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Can you awaken a sentinel raven (Raven queen patron)
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So I'm going through the raven queen patron abilities (for warlock), and it mentions that you get a spirit that uses all the raven's game statistics. Ravens have an INT of 2 which means that they can be targeted by the spell Awaken.
Normal familiars are specifically mentioned as not being beasts but no such mention has been made here (so far).
Does this mean that I could have a friendly Druid cast Awaken on my raven to improve its capabilities?
Also would this allow me to converse with people that are far away from me, as I could telepathically speak to the raven and then the 'awoken' raven can speak one language?
dnd-5e spells warlock unearthed-arcana
edited 3 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
asked 5 hours ago
casualplayer
1276
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up vote
4
down vote
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So I'm going through the raven queen patron abilities (for warlock), and it mentions that you get a spirit that uses all the raven's game statistics. Ravens have an INT of 2 which means that they can be targeted by the spell Awaken.
Normal familiars are specifically mentioned as not being beasts but no such mention has been made here (so far).
Does this mean that I could have a friendly Druid cast Awaken on my raven to improve its capabilities?
Also would this allow me to converse with people that are far away from me, as I could telepathically speak to the raven and then the 'awoken' raven can speak one language?
dnd-5e spells warlock unearthed-arcana
edited 3 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
asked 5 hours ago
casualplayer
1276
New contributor
casualplayer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Related to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/134605/…
– PJRZ
4 hours ago
@PJRZ i specifically mentioned that the find familiar spell mentions that it is not a beast. The raven given by the raven queen has no mention of this fact. Any question linked to the 'Find familiar' spell does not help in this case
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
6
@casualcoder it's a related question of interest - someone reading about this may also be interested in how the spell applies to normal familiars. We understand that these circumstances are different, which is why it's not noted as a duplicate.
– Carcer
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
So I'm going through the raven queen patron abilities (for warlock), and it mentions that you get a spirit that uses all the raven's game statistics. Ravens have an INT of 2 which means that they can be targeted by the spell Awaken.
Normal familiars are specifically mentioned as not being beasts but no such mention has been made here (so far).
Does this mean that I could have a friendly Druid cast Awaken on my raven to improve its capabilities?
Also would this allow me to converse with people that are far away from me, as I could telepathically speak to the raven and then the 'awoken' raven can speak one language?
dnd-5e spells warlock unearthed-arcana
edited 3 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
asked 5 hours ago
casualplayer
1276
New contributor
casualplayer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
So I'm going through the raven queen patron abilities (for warlock), and it mentions that you get a spirit that uses all the raven's game statistics. Ravens have an INT of 2 which means that they can be targeted by the spell Awaken.
Normal familiars are specifically mentioned as not being beasts but no such mention has been made here (so far).
Does this mean that I could have a friendly Druid cast Awaken on my raven to improve its capabilities?
Also would this allow me to converse with people that are far away from me, as I could telepathically speak to the raven and then the 'awoken' raven can speak one language?
dnd-5e spells warlock unearthed-arcana
dnd-5e spells warlock unearthed-arcana
edited 3 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
asked 5 hours ago
casualplayer
1276
New contributor
casualplayer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 3 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
asked 5 hours ago
casualplayer
1276
New contributor
casualplayer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 3 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
edited 3 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
edited 3 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
6,97943165
asked 5 hours ago
casualplayer
1276
New contributor
casualplayer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 5 hours ago
casualplayer
1276
asked 5 hours ago
casualplayer
1276
1276
New contributor
casualplayer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
casualplayer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
casualplayer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Related to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/134605/…
– PJRZ
4 hours ago
@PJRZ i specifically mentioned that the find familiar spell mentions that it is not a beast. The raven given by the raven queen has no mention of this fact. Any question linked to the 'Find familiar' spell does not help in this case
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
6
@casualcoder it's a related question of interest - someone reading about this may also be interested in how the spell applies to normal familiars. We understand that these circumstances are different, which is why it's not noted as a duplicate.
– Carcer
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
Related to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/134605/…
– PJRZ
4 hours ago
@PJRZ i specifically mentioned that the find familiar spell mentions that it is not a beast. The raven given by the raven queen has no mention of this fact. Any question linked to the 'Find familiar' spell does not help in this case
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
6
@casualcoder it's a related question of interest - someone reading about this may also be interested in how the spell applies to normal familiars. We understand that these circumstances are different, which is why it's not noted as a duplicate.
– Carcer
4 hours ago
Related to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/134605/…
– PJRZ
4 hours ago
Related to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/134605/…
– PJRZ
4 hours ago
@PJRZ i specifically mentioned that the find familiar spell mentions that it is not a beast. The raven given by the raven queen has no mention of this fact. Any question linked to the 'Find familiar' spell does not help in this case
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
@PJRZ i specifically mentioned that the find familiar spell mentions that it is not a beast. The raven given by the raven queen has no mention of this fact. Any question linked to the 'Find familiar' spell does not help in this case
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
6
6
@casualcoder it's a related question of interest - someone reading about this may also be interested in how the spell applies to normal familiars. We understand that these circumstances are different, which is why it's not noted as a duplicate.
– Carcer
4 hours ago
@casualcoder it's a related question of interest - someone reading about this may also be interested in how the spell applies to normal familiars. We understand that these circumstances are different, which is why it's not noted as a duplicate.
– Carcer
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
The Sentinel Raven should probably not be a valid target for Awaken.
1. It's arguably a valid target, RAW
The Awaken spell states that the caster must:
touch a Huge or smaller beast or plant. SRD p. 120
The Sentinel Raven is a 'spirit sent by the Raven Queen to watch over you'. That 'spirit' 'assumes the form and game statistics of a raven' (Unearthed Arcana: Warlock & Wizard p. 2).
However, unlike familiars provided by the Find Familiar spell there is no explicit statement that the Sentinel Raven is not a beast. So it could be inferred that there is a loophole here that, RAW, allows the casting of Awaken on the Sentinel Raven.
When something takes on the game statistics of something else, that is normally considered to include the creature's entire stat block, bar anything that's been explicitly excluded. In this case that would include the Raven's status as a 'Tiny beast' (SRD. p.387) making it a valid target for Awaken.
2. However, I wouldn't allow it in my game
For the reasons you've stated, and probably others, it would be extremely beneficial to be able to cast Awaken on a Sentinel Raven.
However, Unearthed Arcana (where this archetype comes from) is playtest material and has been released for people to use without having been fully balanced for normal play.
It's likely that the Sentinel Raven has not been deliberately omitted from the usual prohibition that deliberately prevents familiars being appropriate targets for Awaken. This is the kind of oversight that's often removed before publication.
So, allowing Awaken to be cast on a Sentinel Raven in your game, while arguably not against RAW, could be a major source of imbalance.
It would certainly make Raven much more powerful than a normal familiar and so this loophole has arguably not been created deliberately. This is how I would rule it at my table, but you (or your DM) are welcome to rule as you wish at your own table.
edited 20 mins ago
T.J.L.
26.3k381142
answered 4 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
So its another one of those RAW vs RAI arguments.... ahh well i guess we will need to wait for the actual publications/erratas before this is cleared up. Thanks for outlining how it works with RAW. Now i guess its upto my DM.
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
@casualcoder It's kind of you to accept my answer so quickly - but please feel free to change your mind if later someone submits a different answer that you find more convincing.
– Tiggerous
4 hours ago
Currently as it stands your answer references the available material and makes comparisons to similar abilities, you have pointed out both why it does work RAW and why it should not be allowed. If another answer comes up at a later date with more up to date information I can make the change then, but for now this answer is the most appropriate and complete.
– casualplayer
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
The Sentinel Raven should probably not be a valid target for Awaken.
1. It's arguably a valid target, RAW
The Awaken spell states that the caster must:
touch a Huge or smaller beast or plant. SRD p. 120
The Sentinel Raven is a 'spirit sent by the Raven Queen to watch over you'. That 'spirit' 'assumes the form and game statistics of a raven' (Unearthed Arcana: Warlock & Wizard p. 2).
However, unlike familiars provided by the Find Familiar spell there is no explicit statement that the Sentinel Raven is not a beast. So it could be inferred that there is a loophole here that, RAW, allows the casting of Awaken on the Sentinel Raven.
When something takes on the game statistics of something else, that is normally considered to include the creature's entire stat block, bar anything that's been explicitly excluded. In this case that would include the Raven's status as a 'Tiny beast' (SRD. p.387) making it a valid target for Awaken.
2. However, I wouldn't allow it in my game
For the reasons you've stated, and probably others, it would be extremely beneficial to be able to cast Awaken on a Sentinel Raven.
However, Unearthed Arcana (where this archetype comes from) is playtest material and has been released for people to use without having been fully balanced for normal play.
It's likely that the Sentinel Raven has not been deliberately omitted from the usual prohibition that deliberately prevents familiars being appropriate targets for Awaken. This is the kind of oversight that's often removed before publication.
So, allowing Awaken to be cast on a Sentinel Raven in your game, while arguably not against RAW, could be a major source of imbalance.
It would certainly make Raven much more powerful than a normal familiar and so this loophole has arguably not been created deliberately. This is how I would rule it at my table, but you (or your DM) are welcome to rule as you wish at your own table.
edited 20 mins ago
T.J.L.
26.3k381142
answered 4 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
So its another one of those RAW vs RAI arguments.... ahh well i guess we will need to wait for the actual publications/erratas before this is cleared up. Thanks for outlining how it works with RAW. Now i guess its upto my DM.
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
@casualcoder It's kind of you to accept my answer so quickly - but please feel free to change your mind if later someone submits a different answer that you find more convincing.
– Tiggerous
4 hours ago
Currently as it stands your answer references the available material and makes comparisons to similar abilities, you have pointed out both why it does work RAW and why it should not be allowed. If another answer comes up at a later date with more up to date information I can make the change then, but for now this answer is the most appropriate and complete.
– casualplayer
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
The Sentinel Raven should probably not be a valid target for Awaken.
1. It's arguably a valid target, RAW
The Awaken spell states that the caster must:
touch a Huge or smaller beast or plant. SRD p. 120
The Sentinel Raven is a 'spirit sent by the Raven Queen to watch over you'. That 'spirit' 'assumes the form and game statistics of a raven' (Unearthed Arcana: Warlock & Wizard p. 2).
However, unlike familiars provided by the Find Familiar spell there is no explicit statement that the Sentinel Raven is not a beast. So it could be inferred that there is a loophole here that, RAW, allows the casting of Awaken on the Sentinel Raven.
When something takes on the game statistics of something else, that is normally considered to include the creature's entire stat block, bar anything that's been explicitly excluded. In this case that would include the Raven's status as a 'Tiny beast' (SRD. p.387) making it a valid target for Awaken.
2. However, I wouldn't allow it in my game
For the reasons you've stated, and probably others, it would be extremely beneficial to be able to cast Awaken on a Sentinel Raven.
However, Unearthed Arcana (where this archetype comes from) is playtest material and has been released for people to use without having been fully balanced for normal play.
It's likely that the Sentinel Raven has not been deliberately omitted from the usual prohibition that deliberately prevents familiars being appropriate targets for Awaken. This is the kind of oversight that's often removed before publication.
So, allowing Awaken to be cast on a Sentinel Raven in your game, while arguably not against RAW, could be a major source of imbalance.
It would certainly make Raven much more powerful than a normal familiar and so this loophole has arguably not been created deliberately. This is how I would rule it at my table, but you (or your DM) are welcome to rule as you wish at your own table.
edited 20 mins ago
T.J.L.
26.3k381142
answered 4 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
So its another one of those RAW vs RAI arguments.... ahh well i guess we will need to wait for the actual publications/erratas before this is cleared up. Thanks for outlining how it works with RAW. Now i guess its upto my DM.
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
@casualcoder It's kind of you to accept my answer so quickly - but please feel free to change your mind if later someone submits a different answer that you find more convincing.
– Tiggerous
4 hours ago
Currently as it stands your answer references the available material and makes comparisons to similar abilities, you have pointed out both why it does work RAW and why it should not be allowed. If another answer comes up at a later date with more up to date information I can make the change then, but for now this answer is the most appropriate and complete.
– casualplayer
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
The Sentinel Raven should probably not be a valid target for Awaken.
1. It's arguably a valid target, RAW
The Awaken spell states that the caster must:
touch a Huge or smaller beast or plant. SRD p. 120
The Sentinel Raven is a 'spirit sent by the Raven Queen to watch over you'. That 'spirit' 'assumes the form and game statistics of a raven' (Unearthed Arcana: Warlock & Wizard p. 2).
However, unlike familiars provided by the Find Familiar spell there is no explicit statement that the Sentinel Raven is not a beast. So it could be inferred that there is a loophole here that, RAW, allows the casting of Awaken on the Sentinel Raven.
When something takes on the game statistics of something else, that is normally considered to include the creature's entire stat block, bar anything that's been explicitly excluded. In this case that would include the Raven's status as a 'Tiny beast' (SRD. p.387) making it a valid target for Awaken.
2. However, I wouldn't allow it in my game
For the reasons you've stated, and probably others, it would be extremely beneficial to be able to cast Awaken on a Sentinel Raven.
However, Unearthed Arcana (where this archetype comes from) is playtest material and has been released for people to use without having been fully balanced for normal play.
It's likely that the Sentinel Raven has not been deliberately omitted from the usual prohibition that deliberately prevents familiars being appropriate targets for Awaken. This is the kind of oversight that's often removed before publication.
So, allowing Awaken to be cast on a Sentinel Raven in your game, while arguably not against RAW, could be a major source of imbalance.
It would certainly make Raven much more powerful than a normal familiar and so this loophole has arguably not been created deliberately. This is how I would rule it at my table, but you (or your DM) are welcome to rule as you wish at your own table.
edited 20 mins ago
T.J.L.
26.3k381142
answered 4 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
The Sentinel Raven should probably not be a valid target for Awaken.
1. It's arguably a valid target, RAW
The Awaken spell states that the caster must:
touch a Huge or smaller beast or plant. SRD p. 120
The Sentinel Raven is a 'spirit sent by the Raven Queen to watch over you'. That 'spirit' 'assumes the form and game statistics of a raven' (Unearthed Arcana: Warlock & Wizard p. 2).
However, unlike familiars provided by the Find Familiar spell there is no explicit statement that the Sentinel Raven is not a beast. So it could be inferred that there is a loophole here that, RAW, allows the casting of Awaken on the Sentinel Raven.
When something takes on the game statistics of something else, that is normally considered to include the creature's entire stat block, bar anything that's been explicitly excluded. In this case that would include the Raven's status as a 'Tiny beast' (SRD. p.387) making it a valid target for Awaken.
2. However, I wouldn't allow it in my game
For the reasons you've stated, and probably others, it would be extremely beneficial to be able to cast Awaken on a Sentinel Raven.
However, Unearthed Arcana (where this archetype comes from) is playtest material and has been released for people to use without having been fully balanced for normal play.
It's likely that the Sentinel Raven has not been deliberately omitted from the usual prohibition that deliberately prevents familiars being appropriate targets for Awaken. This is the kind of oversight that's often removed before publication.
So, allowing Awaken to be cast on a Sentinel Raven in your game, while arguably not against RAW, could be a major source of imbalance.
It would certainly make Raven much more powerful than a normal familiar and so this loophole has arguably not been created deliberately. This is how I would rule it at my table, but you (or your DM) are welcome to rule as you wish at your own table.
edited 20 mins ago
T.J.L.
26.3k381142
answered 4 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
edited 20 mins ago
T.J.L.
26.3k381142
edited 20 mins ago
T.J.L.
26.3k381142
edited 20 mins ago
T.J.L.
26.3k381142
26.3k381142
answered 4 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
answered 4 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
answered 4 hours ago
Tiggerous
6,97943165
6,97943165
So its another one of those RAW vs RAI arguments.... ahh well i guess we will need to wait for the actual publications/erratas before this is cleared up. Thanks for outlining how it works with RAW. Now i guess its upto my DM.
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
@casualcoder It's kind of you to accept my answer so quickly - but please feel free to change your mind if later someone submits a different answer that you find more convincing.
– Tiggerous
4 hours ago
Currently as it stands your answer references the available material and makes comparisons to similar abilities, you have pointed out both why it does work RAW and why it should not be allowed. If another answer comes up at a later date with more up to date information I can make the change then, but for now this answer is the most appropriate and complete.
– casualplayer
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
So its another one of those RAW vs RAI arguments.... ahh well i guess we will need to wait for the actual publications/erratas before this is cleared up. Thanks for outlining how it works with RAW. Now i guess its upto my DM.
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
@casualcoder It's kind of you to accept my answer so quickly - but please feel free to change your mind if later someone submits a different answer that you find more convincing.
– Tiggerous
4 hours ago
Currently as it stands your answer references the available material and makes comparisons to similar abilities, you have pointed out both why it does work RAW and why it should not be allowed. If another answer comes up at a later date with more up to date information I can make the change then, but for now this answer is the most appropriate and complete.
– casualplayer
3 hours ago
So its another one of those RAW vs RAI arguments.... ahh well i guess we will need to wait for the actual publications/erratas before this is cleared up. Thanks for outlining how it works with RAW. Now i guess its upto my DM.
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
So its another one of those RAW vs RAI arguments.... ahh well i guess we will need to wait for the actual publications/erratas before this is cleared up. Thanks for outlining how it works with RAW. Now i guess its upto my DM.
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
@casualcoder It's kind of you to accept my answer so quickly - but please feel free to change your mind if later someone submits a different answer that you find more convincing.
– Tiggerous
4 hours ago
@casualcoder It's kind of you to accept my answer so quickly - but please feel free to change your mind if later someone submits a different answer that you find more convincing.
– Tiggerous
4 hours ago
Currently as it stands your answer references the available material and makes comparisons to similar abilities, you have pointed out both why it does work RAW and why it should not be allowed. If another answer comes up at a later date with more up to date information I can make the change then, but for now this answer is the most appropriate and complete.
– casualplayer
3 hours ago
Currently as it stands your answer references the available material and makes comparisons to similar abilities, you have pointed out both why it does work RAW and why it should not be allowed. If another answer comes up at a later date with more up to date information I can make the change then, but for now this answer is the most appropriate and complete.
– casualplayer
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
casualplayer is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
casualplayer is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
casualplayer is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Related to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/134605/…
– PJRZ
4 hours ago
@PJRZ i specifically mentioned that the find familiar spell mentions that it is not a beast. The raven given by the raven queen has no mention of this fact. Any question linked to the 'Find familiar' spell does not help in this case
– casualplayer
4 hours ago
6
@casualcoder it's a related question of interest - someone reading about this may also be interested in how the spell applies to normal familiars. We understand that these circumstances are different, which is why it's not noted as a duplicate.
– Carcer
4 hours ago