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Why do many graduate programs in mathematics (United States) still have foreign language requirements today (in 2010s)?
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As far as I know, nowadays most of the mathematical literature is written and published in English and mathematicians communicate with each other in English. Although there are certain number of books written in other languages (like EGA), but at the same time their counterparts also appear in English (like Stacks Project). However, many graduate programs still require their students to pass a language translation test in French, German or Russian (which a paper dictionary, not a dictionary app in cellphones, which seems even more ridiculous to me...). I wonder what makes it still necessary to have foreign language requirement as of 2010s.
I believe my question has different focus than this one
Mathematics Ph.D program foreign language requirement
Where the questioner specifically asked for advice for the most useful language among French, German and Russian, while I am asking why we ever need a second language for mathematical study in 2010s:
I personally have no preference on which to learn, but I was wondering if there were other reasons that would make one language more advantageous over the others in terms of a general mathematical career.
phd graduate-school mathematics united-states
asked 4 hours ago
No One
1,0321921
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
As far as I know, nowadays most of the mathematical literature is written and published in English and mathematicians communicate with each other in English. Although there are certain number of books written in other languages (like EGA), but at the same time their counterparts also appear in English (like Stacks Project). However, many graduate programs still require their students to pass a language translation test in French, German or Russian (which a paper dictionary, not a dictionary app in cellphones, which seems even more ridiculous to me...). I wonder what makes it still necessary to have foreign language requirement as of 2010s.
I believe my question has different focus than this one
Mathematics Ph.D program foreign language requirement
Where the questioner specifically asked for advice for the most useful language among French, German and Russian, while I am asking why we ever need a second language for mathematical study in 2010s:
I personally have no preference on which to learn, but I was wondering if there were other reasons that would make one language more advantageous over the others in terms of a general mathematical career.
phd graduate-school mathematics united-states
asked 4 hours ago
No One
1,0321921
Are those programmes taught in English?
– fqq
4 hours ago
8
Most =/= all. Even today there are worthy papers published in languages other than English. Are you going to skip them because you can't read them?
– Najib Idrissi
4 hours ago
2
It can be quite helpful to know another language, as is nicely evidenced in this answer to a related question.
– Anyon
4 hours ago
@fqq Sorry I forgot to add "United States"
– No One
39 mins ago
Good luck reading the SGA if you only speak English. The proficiency required is not really that much, just basic reading comprehension.
– Denis Nardin
4 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
As far as I know, nowadays most of the mathematical literature is written and published in English and mathematicians communicate with each other in English. Although there are certain number of books written in other languages (like EGA), but at the same time their counterparts also appear in English (like Stacks Project). However, many graduate programs still require their students to pass a language translation test in French, German or Russian (which a paper dictionary, not a dictionary app in cellphones, which seems even more ridiculous to me...). I wonder what makes it still necessary to have foreign language requirement as of 2010s.
I believe my question has different focus than this one
Mathematics Ph.D program foreign language requirement
Where the questioner specifically asked for advice for the most useful language among French, German and Russian, while I am asking why we ever need a second language for mathematical study in 2010s:
I personally have no preference on which to learn, but I was wondering if there were other reasons that would make one language more advantageous over the others in terms of a general mathematical career.
phd graduate-school mathematics united-states
asked 4 hours ago
No One
1,0321921
As far as I know, nowadays most of the mathematical literature is written and published in English and mathematicians communicate with each other in English. Although there are certain number of books written in other languages (like EGA), but at the same time their counterparts also appear in English (like Stacks Project). However, many graduate programs still require their students to pass a language translation test in French, German or Russian (which a paper dictionary, not a dictionary app in cellphones, which seems even more ridiculous to me...). I wonder what makes it still necessary to have foreign language requirement as of 2010s.
I believe my question has different focus than this one
Mathematics Ph.D program foreign language requirement
Where the questioner specifically asked for advice for the most useful language among French, German and Russian, while I am asking why we ever need a second language for mathematical study in 2010s:
I personally have no preference on which to learn, but I was wondering if there were other reasons that would make one language more advantageous over the others in terms of a general mathematical career.
phd graduate-school mathematics united-states
phd graduate-school mathematics united-states
asked 4 hours ago
No One
1,0321921
asked 4 hours ago
No One
1,0321921
edited 41 mins ago
asked 4 hours ago
No One
1,0321921
asked 4 hours ago
No One
1,0321921
asked 4 hours ago
No One
1,0321921
1,0321921
Are those programmes taught in English?
– fqq
4 hours ago
8
Most =/= all. Even today there are worthy papers published in languages other than English. Are you going to skip them because you can't read them?
– Najib Idrissi
4 hours ago
2
It can be quite helpful to know another language, as is nicely evidenced in this answer to a related question.
– Anyon
4 hours ago
@fqq Sorry I forgot to add "United States"
– No One
39 mins ago
Good luck reading the SGA if you only speak English. The proficiency required is not really that much, just basic reading comprehension.
– Denis Nardin
4 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Are those programmes taught in English?
– fqq
4 hours ago
8
Most =/= all. Even today there are worthy papers published in languages other than English. Are you going to skip them because you can't read them?
– Najib Idrissi
4 hours ago
2
It can be quite helpful to know another language, as is nicely evidenced in this answer to a related question.
– Anyon
4 hours ago
@fqq Sorry I forgot to add "United States"
– No One
39 mins ago
Good luck reading the SGA if you only speak English. The proficiency required is not really that much, just basic reading comprehension.
– Denis Nardin
4 mins ago
Are those programmes taught in English?
– fqq
4 hours ago
Are those programmes taught in English?
– fqq
4 hours ago
8
8
Most =/= all. Even today there are worthy papers published in languages other than English. Are you going to skip them because you can't read them?
– Najib Idrissi
4 hours ago
Most =/= all. Even today there are worthy papers published in languages other than English. Are you going to skip them because you can't read them?
– Najib Idrissi
4 hours ago
2
2
It can be quite helpful to know another language, as is nicely evidenced in this answer to a related question.
– Anyon
4 hours ago
It can be quite helpful to know another language, as is nicely evidenced in this answer to a related question.
– Anyon
4 hours ago
@fqq Sorry I forgot to add "United States"
– No One
39 mins ago
@fqq Sorry I forgot to add "United States"
– No One
39 mins ago
Good luck reading the SGA if you only speak English. The proficiency required is not really that much, just basic reading comprehension.
– Denis Nardin
4 mins ago
Good luck reading the SGA if you only speak English. The proficiency required is not really that much, just basic reading comprehension.
– Denis Nardin
4 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
Some graduate programs may come with additional requirements, e.g. teaching duties in the local language or come with a working contract and this may require a certain visa and the visa requirements are not controlled by the graduate programs.
Also, living in a foreign country is much easier if you have basic knowledge of the local language, e.g. for communicating with landlords, offices, or the university administration. And no, English is not always enough (e.g. in France or Germany, you will encounter situations where English is not very helpful).
answered 4 hours ago
Dirk
30.9k577126
1
These are valid considerations, but I don't think the language exam addresses either; such exams typically focus only on one's ability to read mathematics in the target language(s). This is next to useless for any sort of non-mathematical communication. Even the grammar one learns is quite limited.
– Nate Eldredge
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Part of it is just inertia. But it is a small part, I think. When I studied maths in the previous century there was a two language requirement. Initially it was French and German. Russian was added as a third option when it was realized that a lot of great math was being created in the USSR that wasn't available in English (or French or German). Later, one could substitute a Programming Language for one of your two languages.
However, even today, not everything that a working mathematician wants to know is available in English, so for a practical reason it is useful, still, to have language skills beyond English. Machine Translation has made great strides in the past decades, but mathematics is probably still very difficult to translate correctly. This is partly due to the smaller sample size of available texts on which to train translators.
But, I would, myself, be hesitant to drop a language requirement from a modern mathematics graduate program for a completely different reason. Consider, as I do, that language skill is a help in mathematics itself. Among other things, mathematics is a language, and it requires a certain training of the mind in order to speak it well. Mathematics uses vocabulary and structure to express deep ideas - language. So, language training of any sort, trains the brain in a certain way that may actually assist in the mathematical way of thinking.
I'm not sure I'd be adamant with my colleagues who wanted to replace the last language requirement in a program with something else, but I'd want to hear arguments about how that would make for better thinking. Another math course or two might be useful, but would it be better? Hard to say.
answered 4 hours ago
Buffy
21.4k667121
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
Some graduate programs may come with additional requirements, e.g. teaching duties in the local language or come with a working contract and this may require a certain visa and the visa requirements are not controlled by the graduate programs.
Also, living in a foreign country is much easier if you have basic knowledge of the local language, e.g. for communicating with landlords, offices, or the university administration. And no, English is not always enough (e.g. in France or Germany, you will encounter situations where English is not very helpful).
answered 4 hours ago
Dirk
30.9k577126
1
These are valid considerations, but I don't think the language exam addresses either; such exams typically focus only on one's ability to read mathematics in the target language(s). This is next to useless for any sort of non-mathematical communication. Even the grammar one learns is quite limited.
– Nate Eldredge
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Some graduate programs may come with additional requirements, e.g. teaching duties in the local language or come with a working contract and this may require a certain visa and the visa requirements are not controlled by the graduate programs.
Also, living in a foreign country is much easier if you have basic knowledge of the local language, e.g. for communicating with landlords, offices, or the university administration. And no, English is not always enough (e.g. in France or Germany, you will encounter situations where English is not very helpful).
answered 4 hours ago
Dirk
30.9k577126
1
These are valid considerations, but I don't think the language exam addresses either; such exams typically focus only on one's ability to read mathematics in the target language(s). This is next to useless for any sort of non-mathematical communication. Even the grammar one learns is quite limited.
– Nate Eldredge
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Some graduate programs may come with additional requirements, e.g. teaching duties in the local language or come with a working contract and this may require a certain visa and the visa requirements are not controlled by the graduate programs.
Also, living in a foreign country is much easier if you have basic knowledge of the local language, e.g. for communicating with landlords, offices, or the university administration. And no, English is not always enough (e.g. in France or Germany, you will encounter situations where English is not very helpful).
answered 4 hours ago
Dirk
30.9k577126
Some graduate programs may come with additional requirements, e.g. teaching duties in the local language or come with a working contract and this may require a certain visa and the visa requirements are not controlled by the graduate programs.
Also, living in a foreign country is much easier if you have basic knowledge of the local language, e.g. for communicating with landlords, offices, or the university administration. And no, English is not always enough (e.g. in France or Germany, you will encounter situations where English is not very helpful).
answered 4 hours ago
Dirk
30.9k577126
answered 4 hours ago
Dirk
30.9k577126
answered 4 hours ago
Dirk
30.9k577126
answered 4 hours ago
Dirk
30.9k577126
30.9k577126
1
These are valid considerations, but I don't think the language exam addresses either; such exams typically focus only on one's ability to read mathematics in the target language(s). This is next to useless for any sort of non-mathematical communication. Even the grammar one learns is quite limited.
– Nate Eldredge
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
These are valid considerations, but I don't think the language exam addresses either; such exams typically focus only on one's ability to read mathematics in the target language(s). This is next to useless for any sort of non-mathematical communication. Even the grammar one learns is quite limited.
– Nate Eldredge
3 hours ago
1
1
These are valid considerations, but I don't think the language exam addresses either; such exams typically focus only on one's ability to read mathematics in the target language(s). This is next to useless for any sort of non-mathematical communication. Even the grammar one learns is quite limited.
– Nate Eldredge
3 hours ago
These are valid considerations, but I don't think the language exam addresses either; such exams typically focus only on one's ability to read mathematics in the target language(s). This is next to useless for any sort of non-mathematical communication. Even the grammar one learns is quite limited.
– Nate Eldredge
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Part of it is just inertia. But it is a small part, I think. When I studied maths in the previous century there was a two language requirement. Initially it was French and German. Russian was added as a third option when it was realized that a lot of great math was being created in the USSR that wasn't available in English (or French or German). Later, one could substitute a Programming Language for one of your two languages.
However, even today, not everything that a working mathematician wants to know is available in English, so for a practical reason it is useful, still, to have language skills beyond English. Machine Translation has made great strides in the past decades, but mathematics is probably still very difficult to translate correctly. This is partly due to the smaller sample size of available texts on which to train translators.
But, I would, myself, be hesitant to drop a language requirement from a modern mathematics graduate program for a completely different reason. Consider, as I do, that language skill is a help in mathematics itself. Among other things, mathematics is a language, and it requires a certain training of the mind in order to speak it well. Mathematics uses vocabulary and structure to express deep ideas - language. So, language training of any sort, trains the brain in a certain way that may actually assist in the mathematical way of thinking.
I'm not sure I'd be adamant with my colleagues who wanted to replace the last language requirement in a program with something else, but I'd want to hear arguments about how that would make for better thinking. Another math course or two might be useful, but would it be better? Hard to say.
answered 4 hours ago
Buffy
21.4k667121
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Part of it is just inertia. But it is a small part, I think. When I studied maths in the previous century there was a two language requirement. Initially it was French and German. Russian was added as a third option when it was realized that a lot of great math was being created in the USSR that wasn't available in English (or French or German). Later, one could substitute a Programming Language for one of your two languages.
However, even today, not everything that a working mathematician wants to know is available in English, so for a practical reason it is useful, still, to have language skills beyond English. Machine Translation has made great strides in the past decades, but mathematics is probably still very difficult to translate correctly. This is partly due to the smaller sample size of available texts on which to train translators.
But, I would, myself, be hesitant to drop a language requirement from a modern mathematics graduate program for a completely different reason. Consider, as I do, that language skill is a help in mathematics itself. Among other things, mathematics is a language, and it requires a certain training of the mind in order to speak it well. Mathematics uses vocabulary and structure to express deep ideas - language. So, language training of any sort, trains the brain in a certain way that may actually assist in the mathematical way of thinking.
I'm not sure I'd be adamant with my colleagues who wanted to replace the last language requirement in a program with something else, but I'd want to hear arguments about how that would make for better thinking. Another math course or two might be useful, but would it be better? Hard to say.
answered 4 hours ago
Buffy
21.4k667121
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Part of it is just inertia. But it is a small part, I think. When I studied maths in the previous century there was a two language requirement. Initially it was French and German. Russian was added as a third option when it was realized that a lot of great math was being created in the USSR that wasn't available in English (or French or German). Later, one could substitute a Programming Language for one of your two languages.
However, even today, not everything that a working mathematician wants to know is available in English, so for a practical reason it is useful, still, to have language skills beyond English. Machine Translation has made great strides in the past decades, but mathematics is probably still very difficult to translate correctly. This is partly due to the smaller sample size of available texts on which to train translators.
But, I would, myself, be hesitant to drop a language requirement from a modern mathematics graduate program for a completely different reason. Consider, as I do, that language skill is a help in mathematics itself. Among other things, mathematics is a language, and it requires a certain training of the mind in order to speak it well. Mathematics uses vocabulary and structure to express deep ideas - language. So, language training of any sort, trains the brain in a certain way that may actually assist in the mathematical way of thinking.
I'm not sure I'd be adamant with my colleagues who wanted to replace the last language requirement in a program with something else, but I'd want to hear arguments about how that would make for better thinking. Another math course or two might be useful, but would it be better? Hard to say.
answered 4 hours ago
Buffy
21.4k667121
Part of it is just inertia. But it is a small part, I think. When I studied maths in the previous century there was a two language requirement. Initially it was French and German. Russian was added as a third option when it was realized that a lot of great math was being created in the USSR that wasn't available in English (or French or German). Later, one could substitute a Programming Language for one of your two languages.
However, even today, not everything that a working mathematician wants to know is available in English, so for a practical reason it is useful, still, to have language skills beyond English. Machine Translation has made great strides in the past decades, but mathematics is probably still very difficult to translate correctly. This is partly due to the smaller sample size of available texts on which to train translators.
But, I would, myself, be hesitant to drop a language requirement from a modern mathematics graduate program for a completely different reason. Consider, as I do, that language skill is a help in mathematics itself. Among other things, mathematics is a language, and it requires a certain training of the mind in order to speak it well. Mathematics uses vocabulary and structure to express deep ideas - language. So, language training of any sort, trains the brain in a certain way that may actually assist in the mathematical way of thinking.
I'm not sure I'd be adamant with my colleagues who wanted to replace the last language requirement in a program with something else, but I'd want to hear arguments about how that would make for better thinking. Another math course or two might be useful, but would it be better? Hard to say.
answered 4 hours ago
Buffy
21.4k667121
edited 2 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
Buffy
21.4k667121
answered 4 hours ago
Buffy
21.4k667121
answered 4 hours ago
Buffy
21.4k667121
21.4k667121
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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Are those programmes taught in English?
– fqq
4 hours ago
8
Most =/= all. Even today there are worthy papers published in languages other than English. Are you going to skip them because you can't read them?
– Najib Idrissi
4 hours ago
2
It can be quite helpful to know another language, as is nicely evidenced in this answer to a related question.
– Anyon
4 hours ago
@fqq Sorry I forgot to add "United States"
– No One
39 mins ago
Good luck reading the SGA if you only speak English. The proficiency required is not really that much, just basic reading comprehension.
– Denis Nardin
4 mins ago