Mixing
Practical height of towers without elevators
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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2
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I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented, so the limiting factor on height is ergonomic.
What would be the maximum practical height for a building where the people going up the stairs are expected to be pretty fit, and where it's deemed acceptable to need to stop for a rest on the way up?
science-based humans construction
asked 4 hours ago
rwallace
578312
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented, so the limiting factor on height is ergonomic.
What would be the maximum practical height for a building where the people going up the stairs are expected to be pretty fit, and where it's deemed acceptable to need to stop for a rest on the way up?
science-based humans construction
asked 4 hours ago
rwallace
578312
3
Obligatory (and surprisingly useful) XKCD
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
Are you talking about a "slim" tower where people have to go up and down daily, or mountain-like, where people can live their entire lives without moving far vertically?
– Alexander
4 hours ago
5
Also a question that seems daft but really isn’t: What is the state of plumbing technology in this world?
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
1
@AlexP On the off chance that was an honest attempt to contribute to the discussion, and you genuinely don't realize how it comes across, I will point out the phrase 'for the purposes of this discussion' which means yes of course water cannot be pumped to genuinely unlimited height, but is not the limiting factor under consideration here.
– rwallace
3 hours ago
1
"I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented." Not possible, since necessity is the mother of invention, and (for the longest time) elevators only used pulleys and counterweights. IOW, when elevators are needed, they'll be invented.
– RonJohn
3 hours ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented, so the limiting factor on height is ergonomic.
What would be the maximum practical height for a building where the people going up the stairs are expected to be pretty fit, and where it's deemed acceptable to need to stop for a rest on the way up?
science-based humans construction
asked 4 hours ago
rwallace
578312
I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented, so the limiting factor on height is ergonomic.
What would be the maximum practical height for a building where the people going up the stairs are expected to be pretty fit, and where it's deemed acceptable to need to stop for a rest on the way up?
science-based humans construction
science-based humans construction
asked 4 hours ago
rwallace
578312
asked 4 hours ago
rwallace
578312
asked 4 hours ago
rwallace
578312
asked 4 hours ago
rwallace
578312
asked 4 hours ago
rwallace
578312
578312
3
Obligatory (and surprisingly useful) XKCD
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
Are you talking about a "slim" tower where people have to go up and down daily, or mountain-like, where people can live their entire lives without moving far vertically?
– Alexander
4 hours ago
5
Also a question that seems daft but really isn’t: What is the state of plumbing technology in this world?
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
1
@AlexP On the off chance that was an honest attempt to contribute to the discussion, and you genuinely don't realize how it comes across, I will point out the phrase 'for the purposes of this discussion' which means yes of course water cannot be pumped to genuinely unlimited height, but is not the limiting factor under consideration here.
– rwallace
3 hours ago
1
"I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented." Not possible, since necessity is the mother of invention, and (for the longest time) elevators only used pulleys and counterweights. IOW, when elevators are needed, they'll be invented.
– RonJohn
3 hours ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
3
Obligatory (and surprisingly useful) XKCD
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
Are you talking about a "slim" tower where people have to go up and down daily, or mountain-like, where people can live their entire lives without moving far vertically?
– Alexander
4 hours ago
5
Also a question that seems daft but really isn’t: What is the state of plumbing technology in this world?
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
1
@AlexP On the off chance that was an honest attempt to contribute to the discussion, and you genuinely don't realize how it comes across, I will point out the phrase 'for the purposes of this discussion' which means yes of course water cannot be pumped to genuinely unlimited height, but is not the limiting factor under consideration here.
– rwallace
3 hours ago
1
"I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented." Not possible, since necessity is the mother of invention, and (for the longest time) elevators only used pulleys and counterweights. IOW, when elevators are needed, they'll be invented.
– RonJohn
3 hours ago
3
3
Obligatory (and surprisingly useful) XKCD
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
Obligatory (and surprisingly useful) XKCD
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
Are you talking about a "slim" tower where people have to go up and down daily, or mountain-like, where people can live their entire lives without moving far vertically?
– Alexander
4 hours ago
Are you talking about a "slim" tower where people have to go up and down daily, or mountain-like, where people can live their entire lives without moving far vertically?
– Alexander
4 hours ago
5
5
Also a question that seems daft but really isn’t: What is the state of plumbing technology in this world?
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
Also a question that seems daft but really isn’t: What is the state of plumbing technology in this world?
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
1
1
@AlexP On the off chance that was an honest attempt to contribute to the discussion, and you genuinely don't realize how it comes across, I will point out the phrase 'for the purposes of this discussion' which means yes of course water cannot be pumped to genuinely unlimited height, but is not the limiting factor under consideration here.
– rwallace
3 hours ago
@AlexP On the off chance that was an honest attempt to contribute to the discussion, and you genuinely don't realize how it comes across, I will point out the phrase 'for the purposes of this discussion' which means yes of course water cannot be pumped to genuinely unlimited height, but is not the limiting factor under consideration here.
– rwallace
3 hours ago
1
1
"I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented." Not possible, since necessity is the mother of invention, and (for the longest time) elevators only used pulleys and counterweights. IOW, when elevators are needed, they'll be invented.
– RonJohn
3 hours ago
"I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented." Not possible, since necessity is the mother of invention, and (for the longest time) elevators only used pulleys and counterweights. IOW, when elevators are needed, they'll be invented.
– RonJohn
3 hours ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
The Problem
A large part of the problem is how big do you want to build without an elevator of some sort.
The earliest elevators were made in the third century BC. The basic technology is simple with a platform below a hoist. If you are going to be building something more than a few stories you will have a hard carrying everything up and down stairs or ladders and eventually will just throw a rope down and pull stuff up.
Once you are pulling stuff up on a rope its a short step to a loop to stick your foot in and then a board to stand on.
Gravy on the whole scheme is a pulley at the top so the lifting can be done from the bottom.
The elevators may not look like modern elevators but once you start building high, it is almost inevitable. You need to get things up to build, and moving 100kg of person up and down in order to move 50kg of concrete up just sucks.
Pretty much once you have a way of lifting stuff up, people will try to ride it.
The Solution
The only reasons elevators wouldn't be ubiquitous in tall buildings would be political or social.
Fitness Fetish
This society has a strong focus on physical fitness where there is a strong shame associated with not moving under your own power.
Historic Accidents
Elevators were invented but a tragic accident in the past instilled a cultural bias against them
Taxes
If elevators are highly taxed, then there won't be many of them except for the very rich where they would almost be a status symbol.
Practical Concerns
According to http://urbansome.com/how-many-calories-does-walking-up-the-stairs-burn/ humans burn 10 calories climbing up one floor. This means that climbing up a 20 story building means you will burn a tenth of your daily calories.
New York City used to be limited to 8 story buildings due to hydraulic concerns, they couldn't get the water up to the higher floors through pressure alone. Most of these didn't have elevators.
Of course there is also this modern building in Spain.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/architect-forgets-elevator-for-47-floor-skyscraper-in-spain-a-916082.html
A final loophole
If tall building without elevators are normal, then there will be a strong desire to tie buildings together at higher floors with elevated walkways. Commuting from the 13th floor to the 12th of a building a mile away isn't so bad if every building in between is connected at the 10th floor. There is less energy expended walking the extra mile than up the 10 extra floors.
answered 3 hours ago
MongoTheGeek
1775
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Any practical (i.e. within the troposphere) height, if there is a primary reason for people to do something on highest floors. It would be part of the duty (or pilgrimage) to ascend the tower over the course of multiple days, toiling up the supplies.
15-20 stories high, if it's a general purpose building and it should be accessed by wide population - including frail, but high-ranking members of the society. Any more than that, and carrying up a high-level bureaucrat on the stairs would became an impractical task.
answered 3 hours ago
Alexander
17k42967
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I've walked up several tall structures - the tallest may have been Ulm Minster; at 161 m approximately the same height as 50 storey building. I'm middle-aged and quite unfit - I found it pretty tiring, needing to stop for a rest a couple of times.
answered 2 hours ago
Nick
1
New contributor
Nick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
The Problem
A large part of the problem is how big do you want to build without an elevator of some sort.
The earliest elevators were made in the third century BC. The basic technology is simple with a platform below a hoist. If you are going to be building something more than a few stories you will have a hard carrying everything up and down stairs or ladders and eventually will just throw a rope down and pull stuff up.
Once you are pulling stuff up on a rope its a short step to a loop to stick your foot in and then a board to stand on.
Gravy on the whole scheme is a pulley at the top so the lifting can be done from the bottom.
The elevators may not look like modern elevators but once you start building high, it is almost inevitable. You need to get things up to build, and moving 100kg of person up and down in order to move 50kg of concrete up just sucks.
Pretty much once you have a way of lifting stuff up, people will try to ride it.
The Solution
The only reasons elevators wouldn't be ubiquitous in tall buildings would be political or social.
Fitness Fetish
This society has a strong focus on physical fitness where there is a strong shame associated with not moving under your own power.
Historic Accidents
Elevators were invented but a tragic accident in the past instilled a cultural bias against them
Taxes
If elevators are highly taxed, then there won't be many of them except for the very rich where they would almost be a status symbol.
Practical Concerns
According to http://urbansome.com/how-many-calories-does-walking-up-the-stairs-burn/ humans burn 10 calories climbing up one floor. This means that climbing up a 20 story building means you will burn a tenth of your daily calories.
New York City used to be limited to 8 story buildings due to hydraulic concerns, they couldn't get the water up to the higher floors through pressure alone. Most of these didn't have elevators.
Of course there is also this modern building in Spain.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/architect-forgets-elevator-for-47-floor-skyscraper-in-spain-a-916082.html
A final loophole
If tall building without elevators are normal, then there will be a strong desire to tie buildings together at higher floors with elevated walkways. Commuting from the 13th floor to the 12th of a building a mile away isn't so bad if every building in between is connected at the 10th floor. There is less energy expended walking the extra mile than up the 10 extra floors.
answered 3 hours ago
MongoTheGeek
1775
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
The Problem
A large part of the problem is how big do you want to build without an elevator of some sort.
The earliest elevators were made in the third century BC. The basic technology is simple with a platform below a hoist. If you are going to be building something more than a few stories you will have a hard carrying everything up and down stairs or ladders and eventually will just throw a rope down and pull stuff up.
Once you are pulling stuff up on a rope its a short step to a loop to stick your foot in and then a board to stand on.
Gravy on the whole scheme is a pulley at the top so the lifting can be done from the bottom.
The elevators may not look like modern elevators but once you start building high, it is almost inevitable. You need to get things up to build, and moving 100kg of person up and down in order to move 50kg of concrete up just sucks.
Pretty much once you have a way of lifting stuff up, people will try to ride it.
The Solution
The only reasons elevators wouldn't be ubiquitous in tall buildings would be political or social.
Fitness Fetish
This society has a strong focus on physical fitness where there is a strong shame associated with not moving under your own power.
Historic Accidents
Elevators were invented but a tragic accident in the past instilled a cultural bias against them
Taxes
If elevators are highly taxed, then there won't be many of them except for the very rich where they would almost be a status symbol.
Practical Concerns
According to http://urbansome.com/how-many-calories-does-walking-up-the-stairs-burn/ humans burn 10 calories climbing up one floor. This means that climbing up a 20 story building means you will burn a tenth of your daily calories.
New York City used to be limited to 8 story buildings due to hydraulic concerns, they couldn't get the water up to the higher floors through pressure alone. Most of these didn't have elevators.
Of course there is also this modern building in Spain.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/architect-forgets-elevator-for-47-floor-skyscraper-in-spain-a-916082.html
A final loophole
If tall building without elevators are normal, then there will be a strong desire to tie buildings together at higher floors with elevated walkways. Commuting from the 13th floor to the 12th of a building a mile away isn't so bad if every building in between is connected at the 10th floor. There is less energy expended walking the extra mile than up the 10 extra floors.
answered 3 hours ago
MongoTheGeek
1775
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
The Problem
A large part of the problem is how big do you want to build without an elevator of some sort.
The earliest elevators were made in the third century BC. The basic technology is simple with a platform below a hoist. If you are going to be building something more than a few stories you will have a hard carrying everything up and down stairs or ladders and eventually will just throw a rope down and pull stuff up.
Once you are pulling stuff up on a rope its a short step to a loop to stick your foot in and then a board to stand on.
Gravy on the whole scheme is a pulley at the top so the lifting can be done from the bottom.
The elevators may not look like modern elevators but once you start building high, it is almost inevitable. You need to get things up to build, and moving 100kg of person up and down in order to move 50kg of concrete up just sucks.
Pretty much once you have a way of lifting stuff up, people will try to ride it.
The Solution
The only reasons elevators wouldn't be ubiquitous in tall buildings would be political or social.
Fitness Fetish
This society has a strong focus on physical fitness where there is a strong shame associated with not moving under your own power.
Historic Accidents
Elevators were invented but a tragic accident in the past instilled a cultural bias against them
Taxes
If elevators are highly taxed, then there won't be many of them except for the very rich where they would almost be a status symbol.
Practical Concerns
According to http://urbansome.com/how-many-calories-does-walking-up-the-stairs-burn/ humans burn 10 calories climbing up one floor. This means that climbing up a 20 story building means you will burn a tenth of your daily calories.
New York City used to be limited to 8 story buildings due to hydraulic concerns, they couldn't get the water up to the higher floors through pressure alone. Most of these didn't have elevators.
Of course there is also this modern building in Spain.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/architect-forgets-elevator-for-47-floor-skyscraper-in-spain-a-916082.html
A final loophole
If tall building without elevators are normal, then there will be a strong desire to tie buildings together at higher floors with elevated walkways. Commuting from the 13th floor to the 12th of a building a mile away isn't so bad if every building in between is connected at the 10th floor. There is less energy expended walking the extra mile than up the 10 extra floors.
answered 3 hours ago
MongoTheGeek
1775
The Problem
A large part of the problem is how big do you want to build without an elevator of some sort.
The earliest elevators were made in the third century BC. The basic technology is simple with a platform below a hoist. If you are going to be building something more than a few stories you will have a hard carrying everything up and down stairs or ladders and eventually will just throw a rope down and pull stuff up.
Once you are pulling stuff up on a rope its a short step to a loop to stick your foot in and then a board to stand on.
Gravy on the whole scheme is a pulley at the top so the lifting can be done from the bottom.
The elevators may not look like modern elevators but once you start building high, it is almost inevitable. You need to get things up to build, and moving 100kg of person up and down in order to move 50kg of concrete up just sucks.
Pretty much once you have a way of lifting stuff up, people will try to ride it.
The Solution
The only reasons elevators wouldn't be ubiquitous in tall buildings would be political or social.
Fitness Fetish
This society has a strong focus on physical fitness where there is a strong shame associated with not moving under your own power.
Historic Accidents
Elevators were invented but a tragic accident in the past instilled a cultural bias against them
Taxes
If elevators are highly taxed, then there won't be many of them except for the very rich where they would almost be a status symbol.
Practical Concerns
According to http://urbansome.com/how-many-calories-does-walking-up-the-stairs-burn/ humans burn 10 calories climbing up one floor. This means that climbing up a 20 story building means you will burn a tenth of your daily calories.
New York City used to be limited to 8 story buildings due to hydraulic concerns, they couldn't get the water up to the higher floors through pressure alone. Most of these didn't have elevators.
Of course there is also this modern building in Spain.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/architect-forgets-elevator-for-47-floor-skyscraper-in-spain-a-916082.html
A final loophole
If tall building without elevators are normal, then there will be a strong desire to tie buildings together at higher floors with elevated walkways. Commuting from the 13th floor to the 12th of a building a mile away isn't so bad if every building in between is connected at the 10th floor. There is less energy expended walking the extra mile than up the 10 extra floors.
answered 3 hours ago
MongoTheGeek
1775
answered 3 hours ago
MongoTheGeek
1775
answered 3 hours ago
MongoTheGeek
1775
answered 3 hours ago
MongoTheGeek
1775
1775
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Any practical (i.e. within the troposphere) height, if there is a primary reason for people to do something on highest floors. It would be part of the duty (or pilgrimage) to ascend the tower over the course of multiple days, toiling up the supplies.
15-20 stories high, if it's a general purpose building and it should be accessed by wide population - including frail, but high-ranking members of the society. Any more than that, and carrying up a high-level bureaucrat on the stairs would became an impractical task.
answered 3 hours ago
Alexander
17k42967
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Any practical (i.e. within the troposphere) height, if there is a primary reason for people to do something on highest floors. It would be part of the duty (or pilgrimage) to ascend the tower over the course of multiple days, toiling up the supplies.
15-20 stories high, if it's a general purpose building and it should be accessed by wide population - including frail, but high-ranking members of the society. Any more than that, and carrying up a high-level bureaucrat on the stairs would became an impractical task.
answered 3 hours ago
Alexander
17k42967
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Any practical (i.e. within the troposphere) height, if there is a primary reason for people to do something on highest floors. It would be part of the duty (or pilgrimage) to ascend the tower over the course of multiple days, toiling up the supplies.
15-20 stories high, if it's a general purpose building and it should be accessed by wide population - including frail, but high-ranking members of the society. Any more than that, and carrying up a high-level bureaucrat on the stairs would became an impractical task.
answered 3 hours ago
Alexander
17k42967
Any practical (i.e. within the troposphere) height, if there is a primary reason for people to do something on highest floors. It would be part of the duty (or pilgrimage) to ascend the tower over the course of multiple days, toiling up the supplies.
15-20 stories high, if it's a general purpose building and it should be accessed by wide population - including frail, but high-ranking members of the society. Any more than that, and carrying up a high-level bureaucrat on the stairs would became an impractical task.
answered 3 hours ago
Alexander
17k42967
edited 2 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
Alexander
17k42967
answered 3 hours ago
Alexander
17k42967
answered 3 hours ago
Alexander
17k42967
17k42967
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I've walked up several tall structures - the tallest may have been Ulm Minster; at 161 m approximately the same height as 50 storey building. I'm middle-aged and quite unfit - I found it pretty tiring, needing to stop for a rest a couple of times.
answered 2 hours ago
Nick
1
New contributor
Nick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I've walked up several tall structures - the tallest may have been Ulm Minster; at 161 m approximately the same height as 50 storey building. I'm middle-aged and quite unfit - I found it pretty tiring, needing to stop for a rest a couple of times.
answered 2 hours ago
Nick
1
New contributor
Nick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I've walked up several tall structures - the tallest may have been Ulm Minster; at 161 m approximately the same height as 50 storey building. I'm middle-aged and quite unfit - I found it pretty tiring, needing to stop for a rest a couple of times.
answered 2 hours ago
Nick
1
New contributor
Nick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I've walked up several tall structures - the tallest may have been Ulm Minster; at 161 m approximately the same height as 50 storey building. I'm middle-aged and quite unfit - I found it pretty tiring, needing to stop for a rest a couple of times.
answered 2 hours ago
Nick
1
New contributor
Nick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 2 hours ago
Nick
1
New contributor
Nick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 2 hours ago
Nick
1
answered 2 hours ago
Nick
1
1
New contributor
Nick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Nick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Nick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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3
Obligatory (and surprisingly useful) XKCD
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
Are you talking about a "slim" tower where people have to go up and down daily, or mountain-like, where people can live their entire lives without moving far vertically?
– Alexander
4 hours ago
5
Also a question that seems daft but really isn’t: What is the state of plumbing technology in this world?
– Joe Bloggs
4 hours ago
1
@AlexP On the off chance that was an honest attempt to contribute to the discussion, and you genuinely don't realize how it comes across, I will point out the phrase 'for the purposes of this discussion' which means yes of course water cannot be pumped to genuinely unlimited height, but is not the limiting factor under consideration here.
– rwallace
3 hours ago
1
"I'm writing about a setting where building technology is quite advanced, but elevators have not yet been invented." Not possible, since necessity is the mother of invention, and (for the longest time) elevators only used pulleys and counterweights. IOW, when elevators are needed, they'll be invented.
– RonJohn
3 hours ago