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Can I use the Boon of Spell Mastery as a warlock for a spell that I didn't learn as a warlock, but learned as a different class?
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If I have a Bard with Cure Wounds, and take one level of Celestial Warlock (from Xanathar's Guide to Everything) before getting the Boon of Spell Mastery(DMG, 232):
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast. You can now cast that spell at its lowest level without expending a spell slot.
The Celestial Warlock has an expanded Spell List that includes Cure Wounds as an option. Does this inclusion of Cure Wounds as a possible spell to select (but not necessarily actually selecting it) give me infinite Cure Wounds?
dnd-5e spells warlock epic-tier
edited 42 mins ago
NautArch
47.3k6167321
asked 2 hours ago
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up vote
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If I have a Bard with Cure Wounds, and take one level of Celestial Warlock (from Xanathar's Guide to Everything) before getting the Boon of Spell Mastery(DMG, 232):
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast. You can now cast that spell at its lowest level without expending a spell slot.
The Celestial Warlock has an expanded Spell List that includes Cure Wounds as an option. Does this inclusion of Cure Wounds as a possible spell to select (but not necessarily actually selecting it) give me infinite Cure Wounds?
dnd-5e spells warlock epic-tier
edited 42 mins ago
NautArch
47.3k6167321
asked 2 hours ago
Stackstuck
21016
Epic Boons can be found starting on page 231 of the DMG.
– Szega
1 hour ago
@NautArch It's a feature of the Celestial Warlock class. Ten spells, one of which is Cure Wounds, are "added to the Warlock Spell List" for that class.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
You should probably add the text of the Celestial Warlock "Expanded Spell List" feature just so its text is easily visible to would-be answers.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
The question in the body is the inverse of the question in the title. I recommend one be switched to provide more coherent answers
– inthemanual
1 hour ago
@NautArch I read it as them asking if they need to know it for it to count as a warlock spell or if it being on the list and being able to cast it elsewhere is good enough.
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
If I have a Bard with Cure Wounds, and take one level of Celestial Warlock (from Xanathar's Guide to Everything) before getting the Boon of Spell Mastery(DMG, 232):
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast. You can now cast that spell at its lowest level without expending a spell slot.
The Celestial Warlock has an expanded Spell List that includes Cure Wounds as an option. Does this inclusion of Cure Wounds as a possible spell to select (but not necessarily actually selecting it) give me infinite Cure Wounds?
dnd-5e spells warlock epic-tier
edited 42 mins ago
NautArch
47.3k6167321
asked 2 hours ago
Stackstuck
21016
If I have a Bard with Cure Wounds, and take one level of Celestial Warlock (from Xanathar's Guide to Everything) before getting the Boon of Spell Mastery(DMG, 232):
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast. You can now cast that spell at its lowest level without expending a spell slot.
The Celestial Warlock has an expanded Spell List that includes Cure Wounds as an option. Does this inclusion of Cure Wounds as a possible spell to select (but not necessarily actually selecting it) give me infinite Cure Wounds?
dnd-5e spells warlock epic-tier
dnd-5e spells warlock epic-tier
edited 42 mins ago
NautArch
47.3k6167321
asked 2 hours ago
Stackstuck
21016
edited 42 mins ago
NautArch
47.3k6167321
asked 2 hours ago
Stackstuck
21016
edited 42 mins ago
NautArch
47.3k6167321
edited 42 mins ago
NautArch
47.3k6167321
edited 42 mins ago
NautArch
47.3k6167321
47.3k6167321
asked 2 hours ago
Stackstuck
21016
asked 2 hours ago
Stackstuck
21016
asked 2 hours ago
Stackstuck
21016
21016
Epic Boons can be found starting on page 231 of the DMG.
– Szega
1 hour ago
@NautArch It's a feature of the Celestial Warlock class. Ten spells, one of which is Cure Wounds, are "added to the Warlock Spell List" for that class.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
You should probably add the text of the Celestial Warlock "Expanded Spell List" feature just so its text is easily visible to would-be answers.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
The question in the body is the inverse of the question in the title. I recommend one be switched to provide more coherent answers
– inthemanual
1 hour ago
@NautArch I read it as them asking if they need to know it for it to count as a warlock spell or if it being on the list and being able to cast it elsewhere is good enough.
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
Epic Boons can be found starting on page 231 of the DMG.
– Szega
1 hour ago
@NautArch It's a feature of the Celestial Warlock class. Ten spells, one of which is Cure Wounds, are "added to the Warlock Spell List" for that class.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
You should probably add the text of the Celestial Warlock "Expanded Spell List" feature just so its text is easily visible to would-be answers.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
The question in the body is the inverse of the question in the title. I recommend one be switched to provide more coherent answers
– inthemanual
1 hour ago
@NautArch I read it as them asking if they need to know it for it to count as a warlock spell or if it being on the list and being able to cast it elsewhere is good enough.
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
Epic Boons can be found starting on page 231 of the DMG.
– Szega
1 hour ago
Epic Boons can be found starting on page 231 of the DMG.
– Szega
1 hour ago
@NautArch It's a feature of the Celestial Warlock class. Ten spells, one of which is Cure Wounds, are "added to the Warlock Spell List" for that class.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
@NautArch It's a feature of the Celestial Warlock class. Ten spells, one of which is Cure Wounds, are "added to the Warlock Spell List" for that class.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
You should probably add the text of the Celestial Warlock "Expanded Spell List" feature just so its text is easily visible to would-be answers.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
You should probably add the text of the Celestial Warlock "Expanded Spell List" feature just so its text is easily visible to would-be answers.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
The question in the body is the inverse of the question in the title. I recommend one be switched to provide more coherent answers
– inthemanual
1 hour ago
The question in the body is the inverse of the question in the title. I recommend one be switched to provide more coherent answers
– inthemanual
1 hour ago
@NautArch I read it as them asking if they need to know it for it to count as a warlock spell or if it being on the list and being able to cast it elsewhere is good enough.
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
@NautArch I read it as them asking if they need to know it for it to count as a warlock spell or if it being on the list and being able to cast it elsewhere is good enough.
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
3 Answers
3
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up vote
3
down vote
RAW: Yes in general. No for the character you described
The epic boon of Spell Mastery says the following (emphasis mine):
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast."
You indicate in your question that Cure Wounds might be a spell that's on your character's spell list due to their one level dip into Celestial Warlock, but your character doesn't know it as a Warlock. If your character doesn't know the spell as a member of the stated classes, then they don't meet the criteria of being able to cast it and thus are ineligible for selecting Cure Wounds for this boon.
That said, were you to select Cure Wounds as a spell known then you meet the criteria of the spell being one you can cast and thus, yes, you can select Cure Wounds for the boon.
The Catch
Once you're in the realm of epic boons, you are also in the realm of DM discretion to prevent game imbalance. As the DMG and the epic boons were published prior to the Celestial Warlock (or the Divine Soul Sorcerer), your DM would be well within their bounds to restrict Cure Wounds from what can be selected for that boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Pyrotechnical
12.6k349121
I said I could cast it through bard.
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
2
Yes, but it's not a warlock spell then, it's a Bard spell. So no.
– Pyrotechnical
1 hour ago
But I can definitely cast Cure Wounds, and it's a warlock spell for me. Nothing definitively says those conditions are cumulative?
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
@Stackstuck it's a warlock spell for you if you learned it as a warlock (chose it for your level 1 warlock spells). Otherwise it's just a bard spell and a spell on the warlock list for you
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
So, if I'm reading this right - The character has and can cast "Bard: Cure Wounds" but not "Warlock: Cure Wounds" even though "Warlock: Cure Wounds" is technically on his spell list - and this boon only applies to "Warlock:" Spells (or sorcerer or wizard). Right?
– Sir Cinnamon
53 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
No
Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your
classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you
cast the spell. (PHB 164 on multiclassing)
When you learn or prepare a spell, you do it tied to a certain class. Ie. if you prepare it from your spellbook as a wizard, it is a wizard spell. And this is what the boon refers to. The point is not whether or not the spell is on a spell list, but whether you know or prepare it as a sorcerer, wizard or warlock spell. You learned the spell as a bard, thus it is a bard spell for you.
Note: If with your 1 level dip you learn cure wounds as a Warlock of the Celestial, it becomes also a warlock spell for you and will be eligible for the Epic Boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Szega
35.4k4147180
@NautArch Yeah, there should be a reference. I have remedied the situation. Thanks.
– Szega
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
RAW, Probably Yes
The contention, of course, boils down to what constitutes a spell being on a given class' spell list, and whether or not that makes it a "X spell". The entry for Celestial Warlock, where its additional spells are listed, has this to say:
The Celestial lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a warlock spell. The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you.
Full stop, the class feature specifies that these spells are added to the warlock spell list for you. So as a [part-]Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is in the Warlock Spell List for you, which suggests that for all intents and purposes, it counts as a "Warlock Spell" for you, and therefore, ought to qualify when receiving the Boon of Spell Mastery.
The Boon of Spell Mastery demands that you be capable of casting Cure Wounds (which your level in Celestial Warlock ensures is part of the list), but does not explicitly specify that you be able to cast it as part of that class. It merely says
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast.
So,
- As a Bard, you have learned Cure Wounds, and are therefore able to cast it.
- As a Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is part of the Warlock Spell List for you,
Therefore, you've met the criteria for this Boon, and ought to be able to use it in this manner.
The implication of this is that you probably don't even need to have actual spellcasting levels: the way this is written, A Firbolg Player Character, who will have the ability to cast (once per Short Rest) the spells Detect Magic and Disguise Self, would be eligible for this boon because they are "able to cast" both of those spells, both of which are on the Wizard Spell List, even if they themselves are a Fighter with no spellcasting levels or levels in classes which permit spellcasting.
Note that this might not work for a Divine Soul Sorcerer with Cleric spells, because the specification for them is a little different:
When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you.
For Divine Sorcerers, the cause for a spell to count as a sorcerer spell is specifically contingent on having selected to learn it. So in this case, the Sorcerer would only be able to use this boon with a cleric spell if they specifically learn said spell through their Divine Sorcerer features.
Boons are almost exclusively in the realm of DM fiat
While the RAW answer might suggest that this is viable, DMs are not required to provide Boons at all, or at the particular discretion of the players receiving them, or according to the letter of the capabilities specified by said Boons. So if a DM says that they would or would not permit this particular combo, I don't think an appeal to RAW would justify overturning their decision.
Personally, as a DM, I don't agree with the class restriction in the first place (what 1st level spell becomes overpowered by this Boon that wasn't already accessible to those three classes in the first place???), but I can't make assumptions about what your DM will consider reasonable or unreasonable.
One other wrinkle
It's not clear from context whether the intent of the Boon is to only permit spells that are normally from the Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer spell lists. It may be that that is the intended interpretation of the wording of this Boon, and as such, it would negate this use of the Boon, but short of a clarifying response from Crawford, we can't make assumptions on this front.
answered 1 hour ago
Xirema
8,8352563
For a spell to be a "warlock spell" you need to first learn the spell via Pact Magic or another feature that calls it a warlock spell. Otherwise it's just a spell on your warlock spell list
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
@DavidCoffron No part of the Celestial Warlock feature specifically says that the spells added by this feature "become Warlock Spells", so if I take your comment as correct, that implies that even if they learn those spells as a Celestial Warlock, none of said spells are, in fact, "Warlock Spells" by any meaningful definition, including the spellcasting modifier used to cast them or by any other feature that may or may not interact with their being a "Warlock Spell". Since that would have pretty strange implications on how the class works, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
the feature only says they are added to the spell list. This makes them eligible for Pact Magic learning which in turn makes them become warlock spells. They aren't warlock spells automatically
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
RAW: Yes in general. No for the character you described
The epic boon of Spell Mastery says the following (emphasis mine):
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast."
You indicate in your question that Cure Wounds might be a spell that's on your character's spell list due to their one level dip into Celestial Warlock, but your character doesn't know it as a Warlock. If your character doesn't know the spell as a member of the stated classes, then they don't meet the criteria of being able to cast it and thus are ineligible for selecting Cure Wounds for this boon.
That said, were you to select Cure Wounds as a spell known then you meet the criteria of the spell being one you can cast and thus, yes, you can select Cure Wounds for the boon.
The Catch
Once you're in the realm of epic boons, you are also in the realm of DM discretion to prevent game imbalance. As the DMG and the epic boons were published prior to the Celestial Warlock (or the Divine Soul Sorcerer), your DM would be well within their bounds to restrict Cure Wounds from what can be selected for that boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Pyrotechnical
12.6k349121
I said I could cast it through bard.
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
2
Yes, but it's not a warlock spell then, it's a Bard spell. So no.
– Pyrotechnical
1 hour ago
But I can definitely cast Cure Wounds, and it's a warlock spell for me. Nothing definitively says those conditions are cumulative?
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
@Stackstuck it's a warlock spell for you if you learned it as a warlock (chose it for your level 1 warlock spells). Otherwise it's just a bard spell and a spell on the warlock list for you
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
So, if I'm reading this right - The character has and can cast "Bard: Cure Wounds" but not "Warlock: Cure Wounds" even though "Warlock: Cure Wounds" is technically on his spell list - and this boon only applies to "Warlock:" Spells (or sorcerer or wizard). Right?
– Sir Cinnamon
53 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
RAW: Yes in general. No for the character you described
The epic boon of Spell Mastery says the following (emphasis mine):
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast."
You indicate in your question that Cure Wounds might be a spell that's on your character's spell list due to their one level dip into Celestial Warlock, but your character doesn't know it as a Warlock. If your character doesn't know the spell as a member of the stated classes, then they don't meet the criteria of being able to cast it and thus are ineligible for selecting Cure Wounds for this boon.
That said, were you to select Cure Wounds as a spell known then you meet the criteria of the spell being one you can cast and thus, yes, you can select Cure Wounds for the boon.
The Catch
Once you're in the realm of epic boons, you are also in the realm of DM discretion to prevent game imbalance. As the DMG and the epic boons were published prior to the Celestial Warlock (or the Divine Soul Sorcerer), your DM would be well within their bounds to restrict Cure Wounds from what can be selected for that boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Pyrotechnical
12.6k349121
I said I could cast it through bard.
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
2
Yes, but it's not a warlock spell then, it's a Bard spell. So no.
– Pyrotechnical
1 hour ago
But I can definitely cast Cure Wounds, and it's a warlock spell for me. Nothing definitively says those conditions are cumulative?
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
@Stackstuck it's a warlock spell for you if you learned it as a warlock (chose it for your level 1 warlock spells). Otherwise it's just a bard spell and a spell on the warlock list for you
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
So, if I'm reading this right - The character has and can cast "Bard: Cure Wounds" but not "Warlock: Cure Wounds" even though "Warlock: Cure Wounds" is technically on his spell list - and this boon only applies to "Warlock:" Spells (or sorcerer or wizard). Right?
– Sir Cinnamon
53 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
RAW: Yes in general. No for the character you described
The epic boon of Spell Mastery says the following (emphasis mine):
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast."
You indicate in your question that Cure Wounds might be a spell that's on your character's spell list due to their one level dip into Celestial Warlock, but your character doesn't know it as a Warlock. If your character doesn't know the spell as a member of the stated classes, then they don't meet the criteria of being able to cast it and thus are ineligible for selecting Cure Wounds for this boon.
That said, were you to select Cure Wounds as a spell known then you meet the criteria of the spell being one you can cast and thus, yes, you can select Cure Wounds for the boon.
The Catch
Once you're in the realm of epic boons, you are also in the realm of DM discretion to prevent game imbalance. As the DMG and the epic boons were published prior to the Celestial Warlock (or the Divine Soul Sorcerer), your DM would be well within their bounds to restrict Cure Wounds from what can be selected for that boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Pyrotechnical
12.6k349121
RAW: Yes in general. No for the character you described
The epic boon of Spell Mastery says the following (emphasis mine):
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast."
You indicate in your question that Cure Wounds might be a spell that's on your character's spell list due to their one level dip into Celestial Warlock, but your character doesn't know it as a Warlock. If your character doesn't know the spell as a member of the stated classes, then they don't meet the criteria of being able to cast it and thus are ineligible for selecting Cure Wounds for this boon.
That said, were you to select Cure Wounds as a spell known then you meet the criteria of the spell being one you can cast and thus, yes, you can select Cure Wounds for the boon.
The Catch
Once you're in the realm of epic boons, you are also in the realm of DM discretion to prevent game imbalance. As the DMG and the epic boons were published prior to the Celestial Warlock (or the Divine Soul Sorcerer), your DM would be well within their bounds to restrict Cure Wounds from what can be selected for that boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Pyrotechnical
12.6k349121
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
Pyrotechnical
12.6k349121
answered 1 hour ago
Pyrotechnical
12.6k349121
answered 1 hour ago
Pyrotechnical
12.6k349121
12.6k349121
I said I could cast it through bard.
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
2
Yes, but it's not a warlock spell then, it's a Bard spell. So no.
– Pyrotechnical
1 hour ago
But I can definitely cast Cure Wounds, and it's a warlock spell for me. Nothing definitively says those conditions are cumulative?
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
@Stackstuck it's a warlock spell for you if you learned it as a warlock (chose it for your level 1 warlock spells). Otherwise it's just a bard spell and a spell on the warlock list for you
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
So, if I'm reading this right - The character has and can cast "Bard: Cure Wounds" but not "Warlock: Cure Wounds" even though "Warlock: Cure Wounds" is technically on his spell list - and this boon only applies to "Warlock:" Spells (or sorcerer or wizard). Right?
– Sir Cinnamon
53 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
I said I could cast it through bard.
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
2
Yes, but it's not a warlock spell then, it's a Bard spell. So no.
– Pyrotechnical
1 hour ago
But I can definitely cast Cure Wounds, and it's a warlock spell for me. Nothing definitively says those conditions are cumulative?
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
@Stackstuck it's a warlock spell for you if you learned it as a warlock (chose it for your level 1 warlock spells). Otherwise it's just a bard spell and a spell on the warlock list for you
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
So, if I'm reading this right - The character has and can cast "Bard: Cure Wounds" but not "Warlock: Cure Wounds" even though "Warlock: Cure Wounds" is technically on his spell list - and this boon only applies to "Warlock:" Spells (or sorcerer or wizard). Right?
– Sir Cinnamon
53 mins ago
I said I could cast it through bard.
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
I said I could cast it through bard.
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
2
2
Yes, but it's not a warlock spell then, it's a Bard spell. So no.
– Pyrotechnical
1 hour ago
Yes, but it's not a warlock spell then, it's a Bard spell. So no.
– Pyrotechnical
1 hour ago
But I can definitely cast Cure Wounds, and it's a warlock spell for me. Nothing definitively says those conditions are cumulative?
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
But I can definitely cast Cure Wounds, and it's a warlock spell for me. Nothing definitively says those conditions are cumulative?
– Stackstuck
1 hour ago
@Stackstuck it's a warlock spell for you if you learned it as a warlock (chose it for your level 1 warlock spells). Otherwise it's just a bard spell and a spell on the warlock list for you
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
@Stackstuck it's a warlock spell for you if you learned it as a warlock (chose it for your level 1 warlock spells). Otherwise it's just a bard spell and a spell on the warlock list for you
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
So, if I'm reading this right - The character has and can cast "Bard: Cure Wounds" but not "Warlock: Cure Wounds" even though "Warlock: Cure Wounds" is technically on his spell list - and this boon only applies to "Warlock:" Spells (or sorcerer or wizard). Right?
– Sir Cinnamon
53 mins ago
So, if I'm reading this right - The character has and can cast "Bard: Cure Wounds" but not "Warlock: Cure Wounds" even though "Warlock: Cure Wounds" is technically on his spell list - and this boon only applies to "Warlock:" Spells (or sorcerer or wizard). Right?
– Sir Cinnamon
53 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
No
Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your
classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you
cast the spell. (PHB 164 on multiclassing)
When you learn or prepare a spell, you do it tied to a certain class. Ie. if you prepare it from your spellbook as a wizard, it is a wizard spell. And this is what the boon refers to. The point is not whether or not the spell is on a spell list, but whether you know or prepare it as a sorcerer, wizard or warlock spell. You learned the spell as a bard, thus it is a bard spell for you.
Note: If with your 1 level dip you learn cure wounds as a Warlock of the Celestial, it becomes also a warlock spell for you and will be eligible for the Epic Boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Szega
35.4k4147180
@NautArch Yeah, there should be a reference. I have remedied the situation. Thanks.
– Szega
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
No
Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your
classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you
cast the spell. (PHB 164 on multiclassing)
When you learn or prepare a spell, you do it tied to a certain class. Ie. if you prepare it from your spellbook as a wizard, it is a wizard spell. And this is what the boon refers to. The point is not whether or not the spell is on a spell list, but whether you know or prepare it as a sorcerer, wizard or warlock spell. You learned the spell as a bard, thus it is a bard spell for you.
Note: If with your 1 level dip you learn cure wounds as a Warlock of the Celestial, it becomes also a warlock spell for you and will be eligible for the Epic Boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Szega
35.4k4147180
@NautArch Yeah, there should be a reference. I have remedied the situation. Thanks.
– Szega
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
No
Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your
classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you
cast the spell. (PHB 164 on multiclassing)
When you learn or prepare a spell, you do it tied to a certain class. Ie. if you prepare it from your spellbook as a wizard, it is a wizard spell. And this is what the boon refers to. The point is not whether or not the spell is on a spell list, but whether you know or prepare it as a sorcerer, wizard or warlock spell. You learned the spell as a bard, thus it is a bard spell for you.
Note: If with your 1 level dip you learn cure wounds as a Warlock of the Celestial, it becomes also a warlock spell for you and will be eligible for the Epic Boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Szega
35.4k4147180
No
Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your
classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you
cast the spell. (PHB 164 on multiclassing)
When you learn or prepare a spell, you do it tied to a certain class. Ie. if you prepare it from your spellbook as a wizard, it is a wizard spell. And this is what the boon refers to. The point is not whether or not the spell is on a spell list, but whether you know or prepare it as a sorcerer, wizard or warlock spell. You learned the spell as a bard, thus it is a bard spell for you.
Note: If with your 1 level dip you learn cure wounds as a Warlock of the Celestial, it becomes also a warlock spell for you and will be eligible for the Epic Boon.
answered 1 hour ago
Szega
35.4k4147180
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
Szega
35.4k4147180
answered 1 hour ago
Szega
35.4k4147180
answered 1 hour ago
Szega
35.4k4147180
35.4k4147180
@NautArch Yeah, there should be a reference. I have remedied the situation. Thanks.
– Szega
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
@NautArch Yeah, there should be a reference. I have remedied the situation. Thanks.
– Szega
1 hour ago
@NautArch Yeah, there should be a reference. I have remedied the situation. Thanks.
– Szega
1 hour ago
@NautArch Yeah, there should be a reference. I have remedied the situation. Thanks.
– Szega
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
RAW, Probably Yes
The contention, of course, boils down to what constitutes a spell being on a given class' spell list, and whether or not that makes it a "X spell". The entry for Celestial Warlock, where its additional spells are listed, has this to say:
The Celestial lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a warlock spell. The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you.
Full stop, the class feature specifies that these spells are added to the warlock spell list for you. So as a [part-]Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is in the Warlock Spell List for you, which suggests that for all intents and purposes, it counts as a "Warlock Spell" for you, and therefore, ought to qualify when receiving the Boon of Spell Mastery.
The Boon of Spell Mastery demands that you be capable of casting Cure Wounds (which your level in Celestial Warlock ensures is part of the list), but does not explicitly specify that you be able to cast it as part of that class. It merely says
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast.
So,
- As a Bard, you have learned Cure Wounds, and are therefore able to cast it.
- As a Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is part of the Warlock Spell List for you,
Therefore, you've met the criteria for this Boon, and ought to be able to use it in this manner.
The implication of this is that you probably don't even need to have actual spellcasting levels: the way this is written, A Firbolg Player Character, who will have the ability to cast (once per Short Rest) the spells Detect Magic and Disguise Self, would be eligible for this boon because they are "able to cast" both of those spells, both of which are on the Wizard Spell List, even if they themselves are a Fighter with no spellcasting levels or levels in classes which permit spellcasting.
Note that this might not work for a Divine Soul Sorcerer with Cleric spells, because the specification for them is a little different:
When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you.
For Divine Sorcerers, the cause for a spell to count as a sorcerer spell is specifically contingent on having selected to learn it. So in this case, the Sorcerer would only be able to use this boon with a cleric spell if they specifically learn said spell through their Divine Sorcerer features.
Boons are almost exclusively in the realm of DM fiat
While the RAW answer might suggest that this is viable, DMs are not required to provide Boons at all, or at the particular discretion of the players receiving them, or according to the letter of the capabilities specified by said Boons. So if a DM says that they would or would not permit this particular combo, I don't think an appeal to RAW would justify overturning their decision.
Personally, as a DM, I don't agree with the class restriction in the first place (what 1st level spell becomes overpowered by this Boon that wasn't already accessible to those three classes in the first place???), but I can't make assumptions about what your DM will consider reasonable or unreasonable.
One other wrinkle
It's not clear from context whether the intent of the Boon is to only permit spells that are normally from the Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer spell lists. It may be that that is the intended interpretation of the wording of this Boon, and as such, it would negate this use of the Boon, but short of a clarifying response from Crawford, we can't make assumptions on this front.
answered 1 hour ago
Xirema
8,8352563
For a spell to be a "warlock spell" you need to first learn the spell via Pact Magic or another feature that calls it a warlock spell. Otherwise it's just a spell on your warlock spell list
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
@DavidCoffron No part of the Celestial Warlock feature specifically says that the spells added by this feature "become Warlock Spells", so if I take your comment as correct, that implies that even if they learn those spells as a Celestial Warlock, none of said spells are, in fact, "Warlock Spells" by any meaningful definition, including the spellcasting modifier used to cast them or by any other feature that may or may not interact with their being a "Warlock Spell". Since that would have pretty strange implications on how the class works, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
the feature only says they are added to the spell list. This makes them eligible for Pact Magic learning which in turn makes them become warlock spells. They aren't warlock spells automatically
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
RAW, Probably Yes
The contention, of course, boils down to what constitutes a spell being on a given class' spell list, and whether or not that makes it a "X spell". The entry for Celestial Warlock, where its additional spells are listed, has this to say:
The Celestial lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a warlock spell. The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you.
Full stop, the class feature specifies that these spells are added to the warlock spell list for you. So as a [part-]Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is in the Warlock Spell List for you, which suggests that for all intents and purposes, it counts as a "Warlock Spell" for you, and therefore, ought to qualify when receiving the Boon of Spell Mastery.
The Boon of Spell Mastery demands that you be capable of casting Cure Wounds (which your level in Celestial Warlock ensures is part of the list), but does not explicitly specify that you be able to cast it as part of that class. It merely says
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast.
So,
- As a Bard, you have learned Cure Wounds, and are therefore able to cast it.
- As a Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is part of the Warlock Spell List for you,
Therefore, you've met the criteria for this Boon, and ought to be able to use it in this manner.
The implication of this is that you probably don't even need to have actual spellcasting levels: the way this is written, A Firbolg Player Character, who will have the ability to cast (once per Short Rest) the spells Detect Magic and Disguise Self, would be eligible for this boon because they are "able to cast" both of those spells, both of which are on the Wizard Spell List, even if they themselves are a Fighter with no spellcasting levels or levels in classes which permit spellcasting.
Note that this might not work for a Divine Soul Sorcerer with Cleric spells, because the specification for them is a little different:
When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you.
For Divine Sorcerers, the cause for a spell to count as a sorcerer spell is specifically contingent on having selected to learn it. So in this case, the Sorcerer would only be able to use this boon with a cleric spell if they specifically learn said spell through their Divine Sorcerer features.
Boons are almost exclusively in the realm of DM fiat
While the RAW answer might suggest that this is viable, DMs are not required to provide Boons at all, or at the particular discretion of the players receiving them, or according to the letter of the capabilities specified by said Boons. So if a DM says that they would or would not permit this particular combo, I don't think an appeal to RAW would justify overturning their decision.
Personally, as a DM, I don't agree with the class restriction in the first place (what 1st level spell becomes overpowered by this Boon that wasn't already accessible to those three classes in the first place???), but I can't make assumptions about what your DM will consider reasonable or unreasonable.
One other wrinkle
It's not clear from context whether the intent of the Boon is to only permit spells that are normally from the Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer spell lists. It may be that that is the intended interpretation of the wording of this Boon, and as such, it would negate this use of the Boon, but short of a clarifying response from Crawford, we can't make assumptions on this front.
answered 1 hour ago
Xirema
8,8352563
For a spell to be a "warlock spell" you need to first learn the spell via Pact Magic or another feature that calls it a warlock spell. Otherwise it's just a spell on your warlock spell list
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
@DavidCoffron No part of the Celestial Warlock feature specifically says that the spells added by this feature "become Warlock Spells", so if I take your comment as correct, that implies that even if they learn those spells as a Celestial Warlock, none of said spells are, in fact, "Warlock Spells" by any meaningful definition, including the spellcasting modifier used to cast them or by any other feature that may or may not interact with their being a "Warlock Spell". Since that would have pretty strange implications on how the class works, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
the feature only says they are added to the spell list. This makes them eligible for Pact Magic learning which in turn makes them become warlock spells. They aren't warlock spells automatically
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
RAW, Probably Yes
The contention, of course, boils down to what constitutes a spell being on a given class' spell list, and whether or not that makes it a "X spell". The entry for Celestial Warlock, where its additional spells are listed, has this to say:
The Celestial lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a warlock spell. The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you.
Full stop, the class feature specifies that these spells are added to the warlock spell list for you. So as a [part-]Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is in the Warlock Spell List for you, which suggests that for all intents and purposes, it counts as a "Warlock Spell" for you, and therefore, ought to qualify when receiving the Boon of Spell Mastery.
The Boon of Spell Mastery demands that you be capable of casting Cure Wounds (which your level in Celestial Warlock ensures is part of the list), but does not explicitly specify that you be able to cast it as part of that class. It merely says
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast.
So,
- As a Bard, you have learned Cure Wounds, and are therefore able to cast it.
- As a Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is part of the Warlock Spell List for you,
Therefore, you've met the criteria for this Boon, and ought to be able to use it in this manner.
The implication of this is that you probably don't even need to have actual spellcasting levels: the way this is written, A Firbolg Player Character, who will have the ability to cast (once per Short Rest) the spells Detect Magic and Disguise Self, would be eligible for this boon because they are "able to cast" both of those spells, both of which are on the Wizard Spell List, even if they themselves are a Fighter with no spellcasting levels or levels in classes which permit spellcasting.
Note that this might not work for a Divine Soul Sorcerer with Cleric spells, because the specification for them is a little different:
When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you.
For Divine Sorcerers, the cause for a spell to count as a sorcerer spell is specifically contingent on having selected to learn it. So in this case, the Sorcerer would only be able to use this boon with a cleric spell if they specifically learn said spell through their Divine Sorcerer features.
Boons are almost exclusively in the realm of DM fiat
While the RAW answer might suggest that this is viable, DMs are not required to provide Boons at all, or at the particular discretion of the players receiving them, or according to the letter of the capabilities specified by said Boons. So if a DM says that they would or would not permit this particular combo, I don't think an appeal to RAW would justify overturning their decision.
Personally, as a DM, I don't agree with the class restriction in the first place (what 1st level spell becomes overpowered by this Boon that wasn't already accessible to those three classes in the first place???), but I can't make assumptions about what your DM will consider reasonable or unreasonable.
One other wrinkle
It's not clear from context whether the intent of the Boon is to only permit spells that are normally from the Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer spell lists. It may be that that is the intended interpretation of the wording of this Boon, and as such, it would negate this use of the Boon, but short of a clarifying response from Crawford, we can't make assumptions on this front.
answered 1 hour ago
Xirema
8,8352563
RAW, Probably Yes
The contention, of course, boils down to what constitutes a spell being on a given class' spell list, and whether or not that makes it a "X spell". The entry for Celestial Warlock, where its additional spells are listed, has this to say:
The Celestial lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a warlock spell. The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you.
Full stop, the class feature specifies that these spells are added to the warlock spell list for you. So as a [part-]Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is in the Warlock Spell List for you, which suggests that for all intents and purposes, it counts as a "Warlock Spell" for you, and therefore, ought to qualify when receiving the Boon of Spell Mastery.
The Boon of Spell Mastery demands that you be capable of casting Cure Wounds (which your level in Celestial Warlock ensures is part of the list), but does not explicitly specify that you be able to cast it as part of that class. It merely says
Choose one 1st-level sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell that you can cast.
So,
- As a Bard, you have learned Cure Wounds, and are therefore able to cast it.
- As a Celestial Warlock, the spell Cure Wounds is part of the Warlock Spell List for you,
Therefore, you've met the criteria for this Boon, and ought to be able to use it in this manner.
The implication of this is that you probably don't even need to have actual spellcasting levels: the way this is written, A Firbolg Player Character, who will have the ability to cast (once per Short Rest) the spells Detect Magic and Disguise Self, would be eligible for this boon because they are "able to cast" both of those spells, both of which are on the Wizard Spell List, even if they themselves are a Fighter with no spellcasting levels or levels in classes which permit spellcasting.
Note that this might not work for a Divine Soul Sorcerer with Cleric spells, because the specification for them is a little different:
When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you.
For Divine Sorcerers, the cause for a spell to count as a sorcerer spell is specifically contingent on having selected to learn it. So in this case, the Sorcerer would only be able to use this boon with a cleric spell if they specifically learn said spell through their Divine Sorcerer features.
Boons are almost exclusively in the realm of DM fiat
While the RAW answer might suggest that this is viable, DMs are not required to provide Boons at all, or at the particular discretion of the players receiving them, or according to the letter of the capabilities specified by said Boons. So if a DM says that they would or would not permit this particular combo, I don't think an appeal to RAW would justify overturning their decision.
Personally, as a DM, I don't agree with the class restriction in the first place (what 1st level spell becomes overpowered by this Boon that wasn't already accessible to those three classes in the first place???), but I can't make assumptions about what your DM will consider reasonable or unreasonable.
One other wrinkle
It's not clear from context whether the intent of the Boon is to only permit spells that are normally from the Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer spell lists. It may be that that is the intended interpretation of the wording of this Boon, and as such, it would negate this use of the Boon, but short of a clarifying response from Crawford, we can't make assumptions on this front.
answered 1 hour ago
Xirema
8,8352563
edited 44 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
Xirema
8,8352563
answered 1 hour ago
Xirema
8,8352563
answered 1 hour ago
Xirema
8,8352563
8,8352563
For a spell to be a "warlock spell" you need to first learn the spell via Pact Magic or another feature that calls it a warlock spell. Otherwise it's just a spell on your warlock spell list
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
@DavidCoffron No part of the Celestial Warlock feature specifically says that the spells added by this feature "become Warlock Spells", so if I take your comment as correct, that implies that even if they learn those spells as a Celestial Warlock, none of said spells are, in fact, "Warlock Spells" by any meaningful definition, including the spellcasting modifier used to cast them or by any other feature that may or may not interact with their being a "Warlock Spell". Since that would have pretty strange implications on how the class works, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
the feature only says they are added to the spell list. This makes them eligible for Pact Magic learning which in turn makes them become warlock spells. They aren't warlock spells automatically
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
For a spell to be a "warlock spell" you need to first learn the spell via Pact Magic or another feature that calls it a warlock spell. Otherwise it's just a spell on your warlock spell list
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
@DavidCoffron No part of the Celestial Warlock feature specifically says that the spells added by this feature "become Warlock Spells", so if I take your comment as correct, that implies that even if they learn those spells as a Celestial Warlock, none of said spells are, in fact, "Warlock Spells" by any meaningful definition, including the spellcasting modifier used to cast them or by any other feature that may or may not interact with their being a "Warlock Spell". Since that would have pretty strange implications on how the class works, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
the feature only says they are added to the spell list. This makes them eligible for Pact Magic learning which in turn makes them become warlock spells. They aren't warlock spells automatically
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
For a spell to be a "warlock spell" you need to first learn the spell via Pact Magic or another feature that calls it a warlock spell. Otherwise it's just a spell on your warlock spell list
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
For a spell to be a "warlock spell" you need to first learn the spell via Pact Magic or another feature that calls it a warlock spell. Otherwise it's just a spell on your warlock spell list
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
@DavidCoffron No part of the Celestial Warlock feature specifically says that the spells added by this feature "become Warlock Spells", so if I take your comment as correct, that implies that even if they learn those spells as a Celestial Warlock, none of said spells are, in fact, "Warlock Spells" by any meaningful definition, including the spellcasting modifier used to cast them or by any other feature that may or may not interact with their being a "Warlock Spell". Since that would have pretty strange implications on how the class works, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
@DavidCoffron No part of the Celestial Warlock feature specifically says that the spells added by this feature "become Warlock Spells", so if I take your comment as correct, that implies that even if they learn those spells as a Celestial Warlock, none of said spells are, in fact, "Warlock Spells" by any meaningful definition, including the spellcasting modifier used to cast them or by any other feature that may or may not interact with their being a "Warlock Spell". Since that would have pretty strange implications on how the class works, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
the feature only says they are added to the spell list. This makes them eligible for Pact Magic learning which in turn makes them become warlock spells. They aren't warlock spells automatically
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
the feature only says they are added to the spell list. This makes them eligible for Pact Magic learning which in turn makes them become warlock spells. They aren't warlock spells automatically
– David Coffron
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
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Epic Boons can be found starting on page 231 of the DMG.
– Szega
1 hour ago
@NautArch It's a feature of the Celestial Warlock class. Ten spells, one of which is Cure Wounds, are "added to the Warlock Spell List" for that class.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
You should probably add the text of the Celestial Warlock "Expanded Spell List" feature just so its text is easily visible to would-be answers.
– Xirema
1 hour ago
The question in the body is the inverse of the question in the title. I recommend one be switched to provide more coherent answers
– inthemanual
1 hour ago
@NautArch I read it as them asking if they need to know it for it to count as a warlock spell or if it being on the list and being able to cast it elsewhere is good enough.
– David Coffron
1 hour ago