Is Burning Hands’ area of effect a “thin sheet of flame” or is it a cone?

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Burning hands says two things about the shape of the spell’s area of effect (PHB, p. 220):




  1. a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips




  2. Each creature in a 15-foot cone [is affected by the spell]



These seem to conflict, as a thin sheet of flame and the definition of the cone AoE (PHB, p. 204) are different shapes.



What is the area of effect of burning hands?



(This came up in the context of answers to How to resolve Burning Hands with a Dying Ally)










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  • 1




    @DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
    – Slagmoth
    1 hour ago










  • This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
    – KorvinStarmast
    11 mins ago
















up vote
5
down vote

favorite
1












Burning hands says two things about the shape of the spell’s area of effect (PHB, p. 220):




  1. a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips




  2. Each creature in a 15-foot cone [is affected by the spell]



These seem to conflict, as a thin sheet of flame and the definition of the cone AoE (PHB, p. 204) are different shapes.



What is the area of effect of burning hands?



(This came up in the context of answers to How to resolve Burning Hands with a Dying Ally)










share|improve this question

















  • 1




    @DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
    – Slagmoth
    1 hour ago










  • This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
    – KorvinStarmast
    11 mins ago












up vote
5
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
5
down vote

favorite
1






1





Burning hands says two things about the shape of the spell’s area of effect (PHB, p. 220):




  1. a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips




  2. Each creature in a 15-foot cone [is affected by the spell]



These seem to conflict, as a thin sheet of flame and the definition of the cone AoE (PHB, p. 204) are different shapes.



What is the area of effect of burning hands?



(This came up in the context of answers to How to resolve Burning Hands with a Dying Ally)










share|improve this question













Burning hands says two things about the shape of the spell’s area of effect (PHB, p. 220):




  1. a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips




  2. Each creature in a 15-foot cone [is affected by the spell]



These seem to conflict, as a thin sheet of flame and the definition of the cone AoE (PHB, p. 204) are different shapes.



What is the area of effect of burning hands?



(This came up in the context of answers to How to resolve Burning Hands with a Dying Ally)







dnd-5e spells area-of-effect






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asked 1 hour ago









SevenSidedDie♦

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  • 1




    @DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
    – Slagmoth
    1 hour ago










  • This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
    – KorvinStarmast
    11 mins ago












  • 1




    @DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
    – Slagmoth
    1 hour ago










  • This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
    – KorvinStarmast
    11 mins ago







1




1




@DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
– Slagmoth
1 hour ago




@DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
– Slagmoth
1 hour ago












This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
– KorvinStarmast
11 mins ago




This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
– KorvinStarmast
11 mins ago










2 Answers
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3
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Functionally it is a 3D cone



While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.



The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.






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    up vote
    3
    down vote













    It's a cone (in two out of three points)



    If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.




    Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
    (15-foot cone);
    Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous




    As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".



    But wait: is it in two or three dimension?



    If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:




    Cone

    A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A cone’s width at a given point along its length is equal to that point’s distance from the point of origin. A cone’s area of effect specifies its maximum length. A cone’s point of origin is not included in the cone’s area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)




    AOE shapes



    That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.



    Plain English? It's a cone.



    DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)



    The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.



    @Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.



    Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun




    For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)

    Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
    round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
    segment Saving Throw: None



    When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
    his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
    fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
    other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
    jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
    magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
    damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
    throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
    burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.




    From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.



    From 3.x




    Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
    Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
    ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
    Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes



    A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.




    Area or Volume of effect?



    Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."






    share|improve this answer






















    • The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
      – Rubiksmoose
      43 mins ago










    • @Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
      – KorvinStarmast
      23 mins ago










    Your Answer




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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
    2






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    up vote
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    down vote













    Functionally it is a 3D cone



    While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.



    The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.






    share|improve this answer


























      up vote
      3
      down vote













      Functionally it is a 3D cone



      While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.



      The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.






      share|improve this answer
























        up vote
        3
        down vote










        up vote
        3
        down vote









        Functionally it is a 3D cone



        While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.



        The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.






        share|improve this answer














        Functionally it is a 3D cone



        While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.



        The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 1 hour ago

























        answered 1 hour ago









        Sir Cinnamon

        4,4471240




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            up vote
            3
            down vote













            It's a cone (in two out of three points)



            If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.




            Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
            (15-foot cone);
            Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous




            As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".



            But wait: is it in two or three dimension?



            If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:




            Cone

            A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A cone’s width at a given point along its length is equal to that point’s distance from the point of origin. A cone’s area of effect specifies its maximum length. A cone’s point of origin is not included in the cone’s area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)




            AOE shapes



            That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.



            Plain English? It's a cone.



            DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)



            The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.



            @Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.



            Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun




            For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)

            Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
            round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
            segment Saving Throw: None



            When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
            his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
            fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
            other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
            jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
            magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
            damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
            throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
            burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.




            From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.



            From 3.x




            Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
            Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
            ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
            Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes



            A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.




            Area or Volume of effect?



            Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."






            share|improve this answer






















            • The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
              – Rubiksmoose
              43 mins ago










            • @Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
              – KorvinStarmast
              23 mins ago














            up vote
            3
            down vote













            It's a cone (in two out of three points)



            If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.




            Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
            (15-foot cone);
            Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous




            As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".



            But wait: is it in two or three dimension?



            If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:




            Cone

            A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A cone’s width at a given point along its length is equal to that point’s distance from the point of origin. A cone’s area of effect specifies its maximum length. A cone’s point of origin is not included in the cone’s area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)




            AOE shapes



            That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.



            Plain English? It's a cone.



            DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)



            The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.



            @Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.



            Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun




            For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)

            Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
            round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
            segment Saving Throw: None



            When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
            his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
            fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
            other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
            jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
            magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
            damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
            throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
            burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.




            From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.



            From 3.x




            Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
            Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
            ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
            Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes



            A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.




            Area or Volume of effect?



            Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."






            share|improve this answer






















            • The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
              – Rubiksmoose
              43 mins ago










            • @Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
              – KorvinStarmast
              23 mins ago












            up vote
            3
            down vote










            up vote
            3
            down vote









            It's a cone (in two out of three points)



            If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.




            Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
            (15-foot cone);
            Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous




            As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".



            But wait: is it in two or three dimension?



            If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:




            Cone

            A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A cone’s width at a given point along its length is equal to that point’s distance from the point of origin. A cone’s area of effect specifies its maximum length. A cone’s point of origin is not included in the cone’s area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)




            AOE shapes



            That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.



            Plain English? It's a cone.



            DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)



            The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.



            @Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.



            Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun




            For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)

            Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
            round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
            segment Saving Throw: None



            When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
            his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
            fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
            other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
            jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
            magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
            damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
            throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
            burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.




            From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.



            From 3.x




            Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
            Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
            ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
            Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes



            A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.




            Area or Volume of effect?



            Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."






            share|improve this answer














            It's a cone (in two out of three points)



            If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.




            Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
            (15-foot cone);
            Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous




            As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".



            But wait: is it in two or three dimension?



            If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:




            Cone

            A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A cone’s width at a given point along its length is equal to that point’s distance from the point of origin. A cone’s area of effect specifies its maximum length. A cone’s point of origin is not included in the cone’s area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)




            AOE shapes



            That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.



            Plain English? It's a cone.



            DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)



            The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.



            @Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.



            Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun




            For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)

            Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
            round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
            segment Saving Throw: None



            When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
            his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
            fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
            other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
            jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
            magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
            damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
            throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
            burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.




            From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.



            From 3.x




            Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
            Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
            ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
            Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes



            A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.




            Area or Volume of effect?



            Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 28 mins ago

























            answered 55 mins ago









            KorvinStarmast

            67.1k15211369




            67.1k15211369











            • The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
              – Rubiksmoose
              43 mins ago










            • @Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
              – KorvinStarmast
              23 mins ago
















            • The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
              – Rubiksmoose
              43 mins ago










            • @Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
              – KorvinStarmast
              23 mins ago















            The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
            – Rubiksmoose
            43 mins ago




            The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
            – Rubiksmoose
            43 mins ago












            @Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
            – KorvinStarmast
            23 mins ago




            @Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
            – KorvinStarmast
            23 mins ago

















             

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