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Where should 'often' be placed in a negative sentence?
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They often don't know how to react to compliments.
or
They don't often know how to react to compliments.
Which sentence is correct?
grammar grammaticality grammatical-structure
asked 2 hours ago
Deepanshi
62
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
They often don't know how to react to compliments.
or
They don't often know how to react to compliments.
Which sentence is correct?
grammar grammaticality grammatical-structure
asked 2 hours ago
Deepanshi
62
New contributor
Deepanshi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
It's not often that you place "often" in a negative sentence.
– Hot Licks
2 hours ago
1
Both are fine in the eyes of this descriptivist.
– Lumberjack
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
They often don't know how to react to compliments.
or
They don't often know how to react to compliments.
Which sentence is correct?
grammar grammaticality grammatical-structure
asked 2 hours ago
Deepanshi
62
New contributor
Deepanshi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
They often don't know how to react to compliments.
or
They don't often know how to react to compliments.
Which sentence is correct?
grammar grammaticality grammatical-structure
grammar grammaticality grammatical-structure
asked 2 hours ago
Deepanshi
62
New contributor
Deepanshi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 hours ago
Deepanshi
62
New contributor
Deepanshi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 2 hours ago
asked 2 hours ago
Deepanshi
62
New contributor
Deepanshi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 hours ago
Deepanshi
62
asked 2 hours ago
Deepanshi
62
62
New contributor
Deepanshi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Deepanshi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Deepanshi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
It's not often that you place "often" in a negative sentence.
– Hot Licks
2 hours ago
1
Both are fine in the eyes of this descriptivist.
– Lumberjack
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
It's not often that you place "often" in a negative sentence.
– Hot Licks
2 hours ago
1
Both are fine in the eyes of this descriptivist.
– Lumberjack
1 hour ago
It's not often that you place "often" in a negative sentence.
– Hot Licks
2 hours ago
It's not often that you place "often" in a negative sentence.
– Hot Licks
2 hours ago
1
1
Both are fine in the eyes of this descriptivist.
– Lumberjack
1 hour ago
Both are fine in the eyes of this descriptivist.
– Lumberjack
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
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oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
It's often the case that often implies more than an insignificant number of occasions, but less often than the much stronger usually (which invariably means more than half the time).
Since by default, often modifies the immediately-following element, this leads to a difference in meaning between OP's two examples. Taking the same construction and applying it to a simplified statement you just made about your wireless printer, for example..
1: It often doesn't work
2: It doesn't often work
Now let's suppose that after I heard you make one of those statements, I was invited to place a bet at 50-50 odds on whether the printer will work the next time it's used. You can be quite certain I'd bet on Will work after #1, but I'd bet on Won't work after #2. Either way, if I didn't win my bet, I might well accuse you of deliberately misusing language to mislead me into making a bad bet.
Any native speaker would interpret #1 as meaning that although there are some (annoyingly frequent) occasions when it doesn't work, usually (more often than not) it does work.
On the other hand, #2 would be interpreted as meaning that more often than not it doesn't work.
I have to admit that distinction isn't so clear-cut for me with...
3: It doesn't work often
...which I'd normally interpret as being closer to #2 than #1 above. But because it's inherently less idiomatic, I might well struggle to understand exactly what was intended.
answered 1 hour ago
FumbleFingers
118k29237414
1
Extraordinarily well put.
– WS2
13 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
It's often the case that often implies more than an insignificant number of occasions, but less often than the much stronger usually (which invariably means more than half the time).
Since by default, often modifies the immediately-following element, this leads to a difference in meaning between OP's two examples. Taking the same construction and applying it to a simplified statement you just made about your wireless printer, for example..
1: It often doesn't work
2: It doesn't often work
Now let's suppose that after I heard you make one of those statements, I was invited to place a bet at 50-50 odds on whether the printer will work the next time it's used. You can be quite certain I'd bet on Will work after #1, but I'd bet on Won't work after #2. Either way, if I didn't win my bet, I might well accuse you of deliberately misusing language to mislead me into making a bad bet.
Any native speaker would interpret #1 as meaning that although there are some (annoyingly frequent) occasions when it doesn't work, usually (more often than not) it does work.
On the other hand, #2 would be interpreted as meaning that more often than not it doesn't work.
I have to admit that distinction isn't so clear-cut for me with...
3: It doesn't work often
...which I'd normally interpret as being closer to #2 than #1 above. But because it's inherently less idiomatic, I might well struggle to understand exactly what was intended.
answered 1 hour ago
FumbleFingers
118k29237414
1
Extraordinarily well put.
– WS2
13 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
It's often the case that often implies more than an insignificant number of occasions, but less often than the much stronger usually (which invariably means more than half the time).
Since by default, often modifies the immediately-following element, this leads to a difference in meaning between OP's two examples. Taking the same construction and applying it to a simplified statement you just made about your wireless printer, for example..
1: It often doesn't work
2: It doesn't often work
Now let's suppose that after I heard you make one of those statements, I was invited to place a bet at 50-50 odds on whether the printer will work the next time it's used. You can be quite certain I'd bet on Will work after #1, but I'd bet on Won't work after #2. Either way, if I didn't win my bet, I might well accuse you of deliberately misusing language to mislead me into making a bad bet.
Any native speaker would interpret #1 as meaning that although there are some (annoyingly frequent) occasions when it doesn't work, usually (more often than not) it does work.
On the other hand, #2 would be interpreted as meaning that more often than not it doesn't work.
I have to admit that distinction isn't so clear-cut for me with...
3: It doesn't work often
...which I'd normally interpret as being closer to #2 than #1 above. But because it's inherently less idiomatic, I might well struggle to understand exactly what was intended.
answered 1 hour ago
FumbleFingers
118k29237414
1
Extraordinarily well put.
– WS2
13 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
It's often the case that often implies more than an insignificant number of occasions, but less often than the much stronger usually (which invariably means more than half the time).
Since by default, often modifies the immediately-following element, this leads to a difference in meaning between OP's two examples. Taking the same construction and applying it to a simplified statement you just made about your wireless printer, for example..
1: It often doesn't work
2: It doesn't often work
Now let's suppose that after I heard you make one of those statements, I was invited to place a bet at 50-50 odds on whether the printer will work the next time it's used. You can be quite certain I'd bet on Will work after #1, but I'd bet on Won't work after #2. Either way, if I didn't win my bet, I might well accuse you of deliberately misusing language to mislead me into making a bad bet.
Any native speaker would interpret #1 as meaning that although there are some (annoyingly frequent) occasions when it doesn't work, usually (more often than not) it does work.
On the other hand, #2 would be interpreted as meaning that more often than not it doesn't work.
I have to admit that distinction isn't so clear-cut for me with...
3: It doesn't work often
...which I'd normally interpret as being closer to #2 than #1 above. But because it's inherently less idiomatic, I might well struggle to understand exactly what was intended.
answered 1 hour ago
FumbleFingers
118k29237414
It's often the case that often implies more than an insignificant number of occasions, but less often than the much stronger usually (which invariably means more than half the time).
Since by default, often modifies the immediately-following element, this leads to a difference in meaning between OP's two examples. Taking the same construction and applying it to a simplified statement you just made about your wireless printer, for example..
1: It often doesn't work
2: It doesn't often work
Now let's suppose that after I heard you make one of those statements, I was invited to place a bet at 50-50 odds on whether the printer will work the next time it's used. You can be quite certain I'd bet on Will work after #1, but I'd bet on Won't work after #2. Either way, if I didn't win my bet, I might well accuse you of deliberately misusing language to mislead me into making a bad bet.
Any native speaker would interpret #1 as meaning that although there are some (annoyingly frequent) occasions when it doesn't work, usually (more often than not) it does work.
On the other hand, #2 would be interpreted as meaning that more often than not it doesn't work.
I have to admit that distinction isn't so clear-cut for me with...
3: It doesn't work often
...which I'd normally interpret as being closer to #2 than #1 above. But because it's inherently less idiomatic, I might well struggle to understand exactly what was intended.
answered 1 hour ago
FumbleFingers
118k29237414
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
FumbleFingers
118k29237414
answered 1 hour ago
FumbleFingers
118k29237414
answered 1 hour ago
FumbleFingers
118k29237414
118k29237414
1
Extraordinarily well put.
– WS2
13 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1
Extraordinarily well put.
– WS2
13 mins ago
1
1
Extraordinarily well put.
– WS2
13 mins ago
Extraordinarily well put.
– WS2
13 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Deepanshi is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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It's not often that you place "often" in a negative sentence.
– Hot Licks
2 hours ago
1
Both are fine in the eyes of this descriptivist.
– Lumberjack
1 hour ago