply forbid it

Pulse Check

Playstyle is important including your own

Simply forbid it

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Playstyle is important including your own

Simply forbid it

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Playstyle is important including your own

Simply forbid it

Pulse Check

Playstyle is important including your own

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What does second last employer means? [closed]

List of Gilmore Girls characters

One-line joke

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