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Why don't jetliners maneuver to avoid a bird strike if spotted in time?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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3
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With 75%* of the bird strikes hitting the wings and engines, why isn't there any training to avoid such strikes if a flock was spotted with enough time to react?
It seems what Boeing recommends* is to ride it out then assess the damage.
Avoid or minimize maneuvering at low altitude to avoid birds.
(...)
Fly the airplane and maintain flight path control.
In the overly dramatized Flying Wild Alaska TV show one time the pilot of a light plane supposedly banked to avoid the birds. (YouTube)
Is there a correct banking maneuver? Suppose the flock is heading for the right wing, here's what I think of the two alternatives:
- Dip the right wing to move the upwash away from the flock's path, or
- Raise the right wing because birds are better divers than climbers.
In US Airways 1549 both engines suffered, and I don't know if dipping one wing or the other could have saved one engine. According to the CVR transcript, from announcing "birds" to the strike there was a full second. With a typical human reaction time of 0.3 seconds to announce birds, there would have still been a complete second to roll the plane one way or the other. Enough to roll 15° in an Airbus (max normal law FBW roll rate is 15°/s).
Why is riding it out better than a bank? (Worst outcome is the same for doing nothing and doing something.)
I'm neither claiming a solution, nor discussing flight 1549 in particular, rather inquiring about the flaws in my understanding of bird strikes and the related avoidance maneuvers.
* https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2011_q3/4/
flight-training bird-strike
asked 3 hours ago
ymb1
60.5k5190318
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
With 75%* of the bird strikes hitting the wings and engines, why isn't there any training to avoid such strikes if a flock was spotted with enough time to react?
It seems what Boeing recommends* is to ride it out then assess the damage.
Avoid or minimize maneuvering at low altitude to avoid birds.
(...)
Fly the airplane and maintain flight path control.
In the overly dramatized Flying Wild Alaska TV show one time the pilot of a light plane supposedly banked to avoid the birds. (YouTube)
Is there a correct banking maneuver? Suppose the flock is heading for the right wing, here's what I think of the two alternatives:
- Dip the right wing to move the upwash away from the flock's path, or
- Raise the right wing because birds are better divers than climbers.
In US Airways 1549 both engines suffered, and I don't know if dipping one wing or the other could have saved one engine. According to the CVR transcript, from announcing "birds" to the strike there was a full second. With a typical human reaction time of 0.3 seconds to announce birds, there would have still been a complete second to roll the plane one way or the other. Enough to roll 15° in an Airbus (max normal law FBW roll rate is 15°/s).
Why is riding it out better than a bank? (Worst outcome is the same for doing nothing and doing something.)
I'm neither claiming a solution, nor discussing flight 1549 in particular, rather inquiring about the flaws in my understanding of bird strikes and the related avoidance maneuvers.
* https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2011_q3/4/
flight-training bird-strike
asked 3 hours ago
ymb1
60.5k5190318
1
Wouldn't that require psychic pilots to know what moves the birds will make ?
– blacksmith37
1 hour ago
1
That would be nice, second best thing would be any studies on avian behavior when faced with flying metal if you know any.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
The short answer, whether flying a small or large aircraft, is that birds are better at maneuvering than you are.
– Terry
47 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
With 75%* of the bird strikes hitting the wings and engines, why isn't there any training to avoid such strikes if a flock was spotted with enough time to react?
It seems what Boeing recommends* is to ride it out then assess the damage.
Avoid or minimize maneuvering at low altitude to avoid birds.
(...)
Fly the airplane and maintain flight path control.
In the overly dramatized Flying Wild Alaska TV show one time the pilot of a light plane supposedly banked to avoid the birds. (YouTube)
Is there a correct banking maneuver? Suppose the flock is heading for the right wing, here's what I think of the two alternatives:
- Dip the right wing to move the upwash away from the flock's path, or
- Raise the right wing because birds are better divers than climbers.
In US Airways 1549 both engines suffered, and I don't know if dipping one wing or the other could have saved one engine. According to the CVR transcript, from announcing "birds" to the strike there was a full second. With a typical human reaction time of 0.3 seconds to announce birds, there would have still been a complete second to roll the plane one way or the other. Enough to roll 15° in an Airbus (max normal law FBW roll rate is 15°/s).
Why is riding it out better than a bank? (Worst outcome is the same for doing nothing and doing something.)
I'm neither claiming a solution, nor discussing flight 1549 in particular, rather inquiring about the flaws in my understanding of bird strikes and the related avoidance maneuvers.
* https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2011_q3/4/
flight-training bird-strike
asked 3 hours ago
ymb1
60.5k5190318
With 75%* of the bird strikes hitting the wings and engines, why isn't there any training to avoid such strikes if a flock was spotted with enough time to react?
It seems what Boeing recommends* is to ride it out then assess the damage.
Avoid or minimize maneuvering at low altitude to avoid birds.
(...)
Fly the airplane and maintain flight path control.
In the overly dramatized Flying Wild Alaska TV show one time the pilot of a light plane supposedly banked to avoid the birds. (YouTube)
Is there a correct banking maneuver? Suppose the flock is heading for the right wing, here's what I think of the two alternatives:
- Dip the right wing to move the upwash away from the flock's path, or
- Raise the right wing because birds are better divers than climbers.
In US Airways 1549 both engines suffered, and I don't know if dipping one wing or the other could have saved one engine. According to the CVR transcript, from announcing "birds" to the strike there was a full second. With a typical human reaction time of 0.3 seconds to announce birds, there would have still been a complete second to roll the plane one way or the other. Enough to roll 15° in an Airbus (max normal law FBW roll rate is 15°/s).
Why is riding it out better than a bank? (Worst outcome is the same for doing nothing and doing something.)
I'm neither claiming a solution, nor discussing flight 1549 in particular, rather inquiring about the flaws in my understanding of bird strikes and the related avoidance maneuvers.
* https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/2011_q3/4/
flight-training bird-strike
flight-training bird-strike
asked 3 hours ago
ymb1
60.5k5190318
asked 3 hours ago
ymb1
60.5k5190318
asked 3 hours ago
ymb1
60.5k5190318
asked 3 hours ago
ymb1
60.5k5190318
asked 3 hours ago
ymb1
60.5k5190318
60.5k5190318
1
Wouldn't that require psychic pilots to know what moves the birds will make ?
– blacksmith37
1 hour ago
1
That would be nice, second best thing would be any studies on avian behavior when faced with flying metal if you know any.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
The short answer, whether flying a small or large aircraft, is that birds are better at maneuvering than you are.
– Terry
47 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1
Wouldn't that require psychic pilots to know what moves the birds will make ?
– blacksmith37
1 hour ago
1
That would be nice, second best thing would be any studies on avian behavior when faced with flying metal if you know any.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
The short answer, whether flying a small or large aircraft, is that birds are better at maneuvering than you are.
– Terry
47 mins ago
1
1
Wouldn't that require psychic pilots to know what moves the birds will make ?
– blacksmith37
1 hour ago
Wouldn't that require psychic pilots to know what moves the birds will make ?
– blacksmith37
1 hour ago
1
1
That would be nice, second best thing would be any studies on avian behavior when faced with flying metal if you know any.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
That would be nice, second best thing would be any studies on avian behavior when faced with flying metal if you know any.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
1
The short answer, whether flying a small or large aircraft, is that birds are better at maneuvering than you are.
– Terry
47 mins ago
The short answer, whether flying a small or large aircraft, is that birds are better at maneuvering than you are.
– Terry
47 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
If you're low, slow, and heavy (say, early in climb with full passenger and fuel load for a transcontinental or transoceanic leg), just dipping a wing can result in a stall and crash if you lose power while in a more than minimal bank.
The reasoning goes like this: the birds MIGHT not hit you. If they do, it's unlikely you'll loose all engine power. Even if you do lose all power, if the aircraft is level wings and not maneuvering, you have the most options for a safe landing (return to port, land on a nearby strip, land on flat ground or a road, etc.).
A sharp maneuver at that stage of a flight can itself cause a crash, never mind what will happen if you get a bird strike anyway.
answered 3 hours ago
Zeiss Ikon
1,31310
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
If you're low, slow, and heavy (say, early in climb with full passenger and fuel load for a transcontinental or transoceanic leg), just dipping a wing can result in a stall and crash if you lose power while in a more than minimal bank.
The reasoning goes like this: the birds MIGHT not hit you. If they do, it's unlikely you'll loose all engine power. Even if you do lose all power, if the aircraft is level wings and not maneuvering, you have the most options for a safe landing (return to port, land on a nearby strip, land on flat ground or a road, etc.).
A sharp maneuver at that stage of a flight can itself cause a crash, never mind what will happen if you get a bird strike anyway.
answered 3 hours ago
Zeiss Ikon
1,31310
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
If you're low, slow, and heavy (say, early in climb with full passenger and fuel load for a transcontinental or transoceanic leg), just dipping a wing can result in a stall and crash if you lose power while in a more than minimal bank.
The reasoning goes like this: the birds MIGHT not hit you. If they do, it's unlikely you'll loose all engine power. Even if you do lose all power, if the aircraft is level wings and not maneuvering, you have the most options for a safe landing (return to port, land on a nearby strip, land on flat ground or a road, etc.).
A sharp maneuver at that stage of a flight can itself cause a crash, never mind what will happen if you get a bird strike anyway.
answered 3 hours ago
Zeiss Ikon
1,31310
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
If you're low, slow, and heavy (say, early in climb with full passenger and fuel load for a transcontinental or transoceanic leg), just dipping a wing can result in a stall and crash if you lose power while in a more than minimal bank.
The reasoning goes like this: the birds MIGHT not hit you. If they do, it's unlikely you'll loose all engine power. Even if you do lose all power, if the aircraft is level wings and not maneuvering, you have the most options for a safe landing (return to port, land on a nearby strip, land on flat ground or a road, etc.).
A sharp maneuver at that stage of a flight can itself cause a crash, never mind what will happen if you get a bird strike anyway.
answered 3 hours ago
Zeiss Ikon
1,31310
If you're low, slow, and heavy (say, early in climb with full passenger and fuel load for a transcontinental or transoceanic leg), just dipping a wing can result in a stall and crash if you lose power while in a more than minimal bank.
The reasoning goes like this: the birds MIGHT not hit you. If they do, it's unlikely you'll loose all engine power. Even if you do lose all power, if the aircraft is level wings and not maneuvering, you have the most options for a safe landing (return to port, land on a nearby strip, land on flat ground or a road, etc.).
A sharp maneuver at that stage of a flight can itself cause a crash, never mind what will happen if you get a bird strike anyway.
answered 3 hours ago
Zeiss Ikon
1,31310
answered 3 hours ago
Zeiss Ikon
1,31310
answered 3 hours ago
Zeiss Ikon
1,31310
answered 3 hours ago
Zeiss Ikon
1,31310
1,31310
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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1
Wouldn't that require psychic pilots to know what moves the birds will make ?
– blacksmith37
1 hour ago
1
That would be nice, second best thing would be any studies on avian behavior when faced with flying metal if you know any.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
The short answer, whether flying a small or large aircraft, is that birds are better at maneuvering than you are.
– Terry
47 mins ago