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Rough estimation of power consumption in an electronic design
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1
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I want to get a rough estimation of the power that my design is going to need. Is it sane to calculate the power of every IC component based on values in DC Characteristics in the corresponding datasheet, add them together and get a rough yet reasonable value or will I be totally off?
EDIT:
DC Characteristics have 3 columns minimum, typical and max. I will use various combinations based on the use of every IC in a given state. I thought it was clear in the original question that I will use values (which include min, typ, max) from DC Characteristics table, not the max values per se, but apparently it is not.
power integrated-circuit
asked 3 hours ago
Manos
497
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I want to get a rough estimation of the power that my design is going to need. Is it sane to calculate the power of every IC component based on values in DC Characteristics in the corresponding datasheet, add them together and get a rough yet reasonable value or will I be totally off?
EDIT:
DC Characteristics have 3 columns minimum, typical and max. I will use various combinations based on the use of every IC in a given state. I thought it was clear in the original question that I will use values (which include min, typ, max) from DC Characteristics table, not the max values per se, but apparently it is not.
power integrated-circuit
asked 3 hours ago
Manos
497
2
How should we know? We don't know what kind of ICs you use, and how you use them. If you, for example, only use LED drivers near their maximum power, then sure, that's going to be close. If you, for example, have a microcontroller and let it sleep for 99.5% of time, no, this is going to be completely wrong. Obviously, maximum ratings are maximum ratings and nothing else.
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
1
The absolute maximum ratings may be much different than the typical power consumption of a component; they should not be used to get an estimate of a design's total power. You need to do more work than that.
– Elliot Alderson
3 hours ago
1
@Elliot Alderson You are right, it was my mistake, I confused DC Characteristics table (which includes min, typ, max) with the Absolute Maximum Ratings table. Down votes totally justified.
– Manos
2 hours ago
@Marcus Müller I did make a mistake in the original question, I updated and clarified. The reason I am not stating the IC components is because I wonder if this can be applied as a general practice, not only in this particular situation.
– Manos
2 hours ago
Also keep in mind that current will vary with operating temperature. There are a lot of variables here - this question is likely un-answerable.
– rdtsc
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I want to get a rough estimation of the power that my design is going to need. Is it sane to calculate the power of every IC component based on values in DC Characteristics in the corresponding datasheet, add them together and get a rough yet reasonable value or will I be totally off?
EDIT:
DC Characteristics have 3 columns minimum, typical and max. I will use various combinations based on the use of every IC in a given state. I thought it was clear in the original question that I will use values (which include min, typ, max) from DC Characteristics table, not the max values per se, but apparently it is not.
power integrated-circuit
asked 3 hours ago
Manos
497
I want to get a rough estimation of the power that my design is going to need. Is it sane to calculate the power of every IC component based on values in DC Characteristics in the corresponding datasheet, add them together and get a rough yet reasonable value or will I be totally off?
EDIT:
DC Characteristics have 3 columns minimum, typical and max. I will use various combinations based on the use of every IC in a given state. I thought it was clear in the original question that I will use values (which include min, typ, max) from DC Characteristics table, not the max values per se, but apparently it is not.
power integrated-circuit
power integrated-circuit
asked 3 hours ago
Manos
497
asked 3 hours ago
Manos
497
edited 2 hours ago
asked 3 hours ago
Manos
497
asked 3 hours ago
Manos
497
asked 3 hours ago
Manos
497
497
2
How should we know? We don't know what kind of ICs you use, and how you use them. If you, for example, only use LED drivers near their maximum power, then sure, that's going to be close. If you, for example, have a microcontroller and let it sleep for 99.5% of time, no, this is going to be completely wrong. Obviously, maximum ratings are maximum ratings and nothing else.
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
1
The absolute maximum ratings may be much different than the typical power consumption of a component; they should not be used to get an estimate of a design's total power. You need to do more work than that.
– Elliot Alderson
3 hours ago
1
@Elliot Alderson You are right, it was my mistake, I confused DC Characteristics table (which includes min, typ, max) with the Absolute Maximum Ratings table. Down votes totally justified.
– Manos
2 hours ago
@Marcus Müller I did make a mistake in the original question, I updated and clarified. The reason I am not stating the IC components is because I wonder if this can be applied as a general practice, not only in this particular situation.
– Manos
2 hours ago
Also keep in mind that current will vary with operating temperature. There are a lot of variables here - this question is likely un-answerable.
– rdtsc
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
2
How should we know? We don't know what kind of ICs you use, and how you use them. If you, for example, only use LED drivers near their maximum power, then sure, that's going to be close. If you, for example, have a microcontroller and let it sleep for 99.5% of time, no, this is going to be completely wrong. Obviously, maximum ratings are maximum ratings and nothing else.
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
1
The absolute maximum ratings may be much different than the typical power consumption of a component; they should not be used to get an estimate of a design's total power. You need to do more work than that.
– Elliot Alderson
3 hours ago
1
@Elliot Alderson You are right, it was my mistake, I confused DC Characteristics table (which includes min, typ, max) with the Absolute Maximum Ratings table. Down votes totally justified.
– Manos
2 hours ago
@Marcus Müller I did make a mistake in the original question, I updated and clarified. The reason I am not stating the IC components is because I wonder if this can be applied as a general practice, not only in this particular situation.
– Manos
2 hours ago
Also keep in mind that current will vary with operating temperature. There are a lot of variables here - this question is likely un-answerable.
– rdtsc
1 hour ago
2
2
How should we know? We don't know what kind of ICs you use, and how you use them. If you, for example, only use LED drivers near their maximum power, then sure, that's going to be close. If you, for example, have a microcontroller and let it sleep for 99.5% of time, no, this is going to be completely wrong. Obviously, maximum ratings are maximum ratings and nothing else.
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
How should we know? We don't know what kind of ICs you use, and how you use them. If you, for example, only use LED drivers near their maximum power, then sure, that's going to be close. If you, for example, have a microcontroller and let it sleep for 99.5% of time, no, this is going to be completely wrong. Obviously, maximum ratings are maximum ratings and nothing else.
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
1
1
The absolute maximum ratings may be much different than the typical power consumption of a component; they should not be used to get an estimate of a design's total power. You need to do more work than that.
– Elliot Alderson
3 hours ago
The absolute maximum ratings may be much different than the typical power consumption of a component; they should not be used to get an estimate of a design's total power. You need to do more work than that.
– Elliot Alderson
3 hours ago
1
1
@Elliot Alderson You are right, it was my mistake, I confused DC Characteristics table (which includes min, typ, max) with the Absolute Maximum Ratings table. Down votes totally justified.
– Manos
2 hours ago
@Elliot Alderson You are right, it was my mistake, I confused DC Characteristics table (which includes min, typ, max) with the Absolute Maximum Ratings table. Down votes totally justified.
– Manos
2 hours ago
@Marcus Müller I did make a mistake in the original question, I updated and clarified. The reason I am not stating the IC components is because I wonder if this can be applied as a general practice, not only in this particular situation.
– Manos
2 hours ago
@Marcus Müller I did make a mistake in the original question, I updated and clarified. The reason I am not stating the IC components is because I wonder if this can be applied as a general practice, not only in this particular situation.
– Manos
2 hours ago
Also keep in mind that current will vary with operating temperature. There are a lot of variables here - this question is likely un-answerable.
– rdtsc
1 hour ago
Also keep in mind that current will vary with operating temperature. There are a lot of variables here - this question is likely un-answerable.
– rdtsc
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Adding the maxima (from the normal operations sections) of your ICs will yield a (very conservative) upper bound on your current consumption.
To get at a more realistic value you can either measure, or figure out how the actual values vary with the circumstances. Power voltage, temperature, operating mode, and clock frequency often have a big impact.
Start with the list of the power consumptions of all your componets, sorted from high to low. Concentrate of the top entries, you can probably ignore the tail of the list. The 'attack' on the individual components requires experinece, skill and insight, and depends a lot on the type of component.
In a comment you mention the AT25SF041. Its current depends on its mode of operation (power-down, stand-by, active). The conservative estimate is that it is always active (max from the table: 16 mA). If this puts it on top of the list, you need to get more info about how it is used.
If you have a lot of components that attribute roughly the same current, and you can live with < 100% working products, you could use the typical values instead of the max ones, or do a distribution-based addition (assuming some distribution..).
Another interesting aspect is whether you need the average of the peak power consumption. A good design probably needs to take both into account.
PS thumbs-up for using the normal-operation values, be be aware that we see too many questions (and sadly even answers!) here that use the "absolute maxiuma", which are almost never relevant.
answered 2 hours ago
Wouter van Ooijen
43.6k150114
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
No, you can't just take current and voltage values from the dc characteristics table and multiply them. The problem with this approach is that a typical device cannot meet those maximum current and voltage ratings at the same time. Your calculations will be grossly incorrect.
Consider a 2N3904 transistor. The maximum $V_CE$ is 40V, the maximum $I_C$ is 200mA. Multiplying those gives a power dissipation of 8W, which an order of magnitude greater than what this transistor can actually dissipate in air at room temperature.
answered 2 hours ago
Elliot Alderson
4,0561818
I agree with what you said for this specific example. But I will provide you with another, just to elaborate on my thinking. One of the components I am working with is AT25SF041. On p.33, table 12.3 it lists various currents according to operation. Since I know my input voltage (3.3V) and when I perform a specific operation, I assume I can calculate the power at that state.
– Manos
2 hours ago
1
But what assumptions does this table make about the output pins? If you have output pins then they will be consuming power and I'm pretty sure the table you cite doesn't try to guess what they are doing.
– Elliot Alderson
1 hour ago
1
The aforementioned IC is a flash memory that communicates the data via SPI interface. So, the mentioned currents for when performing a specific operation under specific circumstances (input voltage, operating frequency) I am pretty sure that take into account the output pins since in this IC they do a very specific operation - implement the SPI. If another IC has a general purpose output pins, then yes, I agree with you, you have to take account what these pins drive.
– Manos
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Adding the maxima (from the normal operations sections) of your ICs will yield a (very conservative) upper bound on your current consumption.
To get at a more realistic value you can either measure, or figure out how the actual values vary with the circumstances. Power voltage, temperature, operating mode, and clock frequency often have a big impact.
Start with the list of the power consumptions of all your componets, sorted from high to low. Concentrate of the top entries, you can probably ignore the tail of the list. The 'attack' on the individual components requires experinece, skill and insight, and depends a lot on the type of component.
In a comment you mention the AT25SF041. Its current depends on its mode of operation (power-down, stand-by, active). The conservative estimate is that it is always active (max from the table: 16 mA). If this puts it on top of the list, you need to get more info about how it is used.
If you have a lot of components that attribute roughly the same current, and you can live with < 100% working products, you could use the typical values instead of the max ones, or do a distribution-based addition (assuming some distribution..).
Another interesting aspect is whether you need the average of the peak power consumption. A good design probably needs to take both into account.
PS thumbs-up for using the normal-operation values, be be aware that we see too many questions (and sadly even answers!) here that use the "absolute maxiuma", which are almost never relevant.
answered 2 hours ago
Wouter van Ooijen
43.6k150114
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Adding the maxima (from the normal operations sections) of your ICs will yield a (very conservative) upper bound on your current consumption.
To get at a more realistic value you can either measure, or figure out how the actual values vary with the circumstances. Power voltage, temperature, operating mode, and clock frequency often have a big impact.
Start with the list of the power consumptions of all your componets, sorted from high to low. Concentrate of the top entries, you can probably ignore the tail of the list. The 'attack' on the individual components requires experinece, skill and insight, and depends a lot on the type of component.
In a comment you mention the AT25SF041. Its current depends on its mode of operation (power-down, stand-by, active). The conservative estimate is that it is always active (max from the table: 16 mA). If this puts it on top of the list, you need to get more info about how it is used.
If you have a lot of components that attribute roughly the same current, and you can live with < 100% working products, you could use the typical values instead of the max ones, or do a distribution-based addition (assuming some distribution..).
Another interesting aspect is whether you need the average of the peak power consumption. A good design probably needs to take both into account.
PS thumbs-up for using the normal-operation values, be be aware that we see too many questions (and sadly even answers!) here that use the "absolute maxiuma", which are almost never relevant.
answered 2 hours ago
Wouter van Ooijen
43.6k150114
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Adding the maxima (from the normal operations sections) of your ICs will yield a (very conservative) upper bound on your current consumption.
To get at a more realistic value you can either measure, or figure out how the actual values vary with the circumstances. Power voltage, temperature, operating mode, and clock frequency often have a big impact.
Start with the list of the power consumptions of all your componets, sorted from high to low. Concentrate of the top entries, you can probably ignore the tail of the list. The 'attack' on the individual components requires experinece, skill and insight, and depends a lot on the type of component.
In a comment you mention the AT25SF041. Its current depends on its mode of operation (power-down, stand-by, active). The conservative estimate is that it is always active (max from the table: 16 mA). If this puts it on top of the list, you need to get more info about how it is used.
If you have a lot of components that attribute roughly the same current, and you can live with < 100% working products, you could use the typical values instead of the max ones, or do a distribution-based addition (assuming some distribution..).
Another interesting aspect is whether you need the average of the peak power consumption. A good design probably needs to take both into account.
PS thumbs-up for using the normal-operation values, be be aware that we see too many questions (and sadly even answers!) here that use the "absolute maxiuma", which are almost never relevant.
answered 2 hours ago
Wouter van Ooijen
43.6k150114
Adding the maxima (from the normal operations sections) of your ICs will yield a (very conservative) upper bound on your current consumption.
To get at a more realistic value you can either measure, or figure out how the actual values vary with the circumstances. Power voltage, temperature, operating mode, and clock frequency often have a big impact.
Start with the list of the power consumptions of all your componets, sorted from high to low. Concentrate of the top entries, you can probably ignore the tail of the list. The 'attack' on the individual components requires experinece, skill and insight, and depends a lot on the type of component.
In a comment you mention the AT25SF041. Its current depends on its mode of operation (power-down, stand-by, active). The conservative estimate is that it is always active (max from the table: 16 mA). If this puts it on top of the list, you need to get more info about how it is used.
If you have a lot of components that attribute roughly the same current, and you can live with < 100% working products, you could use the typical values instead of the max ones, or do a distribution-based addition (assuming some distribution..).
Another interesting aspect is whether you need the average of the peak power consumption. A good design probably needs to take both into account.
PS thumbs-up for using the normal-operation values, be be aware that we see too many questions (and sadly even answers!) here that use the "absolute maxiuma", which are almost never relevant.
answered 2 hours ago
Wouter van Ooijen
43.6k150114
edited 1 hour ago
answered 2 hours ago
Wouter van Ooijen
43.6k150114
answered 2 hours ago
Wouter van Ooijen
43.6k150114
answered 2 hours ago
Wouter van Ooijen
43.6k150114
43.6k150114
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
No, you can't just take current and voltage values from the dc characteristics table and multiply them. The problem with this approach is that a typical device cannot meet those maximum current and voltage ratings at the same time. Your calculations will be grossly incorrect.
Consider a 2N3904 transistor. The maximum $V_CE$ is 40V, the maximum $I_C$ is 200mA. Multiplying those gives a power dissipation of 8W, which an order of magnitude greater than what this transistor can actually dissipate in air at room temperature.
answered 2 hours ago
Elliot Alderson
4,0561818
I agree with what you said for this specific example. But I will provide you with another, just to elaborate on my thinking. One of the components I am working with is AT25SF041. On p.33, table 12.3 it lists various currents according to operation. Since I know my input voltage (3.3V) and when I perform a specific operation, I assume I can calculate the power at that state.
– Manos
2 hours ago
1
But what assumptions does this table make about the output pins? If you have output pins then they will be consuming power and I'm pretty sure the table you cite doesn't try to guess what they are doing.
– Elliot Alderson
1 hour ago
1
The aforementioned IC is a flash memory that communicates the data via SPI interface. So, the mentioned currents for when performing a specific operation under specific circumstances (input voltage, operating frequency) I am pretty sure that take into account the output pins since in this IC they do a very specific operation - implement the SPI. If another IC has a general purpose output pins, then yes, I agree with you, you have to take account what these pins drive.
– Manos
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
No, you can't just take current and voltage values from the dc characteristics table and multiply them. The problem with this approach is that a typical device cannot meet those maximum current and voltage ratings at the same time. Your calculations will be grossly incorrect.
Consider a 2N3904 transistor. The maximum $V_CE$ is 40V, the maximum $I_C$ is 200mA. Multiplying those gives a power dissipation of 8W, which an order of magnitude greater than what this transistor can actually dissipate in air at room temperature.
answered 2 hours ago
Elliot Alderson
4,0561818
I agree with what you said for this specific example. But I will provide you with another, just to elaborate on my thinking. One of the components I am working with is AT25SF041. On p.33, table 12.3 it lists various currents according to operation. Since I know my input voltage (3.3V) and when I perform a specific operation, I assume I can calculate the power at that state.
– Manos
2 hours ago
1
But what assumptions does this table make about the output pins? If you have output pins then they will be consuming power and I'm pretty sure the table you cite doesn't try to guess what they are doing.
– Elliot Alderson
1 hour ago
1
The aforementioned IC is a flash memory that communicates the data via SPI interface. So, the mentioned currents for when performing a specific operation under specific circumstances (input voltage, operating frequency) I am pretty sure that take into account the output pins since in this IC they do a very specific operation - implement the SPI. If another IC has a general purpose output pins, then yes, I agree with you, you have to take account what these pins drive.
– Manos
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
No, you can't just take current and voltage values from the dc characteristics table and multiply them. The problem with this approach is that a typical device cannot meet those maximum current and voltage ratings at the same time. Your calculations will be grossly incorrect.
Consider a 2N3904 transistor. The maximum $V_CE$ is 40V, the maximum $I_C$ is 200mA. Multiplying those gives a power dissipation of 8W, which an order of magnitude greater than what this transistor can actually dissipate in air at room temperature.
answered 2 hours ago
Elliot Alderson
4,0561818
No, you can't just take current and voltage values from the dc characteristics table and multiply them. The problem with this approach is that a typical device cannot meet those maximum current and voltage ratings at the same time. Your calculations will be grossly incorrect.
Consider a 2N3904 transistor. The maximum $V_CE$ is 40V, the maximum $I_C$ is 200mA. Multiplying those gives a power dissipation of 8W, which an order of magnitude greater than what this transistor can actually dissipate in air at room temperature.
answered 2 hours ago
Elliot Alderson
4,0561818
answered 2 hours ago
Elliot Alderson
4,0561818
answered 2 hours ago
Elliot Alderson
4,0561818
answered 2 hours ago
Elliot Alderson
4,0561818
4,0561818
I agree with what you said for this specific example. But I will provide you with another, just to elaborate on my thinking. One of the components I am working with is AT25SF041. On p.33, table 12.3 it lists various currents according to operation. Since I know my input voltage (3.3V) and when I perform a specific operation, I assume I can calculate the power at that state.
– Manos
2 hours ago
1
But what assumptions does this table make about the output pins? If you have output pins then they will be consuming power and I'm pretty sure the table you cite doesn't try to guess what they are doing.
– Elliot Alderson
1 hour ago
1
The aforementioned IC is a flash memory that communicates the data via SPI interface. So, the mentioned currents for when performing a specific operation under specific circumstances (input voltage, operating frequency) I am pretty sure that take into account the output pins since in this IC they do a very specific operation - implement the SPI. If another IC has a general purpose output pins, then yes, I agree with you, you have to take account what these pins drive.
– Manos
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
I agree with what you said for this specific example. But I will provide you with another, just to elaborate on my thinking. One of the components I am working with is AT25SF041. On p.33, table 12.3 it lists various currents according to operation. Since I know my input voltage (3.3V) and when I perform a specific operation, I assume I can calculate the power at that state.
– Manos
2 hours ago
1
But what assumptions does this table make about the output pins? If you have output pins then they will be consuming power and I'm pretty sure the table you cite doesn't try to guess what they are doing.
– Elliot Alderson
1 hour ago
1
The aforementioned IC is a flash memory that communicates the data via SPI interface. So, the mentioned currents for when performing a specific operation under specific circumstances (input voltage, operating frequency) I am pretty sure that take into account the output pins since in this IC they do a very specific operation - implement the SPI. If another IC has a general purpose output pins, then yes, I agree with you, you have to take account what these pins drive.
– Manos
1 hour ago
I agree with what you said for this specific example. But I will provide you with another, just to elaborate on my thinking. One of the components I am working with is AT25SF041. On p.33, table 12.3 it lists various currents according to operation. Since I know my input voltage (3.3V) and when I perform a specific operation, I assume I can calculate the power at that state.
– Manos
2 hours ago
I agree with what you said for this specific example. But I will provide you with another, just to elaborate on my thinking. One of the components I am working with is AT25SF041. On p.33, table 12.3 it lists various currents according to operation. Since I know my input voltage (3.3V) and when I perform a specific operation, I assume I can calculate the power at that state.
– Manos
2 hours ago
1
1
But what assumptions does this table make about the output pins? If you have output pins then they will be consuming power and I'm pretty sure the table you cite doesn't try to guess what they are doing.
– Elliot Alderson
1 hour ago
But what assumptions does this table make about the output pins? If you have output pins then they will be consuming power and I'm pretty sure the table you cite doesn't try to guess what they are doing.
– Elliot Alderson
1 hour ago
1
1
The aforementioned IC is a flash memory that communicates the data via SPI interface. So, the mentioned currents for when performing a specific operation under specific circumstances (input voltage, operating frequency) I am pretty sure that take into account the output pins since in this IC they do a very specific operation - implement the SPI. If another IC has a general purpose output pins, then yes, I agree with you, you have to take account what these pins drive.
– Manos
1 hour ago
The aforementioned IC is a flash memory that communicates the data via SPI interface. So, the mentioned currents for when performing a specific operation under specific circumstances (input voltage, operating frequency) I am pretty sure that take into account the output pins since in this IC they do a very specific operation - implement the SPI. If another IC has a general purpose output pins, then yes, I agree with you, you have to take account what these pins drive.
– Manos
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
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2
How should we know? We don't know what kind of ICs you use, and how you use them. If you, for example, only use LED drivers near their maximum power, then sure, that's going to be close. If you, for example, have a microcontroller and let it sleep for 99.5% of time, no, this is going to be completely wrong. Obviously, maximum ratings are maximum ratings and nothing else.
– Marcus Müller
3 hours ago
1
The absolute maximum ratings may be much different than the typical power consumption of a component; they should not be used to get an estimate of a design's total power. You need to do more work than that.
– Elliot Alderson
3 hours ago
1
@Elliot Alderson You are right, it was my mistake, I confused DC Characteristics table (which includes min, typ, max) with the Absolute Maximum Ratings table. Down votes totally justified.
– Manos
2 hours ago
@Marcus Müller I did make a mistake in the original question, I updated and clarified. The reason I am not stating the IC components is because I wonder if this can be applied as a general practice, not only in this particular situation.
– Manos
2 hours ago
Also keep in mind that current will vary with operating temperature. There are a lot of variables here - this question is likely un-answerable.
– rdtsc
1 hour ago