Mixing
Does borrowing chords from a parallel key (modal mixture) change the key?
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I was watching a video how a guy uses chords from different modes. Let's say I'm in C major, my understanding is that I can borrow any chord from any of the 7 parallel modes to make my chord progression and/or melody more interesting: Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian.
But I'm wondering if that ever changes my key? Or as long as I never mess with the I chord then the key is safe? Or do I ever want to change the key?
theory modes
asked 2 hours ago
foreyez
3,64722062
 |Â
show 5 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I was watching a video how a guy uses chords from different modes. Let's say I'm in C major, my understanding is that I can borrow any chord from any of the 7 parallel modes to make my chord progression and/or melody more interesting: Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian.
But I'm wondering if that ever changes my key? Or as long as I never mess with the I chord then the key is safe? Or do I ever want to change the key?
theory modes
asked 2 hours ago
foreyez
3,64722062
Sounds like you can use any chords or any notes to play in any key. You can.
– Tim
2 hours ago
I can't use any chords (?) I thought only chords from parallel keys.
– foreyez
2 hours ago
1
Please, please, please stop trying to work from 'rules'. Although a lot of pieces will use maybe only three chords, there is no 'rule' that states other chords, not from that key or its parallel key may not be used. I play pieces in C major that include F# major. They work, but 'don't follow the rules'. Just go with the flow, and stop trying to straightjacket yourself. Please!
– Tim
2 hours ago
1
@Tim if we all just "went with the flow" then this site wouldn't be needed. The only guidance would be "meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!" :>
– foreyez
2 hours ago
2
Who's talking about rules? The question is about if using "borrowed" chords or mode mixture results in a key change. A fine question.
– Michael Curtis
49 mins ago
 |Â
show 5 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I was watching a video how a guy uses chords from different modes. Let's say I'm in C major, my understanding is that I can borrow any chord from any of the 7 parallel modes to make my chord progression and/or melody more interesting: Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian.
But I'm wondering if that ever changes my key? Or as long as I never mess with the I chord then the key is safe? Or do I ever want to change the key?
theory modes
asked 2 hours ago
foreyez
3,64722062
I was watching a video how a guy uses chords from different modes. Let's say I'm in C major, my understanding is that I can borrow any chord from any of the 7 parallel modes to make my chord progression and/or melody more interesting: Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian.
But I'm wondering if that ever changes my key? Or as long as I never mess with the I chord then the key is safe? Or do I ever want to change the key?
theory modes
theory modes
asked 2 hours ago
foreyez
3,64722062
asked 2 hours ago
foreyez
3,64722062
edited 7 mins ago
asked 2 hours ago
foreyez
3,64722062
asked 2 hours ago
foreyez
3,64722062
asked 2 hours ago
foreyez
3,64722062
3,64722062
Sounds like you can use any chords or any notes to play in any key. You can.
– Tim
2 hours ago
I can't use any chords (?) I thought only chords from parallel keys.
– foreyez
2 hours ago
1
Please, please, please stop trying to work from 'rules'. Although a lot of pieces will use maybe only three chords, there is no 'rule' that states other chords, not from that key or its parallel key may not be used. I play pieces in C major that include F# major. They work, but 'don't follow the rules'. Just go with the flow, and stop trying to straightjacket yourself. Please!
– Tim
2 hours ago
1
@Tim if we all just "went with the flow" then this site wouldn't be needed. The only guidance would be "meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!" :>
– foreyez
2 hours ago
2
Who's talking about rules? The question is about if using "borrowed" chords or mode mixture results in a key change. A fine question.
– Michael Curtis
49 mins ago
 |Â
show 5 more comments
Sounds like you can use any chords or any notes to play in any key. You can.
– Tim
2 hours ago
I can't use any chords (?) I thought only chords from parallel keys.
– foreyez
2 hours ago
1
Please, please, please stop trying to work from 'rules'. Although a lot of pieces will use maybe only three chords, there is no 'rule' that states other chords, not from that key or its parallel key may not be used. I play pieces in C major that include F# major. They work, but 'don't follow the rules'. Just go with the flow, and stop trying to straightjacket yourself. Please!
– Tim
2 hours ago
1
@Tim if we all just "went with the flow" then this site wouldn't be needed. The only guidance would be "meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!" :>
– foreyez
2 hours ago
2
Who's talking about rules? The question is about if using "borrowed" chords or mode mixture results in a key change. A fine question.
– Michael Curtis
49 mins ago
Sounds like you can use any chords or any notes to play in any key. You can.
– Tim
2 hours ago
Sounds like you can use any chords or any notes to play in any key. You can.
– Tim
2 hours ago
I can't use any chords (?) I thought only chords from parallel keys.
– foreyez
2 hours ago
I can't use any chords (?) I thought only chords from parallel keys.
– foreyez
2 hours ago
1
1
Please, please, please stop trying to work from 'rules'. Although a lot of pieces will use maybe only three chords, there is no 'rule' that states other chords, not from that key or its parallel key may not be used. I play pieces in C major that include F# major. They work, but 'don't follow the rules'. Just go with the flow, and stop trying to straightjacket yourself. Please!
– Tim
2 hours ago
Please, please, please stop trying to work from 'rules'. Although a lot of pieces will use maybe only three chords, there is no 'rule' that states other chords, not from that key or its parallel key may not be used. I play pieces in C major that include F# major. They work, but 'don't follow the rules'. Just go with the flow, and stop trying to straightjacket yourself. Please!
– Tim
2 hours ago
1
1
@Tim if we all just "went with the flow" then this site wouldn't be needed. The only guidance would be "meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!" :>
– foreyez
2 hours ago
@Tim if we all just "went with the flow" then this site wouldn't be needed. The only guidance would be "meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!" :>
– foreyez
2 hours ago
2
2
Who's talking about rules? The question is about if using "borrowed" chords or mode mixture results in a key change. A fine question.
– Michael Curtis
49 mins ago
Who's talking about rules? The question is about if using "borrowed" chords or mode mixture results in a key change. A fine question.
– Michael Curtis
49 mins ago
 |Â
show 5 more comments
4 Answers
4
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oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
It depends on how you define "change the key."
Traditionally, modulation is understood as a change in tonic. If you keep tonic (say, C) the same, you don't modulate. Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode.
So if by "change the key" you mean "modulate," then it's only a modulation if you move to a new tonic. Otherwise, it will be a change in mode. This includes moving from, say, C Ionian to C Lydian.
Modal mixture, meanwhile, is traditionally understood as borrowing scale degrees and/or chord qualities from a parallel mode. Since parallel modes by definition have the same tonic, mode mixture thus will not qualify as a modulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Richard
32.3k671136
they might have the same tonic, but the "I chord" is different. if I change the "I chord", wouldn't that modulate the song? so maybe it's better not to change the I chord and to only change the other 6 chords.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
The tonic chord may well be different, but the tonic pitch isn't, and the latter is what defines something as a modulation.
– Richard
1 hour ago
So you're saying that I can't modulate between C major and C minor?
– foreyez
1 hour ago
@foreyez "Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode."
– Richard
1 hour ago
I didn't know that... wow good stuff!
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
All this is really saying is that you can use any chord you like, and 'theory' will find an excuse for it. If you think I'm being obtuse, find me a chord that COULDN'T be used?
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence Payne
27.9k1350
I find that if I just use any chords I want for a progression without any kind of "rule" then it usually sounds like a train accident.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
Write the melody first.
– Laurence Payne
1 hour ago
+1 on that, good advice.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
But I'm wondering if that ever changes my key?
To an extent, that's up to you.
Arguably, the key isn't really part of the essence of a piece of music - Rather, it's a perspective to look at that piece of music from, and to give you a perspective on how the piece works.
Of course, some pieces of music align so well with a certain key that that key seems the only sensible perspective from which to see the piece.
In other cases, it may be helpful to view parts of the piece as being in a different key - or it may be the case that a whole piece is based around an 'ambiguous' chord progression that could be viewed from the perspective of more than one key in its entirety.
BTW your comment...
"meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!"
... would indeed another be valid perspective on many pieces of music - and for some, again, perhaps one you might find useful.
answered 25 mins ago
topo morto
21.2k23691
I was just thinking how things impact the "tonal center" of a song. I wasn't aware that borrowing chords from a parallel key has no impact on the tonal center.
– foreyez
20 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
"as long as I never mess with the I chord then the key is safe?"
Keep in mind you can have a temporary tonicization of another tonal center which doesn't necessarily result in a key change. How to tell the difference? Relative length of the shift, or better yet check in what key your true cadences occur. Traditionally cadences define keys.
So, you can mess with the I chord for a temporary shift. For example you can put a flat seventh on I (in roman numerals I would become V7/IV) for a change like C7-F. If that move wasn't followed by a cadence in F, probably it wouldn't be considered a key change.
You could add in the mode mixture idea too and try C7-fm - so that's messing with the tonic add borrowing a chord from the minor mode. Should darken the mood a lot. If you got back to C major quickly and ended the phrase in C major, it probably would not seem to be a key change. (I'm just throwing out some chord change ideas, you might have to play around with such changes to get a phrase that actually works. But I hope it's help illustrate the point.)
answered 19 mins ago
Michael Curtis
2,288315
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
It depends on how you define "change the key."
Traditionally, modulation is understood as a change in tonic. If you keep tonic (say, C) the same, you don't modulate. Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode.
So if by "change the key" you mean "modulate," then it's only a modulation if you move to a new tonic. Otherwise, it will be a change in mode. This includes moving from, say, C Ionian to C Lydian.
Modal mixture, meanwhile, is traditionally understood as borrowing scale degrees and/or chord qualities from a parallel mode. Since parallel modes by definition have the same tonic, mode mixture thus will not qualify as a modulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Richard
32.3k671136
they might have the same tonic, but the "I chord" is different. if I change the "I chord", wouldn't that modulate the song? so maybe it's better not to change the I chord and to only change the other 6 chords.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
The tonic chord may well be different, but the tonic pitch isn't, and the latter is what defines something as a modulation.
– Richard
1 hour ago
So you're saying that I can't modulate between C major and C minor?
– foreyez
1 hour ago
@foreyez "Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode."
– Richard
1 hour ago
I didn't know that... wow good stuff!
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
It depends on how you define "change the key."
Traditionally, modulation is understood as a change in tonic. If you keep tonic (say, C) the same, you don't modulate. Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode.
So if by "change the key" you mean "modulate," then it's only a modulation if you move to a new tonic. Otherwise, it will be a change in mode. This includes moving from, say, C Ionian to C Lydian.
Modal mixture, meanwhile, is traditionally understood as borrowing scale degrees and/or chord qualities from a parallel mode. Since parallel modes by definition have the same tonic, mode mixture thus will not qualify as a modulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Richard
32.3k671136
they might have the same tonic, but the "I chord" is different. if I change the "I chord", wouldn't that modulate the song? so maybe it's better not to change the I chord and to only change the other 6 chords.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
The tonic chord may well be different, but the tonic pitch isn't, and the latter is what defines something as a modulation.
– Richard
1 hour ago
So you're saying that I can't modulate between C major and C minor?
– foreyez
1 hour ago
@foreyez "Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode."
– Richard
1 hour ago
I didn't know that... wow good stuff!
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
It depends on how you define "change the key."
Traditionally, modulation is understood as a change in tonic. If you keep tonic (say, C) the same, you don't modulate. Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode.
So if by "change the key" you mean "modulate," then it's only a modulation if you move to a new tonic. Otherwise, it will be a change in mode. This includes moving from, say, C Ionian to C Lydian.
Modal mixture, meanwhile, is traditionally understood as borrowing scale degrees and/or chord qualities from a parallel mode. Since parallel modes by definition have the same tonic, mode mixture thus will not qualify as a modulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Richard
32.3k671136
It depends on how you define "change the key."
Traditionally, modulation is understood as a change in tonic. If you keep tonic (say, C) the same, you don't modulate. Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode.
So if by "change the key" you mean "modulate," then it's only a modulation if you move to a new tonic. Otherwise, it will be a change in mode. This includes moving from, say, C Ionian to C Lydian.
Modal mixture, meanwhile, is traditionally understood as borrowing scale degrees and/or chord qualities from a parallel mode. Since parallel modes by definition have the same tonic, mode mixture thus will not qualify as a modulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Richard
32.3k671136
answered 1 hour ago
Richard
32.3k671136
answered 1 hour ago
Richard
32.3k671136
answered 1 hour ago
Richard
32.3k671136
32.3k671136
they might have the same tonic, but the "I chord" is different. if I change the "I chord", wouldn't that modulate the song? so maybe it's better not to change the I chord and to only change the other 6 chords.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
The tonic chord may well be different, but the tonic pitch isn't, and the latter is what defines something as a modulation.
– Richard
1 hour ago
So you're saying that I can't modulate between C major and C minor?
– foreyez
1 hour ago
@foreyez "Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode."
– Richard
1 hour ago
I didn't know that... wow good stuff!
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
they might have the same tonic, but the "I chord" is different. if I change the "I chord", wouldn't that modulate the song? so maybe it's better not to change the I chord and to only change the other 6 chords.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
The tonic chord may well be different, but the tonic pitch isn't, and the latter is what defines something as a modulation.
– Richard
1 hour ago
So you're saying that I can't modulate between C major and C minor?
– foreyez
1 hour ago
@foreyez "Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode."
– Richard
1 hour ago
I didn't know that... wow good stuff!
– foreyez
1 hour ago
they might have the same tonic, but the "I chord" is different. if I change the "I chord", wouldn't that modulate the song? so maybe it's better not to change the I chord and to only change the other 6 chords.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
they might have the same tonic, but the "I chord" is different. if I change the "I chord", wouldn't that modulate the song? so maybe it's better not to change the I chord and to only change the other 6 chords.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
The tonic chord may well be different, but the tonic pitch isn't, and the latter is what defines something as a modulation.
– Richard
1 hour ago
The tonic chord may well be different, but the tonic pitch isn't, and the latter is what defines something as a modulation.
– Richard
1 hour ago
So you're saying that I can't modulate between C major and C minor?
– foreyez
1 hour ago
So you're saying that I can't modulate between C major and C minor?
– foreyez
1 hour ago
@foreyez "Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode."
– Richard
1 hour ago
@foreyez "Even if it's between C major and C minor, this is not a modulation, but rather just a change in mode."
– Richard
1 hour ago
I didn't know that... wow good stuff!
– foreyez
1 hour ago
I didn't know that... wow good stuff!
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
All this is really saying is that you can use any chord you like, and 'theory' will find an excuse for it. If you think I'm being obtuse, find me a chord that COULDN'T be used?
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence Payne
27.9k1350
I find that if I just use any chords I want for a progression without any kind of "rule" then it usually sounds like a train accident.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
Write the melody first.
– Laurence Payne
1 hour ago
+1 on that, good advice.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
All this is really saying is that you can use any chord you like, and 'theory' will find an excuse for it. If you think I'm being obtuse, find me a chord that COULDN'T be used?
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence Payne
27.9k1350
I find that if I just use any chords I want for a progression without any kind of "rule" then it usually sounds like a train accident.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
Write the melody first.
– Laurence Payne
1 hour ago
+1 on that, good advice.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
All this is really saying is that you can use any chord you like, and 'theory' will find an excuse for it. If you think I'm being obtuse, find me a chord that COULDN'T be used?
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence Payne
27.9k1350
All this is really saying is that you can use any chord you like, and 'theory' will find an excuse for it. If you think I'm being obtuse, find me a chord that COULDN'T be used?
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence Payne
27.9k1350
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence Payne
27.9k1350
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence Payne
27.9k1350
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence Payne
27.9k1350
27.9k1350
I find that if I just use any chords I want for a progression without any kind of "rule" then it usually sounds like a train accident.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
Write the melody first.
– Laurence Payne
1 hour ago
+1 on that, good advice.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
I find that if I just use any chords I want for a progression without any kind of "rule" then it usually sounds like a train accident.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
Write the melody first.
– Laurence Payne
1 hour ago
+1 on that, good advice.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
I find that if I just use any chords I want for a progression without any kind of "rule" then it usually sounds like a train accident.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
I find that if I just use any chords I want for a progression without any kind of "rule" then it usually sounds like a train accident.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
Write the melody first.
– Laurence Payne
1 hour ago
Write the melody first.
– Laurence Payne
1 hour ago
+1 on that, good advice.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
+1 on that, good advice.
– foreyez
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
But I'm wondering if that ever changes my key?
To an extent, that's up to you.
Arguably, the key isn't really part of the essence of a piece of music - Rather, it's a perspective to look at that piece of music from, and to give you a perspective on how the piece works.
Of course, some pieces of music align so well with a certain key that that key seems the only sensible perspective from which to see the piece.
In other cases, it may be helpful to view parts of the piece as being in a different key - or it may be the case that a whole piece is based around an 'ambiguous' chord progression that could be viewed from the perspective of more than one key in its entirety.
BTW your comment...
"meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!"
... would indeed another be valid perspective on many pieces of music - and for some, again, perhaps one you might find useful.
answered 25 mins ago
topo morto
21.2k23691
I was just thinking how things impact the "tonal center" of a song. I wasn't aware that borrowing chords from a parallel key has no impact on the tonal center.
– foreyez
20 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
But I'm wondering if that ever changes my key?
To an extent, that's up to you.
Arguably, the key isn't really part of the essence of a piece of music - Rather, it's a perspective to look at that piece of music from, and to give you a perspective on how the piece works.
Of course, some pieces of music align so well with a certain key that that key seems the only sensible perspective from which to see the piece.
In other cases, it may be helpful to view parts of the piece as being in a different key - or it may be the case that a whole piece is based around an 'ambiguous' chord progression that could be viewed from the perspective of more than one key in its entirety.
BTW your comment...
"meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!"
... would indeed another be valid perspective on many pieces of music - and for some, again, perhaps one you might find useful.
answered 25 mins ago
topo morto
21.2k23691
I was just thinking how things impact the "tonal center" of a song. I wasn't aware that borrowing chords from a parallel key has no impact on the tonal center.
– foreyez
20 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
But I'm wondering if that ever changes my key?
To an extent, that's up to you.
Arguably, the key isn't really part of the essence of a piece of music - Rather, it's a perspective to look at that piece of music from, and to give you a perspective on how the piece works.
Of course, some pieces of music align so well with a certain key that that key seems the only sensible perspective from which to see the piece.
In other cases, it may be helpful to view parts of the piece as being in a different key - or it may be the case that a whole piece is based around an 'ambiguous' chord progression that could be viewed from the perspective of more than one key in its entirety.
BTW your comment...
"meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!"
... would indeed another be valid perspective on many pieces of music - and for some, again, perhaps one you might find useful.
answered 25 mins ago
topo morto
21.2k23691
But I'm wondering if that ever changes my key?
To an extent, that's up to you.
Arguably, the key isn't really part of the essence of a piece of music - Rather, it's a perspective to look at that piece of music from, and to give you a perspective on how the piece works.
Of course, some pieces of music align so well with a certain key that that key seems the only sensible perspective from which to see the piece.
In other cases, it may be helpful to view parts of the piece as being in a different key - or it may be the case that a whole piece is based around an 'ambiguous' chord progression that could be viewed from the perspective of more than one key in its entirety.
BTW your comment...
"meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!"
... would indeed another be valid perspective on many pieces of music - and for some, again, perhaps one you might find useful.
answered 25 mins ago
topo morto
21.2k23691
answered 25 mins ago
topo morto
21.2k23691
answered 25 mins ago
topo morto
21.2k23691
answered 25 mins ago
topo morto
21.2k23691
21.2k23691
I was just thinking how things impact the "tonal center" of a song. I wasn't aware that borrowing chords from a parallel key has no impact on the tonal center.
– foreyez
20 mins ago
add a comment |Â
I was just thinking how things impact the "tonal center" of a song. I wasn't aware that borrowing chords from a parallel key has no impact on the tonal center.
– foreyez
20 mins ago
I was just thinking how things impact the "tonal center" of a song. I wasn't aware that borrowing chords from a parallel key has no impact on the tonal center.
– foreyez
20 mins ago
I was just thinking how things impact the "tonal center" of a song. I wasn't aware that borrowing chords from a parallel key has no impact on the tonal center.
– foreyez
20 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
"as long as I never mess with the I chord then the key is safe?"
Keep in mind you can have a temporary tonicization of another tonal center which doesn't necessarily result in a key change. How to tell the difference? Relative length of the shift, or better yet check in what key your true cadences occur. Traditionally cadences define keys.
So, you can mess with the I chord for a temporary shift. For example you can put a flat seventh on I (in roman numerals I would become V7/IV) for a change like C7-F. If that move wasn't followed by a cadence in F, probably it wouldn't be considered a key change.
You could add in the mode mixture idea too and try C7-fm - so that's messing with the tonic add borrowing a chord from the minor mode. Should darken the mood a lot. If you got back to C major quickly and ended the phrase in C major, it probably would not seem to be a key change. (I'm just throwing out some chord change ideas, you might have to play around with such changes to get a phrase that actually works. But I hope it's help illustrate the point.)
answered 19 mins ago
Michael Curtis
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"as long as I never mess with the I chord then the key is safe?"
Keep in mind you can have a temporary tonicization of another tonal center which doesn't necessarily result in a key change. How to tell the difference? Relative length of the shift, or better yet check in what key your true cadences occur. Traditionally cadences define keys.
So, you can mess with the I chord for a temporary shift. For example you can put a flat seventh on I (in roman numerals I would become V7/IV) for a change like C7-F. If that move wasn't followed by a cadence in F, probably it wouldn't be considered a key change.
You could add in the mode mixture idea too and try C7-fm - so that's messing with the tonic add borrowing a chord from the minor mode. Should darken the mood a lot. If you got back to C major quickly and ended the phrase in C major, it probably would not seem to be a key change. (I'm just throwing out some chord change ideas, you might have to play around with such changes to get a phrase that actually works. But I hope it's help illustrate the point.)
answered 19 mins ago
Michael Curtis
2,288315
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
"as long as I never mess with the I chord then the key is safe?"
Keep in mind you can have a temporary tonicization of another tonal center which doesn't necessarily result in a key change. How to tell the difference? Relative length of the shift, or better yet check in what key your true cadences occur. Traditionally cadences define keys.
So, you can mess with the I chord for a temporary shift. For example you can put a flat seventh on I (in roman numerals I would become V7/IV) for a change like C7-F. If that move wasn't followed by a cadence in F, probably it wouldn't be considered a key change.
You could add in the mode mixture idea too and try C7-fm - so that's messing with the tonic add borrowing a chord from the minor mode. Should darken the mood a lot. If you got back to C major quickly and ended the phrase in C major, it probably would not seem to be a key change. (I'm just throwing out some chord change ideas, you might have to play around with such changes to get a phrase that actually works. But I hope it's help illustrate the point.)
answered 19 mins ago
Michael Curtis
2,288315
"as long as I never mess with the I chord then the key is safe?"
Keep in mind you can have a temporary tonicization of another tonal center which doesn't necessarily result in a key change. How to tell the difference? Relative length of the shift, or better yet check in what key your true cadences occur. Traditionally cadences define keys.
So, you can mess with the I chord for a temporary shift. For example you can put a flat seventh on I (in roman numerals I would become V7/IV) for a change like C7-F. If that move wasn't followed by a cadence in F, probably it wouldn't be considered a key change.
You could add in the mode mixture idea too and try C7-fm - so that's messing with the tonic add borrowing a chord from the minor mode. Should darken the mood a lot. If you got back to C major quickly and ended the phrase in C major, it probably would not seem to be a key change. (I'm just throwing out some chord change ideas, you might have to play around with such changes to get a phrase that actually works. But I hope it's help illustrate the point.)
answered 19 mins ago
Michael Curtis
2,288315
edited 9 mins ago
answered 19 mins ago
Michael Curtis
2,288315
answered 19 mins ago
Michael Curtis
2,288315
answered 19 mins ago
Michael Curtis
2,288315
2,288315
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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Sounds like you can use any chords or any notes to play in any key. You can.
– Tim
2 hours ago
I can't use any chords (?) I thought only chords from parallel keys.
– foreyez
2 hours ago
1
Please, please, please stop trying to work from 'rules'. Although a lot of pieces will use maybe only three chords, there is no 'rule' that states other chords, not from that key or its parallel key may not be used. I play pieces in C major that include F# major. They work, but 'don't follow the rules'. Just go with the flow, and stop trying to straightjacket yourself. Please!
– Tim
2 hours ago
1
@Tim if we all just "went with the flow" then this site wouldn't be needed. The only guidance would be "meh, just use the chromatic scale to make music!" :>
– foreyez
2 hours ago
2
Who's talking about rules? The question is about if using "borrowed" chords or mode mixture results in a key change. A fine question.
– Michael Curtis
49 mins ago