Mixing
Why is there a 50-move rule and a 75-move rule?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
By number theory, if the 75-move rule has been reached, the 50-move rule will also be reached. This has no meaning. It is like saying "I would buy this book if it cost under $60 and it costs under $40". So, what is the logic behind that?
50-move-rule 75-move-rule
asked 8 hours ago
Wais Kamal
514116
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
By number theory, if the 75-move rule has been reached, the 50-move rule will also be reached. This has no meaning. It is like saying "I would buy this book if it cost under $60 and it costs under $40". So, what is the logic behind that?
50-move-rule 75-move-rule
asked 8 hours ago
Wais Kamal
514116
In cases where the 75-moves rule applies (e.g. 2B vs N, IIRC), it replaces the 50-moves rule : you cannot claim a draw after 50 moves, but you can do so after 75 moves.
– Evargalo
7 hours ago
So do you mean that the 50-move rule does not apply to 2B vs N games?
– Wais Kamal
7 hours ago
1
@Evargalo that used to be the case (in various forms) from 1928 to 1992: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty-move_rule#History
– Glorfindel
6 hours ago
Yes, I was confused between two different 75-moves rules. Annatar's answer is spot on.
– Evargalo
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
By number theory, if the 75-move rule has been reached, the 50-move rule will also be reached. This has no meaning. It is like saying "I would buy this book if it cost under $60 and it costs under $40". So, what is the logic behind that?
50-move-rule 75-move-rule
asked 8 hours ago
Wais Kamal
514116
By number theory, if the 75-move rule has been reached, the 50-move rule will also be reached. This has no meaning. It is like saying "I would buy this book if it cost under $60 and it costs under $40". So, what is the logic behind that?
50-move-rule 75-move-rule
50-move-rule 75-move-rule
asked 8 hours ago
Wais Kamal
514116
asked 8 hours ago
Wais Kamal
514116
edited 4 mins ago
asked 8 hours ago
Wais Kamal
514116
asked 8 hours ago
Wais Kamal
514116
asked 8 hours ago
Wais Kamal
514116
514116
In cases where the 75-moves rule applies (e.g. 2B vs N, IIRC), it replaces the 50-moves rule : you cannot claim a draw after 50 moves, but you can do so after 75 moves.
– Evargalo
7 hours ago
So do you mean that the 50-move rule does not apply to 2B vs N games?
– Wais Kamal
7 hours ago
1
@Evargalo that used to be the case (in various forms) from 1928 to 1992: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty-move_rule#History
– Glorfindel
6 hours ago
Yes, I was confused between two different 75-moves rules. Annatar's answer is spot on.
– Evargalo
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
In cases where the 75-moves rule applies (e.g. 2B vs N, IIRC), it replaces the 50-moves rule : you cannot claim a draw after 50 moves, but you can do so after 75 moves.
– Evargalo
7 hours ago
So do you mean that the 50-move rule does not apply to 2B vs N games?
– Wais Kamal
7 hours ago
1
@Evargalo that used to be the case (in various forms) from 1928 to 1992: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty-move_rule#History
– Glorfindel
6 hours ago
Yes, I was confused between two different 75-moves rules. Annatar's answer is spot on.
– Evargalo
5 hours ago
In cases where the 75-moves rule applies (e.g. 2B vs N, IIRC), it replaces the 50-moves rule : you cannot claim a draw after 50 moves, but you can do so after 75 moves.
– Evargalo
7 hours ago
In cases where the 75-moves rule applies (e.g. 2B vs N, IIRC), it replaces the 50-moves rule : you cannot claim a draw after 50 moves, but you can do so after 75 moves.
– Evargalo
7 hours ago
So do you mean that the 50-move rule does not apply to 2B vs N games?
– Wais Kamal
7 hours ago
So do you mean that the 50-move rule does not apply to 2B vs N games?
– Wais Kamal
7 hours ago
1
1
@Evargalo that used to be the case (in various forms) from 1928 to 1992: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty-move_rule#History
– Glorfindel
6 hours ago
@Evargalo that used to be the case (in various forms) from 1928 to 1992: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty-move_rule#History
– Glorfindel
6 hours ago
Yes, I was confused between two different 75-moves rules. Annatar's answer is spot on.
– Evargalo
5 hours ago
Yes, I was confused between two different 75-moves rules. Annatar's answer is spot on.
– Evargalo
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
From the FIDE Laws of Chess:
50-move rule:
9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, if:
(...)
the last 50 moves by each player have been completed without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
75-move rule:
9.6 If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn: (...) any series of at least 75 moves have been made by each player without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
(emphasis mine)
As you can see, the decisive difference is that the 50-move rule only applies if a player correctly claims it, while the 75-move rule applies independently of any claims. So, in the 50 to 75 move window, the players can claim for a draw, but don't have to (and play on). Only when the 75th move without pawn moves or captures has been reached, the arbiter may interfere and declare the game drawn.
answered 7 hours ago
Annatar
1,764713
Or, presumably, if a player is under too much time pressure to keep track of the number of moves and doesn't claim the draw, then runs out of time after more than 75 moves have gone by, they can retroactively claim the draw as of the 75 moves.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
The better question is, given that at 50 moves it is objectively correct for one of the players to claim a draw, so why not just make it forced then?
– eyeballfrog
2 hours ago
3
@eyeballfrog: perhaps because both players still believe they can win when their opponent makes a blunder, or runs out of time. If both players believe they can win then why would either declare a draw when they did not have to?
– Eric Lippert
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
From the FIDE Laws of Chess:
50-move rule:
9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, if:
(...)
the last 50 moves by each player have been completed without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
75-move rule:
9.6 If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn: (...) any series of at least 75 moves have been made by each player without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
(emphasis mine)
As you can see, the decisive difference is that the 50-move rule only applies if a player correctly claims it, while the 75-move rule applies independently of any claims. So, in the 50 to 75 move window, the players can claim for a draw, but don't have to (and play on). Only when the 75th move without pawn moves or captures has been reached, the arbiter may interfere and declare the game drawn.
answered 7 hours ago
Annatar
1,764713
Or, presumably, if a player is under too much time pressure to keep track of the number of moves and doesn't claim the draw, then runs out of time after more than 75 moves have gone by, they can retroactively claim the draw as of the 75 moves.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
The better question is, given that at 50 moves it is objectively correct for one of the players to claim a draw, so why not just make it forced then?
– eyeballfrog
2 hours ago
3
@eyeballfrog: perhaps because both players still believe they can win when their opponent makes a blunder, or runs out of time. If both players believe they can win then why would either declare a draw when they did not have to?
– Eric Lippert
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
From the FIDE Laws of Chess:
50-move rule:
9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, if:
(...)
the last 50 moves by each player have been completed without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
75-move rule:
9.6 If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn: (...) any series of at least 75 moves have been made by each player without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
(emphasis mine)
As you can see, the decisive difference is that the 50-move rule only applies if a player correctly claims it, while the 75-move rule applies independently of any claims. So, in the 50 to 75 move window, the players can claim for a draw, but don't have to (and play on). Only when the 75th move without pawn moves or captures has been reached, the arbiter may interfere and declare the game drawn.
answered 7 hours ago
Annatar
1,764713
Or, presumably, if a player is under too much time pressure to keep track of the number of moves and doesn't claim the draw, then runs out of time after more than 75 moves have gone by, they can retroactively claim the draw as of the 75 moves.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
The better question is, given that at 50 moves it is objectively correct for one of the players to claim a draw, so why not just make it forced then?
– eyeballfrog
2 hours ago
3
@eyeballfrog: perhaps because both players still believe they can win when their opponent makes a blunder, or runs out of time. If both players believe they can win then why would either declare a draw when they did not have to?
– Eric Lippert
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
From the FIDE Laws of Chess:
50-move rule:
9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, if:
(...)
the last 50 moves by each player have been completed without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
75-move rule:
9.6 If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn: (...) any series of at least 75 moves have been made by each player without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
(emphasis mine)
As you can see, the decisive difference is that the 50-move rule only applies if a player correctly claims it, while the 75-move rule applies independently of any claims. So, in the 50 to 75 move window, the players can claim for a draw, but don't have to (and play on). Only when the 75th move without pawn moves or captures has been reached, the arbiter may interfere and declare the game drawn.
answered 7 hours ago
Annatar
1,764713
From the FIDE Laws of Chess:
50-move rule:
9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, if:
(...)
the last 50 moves by each player have been completed without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
75-move rule:
9.6 If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn: (...) any series of at least 75 moves have been made by each player without the movement of any pawn and without any capture.
(emphasis mine)
As you can see, the decisive difference is that the 50-move rule only applies if a player correctly claims it, while the 75-move rule applies independently of any claims. So, in the 50 to 75 move window, the players can claim for a draw, but don't have to (and play on). Only when the 75th move without pawn moves or captures has been reached, the arbiter may interfere and declare the game drawn.
answered 7 hours ago
Annatar
1,764713
answered 7 hours ago
Annatar
1,764713
answered 7 hours ago
Annatar
1,764713
answered 7 hours ago
Annatar
1,764713
1,764713
Or, presumably, if a player is under too much time pressure to keep track of the number of moves and doesn't claim the draw, then runs out of time after more than 75 moves have gone by, they can retroactively claim the draw as of the 75 moves.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
The better question is, given that at 50 moves it is objectively correct for one of the players to claim a draw, so why not just make it forced then?
– eyeballfrog
2 hours ago
3
@eyeballfrog: perhaps because both players still believe they can win when their opponent makes a blunder, or runs out of time. If both players believe they can win then why would either declare a draw when they did not have to?
– Eric Lippert
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
Or, presumably, if a player is under too much time pressure to keep track of the number of moves and doesn't claim the draw, then runs out of time after more than 75 moves have gone by, they can retroactively claim the draw as of the 75 moves.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
The better question is, given that at 50 moves it is objectively correct for one of the players to claim a draw, so why not just make it forced then?
– eyeballfrog
2 hours ago
3
@eyeballfrog: perhaps because both players still believe they can win when their opponent makes a blunder, or runs out of time. If both players believe they can win then why would either declare a draw when they did not have to?
– Eric Lippert
1 hour ago
Or, presumably, if a player is under too much time pressure to keep track of the number of moves and doesn't claim the draw, then runs out of time after more than 75 moves have gone by, they can retroactively claim the draw as of the 75 moves.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
Or, presumably, if a player is under too much time pressure to keep track of the number of moves and doesn't claim the draw, then runs out of time after more than 75 moves have gone by, they can retroactively claim the draw as of the 75 moves.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
The better question is, given that at 50 moves it is objectively correct for one of the players to claim a draw, so why not just make it forced then?
– eyeballfrog
2 hours ago
The better question is, given that at 50 moves it is objectively correct for one of the players to claim a draw, so why not just make it forced then?
– eyeballfrog
2 hours ago
3
3
@eyeballfrog: perhaps because both players still believe they can win when their opponent makes a blunder, or runs out of time. If both players believe they can win then why would either declare a draw when they did not have to?
– Eric Lippert
1 hour ago
@eyeballfrog: perhaps because both players still believe they can win when their opponent makes a blunder, or runs out of time. If both players believe they can win then why would either declare a draw when they did not have to?
– Eric Lippert
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchess.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f22779%2fwhy-is-there-a-50-move-rule-and-a-75-move-rule%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
In cases where the 75-moves rule applies (e.g. 2B vs N, IIRC), it replaces the 50-moves rule : you cannot claim a draw after 50 moves, but you can do so after 75 moves.
– Evargalo
7 hours ago
So do you mean that the 50-move rule does not apply to 2B vs N games?
– Wais Kamal
7 hours ago
1
@Evargalo that used to be the case (in various forms) from 1928 to 1992: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty-move_rule#History
– Glorfindel
6 hours ago
Yes, I was confused between two different 75-moves rules. Annatar's answer is spot on.
– Evargalo
5 hours ago