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Need advice about changing character's gender
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I had this idea for a story/ novel that I was very excited about, but also very worried about. The idea had a plot where the character development plot and themes all grow and go together, something I love and think makes the best stories and that I've been striving for (this is what I am excited about). However, two of the main characters are bisexual men who fall in love and I know that lots of people are angry about women writing those types of characters. I'm not trying to appropriate or fetishize anyone, the love story is a big part of the plot, but there is also growing through college starting a business society changing from late 60's to modern time, trying to make the world better, fighting evil cults, magical realism, and other relationships. There is a lot of family of origin issues, deep themes, humor, a female main lead (and her daughter). There is some of the dreaded forbidden love, because they are trying to succeed in the late 60's and family issues, but they also come out part way to their mother's and siblings and friend's most of them. It isn't the point of the story just a small piece. I could change one of the character's to female and make it work though I would have to change the plot quite a bit, and both characters are based on 4 guys I know, but maybe I should just to avoid pissing people off.
characters plot gender
edited 1 hour ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
asked 1 hour ago
worried writer
112
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up vote
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I had this idea for a story/ novel that I was very excited about, but also very worried about. The idea had a plot where the character development plot and themes all grow and go together, something I love and think makes the best stories and that I've been striving for (this is what I am excited about). However, two of the main characters are bisexual men who fall in love and I know that lots of people are angry about women writing those types of characters. I'm not trying to appropriate or fetishize anyone, the love story is a big part of the plot, but there is also growing through college starting a business society changing from late 60's to modern time, trying to make the world better, fighting evil cults, magical realism, and other relationships. There is a lot of family of origin issues, deep themes, humor, a female main lead (and her daughter). There is some of the dreaded forbidden love, because they are trying to succeed in the late 60's and family issues, but they also come out part way to their mother's and siblings and friend's most of them. It isn't the point of the story just a small piece. I could change one of the character's to female and make it work though I would have to change the plot quite a bit, and both characters are based on 4 guys I know, but maybe I should just to avoid pissing people off.
characters plot gender
edited 1 hour ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
asked 1 hour ago
worried writer
112
New contributor
worried writer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I had this idea for a story/ novel that I was very excited about, but also very worried about. The idea had a plot where the character development plot and themes all grow and go together, something I love and think makes the best stories and that I've been striving for (this is what I am excited about). However, two of the main characters are bisexual men who fall in love and I know that lots of people are angry about women writing those types of characters. I'm not trying to appropriate or fetishize anyone, the love story is a big part of the plot, but there is also growing through college starting a business society changing from late 60's to modern time, trying to make the world better, fighting evil cults, magical realism, and other relationships. There is a lot of family of origin issues, deep themes, humor, a female main lead (and her daughter). There is some of the dreaded forbidden love, because they are trying to succeed in the late 60's and family issues, but they also come out part way to their mother's and siblings and friend's most of them. It isn't the point of the story just a small piece. I could change one of the character's to female and make it work though I would have to change the plot quite a bit, and both characters are based on 4 guys I know, but maybe I should just to avoid pissing people off.
characters plot gender
edited 1 hour ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
asked 1 hour ago
worried writer
112
New contributor
worried writer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I had this idea for a story/ novel that I was very excited about, but also very worried about. The idea had a plot where the character development plot and themes all grow and go together, something I love and think makes the best stories and that I've been striving for (this is what I am excited about). However, two of the main characters are bisexual men who fall in love and I know that lots of people are angry about women writing those types of characters. I'm not trying to appropriate or fetishize anyone, the love story is a big part of the plot, but there is also growing through college starting a business society changing from late 60's to modern time, trying to make the world better, fighting evil cults, magical realism, and other relationships. There is a lot of family of origin issues, deep themes, humor, a female main lead (and her daughter). There is some of the dreaded forbidden love, because they are trying to succeed in the late 60's and family issues, but they also come out part way to their mother's and siblings and friend's most of them. It isn't the point of the story just a small piece. I could change one of the character's to female and make it work though I would have to change the plot quite a bit, and both characters are based on 4 guys I know, but maybe I should just to avoid pissing people off.
characters plot gender
characters plot gender
edited 1 hour ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
asked 1 hour ago
worried writer
112
New contributor
worried writer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 1 hour ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
asked 1 hour ago
worried writer
112
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worried writer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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edited 1 hour ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
edited 1 hour ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
edited 1 hour ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
20.6k353119
asked 1 hour ago
worried writer
112
New contributor
worried writer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 1 hour ago
worried writer
112
asked 1 hour ago
worried writer
112
112
New contributor
worried writer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
worried writer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
worried writer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
All writers are of one gender, and one sexual orientation, and in order for their stories to reflect real life, they have to learn to write from the POV of other genders and other sexual orientations.
Don't be sexist on yourself, male heterosexual writers have written about homosexual males and homosexual females. Heck, people write convincingly about prostitutes, hit men, rape victims and serial killers and master thieves that they have never actually been. And medieval wizards, extra-terrestrials, kings and warriors.
Don't be afraid of writing what you want and what you think makes your story the strongest. Changing one of your characters might make your story feel unrealistic, because other characters in your book would not react the same to a female, and the character in question might react differently as a female, and these disparities can make the plot feel forced or unnatural.
My advice is leave it alone, and don't worry about selling to an audience that judges you on anything other than the quality of your writing and the quality of the story.
You might lose some sales to the judgy, but you would likely lose MORE sales by straining to fit a woman into the role of a bisexual male, and forcing the partner as a heterosexual male instead of a bisexual male. I believe the necessary changes in mindset and attitude (and presumably the loss of social tensions) would make this "not their story" anymore. The story was written for and belongs to two bisexual men in love, not a heterosexual couple in love.
answered 1 hour ago
Amadeus
41.4k250133
thank you. I feel quite a bit better
– worried writer
56 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Why worry about what some might think if changing the gender of a character damages your story. Write it as you want it and, provided you don’t hit people over the head with a 2x4 when it comes to gender and orientation, most should be fine with it.
You are writing the story you are writing, so write it.
I remember reading a book where the characters were homosexual and, until the author hit me over the head with it, I was enjoying the read. Make it part of who they are, but not who they are and you will be fine.
answered 1 hour ago
Rasdashan
961314
thank you. I'm feeling less anxious
– worried writer
57 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
So, you are concerned about representing a minority in your story, because you do not belong to that minority. Following the same logic, men shouldn't write about women, WASP Americans shouldn't write about anyone of different religion or skin colour, and only people with disabilities should write about people with disabilities, preferably with their particular disability. That's not right, is it? We want diversity. If we follow the above logic, we appear to be getting the opposite.
Do not be afraid to give people representation. Indeed, consider the example of Les Misérables: Victor Hugo was neither an illiterate worker condemned to hard labour for stealing a loaf of bread, nor an ex-convict whom society wouldn't let rebuild his life, nor a young woman with an illegitimate child. He was a rich and famous, privileged, white male writer. But his book made a real difference, in public awareness and in legislature.
answered 59 mins ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
Thank you. I've just read so much hate at people that tr to write diversity. I remember hearing an NPR story that mentions a YA author that wrote a positive story about Muslims and wasn't Muslim. Her book went from beign nominated for a award to selling nothing because peopel were so angry at a Non Muslim writign abotu Muslims. She was lambasted and vilified. I think seh got some small partof the novel wrong.
– worried writer
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I know that lots of people are angry about women writing those types of characters. I'm not trying to appropriate or fetishize anyone
There is no clear line here, but you can always "test" your characters and scenes in the same way male authors are encouraged to "test" their female characters – ie: do they have agency, is their sexuality in service of plot/character or just titillation, are they stereotypes/monotypes, is one "good" (rewarded for conforming to society's standards) and the other "bad" (punished for non-conformity), do they talk about anything outside of who they are dating or in love with (Bechdel Test), etc.
I could change one of the character's to female and make it work though I would have to change the plot quite a bit, and both characters are based on 4 guys I know, but maybe I should just to avoid pissing people off.
I understand these are not the main character, but supporting characters, so...
- How much would it change the plot to keep them bisexual and change both to women?
- What if they are bisexual male and female, but their "normal" is
homosexual (a sub-culture or neighborhood which existed in the late
1960s in many cities)? - What if one is homosexual, the other bisexual, and this causes
ideological problems within their relationship? - What if they both start as bisexual, then drift towards homosexual
and heterosexual respectively? - What if one is radical, the other conservative? What if one is out and the other doesn't care to be?
- What if they are different races, religions, or economic class?
I think you get the idea. There are endless ways you could alter them. Each would require a little re-tooling, but does it make any difference to their actual character – what they think and how they approach problems?
The truth is, we don't have any information about these 2 other than they fall in love, and eventually have a coming out scene to their mothers. Needless to say you are going to have to give them more substance than just those clichés, which are modern interpretations of "normal" for homosexuality-only. Why would bisexual men tell their families in the 1960s, when homosexuality could get you arrested, fired, and even force-medicated? Would they even identify with "out" homosexuals, or would they consider themselves a kind of "free love" that doesn't need to be defined?
On a side note, plenty of witch cults and pagan temples were de facto bisexual, at least ceremoniously. Sex magic was just as big in the '60s as any other decade.
I think your heart is in the right place, but based on the brief description I can see where some gay and especially bisexual men would feel you are not representing them as real people, certainly not behaving realistically for the time period.
Create the characters first. Understand who they are and what motivates them as people – especially what makes them different from one other – and then build the relationship between them.
If your character arcs can survive gender/race/sexuality/class changing (with minor adjustments) and their motives/actions still make sense, you have nothing to worry about because they are real people. But if the character falls apart by changing their gender/race/sexuality/class then you probably have shallow stereotypes.
answered 10 mins ago
wetcircuit
4,910730
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
All writers are of one gender, and one sexual orientation, and in order for their stories to reflect real life, they have to learn to write from the POV of other genders and other sexual orientations.
Don't be sexist on yourself, male heterosexual writers have written about homosexual males and homosexual females. Heck, people write convincingly about prostitutes, hit men, rape victims and serial killers and master thieves that they have never actually been. And medieval wizards, extra-terrestrials, kings and warriors.
Don't be afraid of writing what you want and what you think makes your story the strongest. Changing one of your characters might make your story feel unrealistic, because other characters in your book would not react the same to a female, and the character in question might react differently as a female, and these disparities can make the plot feel forced or unnatural.
My advice is leave it alone, and don't worry about selling to an audience that judges you on anything other than the quality of your writing and the quality of the story.
You might lose some sales to the judgy, but you would likely lose MORE sales by straining to fit a woman into the role of a bisexual male, and forcing the partner as a heterosexual male instead of a bisexual male. I believe the necessary changes in mindset and attitude (and presumably the loss of social tensions) would make this "not their story" anymore. The story was written for and belongs to two bisexual men in love, not a heterosexual couple in love.
answered 1 hour ago
Amadeus
41.4k250133
thank you. I feel quite a bit better
– worried writer
56 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
All writers are of one gender, and one sexual orientation, and in order for their stories to reflect real life, they have to learn to write from the POV of other genders and other sexual orientations.
Don't be sexist on yourself, male heterosexual writers have written about homosexual males and homosexual females. Heck, people write convincingly about prostitutes, hit men, rape victims and serial killers and master thieves that they have never actually been. And medieval wizards, extra-terrestrials, kings and warriors.
Don't be afraid of writing what you want and what you think makes your story the strongest. Changing one of your characters might make your story feel unrealistic, because other characters in your book would not react the same to a female, and the character in question might react differently as a female, and these disparities can make the plot feel forced or unnatural.
My advice is leave it alone, and don't worry about selling to an audience that judges you on anything other than the quality of your writing and the quality of the story.
You might lose some sales to the judgy, but you would likely lose MORE sales by straining to fit a woman into the role of a bisexual male, and forcing the partner as a heterosexual male instead of a bisexual male. I believe the necessary changes in mindset and attitude (and presumably the loss of social tensions) would make this "not their story" anymore. The story was written for and belongs to two bisexual men in love, not a heterosexual couple in love.
answered 1 hour ago
Amadeus
41.4k250133
thank you. I feel quite a bit better
– worried writer
56 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
All writers are of one gender, and one sexual orientation, and in order for their stories to reflect real life, they have to learn to write from the POV of other genders and other sexual orientations.
Don't be sexist on yourself, male heterosexual writers have written about homosexual males and homosexual females. Heck, people write convincingly about prostitutes, hit men, rape victims and serial killers and master thieves that they have never actually been. And medieval wizards, extra-terrestrials, kings and warriors.
Don't be afraid of writing what you want and what you think makes your story the strongest. Changing one of your characters might make your story feel unrealistic, because other characters in your book would not react the same to a female, and the character in question might react differently as a female, and these disparities can make the plot feel forced or unnatural.
My advice is leave it alone, and don't worry about selling to an audience that judges you on anything other than the quality of your writing and the quality of the story.
You might lose some sales to the judgy, but you would likely lose MORE sales by straining to fit a woman into the role of a bisexual male, and forcing the partner as a heterosexual male instead of a bisexual male. I believe the necessary changes in mindset and attitude (and presumably the loss of social tensions) would make this "not their story" anymore. The story was written for and belongs to two bisexual men in love, not a heterosexual couple in love.
answered 1 hour ago
Amadeus
41.4k250133
All writers are of one gender, and one sexual orientation, and in order for their stories to reflect real life, they have to learn to write from the POV of other genders and other sexual orientations.
Don't be sexist on yourself, male heterosexual writers have written about homosexual males and homosexual females. Heck, people write convincingly about prostitutes, hit men, rape victims and serial killers and master thieves that they have never actually been. And medieval wizards, extra-terrestrials, kings and warriors.
Don't be afraid of writing what you want and what you think makes your story the strongest. Changing one of your characters might make your story feel unrealistic, because other characters in your book would not react the same to a female, and the character in question might react differently as a female, and these disparities can make the plot feel forced or unnatural.
My advice is leave it alone, and don't worry about selling to an audience that judges you on anything other than the quality of your writing and the quality of the story.
You might lose some sales to the judgy, but you would likely lose MORE sales by straining to fit a woman into the role of a bisexual male, and forcing the partner as a heterosexual male instead of a bisexual male. I believe the necessary changes in mindset and attitude (and presumably the loss of social tensions) would make this "not their story" anymore. The story was written for and belongs to two bisexual men in love, not a heterosexual couple in love.
answered 1 hour ago
Amadeus
41.4k250133
answered 1 hour ago
Amadeus
41.4k250133
answered 1 hour ago
Amadeus
41.4k250133
answered 1 hour ago
Amadeus
41.4k250133
41.4k250133
thank you. I feel quite a bit better
– worried writer
56 mins ago
add a comment |Â
thank you. I feel quite a bit better
– worried writer
56 mins ago
thank you. I feel quite a bit better
– worried writer
56 mins ago
thank you. I feel quite a bit better
– worried writer
56 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Why worry about what some might think if changing the gender of a character damages your story. Write it as you want it and, provided you don’t hit people over the head with a 2x4 when it comes to gender and orientation, most should be fine with it.
You are writing the story you are writing, so write it.
I remember reading a book where the characters were homosexual and, until the author hit me over the head with it, I was enjoying the read. Make it part of who they are, but not who they are and you will be fine.
answered 1 hour ago
Rasdashan
961314
thank you. I'm feeling less anxious
– worried writer
57 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Why worry about what some might think if changing the gender of a character damages your story. Write it as you want it and, provided you don’t hit people over the head with a 2x4 when it comes to gender and orientation, most should be fine with it.
You are writing the story you are writing, so write it.
I remember reading a book where the characters were homosexual and, until the author hit me over the head with it, I was enjoying the read. Make it part of who they are, but not who they are and you will be fine.
answered 1 hour ago
Rasdashan
961314
thank you. I'm feeling less anxious
– worried writer
57 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Why worry about what some might think if changing the gender of a character damages your story. Write it as you want it and, provided you don’t hit people over the head with a 2x4 when it comes to gender and orientation, most should be fine with it.
You are writing the story you are writing, so write it.
I remember reading a book where the characters were homosexual and, until the author hit me over the head with it, I was enjoying the read. Make it part of who they are, but not who they are and you will be fine.
answered 1 hour ago
Rasdashan
961314
Why worry about what some might think if changing the gender of a character damages your story. Write it as you want it and, provided you don’t hit people over the head with a 2x4 when it comes to gender and orientation, most should be fine with it.
You are writing the story you are writing, so write it.
I remember reading a book where the characters were homosexual and, until the author hit me over the head with it, I was enjoying the read. Make it part of who they are, but not who they are and you will be fine.
answered 1 hour ago
Rasdashan
961314
answered 1 hour ago
Rasdashan
961314
answered 1 hour ago
Rasdashan
961314
answered 1 hour ago
Rasdashan
961314
961314
thank you. I'm feeling less anxious
– worried writer
57 mins ago
add a comment |Â
thank you. I'm feeling less anxious
– worried writer
57 mins ago
thank you. I'm feeling less anxious
– worried writer
57 mins ago
thank you. I'm feeling less anxious
– worried writer
57 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
So, you are concerned about representing a minority in your story, because you do not belong to that minority. Following the same logic, men shouldn't write about women, WASP Americans shouldn't write about anyone of different religion or skin colour, and only people with disabilities should write about people with disabilities, preferably with their particular disability. That's not right, is it? We want diversity. If we follow the above logic, we appear to be getting the opposite.
Do not be afraid to give people representation. Indeed, consider the example of Les Misérables: Victor Hugo was neither an illiterate worker condemned to hard labour for stealing a loaf of bread, nor an ex-convict whom society wouldn't let rebuild his life, nor a young woman with an illegitimate child. He was a rich and famous, privileged, white male writer. But his book made a real difference, in public awareness and in legislature.
answered 59 mins ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
Thank you. I've just read so much hate at people that tr to write diversity. I remember hearing an NPR story that mentions a YA author that wrote a positive story about Muslims and wasn't Muslim. Her book went from beign nominated for a award to selling nothing because peopel were so angry at a Non Muslim writign abotu Muslims. She was lambasted and vilified. I think seh got some small partof the novel wrong.
– worried writer
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
So, you are concerned about representing a minority in your story, because you do not belong to that minority. Following the same logic, men shouldn't write about women, WASP Americans shouldn't write about anyone of different religion or skin colour, and only people with disabilities should write about people with disabilities, preferably with their particular disability. That's not right, is it? We want diversity. If we follow the above logic, we appear to be getting the opposite.
Do not be afraid to give people representation. Indeed, consider the example of Les Misérables: Victor Hugo was neither an illiterate worker condemned to hard labour for stealing a loaf of bread, nor an ex-convict whom society wouldn't let rebuild his life, nor a young woman with an illegitimate child. He was a rich and famous, privileged, white male writer. But his book made a real difference, in public awareness and in legislature.
answered 59 mins ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
Thank you. I've just read so much hate at people that tr to write diversity. I remember hearing an NPR story that mentions a YA author that wrote a positive story about Muslims and wasn't Muslim. Her book went from beign nominated for a award to selling nothing because peopel were so angry at a Non Muslim writign abotu Muslims. She was lambasted and vilified. I think seh got some small partof the novel wrong.
– worried writer
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
So, you are concerned about representing a minority in your story, because you do not belong to that minority. Following the same logic, men shouldn't write about women, WASP Americans shouldn't write about anyone of different religion or skin colour, and only people with disabilities should write about people with disabilities, preferably with their particular disability. That's not right, is it? We want diversity. If we follow the above logic, we appear to be getting the opposite.
Do not be afraid to give people representation. Indeed, consider the example of Les Misérables: Victor Hugo was neither an illiterate worker condemned to hard labour for stealing a loaf of bread, nor an ex-convict whom society wouldn't let rebuild his life, nor a young woman with an illegitimate child. He was a rich and famous, privileged, white male writer. But his book made a real difference, in public awareness and in legislature.
answered 59 mins ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
So, you are concerned about representing a minority in your story, because you do not belong to that minority. Following the same logic, men shouldn't write about women, WASP Americans shouldn't write about anyone of different religion or skin colour, and only people with disabilities should write about people with disabilities, preferably with their particular disability. That's not right, is it? We want diversity. If we follow the above logic, we appear to be getting the opposite.
Do not be afraid to give people representation. Indeed, consider the example of Les Misérables: Victor Hugo was neither an illiterate worker condemned to hard labour for stealing a loaf of bread, nor an ex-convict whom society wouldn't let rebuild his life, nor a young woman with an illegitimate child. He was a rich and famous, privileged, white male writer. But his book made a real difference, in public awareness and in legislature.
answered 59 mins ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
answered 59 mins ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
answered 59 mins ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
answered 59 mins ago
Galastel
20.6k353119
20.6k353119
Thank you. I've just read so much hate at people that tr to write diversity. I remember hearing an NPR story that mentions a YA author that wrote a positive story about Muslims and wasn't Muslim. Her book went from beign nominated for a award to selling nothing because peopel were so angry at a Non Muslim writign abotu Muslims. She was lambasted and vilified. I think seh got some small partof the novel wrong.
– worried writer
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Thank you. I've just read so much hate at people that tr to write diversity. I remember hearing an NPR story that mentions a YA author that wrote a positive story about Muslims and wasn't Muslim. Her book went from beign nominated for a award to selling nothing because peopel were so angry at a Non Muslim writign abotu Muslims. She was lambasted and vilified. I think seh got some small partof the novel wrong.
– worried writer
46 mins ago
Thank you. I've just read so much hate at people that tr to write diversity. I remember hearing an NPR story that mentions a YA author that wrote a positive story about Muslims and wasn't Muslim. Her book went from beign nominated for a award to selling nothing because peopel were so angry at a Non Muslim writign abotu Muslims. She was lambasted and vilified. I think seh got some small partof the novel wrong.
– worried writer
46 mins ago
Thank you. I've just read so much hate at people that tr to write diversity. I remember hearing an NPR story that mentions a YA author that wrote a positive story about Muslims and wasn't Muslim. Her book went from beign nominated for a award to selling nothing because peopel were so angry at a Non Muslim writign abotu Muslims. She was lambasted and vilified. I think seh got some small partof the novel wrong.
– worried writer
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I know that lots of people are angry about women writing those types of characters. I'm not trying to appropriate or fetishize anyone
There is no clear line here, but you can always "test" your characters and scenes in the same way male authors are encouraged to "test" their female characters – ie: do they have agency, is their sexuality in service of plot/character or just titillation, are they stereotypes/monotypes, is one "good" (rewarded for conforming to society's standards) and the other "bad" (punished for non-conformity), do they talk about anything outside of who they are dating or in love with (Bechdel Test), etc.
I could change one of the character's to female and make it work though I would have to change the plot quite a bit, and both characters are based on 4 guys I know, but maybe I should just to avoid pissing people off.
I understand these are not the main character, but supporting characters, so...
- How much would it change the plot to keep them bisexual and change both to women?
- What if they are bisexual male and female, but their "normal" is
homosexual (a sub-culture or neighborhood which existed in the late
1960s in many cities)? - What if one is homosexual, the other bisexual, and this causes
ideological problems within their relationship? - What if they both start as bisexual, then drift towards homosexual
and heterosexual respectively? - What if one is radical, the other conservative? What if one is out and the other doesn't care to be?
- What if they are different races, religions, or economic class?
I think you get the idea. There are endless ways you could alter them. Each would require a little re-tooling, but does it make any difference to their actual character – what they think and how they approach problems?
The truth is, we don't have any information about these 2 other than they fall in love, and eventually have a coming out scene to their mothers. Needless to say you are going to have to give them more substance than just those clichés, which are modern interpretations of "normal" for homosexuality-only. Why would bisexual men tell their families in the 1960s, when homosexuality could get you arrested, fired, and even force-medicated? Would they even identify with "out" homosexuals, or would they consider themselves a kind of "free love" that doesn't need to be defined?
On a side note, plenty of witch cults and pagan temples were de facto bisexual, at least ceremoniously. Sex magic was just as big in the '60s as any other decade.
I think your heart is in the right place, but based on the brief description I can see where some gay and especially bisexual men would feel you are not representing them as real people, certainly not behaving realistically for the time period.
Create the characters first. Understand who they are and what motivates them as people – especially what makes them different from one other – and then build the relationship between them.
If your character arcs can survive gender/race/sexuality/class changing (with minor adjustments) and their motives/actions still make sense, you have nothing to worry about because they are real people. But if the character falls apart by changing their gender/race/sexuality/class then you probably have shallow stereotypes.
answered 10 mins ago
wetcircuit
4,910730
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I know that lots of people are angry about women writing those types of characters. I'm not trying to appropriate or fetishize anyone
There is no clear line here, but you can always "test" your characters and scenes in the same way male authors are encouraged to "test" their female characters – ie: do they have agency, is their sexuality in service of plot/character or just titillation, are they stereotypes/monotypes, is one "good" (rewarded for conforming to society's standards) and the other "bad" (punished for non-conformity), do they talk about anything outside of who they are dating or in love with (Bechdel Test), etc.
I could change one of the character's to female and make it work though I would have to change the plot quite a bit, and both characters are based on 4 guys I know, but maybe I should just to avoid pissing people off.
I understand these are not the main character, but supporting characters, so...
- How much would it change the plot to keep them bisexual and change both to women?
- What if they are bisexual male and female, but their "normal" is
homosexual (a sub-culture or neighborhood which existed in the late
1960s in many cities)? - What if one is homosexual, the other bisexual, and this causes
ideological problems within their relationship? - What if they both start as bisexual, then drift towards homosexual
and heterosexual respectively? - What if one is radical, the other conservative? What if one is out and the other doesn't care to be?
- What if they are different races, religions, or economic class?
I think you get the idea. There are endless ways you could alter them. Each would require a little re-tooling, but does it make any difference to their actual character – what they think and how they approach problems?
The truth is, we don't have any information about these 2 other than they fall in love, and eventually have a coming out scene to their mothers. Needless to say you are going to have to give them more substance than just those clichés, which are modern interpretations of "normal" for homosexuality-only. Why would bisexual men tell their families in the 1960s, when homosexuality could get you arrested, fired, and even force-medicated? Would they even identify with "out" homosexuals, or would they consider themselves a kind of "free love" that doesn't need to be defined?
On a side note, plenty of witch cults and pagan temples were de facto bisexual, at least ceremoniously. Sex magic was just as big in the '60s as any other decade.
I think your heart is in the right place, but based on the brief description I can see where some gay and especially bisexual men would feel you are not representing them as real people, certainly not behaving realistically for the time period.
Create the characters first. Understand who they are and what motivates them as people – especially what makes them different from one other – and then build the relationship between them.
If your character arcs can survive gender/race/sexuality/class changing (with minor adjustments) and their motives/actions still make sense, you have nothing to worry about because they are real people. But if the character falls apart by changing their gender/race/sexuality/class then you probably have shallow stereotypes.
answered 10 mins ago
wetcircuit
4,910730
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I know that lots of people are angry about women writing those types of characters. I'm not trying to appropriate or fetishize anyone
There is no clear line here, but you can always "test" your characters and scenes in the same way male authors are encouraged to "test" their female characters – ie: do they have agency, is their sexuality in service of plot/character or just titillation, are they stereotypes/monotypes, is one "good" (rewarded for conforming to society's standards) and the other "bad" (punished for non-conformity), do they talk about anything outside of who they are dating or in love with (Bechdel Test), etc.
I could change one of the character's to female and make it work though I would have to change the plot quite a bit, and both characters are based on 4 guys I know, but maybe I should just to avoid pissing people off.
I understand these are not the main character, but supporting characters, so...
- How much would it change the plot to keep them bisexual and change both to women?
- What if they are bisexual male and female, but their "normal" is
homosexual (a sub-culture or neighborhood which existed in the late
1960s in many cities)? - What if one is homosexual, the other bisexual, and this causes
ideological problems within their relationship? - What if they both start as bisexual, then drift towards homosexual
and heterosexual respectively? - What if one is radical, the other conservative? What if one is out and the other doesn't care to be?
- What if they are different races, religions, or economic class?
I think you get the idea. There are endless ways you could alter them. Each would require a little re-tooling, but does it make any difference to their actual character – what they think and how they approach problems?
The truth is, we don't have any information about these 2 other than they fall in love, and eventually have a coming out scene to their mothers. Needless to say you are going to have to give them more substance than just those clichés, which are modern interpretations of "normal" for homosexuality-only. Why would bisexual men tell their families in the 1960s, when homosexuality could get you arrested, fired, and even force-medicated? Would they even identify with "out" homosexuals, or would they consider themselves a kind of "free love" that doesn't need to be defined?
On a side note, plenty of witch cults and pagan temples were de facto bisexual, at least ceremoniously. Sex magic was just as big in the '60s as any other decade.
I think your heart is in the right place, but based on the brief description I can see where some gay and especially bisexual men would feel you are not representing them as real people, certainly not behaving realistically for the time period.
Create the characters first. Understand who they are and what motivates them as people – especially what makes them different from one other – and then build the relationship between them.
If your character arcs can survive gender/race/sexuality/class changing (with minor adjustments) and their motives/actions still make sense, you have nothing to worry about because they are real people. But if the character falls apart by changing their gender/race/sexuality/class then you probably have shallow stereotypes.
answered 10 mins ago
wetcircuit
4,910730
I know that lots of people are angry about women writing those types of characters. I'm not trying to appropriate or fetishize anyone
There is no clear line here, but you can always "test" your characters and scenes in the same way male authors are encouraged to "test" their female characters – ie: do they have agency, is their sexuality in service of plot/character or just titillation, are they stereotypes/monotypes, is one "good" (rewarded for conforming to society's standards) and the other "bad" (punished for non-conformity), do they talk about anything outside of who they are dating or in love with (Bechdel Test), etc.
I could change one of the character's to female and make it work though I would have to change the plot quite a bit, and both characters are based on 4 guys I know, but maybe I should just to avoid pissing people off.
I understand these are not the main character, but supporting characters, so...
- How much would it change the plot to keep them bisexual and change both to women?
- What if they are bisexual male and female, but their "normal" is
homosexual (a sub-culture or neighborhood which existed in the late
1960s in many cities)? - What if one is homosexual, the other bisexual, and this causes
ideological problems within their relationship? - What if they both start as bisexual, then drift towards homosexual
and heterosexual respectively? - What if one is radical, the other conservative? What if one is out and the other doesn't care to be?
- What if they are different races, religions, or economic class?
I think you get the idea. There are endless ways you could alter them. Each would require a little re-tooling, but does it make any difference to their actual character – what they think and how they approach problems?
The truth is, we don't have any information about these 2 other than they fall in love, and eventually have a coming out scene to their mothers. Needless to say you are going to have to give them more substance than just those clichés, which are modern interpretations of "normal" for homosexuality-only. Why would bisexual men tell their families in the 1960s, when homosexuality could get you arrested, fired, and even force-medicated? Would they even identify with "out" homosexuals, or would they consider themselves a kind of "free love" that doesn't need to be defined?
On a side note, plenty of witch cults and pagan temples were de facto bisexual, at least ceremoniously. Sex magic was just as big in the '60s as any other decade.
I think your heart is in the right place, but based on the brief description I can see where some gay and especially bisexual men would feel you are not representing them as real people, certainly not behaving realistically for the time period.
Create the characters first. Understand who they are and what motivates them as people – especially what makes them different from one other – and then build the relationship between them.
If your character arcs can survive gender/race/sexuality/class changing (with minor adjustments) and their motives/actions still make sense, you have nothing to worry about because they are real people. But if the character falls apart by changing their gender/race/sexuality/class then you probably have shallow stereotypes.
answered 10 mins ago
wetcircuit
4,910730
answered 10 mins ago
wetcircuit
4,910730
answered 10 mins ago
wetcircuit
4,910730
answered 10 mins ago
wetcircuit
4,910730
4,910730
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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