Is Burning Handsâ area of effect a âÂÂthin sheet of flameâ or is it a cone?
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Burning hands says two things about the shape of the spellâÂÂs area of effect (PHB, p. 220):
a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips
Each creature in a 15-foot cone [is affected by the spell]
These seem to conflict, as a thin sheet of flame and the definition of the cone AoE (PHB, p. 204) are different shapes.
What is the area of effect of burning hands?
(This came up in the context of answers to How to resolve Burning Hands with a Dying Ally)
dnd-5e spells area-of-effect
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
Burning hands says two things about the shape of the spellâÂÂs area of effect (PHB, p. 220):
a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips
Each creature in a 15-foot cone [is affected by the spell]
These seem to conflict, as a thin sheet of flame and the definition of the cone AoE (PHB, p. 204) are different shapes.
What is the area of effect of burning hands?
(This came up in the context of answers to How to resolve Burning Hands with a Dying Ally)
dnd-5e spells area-of-effect
1
@DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
â Slagmoth
1 hour ago
This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
â KorvinStarmast
11 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
Burning hands says two things about the shape of the spellâÂÂs area of effect (PHB, p. 220):
a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips
Each creature in a 15-foot cone [is affected by the spell]
These seem to conflict, as a thin sheet of flame and the definition of the cone AoE (PHB, p. 204) are different shapes.
What is the area of effect of burning hands?
(This came up in the context of answers to How to resolve Burning Hands with a Dying Ally)
dnd-5e spells area-of-effect
Burning hands says two things about the shape of the spellâÂÂs area of effect (PHB, p. 220):
a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips
Each creature in a 15-foot cone [is affected by the spell]
These seem to conflict, as a thin sheet of flame and the definition of the cone AoE (PHB, p. 204) are different shapes.
What is the area of effect of burning hands?
(This came up in the context of answers to How to resolve Burning Hands with a Dying Ally)
dnd-5e spells area-of-effect
dnd-5e spells area-of-effect
asked 1 hour ago
SevenSidedDieâ¦
199k25633913
199k25633913
1
@DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
â Slagmoth
1 hour ago
This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
â KorvinStarmast
11 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1
@DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
â Slagmoth
1 hour ago
This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
â KorvinStarmast
11 mins ago
1
1
@DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
â Slagmoth
1 hour ago
@DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
â Slagmoth
1 hour ago
This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
â KorvinStarmast
11 mins ago
This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
â KorvinStarmast
11 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
Functionally it is a 3D cone
While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.
The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
It's a cone (in two out of three points)
If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.
Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
(15-foot cone); Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous
As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".
But wait: is it in two or three dimension?
If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:
Cone
A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A coneâÂÂs width at a given point along its length is equal to that pointâÂÂs distance from the point of origin. A coneâÂÂs area of effect specifies its maximum length. A coneâÂÂs point of origin is not included in the coneâÂÂs area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)
That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.
Plain English? It's a cone.
DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)
The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.
@Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.
Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun
For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)
Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
segment Saving Throw: None
When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.
From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.
From 3.x
Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes
A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.
Area or Volume of effect?
Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."
The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
â Rubiksmoose
43 mins ago
@Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
â KorvinStarmast
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
Functionally it is a 3D cone
While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.
The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Functionally it is a 3D cone
While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.
The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Functionally it is a 3D cone
While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.
The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.
Functionally it is a 3D cone
While the description says it appears as though a thin sheet of flames shoots out (thin being subjective), for whatever reason you want to imagine it affects all creatures in a 15 foot 3D cone. It says that they all must save or take damage.
The two statements are not actually contradictions, and one actually describes the area hit and not only the shape of the visual effect. Potentially it's a thin sheet that moves rapidly around the cone, or rotates or passes across the area. For whatever reason you wish to flavour it as, the spell covers a 15 foot cone.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
Sir Cinnamon
4,4471240
4,4471240
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
It's a cone (in two out of three points)
If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.
Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
(15-foot cone); Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous
As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".
But wait: is it in two or three dimension?
If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:
Cone
A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A coneâÂÂs width at a given point along its length is equal to that pointâÂÂs distance from the point of origin. A coneâÂÂs area of effect specifies its maximum length. A coneâÂÂs point of origin is not included in the coneâÂÂs area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)
That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.
Plain English? It's a cone.
DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)
The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.
@Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.
Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun
For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)
Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
segment Saving Throw: None
When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.
From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.
From 3.x
Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes
A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.
Area or Volume of effect?
Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."
The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
â Rubiksmoose
43 mins ago
@Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
â KorvinStarmast
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
It's a cone (in two out of three points)
If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.
Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
(15-foot cone); Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous
As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".
But wait: is it in two or three dimension?
If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:
Cone
A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A coneâÂÂs width at a given point along its length is equal to that pointâÂÂs distance from the point of origin. A coneâÂÂs area of effect specifies its maximum length. A coneâÂÂs point of origin is not included in the coneâÂÂs area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)
That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.
Plain English? It's a cone.
DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)
The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.
@Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.
Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun
For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)
Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
segment Saving Throw: None
When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.
From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.
From 3.x
Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes
A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.
Area or Volume of effect?
Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."
The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
â Rubiksmoose
43 mins ago
@Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
â KorvinStarmast
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
It's a cone (in two out of three points)
If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.
Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
(15-foot cone); Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous
As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".
But wait: is it in two or three dimension?
If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:
Cone
A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A coneâÂÂs width at a given point along its length is equal to that pointâÂÂs distance from the point of origin. A coneâÂÂs area of effect specifies its maximum length. A coneâÂÂs point of origin is not included in the coneâÂÂs area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)
That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.
Plain English? It's a cone.
DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)
The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.
@Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.
Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun
For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)
Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
segment Saving Throw: None
When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.
From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.
From 3.x
Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes
A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.
Area or Volume of effect?
Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."
It's a cone (in two out of three points)
If you go to the spell header, you see the following data.
Burning Hands; 1st-level evocation; Casting Time: 1 action; Range: Self
(15-foot cone); Components: V, S; Duration: Instantaneous
As you note from the text, it mentions both "cone" and "thin sheet".
But wait: is it in two or three dimension?
If you go into the spell geometry discussion on p. 80, you get this under cone:
Cone
A cone extends in a direction you choose from its point of origin. A coneâÂÂs width at a given point along its length is equal to that pointâÂÂs distance from the point of origin. A coneâÂÂs area of effect specifies its maximum length. A coneâÂÂs point of origin is not included in the coneâÂÂs area of effect, unless you decide otherwise (Basic Rules, p. 80)
That rules text looks to like a two-dimensional basis for using this spell on a grid, but the illustration supports cone. You could argue that it is not a three dimensional cone, but more like a truncated pyramid, or a triangle on a grid. For theater of the mind play? Not so much.
Plain English? It's a cone.
DM call is needed here (because it isn't crystal clear)
The rules text does call it a cone twice in the spell description; a DM could rule reasonably that the three dimensional cone applies for a given situation like the one in the question you linked to. For most situations, the two dimensional and three dimensional cases are a wash.
@Slagmoth notes, and I suspect this is true, that the "sheet" is an artifact from a previous edition.
Aaaah, the confusion is part of the fun
For example, AD&D 1e(PHB p. 64-65). (Alteration)
Level: 1 / Range: 0 / Duration: 1
round / Area of Effect: Special Components: V, S Casting Time: 1
segment Saving Throw: None
When the magic-user casts this spell, jets of searing flame shoot from
his or her fingertips. Hands can only be held so as to send forth a
fan-like sheet of flames, as the magic-user's thumbs must touch each
other and fingers must be spread. The burning hands send out flame
jets of 3' length in a horizontal arc of about 120" in front of the
magic-user. Any creature in the area of flames takes 1 hit point of
damage for each level of experience of the spellcaster, and no saving
throw is possible. Inflammable materials touched by the fire will
burn, i.e. cloth, paper, parchment, thin wood, etc.
From 2e it's the same thing: jets, thumbs together, etc.
From 3.x
Burning Hands / Evocation [Fire] / Level: Fire 1,
Sor/Wiz 1 / Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15
ft. Area: Cone-shaped burst / Duration: Instantaneous Saving
Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes
A cone of searing flame shoots from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the flames takes 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Flammable materials burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action.
Area or Volume of effect?
Furthering the confusion, the text refers to the cone, and "area" versus "volume" for what is burned or subject to the magical effect. That may be done for ease of understanding by players and DM's who are not pedants, and who see a spell like this one, or like fireball or cone of cold, as being under the class of "area of effect" spells versus "single target spells."
edited 28 mins ago
answered 55 mins ago
KorvinStarmast
67.1k15211369
67.1k15211369
The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
â Rubiksmoose
43 mins ago
@Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
â KorvinStarmast
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
â Rubiksmoose
43 mins ago
@Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
â KorvinStarmast
23 mins ago
The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
â Rubiksmoose
43 mins ago
The picture under the AOE section of the PHB definitely shows a 3D cone right? What illustration supports it being 2D? Or am I misunderstanding you?
â Rubiksmoose
43 mins ago
@Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
â KorvinStarmast
23 mins ago
@Rubiksmoose thanks for the picture.
â KorvinStarmast
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
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1
@DavidCoffron A minor correction to your comment below... there are all sorts of instances of flavor text in 5e... it is agreed on this board by your linked question that it does not exist in the spell descriptions. I only say this to avoid possible confusion for future readers as well as the recipient of your comment.
â Slagmoth
1 hour ago
This certainly got us to put on our thinking caps! Thanks for carrying this question over from that other one.
â KorvinStarmast
11 mins ago