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What are the rules for PC-PC seduction attempts?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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Last session we came to a very weird situation. Now, its outcome was meaningless and we argued friendly and politely, having fun and settling the matter with ease, but it's likely it will happen again under more important circumstances.
One of the players is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA (maxed out, half-elf and the DM allowed it to get 1 bonus point in exchange for a pitiful 6 STR) who is well aware of his charming beauty and willing to use it without any kind of moral sense. Last time she tried to seduce my character.
I'm playing a male (kind of, but this is for an other post) paladin. He's not an "asexual" character, but he's very focused on his goals - he swore an oath of vengeance - and perceives such things like carnal pleasure as useless distractions.
When this little conflict escalated, the DM ruled that the seduction attempt deserved a die roll. Nobody, myself included, was against it, so my guess is that all of my party agrees that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances. That said, none of us has any idea how to make the roll, but that wasn't a problem since I decided to do what she was asking as it was perfectly in line with my character's behaviour.
What do the rules say about how to handle this situation?
What ability/attribute/whatever roll is required?
Do the rules say how long a seduction attempt should take and what situational bonuses (or negatives) to apply to it?
To what point do the rules allow your DM to "take control" of your character during this seduction check?
dnd-5e romance
edited 1 hour ago
Rubiksmoose
41.1k5204311
asked 12 hours ago
Andrea Bocco
212
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Andrea Bocco is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Last session we came to a very weird situation. Now, its outcome was meaningless and we argued friendly and politely, having fun and settling the matter with ease, but it's likely it will happen again under more important circumstances.
One of the players is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA (maxed out, half-elf and the DM allowed it to get 1 bonus point in exchange for a pitiful 6 STR) who is well aware of his charming beauty and willing to use it without any kind of moral sense. Last time she tried to seduce my character.
I'm playing a male (kind of, but this is for an other post) paladin. He's not an "asexual" character, but he's very focused on his goals - he swore an oath of vengeance - and perceives such things like carnal pleasure as useless distractions.
When this little conflict escalated, the DM ruled that the seduction attempt deserved a die roll. Nobody, myself included, was against it, so my guess is that all of my party agrees that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances. That said, none of us has any idea how to make the roll, but that wasn't a problem since I decided to do what she was asking as it was perfectly in line with my character's behaviour.
What do the rules say about how to handle this situation?
What ability/attribute/whatever roll is required?
Do the rules say how long a seduction attempt should take and what situational bonuses (or negatives) to apply to it?
To what point do the rules allow your DM to "take control" of your character during this seduction check?
dnd-5e romance
edited 1 hour ago
Rubiksmoose
41.1k5204311
asked 12 hours ago
Andrea Bocco
212
New contributor
Andrea Bocco is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Welcome to rpg.se! Have you taken the tour? Generally we prefer questions that can be backed up by evidence or experience. We also discourage asking multiple questions in a single post. If you can edit the question to be more focus on the problem you are trying to solve you may get it reopened. Thanks for asking and happy gaming!
– linksassin
10 hours ago
1
I've edited your question to ask about what the rules say about this situation since we don't handle questions which poll people about how they would handle something. Such questions do not have a best answer and are thus not a good fit for this site. But after the edit, it fits much better and may be able to be reopened.
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
1
RE: "One of the player[s] is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA… who is well aware of his charming beauty…." I totally respect the roles the players have taken on here, but the pronouns this question uses baffle me. Could the PC's names be used instead of the gendered pronouns?
– Hey I Can Chan
1 hour ago
Related, possibly duplicate What do I roll for seduction?
– enkryptor
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Last session we came to a very weird situation. Now, its outcome was meaningless and we argued friendly and politely, having fun and settling the matter with ease, but it's likely it will happen again under more important circumstances.
One of the players is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA (maxed out, half-elf and the DM allowed it to get 1 bonus point in exchange for a pitiful 6 STR) who is well aware of his charming beauty and willing to use it without any kind of moral sense. Last time she tried to seduce my character.
I'm playing a male (kind of, but this is for an other post) paladin. He's not an "asexual" character, but he's very focused on his goals - he swore an oath of vengeance - and perceives such things like carnal pleasure as useless distractions.
When this little conflict escalated, the DM ruled that the seduction attempt deserved a die roll. Nobody, myself included, was against it, so my guess is that all of my party agrees that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances. That said, none of us has any idea how to make the roll, but that wasn't a problem since I decided to do what she was asking as it was perfectly in line with my character's behaviour.
What do the rules say about how to handle this situation?
What ability/attribute/whatever roll is required?
Do the rules say how long a seduction attempt should take and what situational bonuses (or negatives) to apply to it?
To what point do the rules allow your DM to "take control" of your character during this seduction check?
dnd-5e romance
edited 1 hour ago
Rubiksmoose
41.1k5204311
asked 12 hours ago
Andrea Bocco
212
New contributor
Andrea Bocco is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Last session we came to a very weird situation. Now, its outcome was meaningless and we argued friendly and politely, having fun and settling the matter with ease, but it's likely it will happen again under more important circumstances.
One of the players is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA (maxed out, half-elf and the DM allowed it to get 1 bonus point in exchange for a pitiful 6 STR) who is well aware of his charming beauty and willing to use it without any kind of moral sense. Last time she tried to seduce my character.
I'm playing a male (kind of, but this is for an other post) paladin. He's not an "asexual" character, but he's very focused on his goals - he swore an oath of vengeance - and perceives such things like carnal pleasure as useless distractions.
When this little conflict escalated, the DM ruled that the seduction attempt deserved a die roll. Nobody, myself included, was against it, so my guess is that all of my party agrees that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances. That said, none of us has any idea how to make the roll, but that wasn't a problem since I decided to do what she was asking as it was perfectly in line with my character's behaviour.
What do the rules say about how to handle this situation?
What ability/attribute/whatever roll is required?
Do the rules say how long a seduction attempt should take and what situational bonuses (or negatives) to apply to it?
To what point do the rules allow your DM to "take control" of your character during this seduction check?
dnd-5e romance
dnd-5e romance
edited 1 hour ago
Rubiksmoose
41.1k5204311
asked 12 hours ago
Andrea Bocco
212
New contributor
Andrea Bocco is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 1 hour ago
Rubiksmoose
41.1k5204311
asked 12 hours ago
Andrea Bocco
212
New contributor
Andrea Bocco is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 1 hour ago
Rubiksmoose
41.1k5204311
edited 1 hour ago
Rubiksmoose
41.1k5204311
edited 1 hour ago
Rubiksmoose
41.1k5204311
41.1k5204311
asked 12 hours ago
Andrea Bocco
212
New contributor
Andrea Bocco is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 12 hours ago
Andrea Bocco
212
asked 12 hours ago
Andrea Bocco
212
212
New contributor
Andrea Bocco is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Andrea Bocco is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Andrea Bocco is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Welcome to rpg.se! Have you taken the tour? Generally we prefer questions that can be backed up by evidence or experience. We also discourage asking multiple questions in a single post. If you can edit the question to be more focus on the problem you are trying to solve you may get it reopened. Thanks for asking and happy gaming!
– linksassin
10 hours ago
1
I've edited your question to ask about what the rules say about this situation since we don't handle questions which poll people about how they would handle something. Such questions do not have a best answer and are thus not a good fit for this site. But after the edit, it fits much better and may be able to be reopened.
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
1
RE: "One of the player[s] is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA… who is well aware of his charming beauty…." I totally respect the roles the players have taken on here, but the pronouns this question uses baffle me. Could the PC's names be used instead of the gendered pronouns?
– Hey I Can Chan
1 hour ago
Related, possibly duplicate What do I roll for seduction?
– enkryptor
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
1
Welcome to rpg.se! Have you taken the tour? Generally we prefer questions that can be backed up by evidence or experience. We also discourage asking multiple questions in a single post. If you can edit the question to be more focus on the problem you are trying to solve you may get it reopened. Thanks for asking and happy gaming!
– linksassin
10 hours ago
1
I've edited your question to ask about what the rules say about this situation since we don't handle questions which poll people about how they would handle something. Such questions do not have a best answer and are thus not a good fit for this site. But after the edit, it fits much better and may be able to be reopened.
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
1
RE: "One of the player[s] is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA… who is well aware of his charming beauty…." I totally respect the roles the players have taken on here, but the pronouns this question uses baffle me. Could the PC's names be used instead of the gendered pronouns?
– Hey I Can Chan
1 hour ago
Related, possibly duplicate What do I roll for seduction?
– enkryptor
1 hour ago
1
1
Welcome to rpg.se! Have you taken the tour? Generally we prefer questions that can be backed up by evidence or experience. We also discourage asking multiple questions in a single post. If you can edit the question to be more focus on the problem you are trying to solve you may get it reopened. Thanks for asking and happy gaming!
– linksassin
10 hours ago
Welcome to rpg.se! Have you taken the tour? Generally we prefer questions that can be backed up by evidence or experience. We also discourage asking multiple questions in a single post. If you can edit the question to be more focus on the problem you are trying to solve you may get it reopened. Thanks for asking and happy gaming!
– linksassin
10 hours ago
1
1
I've edited your question to ask about what the rules say about this situation since we don't handle questions which poll people about how they would handle something. Such questions do not have a best answer and are thus not a good fit for this site. But after the edit, it fits much better and may be able to be reopened.
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
I've edited your question to ask about what the rules say about this situation since we don't handle questions which poll people about how they would handle something. Such questions do not have a best answer and are thus not a good fit for this site. But after the edit, it fits much better and may be able to be reopened.
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
1
1
RE: "One of the player[s] is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA… who is well aware of his charming beauty…." I totally respect the roles the players have taken on here, but the pronouns this question uses baffle me. Could the PC's names be used instead of the gendered pronouns?
– Hey I Can Chan
1 hour ago
RE: "One of the player[s] is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA… who is well aware of his charming beauty…." I totally respect the roles the players have taken on here, but the pronouns this question uses baffle me. Could the PC's names be used instead of the gendered pronouns?
– Hey I Can Chan
1 hour ago
Related, possibly duplicate What do I roll for seduction?
– enkryptor
1 hour ago
Related, possibly duplicate What do I roll for seduction?
– enkryptor
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
There are no official rules for this, and there never will be, because
Under absolutely no circumstances should rules be used for this ever
A PC–PC seduction attempt succeeds if, and exactly as much as, the target’s player says it does. No other answer is appropriate. No player should ever be forced “by the rules†into roleplaying a seduction, or even having a fade-to-black followed by them roleplaying a character who had been seduced. Your “guess [...] that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances†may well be true, but this is never going to be the right circumstance.
And yes, I have read your question and I understand you’re perfectly comfortable to use dice for this. I am arguing that this is, even in that circumstance, a mistake. It sets an extremely uncomfortable precedent, one that is not appropriate to a game of Dungeons & Dragons. There are game systems where this kind of thing is part-and-parcel with the system, exactly what players should expect when they agree to play. But D&D is emphatically not one of them. Which is, again, why rules for this will never see print.
Almost all groups I have played with have actually refused actual skill or ability checks for any PC–PC interaction. Rolling Diplomacy to persuade a fellow PC, rolling Intimidate to scare them, these are opportunities for one player to dictate another’s character. That is not, in my experience, considered appropriate even in quite banal circumstances. A seduction is anything but.
So roleplay it. Decide for yourself what you think is an appropriate reaction for your character, that you (and the table) are comfortable with, and do that. Don’t leave it up to the dice. Decide for yourself just how much Cha 18 matters to your character. This is not an appropriate place to insert randomness.
answered 1 hour ago
KRyan
212k26530917
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
This is a really important question because it lies at the heart of what makes a role-playing game a role-playing game and specifically makes D&D D&D. So I will give the answer first and then the explanation.
The player decides what their character does.
The rule is the fundamental rule of D&D to which all other rules are merely clarifications and guidance (my emphasis):
The DM describes the environment.
The players describe what they want to do.
The DM narrates the results of the adventurers’ actions.
Now it doesn't matter if the seduction attempt is from an NPC or another PC - The players describe what they want to do.
This is at the heart of player autonomy which is at the heart of any role-playing game - its your character so you decide what it thinks and does. Nobody else gets a look in: not another player, not a random person on the street, not the Secretary General of the United Nations and certainly not the Dungeon Master.
For the specific example, you decide if you want to say yes, if you want to say no or if you want the dice to decide and that decision is yours alone and sets no precedent.
The only exception to this is when magic is involved and even then magical effects only do what they say they do. For example, if the seduction attempt was accompanied by a Suggestion spell, the suggestion would need to be "reasonable" (which it may not be for all sorts of reasons e.g. sexual orientation, sexual preference, prior monogamous commitment, prior relationship, its just creepy for the player [which it certainly is] etc.) and, if it were, you "pursue the course of action ... described to the best of [your] ability."
I also note that "my guess is that all of my party agrees that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances" does not follow from "Nobody, myself included, was against it". Agreeing to a proposed course of action is vastly different from having a course of action imposed on you.
Your sub-questions
What do the rules say about how to handle this situation?
See above.
What ability/attribute/whatever roll is required?
Assuming you want this to be decided by rolling (and I personally wouldn't) there are no specific rules for this.
My initial though was that this might represent some type of contest, however, on being challenged on this I think the better mechanic would be to treat it as a simple Charisma (Persuasion) check against a DC set by the target player - after all, they are the ones who know if being seduced would be Easy, Medium, Hard or Nearly Impossible.
Do the rules say how long a seduction attempt should take and what situational bonuses (or negatives) to apply to it?
The normal advantage/disadvantage mechanic would seem to apply.
To what point do the rules allow your DM to "take control" of your character during this seduction check?
See above.
A final comment
Consenting adults around a gaming table (or anywhere else) can engage in whatever fantasies they wish, however, the idea that it is appropriate for one human being to make unwanted and unwelcome sexual advances to another is both unethical and, in many circumstances, illegal. Being good looking or charming is not an excuse.
answered 1 hour ago
Dale M
97.3k19250440
I was all set to upvote this, until I got to your suggestion of Charisma (Persuasion) vs. Charisma (Persuasion) or Wisdom (Insight). Not only do I think it’s a bad idea to suggest any rolls, but also, I don’t think it makes much sense for someone’s Persuasion or Insight to make much difference in seduction. Actually, no pair of rolls makes much sense—the scene should probably be an accumulation of several rolls, on individual points, rather than one roll for the whole thing. And better than opposed rolls would, I think, be just having the target player set DCs arbitrarily as they want.
– KRyan
48 mins ago
@KRyan I didn't give that a lot of thought as its not somewhere I would go - I'll think and revise.
– Dale M
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
There are no official rules for this, and there never will be, because
Under absolutely no circumstances should rules be used for this ever
A PC–PC seduction attempt succeeds if, and exactly as much as, the target’s player says it does. No other answer is appropriate. No player should ever be forced “by the rules†into roleplaying a seduction, or even having a fade-to-black followed by them roleplaying a character who had been seduced. Your “guess [...] that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances†may well be true, but this is never going to be the right circumstance.
And yes, I have read your question and I understand you’re perfectly comfortable to use dice for this. I am arguing that this is, even in that circumstance, a mistake. It sets an extremely uncomfortable precedent, one that is not appropriate to a game of Dungeons & Dragons. There are game systems where this kind of thing is part-and-parcel with the system, exactly what players should expect when they agree to play. But D&D is emphatically not one of them. Which is, again, why rules for this will never see print.
Almost all groups I have played with have actually refused actual skill or ability checks for any PC–PC interaction. Rolling Diplomacy to persuade a fellow PC, rolling Intimidate to scare them, these are opportunities for one player to dictate another’s character. That is not, in my experience, considered appropriate even in quite banal circumstances. A seduction is anything but.
So roleplay it. Decide for yourself what you think is an appropriate reaction for your character, that you (and the table) are comfortable with, and do that. Don’t leave it up to the dice. Decide for yourself just how much Cha 18 matters to your character. This is not an appropriate place to insert randomness.
answered 1 hour ago
KRyan
212k26530917
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
There are no official rules for this, and there never will be, because
Under absolutely no circumstances should rules be used for this ever
A PC–PC seduction attempt succeeds if, and exactly as much as, the target’s player says it does. No other answer is appropriate. No player should ever be forced “by the rules†into roleplaying a seduction, or even having a fade-to-black followed by them roleplaying a character who had been seduced. Your “guess [...] that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances†may well be true, but this is never going to be the right circumstance.
And yes, I have read your question and I understand you’re perfectly comfortable to use dice for this. I am arguing that this is, even in that circumstance, a mistake. It sets an extremely uncomfortable precedent, one that is not appropriate to a game of Dungeons & Dragons. There are game systems where this kind of thing is part-and-parcel with the system, exactly what players should expect when they agree to play. But D&D is emphatically not one of them. Which is, again, why rules for this will never see print.
Almost all groups I have played with have actually refused actual skill or ability checks for any PC–PC interaction. Rolling Diplomacy to persuade a fellow PC, rolling Intimidate to scare them, these are opportunities for one player to dictate another’s character. That is not, in my experience, considered appropriate even in quite banal circumstances. A seduction is anything but.
So roleplay it. Decide for yourself what you think is an appropriate reaction for your character, that you (and the table) are comfortable with, and do that. Don’t leave it up to the dice. Decide for yourself just how much Cha 18 matters to your character. This is not an appropriate place to insert randomness.
answered 1 hour ago
KRyan
212k26530917
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
There are no official rules for this, and there never will be, because
Under absolutely no circumstances should rules be used for this ever
A PC–PC seduction attempt succeeds if, and exactly as much as, the target’s player says it does. No other answer is appropriate. No player should ever be forced “by the rules†into roleplaying a seduction, or even having a fade-to-black followed by them roleplaying a character who had been seduced. Your “guess [...] that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances†may well be true, but this is never going to be the right circumstance.
And yes, I have read your question and I understand you’re perfectly comfortable to use dice for this. I am arguing that this is, even in that circumstance, a mistake. It sets an extremely uncomfortable precedent, one that is not appropriate to a game of Dungeons & Dragons. There are game systems where this kind of thing is part-and-parcel with the system, exactly what players should expect when they agree to play. But D&D is emphatically not one of them. Which is, again, why rules for this will never see print.
Almost all groups I have played with have actually refused actual skill or ability checks for any PC–PC interaction. Rolling Diplomacy to persuade a fellow PC, rolling Intimidate to scare them, these are opportunities for one player to dictate another’s character. That is not, in my experience, considered appropriate even in quite banal circumstances. A seduction is anything but.
So roleplay it. Decide for yourself what you think is an appropriate reaction for your character, that you (and the table) are comfortable with, and do that. Don’t leave it up to the dice. Decide for yourself just how much Cha 18 matters to your character. This is not an appropriate place to insert randomness.
answered 1 hour ago
KRyan
212k26530917
There are no official rules for this, and there never will be, because
Under absolutely no circumstances should rules be used for this ever
A PC–PC seduction attempt succeeds if, and exactly as much as, the target’s player says it does. No other answer is appropriate. No player should ever be forced “by the rules†into roleplaying a seduction, or even having a fade-to-black followed by them roleplaying a character who had been seduced. Your “guess [...] that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances†may well be true, but this is never going to be the right circumstance.
And yes, I have read your question and I understand you’re perfectly comfortable to use dice for this. I am arguing that this is, even in that circumstance, a mistake. It sets an extremely uncomfortable precedent, one that is not appropriate to a game of Dungeons & Dragons. There are game systems where this kind of thing is part-and-parcel with the system, exactly what players should expect when they agree to play. But D&D is emphatically not one of them. Which is, again, why rules for this will never see print.
Almost all groups I have played with have actually refused actual skill or ability checks for any PC–PC interaction. Rolling Diplomacy to persuade a fellow PC, rolling Intimidate to scare them, these are opportunities for one player to dictate another’s character. That is not, in my experience, considered appropriate even in quite banal circumstances. A seduction is anything but.
So roleplay it. Decide for yourself what you think is an appropriate reaction for your character, that you (and the table) are comfortable with, and do that. Don’t leave it up to the dice. Decide for yourself just how much Cha 18 matters to your character. This is not an appropriate place to insert randomness.
answered 1 hour ago
KRyan
212k26530917
answered 1 hour ago
KRyan
212k26530917
answered 1 hour ago
KRyan
212k26530917
answered 1 hour ago
KRyan
212k26530917
212k26530917
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
This is a really important question because it lies at the heart of what makes a role-playing game a role-playing game and specifically makes D&D D&D. So I will give the answer first and then the explanation.
The player decides what their character does.
The rule is the fundamental rule of D&D to which all other rules are merely clarifications and guidance (my emphasis):
The DM describes the environment.
The players describe what they want to do.
The DM narrates the results of the adventurers’ actions.
Now it doesn't matter if the seduction attempt is from an NPC or another PC - The players describe what they want to do.
This is at the heart of player autonomy which is at the heart of any role-playing game - its your character so you decide what it thinks and does. Nobody else gets a look in: not another player, not a random person on the street, not the Secretary General of the United Nations and certainly not the Dungeon Master.
For the specific example, you decide if you want to say yes, if you want to say no or if you want the dice to decide and that decision is yours alone and sets no precedent.
The only exception to this is when magic is involved and even then magical effects only do what they say they do. For example, if the seduction attempt was accompanied by a Suggestion spell, the suggestion would need to be "reasonable" (which it may not be for all sorts of reasons e.g. sexual orientation, sexual preference, prior monogamous commitment, prior relationship, its just creepy for the player [which it certainly is] etc.) and, if it were, you "pursue the course of action ... described to the best of [your] ability."
I also note that "my guess is that all of my party agrees that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances" does not follow from "Nobody, myself included, was against it". Agreeing to a proposed course of action is vastly different from having a course of action imposed on you.
Your sub-questions
What do the rules say about how to handle this situation?
See above.
What ability/attribute/whatever roll is required?
Assuming you want this to be decided by rolling (and I personally wouldn't) there are no specific rules for this.
My initial though was that this might represent some type of contest, however, on being challenged on this I think the better mechanic would be to treat it as a simple Charisma (Persuasion) check against a DC set by the target player - after all, they are the ones who know if being seduced would be Easy, Medium, Hard or Nearly Impossible.
Do the rules say how long a seduction attempt should take and what situational bonuses (or negatives) to apply to it?
The normal advantage/disadvantage mechanic would seem to apply.
To what point do the rules allow your DM to "take control" of your character during this seduction check?
See above.
A final comment
Consenting adults around a gaming table (or anywhere else) can engage in whatever fantasies they wish, however, the idea that it is appropriate for one human being to make unwanted and unwelcome sexual advances to another is both unethical and, in many circumstances, illegal. Being good looking or charming is not an excuse.
answered 1 hour ago
Dale M
97.3k19250440
I was all set to upvote this, until I got to your suggestion of Charisma (Persuasion) vs. Charisma (Persuasion) or Wisdom (Insight). Not only do I think it’s a bad idea to suggest any rolls, but also, I don’t think it makes much sense for someone’s Persuasion or Insight to make much difference in seduction. Actually, no pair of rolls makes much sense—the scene should probably be an accumulation of several rolls, on individual points, rather than one roll for the whole thing. And better than opposed rolls would, I think, be just having the target player set DCs arbitrarily as they want.
– KRyan
48 mins ago
@KRyan I didn't give that a lot of thought as its not somewhere I would go - I'll think and revise.
– Dale M
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
This is a really important question because it lies at the heart of what makes a role-playing game a role-playing game and specifically makes D&D D&D. So I will give the answer first and then the explanation.
The player decides what their character does.
The rule is the fundamental rule of D&D to which all other rules are merely clarifications and guidance (my emphasis):
The DM describes the environment.
The players describe what they want to do.
The DM narrates the results of the adventurers’ actions.
Now it doesn't matter if the seduction attempt is from an NPC or another PC - The players describe what they want to do.
This is at the heart of player autonomy which is at the heart of any role-playing game - its your character so you decide what it thinks and does. Nobody else gets a look in: not another player, not a random person on the street, not the Secretary General of the United Nations and certainly not the Dungeon Master.
For the specific example, you decide if you want to say yes, if you want to say no or if you want the dice to decide and that decision is yours alone and sets no precedent.
The only exception to this is when magic is involved and even then magical effects only do what they say they do. For example, if the seduction attempt was accompanied by a Suggestion spell, the suggestion would need to be "reasonable" (which it may not be for all sorts of reasons e.g. sexual orientation, sexual preference, prior monogamous commitment, prior relationship, its just creepy for the player [which it certainly is] etc.) and, if it were, you "pursue the course of action ... described to the best of [your] ability."
I also note that "my guess is that all of my party agrees that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances" does not follow from "Nobody, myself included, was against it". Agreeing to a proposed course of action is vastly different from having a course of action imposed on you.
Your sub-questions
What do the rules say about how to handle this situation?
See above.
What ability/attribute/whatever roll is required?
Assuming you want this to be decided by rolling (and I personally wouldn't) there are no specific rules for this.
My initial though was that this might represent some type of contest, however, on being challenged on this I think the better mechanic would be to treat it as a simple Charisma (Persuasion) check against a DC set by the target player - after all, they are the ones who know if being seduced would be Easy, Medium, Hard or Nearly Impossible.
Do the rules say how long a seduction attempt should take and what situational bonuses (or negatives) to apply to it?
The normal advantage/disadvantage mechanic would seem to apply.
To what point do the rules allow your DM to "take control" of your character during this seduction check?
See above.
A final comment
Consenting adults around a gaming table (or anywhere else) can engage in whatever fantasies they wish, however, the idea that it is appropriate for one human being to make unwanted and unwelcome sexual advances to another is both unethical and, in many circumstances, illegal. Being good looking or charming is not an excuse.
answered 1 hour ago
Dale M
97.3k19250440
I was all set to upvote this, until I got to your suggestion of Charisma (Persuasion) vs. Charisma (Persuasion) or Wisdom (Insight). Not only do I think it’s a bad idea to suggest any rolls, but also, I don’t think it makes much sense for someone’s Persuasion or Insight to make much difference in seduction. Actually, no pair of rolls makes much sense—the scene should probably be an accumulation of several rolls, on individual points, rather than one roll for the whole thing. And better than opposed rolls would, I think, be just having the target player set DCs arbitrarily as they want.
– KRyan
48 mins ago
@KRyan I didn't give that a lot of thought as its not somewhere I would go - I'll think and revise.
– Dale M
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
This is a really important question because it lies at the heart of what makes a role-playing game a role-playing game and specifically makes D&D D&D. So I will give the answer first and then the explanation.
The player decides what their character does.
The rule is the fundamental rule of D&D to which all other rules are merely clarifications and guidance (my emphasis):
The DM describes the environment.
The players describe what they want to do.
The DM narrates the results of the adventurers’ actions.
Now it doesn't matter if the seduction attempt is from an NPC or another PC - The players describe what they want to do.
This is at the heart of player autonomy which is at the heart of any role-playing game - its your character so you decide what it thinks and does. Nobody else gets a look in: not another player, not a random person on the street, not the Secretary General of the United Nations and certainly not the Dungeon Master.
For the specific example, you decide if you want to say yes, if you want to say no or if you want the dice to decide and that decision is yours alone and sets no precedent.
The only exception to this is when magic is involved and even then magical effects only do what they say they do. For example, if the seduction attempt was accompanied by a Suggestion spell, the suggestion would need to be "reasonable" (which it may not be for all sorts of reasons e.g. sexual orientation, sexual preference, prior monogamous commitment, prior relationship, its just creepy for the player [which it certainly is] etc.) and, if it were, you "pursue the course of action ... described to the best of [your] ability."
I also note that "my guess is that all of my party agrees that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances" does not follow from "Nobody, myself included, was against it". Agreeing to a proposed course of action is vastly different from having a course of action imposed on you.
Your sub-questions
What do the rules say about how to handle this situation?
See above.
What ability/attribute/whatever roll is required?
Assuming you want this to be decided by rolling (and I personally wouldn't) there are no specific rules for this.
My initial though was that this might represent some type of contest, however, on being challenged on this I think the better mechanic would be to treat it as a simple Charisma (Persuasion) check against a DC set by the target player - after all, they are the ones who know if being seduced would be Easy, Medium, Hard or Nearly Impossible.
Do the rules say how long a seduction attempt should take and what situational bonuses (or negatives) to apply to it?
The normal advantage/disadvantage mechanic would seem to apply.
To what point do the rules allow your DM to "take control" of your character during this seduction check?
See above.
A final comment
Consenting adults around a gaming table (or anywhere else) can engage in whatever fantasies they wish, however, the idea that it is appropriate for one human being to make unwanted and unwelcome sexual advances to another is both unethical and, in many circumstances, illegal. Being good looking or charming is not an excuse.
answered 1 hour ago
Dale M
97.3k19250440
This is a really important question because it lies at the heart of what makes a role-playing game a role-playing game and specifically makes D&D D&D. So I will give the answer first and then the explanation.
The player decides what their character does.
The rule is the fundamental rule of D&D to which all other rules are merely clarifications and guidance (my emphasis):
The DM describes the environment.
The players describe what they want to do.
The DM narrates the results of the adventurers’ actions.
Now it doesn't matter if the seduction attempt is from an NPC or another PC - The players describe what they want to do.
This is at the heart of player autonomy which is at the heart of any role-playing game - its your character so you decide what it thinks and does. Nobody else gets a look in: not another player, not a random person on the street, not the Secretary General of the United Nations and certainly not the Dungeon Master.
For the specific example, you decide if you want to say yes, if you want to say no or if you want the dice to decide and that decision is yours alone and sets no precedent.
The only exception to this is when magic is involved and even then magical effects only do what they say they do. For example, if the seduction attempt was accompanied by a Suggestion spell, the suggestion would need to be "reasonable" (which it may not be for all sorts of reasons e.g. sexual orientation, sexual preference, prior monogamous commitment, prior relationship, its just creepy for the player [which it certainly is] etc.) and, if it were, you "pursue the course of action ... described to the best of [your] ability."
I also note that "my guess is that all of my party agrees that the DM CAN take away players' agenda under the right circumstances" does not follow from "Nobody, myself included, was against it". Agreeing to a proposed course of action is vastly different from having a course of action imposed on you.
Your sub-questions
What do the rules say about how to handle this situation?
See above.
What ability/attribute/whatever roll is required?
Assuming you want this to be decided by rolling (and I personally wouldn't) there are no specific rules for this.
My initial though was that this might represent some type of contest, however, on being challenged on this I think the better mechanic would be to treat it as a simple Charisma (Persuasion) check against a DC set by the target player - after all, they are the ones who know if being seduced would be Easy, Medium, Hard or Nearly Impossible.
Do the rules say how long a seduction attempt should take and what situational bonuses (or negatives) to apply to it?
The normal advantage/disadvantage mechanic would seem to apply.
To what point do the rules allow your DM to "take control" of your character during this seduction check?
See above.
A final comment
Consenting adults around a gaming table (or anywhere else) can engage in whatever fantasies they wish, however, the idea that it is appropriate for one human being to make unwanted and unwelcome sexual advances to another is both unethical and, in many circumstances, illegal. Being good looking or charming is not an excuse.
answered 1 hour ago
Dale M
97.3k19250440
edited 17 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
Dale M
97.3k19250440
answered 1 hour ago
Dale M
97.3k19250440
answered 1 hour ago
Dale M
97.3k19250440
97.3k19250440
I was all set to upvote this, until I got to your suggestion of Charisma (Persuasion) vs. Charisma (Persuasion) or Wisdom (Insight). Not only do I think it’s a bad idea to suggest any rolls, but also, I don’t think it makes much sense for someone’s Persuasion or Insight to make much difference in seduction. Actually, no pair of rolls makes much sense—the scene should probably be an accumulation of several rolls, on individual points, rather than one roll for the whole thing. And better than opposed rolls would, I think, be just having the target player set DCs arbitrarily as they want.
– KRyan
48 mins ago
@KRyan I didn't give that a lot of thought as its not somewhere I would go - I'll think and revise.
– Dale M
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
I was all set to upvote this, until I got to your suggestion of Charisma (Persuasion) vs. Charisma (Persuasion) or Wisdom (Insight). Not only do I think it’s a bad idea to suggest any rolls, but also, I don’t think it makes much sense for someone’s Persuasion or Insight to make much difference in seduction. Actually, no pair of rolls makes much sense—the scene should probably be an accumulation of several rolls, on individual points, rather than one roll for the whole thing. And better than opposed rolls would, I think, be just having the target player set DCs arbitrarily as they want.
– KRyan
48 mins ago
@KRyan I didn't give that a lot of thought as its not somewhere I would go - I'll think and revise.
– Dale M
22 mins ago
I was all set to upvote this, until I got to your suggestion of Charisma (Persuasion) vs. Charisma (Persuasion) or Wisdom (Insight). Not only do I think it’s a bad idea to suggest any rolls, but also, I don’t think it makes much sense for someone’s Persuasion or Insight to make much difference in seduction. Actually, no pair of rolls makes much sense—the scene should probably be an accumulation of several rolls, on individual points, rather than one roll for the whole thing. And better than opposed rolls would, I think, be just having the target player set DCs arbitrarily as they want.
– KRyan
48 mins ago
I was all set to upvote this, until I got to your suggestion of Charisma (Persuasion) vs. Charisma (Persuasion) or Wisdom (Insight). Not only do I think it’s a bad idea to suggest any rolls, but also, I don’t think it makes much sense for someone’s Persuasion or Insight to make much difference in seduction. Actually, no pair of rolls makes much sense—the scene should probably be an accumulation of several rolls, on individual points, rather than one roll for the whole thing. And better than opposed rolls would, I think, be just having the target player set DCs arbitrarily as they want.
– KRyan
48 mins ago
@KRyan I didn't give that a lot of thought as its not somewhere I would go - I'll think and revise.
– Dale M
22 mins ago
@KRyan I didn't give that a lot of thought as its not somewhere I would go - I'll think and revise.
– Dale M
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
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1
Welcome to rpg.se! Have you taken the tour? Generally we prefer questions that can be backed up by evidence or experience. We also discourage asking multiple questions in a single post. If you can edit the question to be more focus on the problem you are trying to solve you may get it reopened. Thanks for asking and happy gaming!
– linksassin
10 hours ago
1
I've edited your question to ask about what the rules say about this situation since we don't handle questions which poll people about how they would handle something. Such questions do not have a best answer and are thus not a good fit for this site. But after the edit, it fits much better and may be able to be reopened.
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
1
RE: "One of the player[s] is playing an extremely attractive female character. She's a 1st level rogue with 18 CHA… who is well aware of his charming beauty…." I totally respect the roles the players have taken on here, but the pronouns this question uses baffle me. Could the PC's names be used instead of the gendered pronouns?
– Hey I Can Chan
1 hour ago
Related, possibly duplicate What do I roll for seduction?
– enkryptor
1 hour ago