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Running baseband analog audio signal over cat 5 cable
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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What will happen to a single ended (not differential) 1Vpp analog audio signal(4khz bandwidth, not modulated) if it runs through long cat5 cable (length can be 50 meters)? How much signal voltage can drop? Can there be any change in frequency?
What will happen if the input signal is differential (say 0.5Vpp signal in each differential line)?
audio cables attenuation
asked 1 hour ago
adeel asif
111
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
What will happen to a single ended (not differential) 1Vpp analog audio signal(4khz bandwidth, not modulated) if it runs through long cat5 cable (length can be 50 meters)? How much signal voltage can drop? Can there be any change in frequency?
What will happen if the input signal is differential (say 0.5Vpp signal in each differential line)?
audio cables attenuation
asked 1 hour ago
adeel asif
111
1
Do you know what a telephone sounds like?
– Dave Tweed♦
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
What will happen to a single ended (not differential) 1Vpp analog audio signal(4khz bandwidth, not modulated) if it runs through long cat5 cable (length can be 50 meters)? How much signal voltage can drop? Can there be any change in frequency?
What will happen if the input signal is differential (say 0.5Vpp signal in each differential line)?
audio cables attenuation
asked 1 hour ago
adeel asif
111
What will happen to a single ended (not differential) 1Vpp analog audio signal(4khz bandwidth, not modulated) if it runs through long cat5 cable (length can be 50 meters)? How much signal voltage can drop? Can there be any change in frequency?
What will happen if the input signal is differential (say 0.5Vpp signal in each differential line)?
audio cables attenuation
audio cables attenuation
asked 1 hour ago
adeel asif
111
asked 1 hour ago
adeel asif
111
asked 1 hour ago
adeel asif
111
asked 1 hour ago
adeel asif
111
asked 1 hour ago
adeel asif
111
111
1
Do you know what a telephone sounds like?
– Dave Tweed♦
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
1
Do you know what a telephone sounds like?
– Dave Tweed♦
1 hour ago
1
1
Do you know what a telephone sounds like?
– Dave Tweed♦
1 hour ago
Do you know what a telephone sounds like?
– Dave Tweed♦
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
What will happen if the input signal is differential (say 0.5Vpp
signal in each differential line)?
When sending an analogue signal from one place to another the biggest hurdle usually faced is one of interference pick-up. To alleviate that you should aim to make the interference see the impedance of each differential wire the same. This is called balancing the impedances and leads to the term "a balanced transmission". It does not mean that you have to send signals differentially although this helps.
To balance the impedances on each wire, the wires firstly have to be very similar in construction and, of course, twisted pair is the usual solution but, the driving impedance needs to be the same for both the hot lead and the return wire. So, if you are driving the line with an op-amp, it is usual to put (say) 600 ohms in series with the hot-wire and the same impedance in series with the return wire.
This now means that any interference on the "pair" will produce the same interference voltage on each wire. At the receiving end, the input amplifier must be differential and present a balanced impedance to ground else you can modify the interference voltage on one wire with respect to the other and this means that the differential amplifier cannot adequately cancel that interference at its output.
Can there be any change in frequency?
There will be no change of frequency but there can be a relative attenuation of some frequencies with respect to others due to the complex input impedance presented by any cable at audio especially on long wires such as in telephones.
How much signal voltage can drop?
There won't be much attenuation for audio base-band on a 50m cable but, if in doubt, the cable can be modeled and attenuation figures acquired via simulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Andy aka
230k10171391
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Forget single ended signals - 50m is so long distance that any ground connection simultaneously at both ends make an enormous interference collecting loop. Hum and buzzes spoil the signals totally if they are only few hundred millivolts.
See Cat5 spec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable
All wave phenomenas at audio frequencies and 50m cable length are neglible. You can well think one pair as RC lowpass filter which has 10 Ohm resistor and C=2500pF. It alone affects virtually nothing, but the source resistance at the signal transmitting end will affect radically. If there's several kOhms at the transmitting end, you will get treble loss. Only 1500 Ohms can be tolerated for full 20kHz band audio. 4kHz allow 7500 Ohm, but the higher is the resistance, the more sensitive the system is to collect hum and other noises.
How much there's interfering fields in your operating environment. I cannot say it. An AC power cord side by side with your cable can cause troubles if the terminating resistance at both ends is high. You must do some tests.
answered 36 mins ago
user287001
8,2081415
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Your question is impossible to answer quantitatively since the level and type of interference along the cable is unknown, and you haven't told us how the end is terminated.
Look up the resistance per unit length of the cable you want to use. From that you can calculate the resistance in series with your signal. Don't forget that the signal makes a round trip, so the total wire length is twice the cable length.
That all said, sending single ended audio over a long unshielded cable sounds like a really bad idea to me.
My first reaction would be to send the data digitally. That's what cat 5 cable is intended for. You can easily send a few Mbit/s over one pair. To put this in persepective, 16 bit samples at 50 kHz rate (better than CD quality) is only 800 kbit/s.
Digital gives you a certain noise immunity directly. It also allows for easy common mode rejection at the receiving end, by using opto-isolators or pulse transformers.
My second choice would be to use one pair of the cat 5 cable to send differential audio. I would make the voltage higher than you suggest. That makes it larger relative to the inevitable noise along the way. A small audio transformer at the receiver is a easy way to eliminate most common mode noise, and that also removes the need to for a third wire to carry ground.
answered 1 hour ago
Olin Lathrop
277k28330778
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
What will happen if the input signal is differential (say 0.5Vpp
signal in each differential line)?
When sending an analogue signal from one place to another the biggest hurdle usually faced is one of interference pick-up. To alleviate that you should aim to make the interference see the impedance of each differential wire the same. This is called balancing the impedances and leads to the term "a balanced transmission". It does not mean that you have to send signals differentially although this helps.
To balance the impedances on each wire, the wires firstly have to be very similar in construction and, of course, twisted pair is the usual solution but, the driving impedance needs to be the same for both the hot lead and the return wire. So, if you are driving the line with an op-amp, it is usual to put (say) 600 ohms in series with the hot-wire and the same impedance in series with the return wire.
This now means that any interference on the "pair" will produce the same interference voltage on each wire. At the receiving end, the input amplifier must be differential and present a balanced impedance to ground else you can modify the interference voltage on one wire with respect to the other and this means that the differential amplifier cannot adequately cancel that interference at its output.
Can there be any change in frequency?
There will be no change of frequency but there can be a relative attenuation of some frequencies with respect to others due to the complex input impedance presented by any cable at audio especially on long wires such as in telephones.
How much signal voltage can drop?
There won't be much attenuation for audio base-band on a 50m cable but, if in doubt, the cable can be modeled and attenuation figures acquired via simulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Andy aka
230k10171391
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
What will happen if the input signal is differential (say 0.5Vpp
signal in each differential line)?
When sending an analogue signal from one place to another the biggest hurdle usually faced is one of interference pick-up. To alleviate that you should aim to make the interference see the impedance of each differential wire the same. This is called balancing the impedances and leads to the term "a balanced transmission". It does not mean that you have to send signals differentially although this helps.
To balance the impedances on each wire, the wires firstly have to be very similar in construction and, of course, twisted pair is the usual solution but, the driving impedance needs to be the same for both the hot lead and the return wire. So, if you are driving the line with an op-amp, it is usual to put (say) 600 ohms in series with the hot-wire and the same impedance in series with the return wire.
This now means that any interference on the "pair" will produce the same interference voltage on each wire. At the receiving end, the input amplifier must be differential and present a balanced impedance to ground else you can modify the interference voltage on one wire with respect to the other and this means that the differential amplifier cannot adequately cancel that interference at its output.
Can there be any change in frequency?
There will be no change of frequency but there can be a relative attenuation of some frequencies with respect to others due to the complex input impedance presented by any cable at audio especially on long wires such as in telephones.
How much signal voltage can drop?
There won't be much attenuation for audio base-band on a 50m cable but, if in doubt, the cable can be modeled and attenuation figures acquired via simulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Andy aka
230k10171391
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
What will happen if the input signal is differential (say 0.5Vpp
signal in each differential line)?
When sending an analogue signal from one place to another the biggest hurdle usually faced is one of interference pick-up. To alleviate that you should aim to make the interference see the impedance of each differential wire the same. This is called balancing the impedances and leads to the term "a balanced transmission". It does not mean that you have to send signals differentially although this helps.
To balance the impedances on each wire, the wires firstly have to be very similar in construction and, of course, twisted pair is the usual solution but, the driving impedance needs to be the same for both the hot lead and the return wire. So, if you are driving the line with an op-amp, it is usual to put (say) 600 ohms in series with the hot-wire and the same impedance in series with the return wire.
This now means that any interference on the "pair" will produce the same interference voltage on each wire. At the receiving end, the input amplifier must be differential and present a balanced impedance to ground else you can modify the interference voltage on one wire with respect to the other and this means that the differential amplifier cannot adequately cancel that interference at its output.
Can there be any change in frequency?
There will be no change of frequency but there can be a relative attenuation of some frequencies with respect to others due to the complex input impedance presented by any cable at audio especially on long wires such as in telephones.
How much signal voltage can drop?
There won't be much attenuation for audio base-band on a 50m cable but, if in doubt, the cable can be modeled and attenuation figures acquired via simulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Andy aka
230k10171391
What will happen if the input signal is differential (say 0.5Vpp
signal in each differential line)?
When sending an analogue signal from one place to another the biggest hurdle usually faced is one of interference pick-up. To alleviate that you should aim to make the interference see the impedance of each differential wire the same. This is called balancing the impedances and leads to the term "a balanced transmission". It does not mean that you have to send signals differentially although this helps.
To balance the impedances on each wire, the wires firstly have to be very similar in construction and, of course, twisted pair is the usual solution but, the driving impedance needs to be the same for both the hot lead and the return wire. So, if you are driving the line with an op-amp, it is usual to put (say) 600 ohms in series with the hot-wire and the same impedance in series with the return wire.
This now means that any interference on the "pair" will produce the same interference voltage on each wire. At the receiving end, the input amplifier must be differential and present a balanced impedance to ground else you can modify the interference voltage on one wire with respect to the other and this means that the differential amplifier cannot adequately cancel that interference at its output.
Can there be any change in frequency?
There will be no change of frequency but there can be a relative attenuation of some frequencies with respect to others due to the complex input impedance presented by any cable at audio especially on long wires such as in telephones.
How much signal voltage can drop?
There won't be much attenuation for audio base-band on a 50m cable but, if in doubt, the cable can be modeled and attenuation figures acquired via simulation.
answered 1 hour ago
Andy aka
230k10171391
answered 1 hour ago
Andy aka
230k10171391
answered 1 hour ago
Andy aka
230k10171391
answered 1 hour ago
Andy aka
230k10171391
230k10171391
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Forget single ended signals - 50m is so long distance that any ground connection simultaneously at both ends make an enormous interference collecting loop. Hum and buzzes spoil the signals totally if they are only few hundred millivolts.
See Cat5 spec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable
All wave phenomenas at audio frequencies and 50m cable length are neglible. You can well think one pair as RC lowpass filter which has 10 Ohm resistor and C=2500pF. It alone affects virtually nothing, but the source resistance at the signal transmitting end will affect radically. If there's several kOhms at the transmitting end, you will get treble loss. Only 1500 Ohms can be tolerated for full 20kHz band audio. 4kHz allow 7500 Ohm, but the higher is the resistance, the more sensitive the system is to collect hum and other noises.
How much there's interfering fields in your operating environment. I cannot say it. An AC power cord side by side with your cable can cause troubles if the terminating resistance at both ends is high. You must do some tests.
answered 36 mins ago
user287001
8,2081415
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Forget single ended signals - 50m is so long distance that any ground connection simultaneously at both ends make an enormous interference collecting loop. Hum and buzzes spoil the signals totally if they are only few hundred millivolts.
See Cat5 spec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable
All wave phenomenas at audio frequencies and 50m cable length are neglible. You can well think one pair as RC lowpass filter which has 10 Ohm resistor and C=2500pF. It alone affects virtually nothing, but the source resistance at the signal transmitting end will affect radically. If there's several kOhms at the transmitting end, you will get treble loss. Only 1500 Ohms can be tolerated for full 20kHz band audio. 4kHz allow 7500 Ohm, but the higher is the resistance, the more sensitive the system is to collect hum and other noises.
How much there's interfering fields in your operating environment. I cannot say it. An AC power cord side by side with your cable can cause troubles if the terminating resistance at both ends is high. You must do some tests.
answered 36 mins ago
user287001
8,2081415
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Forget single ended signals - 50m is so long distance that any ground connection simultaneously at both ends make an enormous interference collecting loop. Hum and buzzes spoil the signals totally if they are only few hundred millivolts.
See Cat5 spec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable
All wave phenomenas at audio frequencies and 50m cable length are neglible. You can well think one pair as RC lowpass filter which has 10 Ohm resistor and C=2500pF. It alone affects virtually nothing, but the source resistance at the signal transmitting end will affect radically. If there's several kOhms at the transmitting end, you will get treble loss. Only 1500 Ohms can be tolerated for full 20kHz band audio. 4kHz allow 7500 Ohm, but the higher is the resistance, the more sensitive the system is to collect hum and other noises.
How much there's interfering fields in your operating environment. I cannot say it. An AC power cord side by side with your cable can cause troubles if the terminating resistance at both ends is high. You must do some tests.
answered 36 mins ago
user287001
8,2081415
Forget single ended signals - 50m is so long distance that any ground connection simultaneously at both ends make an enormous interference collecting loop. Hum and buzzes spoil the signals totally if they are only few hundred millivolts.
See Cat5 spec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable
All wave phenomenas at audio frequencies and 50m cable length are neglible. You can well think one pair as RC lowpass filter which has 10 Ohm resistor and C=2500pF. It alone affects virtually nothing, but the source resistance at the signal transmitting end will affect radically. If there's several kOhms at the transmitting end, you will get treble loss. Only 1500 Ohms can be tolerated for full 20kHz band audio. 4kHz allow 7500 Ohm, but the higher is the resistance, the more sensitive the system is to collect hum and other noises.
How much there's interfering fields in your operating environment. I cannot say it. An AC power cord side by side with your cable can cause troubles if the terminating resistance at both ends is high. You must do some tests.
answered 36 mins ago
user287001
8,2081415
edited 8 mins ago
answered 36 mins ago
user287001
8,2081415
answered 36 mins ago
user287001
8,2081415
answered 36 mins ago
user287001
8,2081415
8,2081415
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Your question is impossible to answer quantitatively since the level and type of interference along the cable is unknown, and you haven't told us how the end is terminated.
Look up the resistance per unit length of the cable you want to use. From that you can calculate the resistance in series with your signal. Don't forget that the signal makes a round trip, so the total wire length is twice the cable length.
That all said, sending single ended audio over a long unshielded cable sounds like a really bad idea to me.
My first reaction would be to send the data digitally. That's what cat 5 cable is intended for. You can easily send a few Mbit/s over one pair. To put this in persepective, 16 bit samples at 50 kHz rate (better than CD quality) is only 800 kbit/s.
Digital gives you a certain noise immunity directly. It also allows for easy common mode rejection at the receiving end, by using opto-isolators or pulse transformers.
My second choice would be to use one pair of the cat 5 cable to send differential audio. I would make the voltage higher than you suggest. That makes it larger relative to the inevitable noise along the way. A small audio transformer at the receiver is a easy way to eliminate most common mode noise, and that also removes the need to for a third wire to carry ground.
answered 1 hour ago
Olin Lathrop
277k28330778
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Your question is impossible to answer quantitatively since the level and type of interference along the cable is unknown, and you haven't told us how the end is terminated.
Look up the resistance per unit length of the cable you want to use. From that you can calculate the resistance in series with your signal. Don't forget that the signal makes a round trip, so the total wire length is twice the cable length.
That all said, sending single ended audio over a long unshielded cable sounds like a really bad idea to me.
My first reaction would be to send the data digitally. That's what cat 5 cable is intended for. You can easily send a few Mbit/s over one pair. To put this in persepective, 16 bit samples at 50 kHz rate (better than CD quality) is only 800 kbit/s.
Digital gives you a certain noise immunity directly. It also allows for easy common mode rejection at the receiving end, by using opto-isolators or pulse transformers.
My second choice would be to use one pair of the cat 5 cable to send differential audio. I would make the voltage higher than you suggest. That makes it larger relative to the inevitable noise along the way. A small audio transformer at the receiver is a easy way to eliminate most common mode noise, and that also removes the need to for a third wire to carry ground.
answered 1 hour ago
Olin Lathrop
277k28330778
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Your question is impossible to answer quantitatively since the level and type of interference along the cable is unknown, and you haven't told us how the end is terminated.
Look up the resistance per unit length of the cable you want to use. From that you can calculate the resistance in series with your signal. Don't forget that the signal makes a round trip, so the total wire length is twice the cable length.
That all said, sending single ended audio over a long unshielded cable sounds like a really bad idea to me.
My first reaction would be to send the data digitally. That's what cat 5 cable is intended for. You can easily send a few Mbit/s over one pair. To put this in persepective, 16 bit samples at 50 kHz rate (better than CD quality) is only 800 kbit/s.
Digital gives you a certain noise immunity directly. It also allows for easy common mode rejection at the receiving end, by using opto-isolators or pulse transformers.
My second choice would be to use one pair of the cat 5 cable to send differential audio. I would make the voltage higher than you suggest. That makes it larger relative to the inevitable noise along the way. A small audio transformer at the receiver is a easy way to eliminate most common mode noise, and that also removes the need to for a third wire to carry ground.
answered 1 hour ago
Olin Lathrop
277k28330778
Your question is impossible to answer quantitatively since the level and type of interference along the cable is unknown, and you haven't told us how the end is terminated.
Look up the resistance per unit length of the cable you want to use. From that you can calculate the resistance in series with your signal. Don't forget that the signal makes a round trip, so the total wire length is twice the cable length.
That all said, sending single ended audio over a long unshielded cable sounds like a really bad idea to me.
My first reaction would be to send the data digitally. That's what cat 5 cable is intended for. You can easily send a few Mbit/s over one pair. To put this in persepective, 16 bit samples at 50 kHz rate (better than CD quality) is only 800 kbit/s.
Digital gives you a certain noise immunity directly. It also allows for easy common mode rejection at the receiving end, by using opto-isolators or pulse transformers.
My second choice would be to use one pair of the cat 5 cable to send differential audio. I would make the voltage higher than you suggest. That makes it larger relative to the inevitable noise along the way. A small audio transformer at the receiver is a easy way to eliminate most common mode noise, and that also removes the need to for a third wire to carry ground.
answered 1 hour ago
Olin Lathrop
277k28330778
answered 1 hour ago
Olin Lathrop
277k28330778
answered 1 hour ago
Olin Lathrop
277k28330778
answered 1 hour ago
Olin Lathrop
277k28330778
277k28330778
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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1
Do you know what a telephone sounds like?
– Dave Tweed♦
1 hour ago