Iyfjky

Question

I'm an undergraduate student, rising senior. I've been immersed in academia now since freshmen year, and I'd like to pursue a PhD in Computer Science in the future. I'm posting here because I just feel hopeless right now.

I've had research experiences at top schools, like MIT, and now, at a top research company (where I've been for a couple of months).

I know to the readers these sound impressive, but with every experience, I feel like I let my mentors and advisors down. I feel like they all had really high expectations for me -- and I just disappointed them.

With every opportunity -- and in every scenario, whether it was in school or some other aspect of my life -- I noticed a common pattern in myself :
I just didn't want to learn.

I did very well in high school. I do very well in college. But I just don't have the motivation to learn ... anything. I want good grades. I want to build the projects I have in mind. I want to finish my research project and get that publication. But I don't want to put the work in. Everything I achieved through academics was done under some combination of procrastination, stress, fatigue, and luck. I never really cared about what I was learning. I often did things just the day before, or late. I only learned just enough to do the assignment or get the grade I want. I always thought -- I can learn it the way I'm supposed to later. I just wanted the results. I wanted to look good on paper. I didn't want to feel ashamed in front of my mentors and co-workers, so I always did just enough to look like I was doing something.

These couple of months that I've gotten the opportunity to work as a research intern at a top research company (I didn't even get an interview to get there, I think I just got lucky), I've felt like shit. I knew nothing about NLP when I got here, and now it's the focus of my project. I've been working with neural nets for 2 years now, but I still don't fully understand the basics. I just feel like I should know this by now. And with every meeting, I feel like I'm doing the bare minimum -- just enough to look like I was doing something.

I feel too slow. Whenever I have to learn about a new topic or read a new paper, I get overwhelmed. I think I will never understand it enough to be able to contribute anything meaningful. And when I see how knowledgeable, motivated, and quick people are about their work, I get discouraged. I feel like time is quickly passing me by, and I am crumbling under every passing day.

Now I'm contemplating whether I will even have potential for an academic career in computation, or an academic career in anything, or a career at all. I know I love solving problems. I know I am creative and have good ideas when I really understand something. But that's what I'm worried about. What if I never attain that level of understanding?

I just don't know -- is this normal and must I just learn to deal with it? Am I experiencing this just because I'm at a different level than my co-workers here, who are PhD's and research scientists? Have academics gone through this phase where they feel like they just can't do it?
Or is there some underlying issue? What have been people's experiences?

Have you considered depression or burn-out as a reason? Or maybe Academia is just not a good career choice to you? We act like as it would be shameful or dull, but It is not: Academia is a strange career choice, donÃ¢Â€Â™t fit all the people, even if they are smart. — 4 hours ago

Buffy 22.3k669124 · Answer 1 · 2018-10-11 21:27:20Z

This sounds like a classic case of burn-out. You've been working hard, maybe too hard, and it isn't fun anymore. I think a lot of academics do that at some point and you need to find a way past it to be successful.

Some of the solutions can be fairly simple and others not. Getting advice from a counsellor or therapist may be needed. Probably useful in any case.

Some people can just find a non-academic activity to spend time and effort on. I usually recommend something physical, but that will also engage your brain in a different way. My own go-to activity is Tai Chi, a mind-body fusion. In the past, I also used bicycling and skiing to get away from the academy.

Such things can even be beneficial in solving academic problems, such as mathematics. When you get stuck on a problem, often letting it go for a bit will let your subconscious mind work on the problem and get you past the block. This too is a common experience.

On a larger scale, a year away, doing things that aren't so academic or that use your mind in a different way can be helpful. Students who had the means, often spent a year "bumming around Europe" after graduation. A museum tour of the great cities.

But if you just keep pressing and increasing the pressure, you probably won't improve.

You might also want to look at some other answers here that discuss Imposter Syndrome (search for the phrase here to get some idea of what it is and how to deal with it.) I'm not reading clear signs in your question that you are "suffering" from that, but take a look.

score 2 · Answer 2 · 2018-10-11 22:31:47Z

I want to build the projects I have in mind. ... I just wanted the results.

Wanting practical results on projects that are interesting to you is a great place to start when looking for lost motivation. Find a simple project you are interested in, that is not too large or abstract, and have a play with it. Learn only what you need to learn to get it working, on an as-needed basis, and see if you enjoy this. If that works out, think about extending your project to make it bigger, and learn more as needed to expand on it, until it is how you want it to be. You might find that this gives you an interest in the underlying abstract subject material, since it is now connected to a practical problem of interest to you.

Most of my own training is in statistics and economics, and like you, I muddled through classes with decent grades and often minimal effort. I have always found that learning something I'm forced to learn is laborious, but learning something I need to understand to do a project I am interested in is a lot more fun. For example, a few years ago I was playing Guess-Who with my (then) two-year-old daughter, and I wondered what the optimal subgame-perfect strategy in the game would be. That led me to muck around with the problem for a couple of weeks, and teach myself a whole bunch of game theory, and a bit of discrete math to boot. I had done classes on game theory before, but I was never really motivated to learn it properly until I needed to apply it to a problem of my own.

From your description of your education and career, it sounds to me like you are not motivated to learn because the learning has little to no connection to any project outcome that you are actually interested in. Working in a field as esoteric as neural nets, where the end product is removed from the underlying theory by many levels of abstraction, is likely to exacerbate this feeling. Since you are in computer science, you will have different interests to me. But regardless, forget about what they want you to do at work, and think about some of the fun projects you'd like to build on your own. Maybe you have an idea for a small computing project you could try in your spare time. Start by making something small and don't worry if it has any broader significance or value to others; treat it as a toy problem, solely for your own recreation. Most likely you won't know how to do every aspect of the project ab initio, so that will necessitate learning the bits you don't know how to do yet. If the project is fun and motivating, then you will probably find that learning those bits will not be a chore. You might even find that the project gives you a renewed interest in a more general field.

If you have not already done so, make sure to read the "plate story" about the physicist Richard Feynman (see his excellent book, "Surely you're Joking Mr Feynman!").
Feynman talks of having suffered career burnout, where he was not accomplishing anything. He decided to avoid trying anything important, and just work on toy problems that were interesting to him (e.g., figuring out the physics of why a plate wobbles when you throw it up in the air). As he puts it, "So I got this new attitude. Now that I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything, I've got this nice position at the university teaching classes which I rather enjoy, and just like I read the Arabian Nights for pleasure, I'm going to play with physics, whenever I want to, without worrying about any importance whatsoever."

Yes, exactly: one should not self-censor on some grounds of mythical "importance"... but, rather, follow one's curiosity, without censoring. Yes, for start-up-company-oriented engineers, as opposed to academic scholars, this may not make sense. But I think it is the real crux-of-the-matter for academics. Don't self-censor. Be curious, and indulge that curiosity. Don't think about "funding" or "marketable products" and so on... unless, of course, that is really your goal... :) — 6 hours ago

HEITZ 8,36131733 · Answer 3 · 2018-10-12 02:41:09Z

Welcome to the high ability/high achievers club, or Ã¢Â€Â˜HAHAÃ¢Â€Â™. WeÃ¢Â€Â™re happy to have you!

But in seriousness you make two errors. The first is thinking you are letting your advisors down, which while you donÃ¢Â€Â™t specify, is often a reaction to advisors constant commentary on what to change. Advisors donÃ¢Â€Â™t push inept students. They critique and challenge the good ones.

Second, you believe your lack of motivation is a personality flaw, when it is actually a characteristic of most successful academics. Once you find the topic that flames your fire youÃ¢Â€Â™ll be relentless. Topics outside of your interest just isnt worth your time, right? Join the club.

Lastly, you are falling prey to imposter syndrome - youÃ¢Â€Â™re too slow/not smart enough/not productive, etc. 75% of us feel that way but lie about it. The other 25% of people work 23 hour days and sacrifice the rest of their life.

Unfortunately, you likely wonÃ¢Â€Â™t believe all of what IÃ¢Â€Â™ve just said...I didnÃ¢Â€Â™t until much later. But your feelings are the rule, not the exception.

N A McMahon 1 · Answer 4 · 2018-10-12 04:53:23Z

The first thing I would recommend is asking yourself the question: "what are you trying to achieve?" Is it I want good marks/prestige or is it I want to do X? If its the first one then that might help to explain your lack of motivation, in a sense you are lacking any real goal. If it's the second one then try to remember and focus on why X excited you and try to make sure the research you do is somehow related to that. From what you wrote I suspect the answer is "I want to do X", though you may be using "I want good marks/prestige" as a proxy and therefore are starting to burn out.

Given that you did very well at high school and undergrad work so far, one possibility is that you aren't use to doing difficult things, which could be as bad as you don't really know how to learn. If you tended to just absorb things in high school then you may have missed out on learning how to learn, if that's the case (and even if it isn't) you could take a look at the online course "Learning how to learn" or the book its based on "Make it stick".

At a research level this will be much worst, most research material is written by people at least a few years into their PhDs, and each paper is on a small topic. Therefore just having a goal "I want to understand Neural networks" is too broad a goal and too undirected. You may have an ultimate goal "I want to understand why and how neural networks work" (which I believe is a research goal, i.e. nobody could answer that, though I don't know the field), but the subgoal you are working towards may be "I want to understand when I should use a convoluted Neural net" (though that may be too broad as well at the moment), or even just "What did the authors do in paper Y".

As you learn more and more reading and understanding papers becomes easier. In part because you can skip to whatever part of the paper has useful details and in part because you know where this fits into the field of research. Once this happens you can start returning to setting yourself broader goals (but if you move into a different field you tend to start again at just trying to understand a paper).

Finally with respect to your supervisors, I agree with the others with looking into the imposter syndrome (and the DunningÃ¢Â€Â“Kruger effect). I think often a supervisor will try to push students if they are excited in their work or if they see potential in the student (in order to try to help them be their best).

Buffy 22.3k669124 · Answer 5 · 2018-10-11 21:27:20Z

This sounds like a classic case of burn-out. You've been working hard, maybe too hard, and it isn't fun anymore. I think a lot of academics do that at some point and you need to find a way past it to be successful.

Some of the solutions can be fairly simple and others not. Getting advice from a counsellor or therapist may be needed. Probably useful in any case.

Some people can just find a non-academic activity to spend time and effort on. I usually recommend something physical, but that will also engage your brain in a different way. My own go-to activity is Tai Chi, a mind-body fusion. In the past, I also used bicycling and skiing to get away from the academy.

Such things can even be beneficial in solving academic problems, such as mathematics. When you get stuck on a problem, often letting it go for a bit will let your subconscious mind work on the problem and get you past the block. This too is a common experience.

On a larger scale, a year away, doing things that aren't so academic or that use your mind in a different way can be helpful. Students who had the means, often spent a year "bumming around Europe" after graduation. A museum tour of the great cities.

But if you just keep pressing and increasing the pressure, you probably won't improve.

You might also want to look at some other answers here that discuss Imposter Syndrome (search for the phrase here to get some idea of what it is and how to deal with it.) I'm not reading clear signs in your question that you are "suffering" from that, but take a look.

score 2 · Answer 6 · 2018-10-11 22:31:47Z

I want to build the projects I have in mind. ... I just wanted the results.

Wanting practical results on projects that are interesting to you is a great place to start when looking for lost motivation. Find a simple project you are interested in, that is not too large or abstract, and have a play with it. Learn only what you need to learn to get it working, on an as-needed basis, and see if you enjoy this. If that works out, think about extending your project to make it bigger, and learn more as needed to expand on it, until it is how you want it to be. You might find that this gives you an interest in the underlying abstract subject material, since it is now connected to a practical problem of interest to you.

Most of my own training is in statistics and economics, and like you, I muddled through classes with decent grades and often minimal effort. I have always found that learning something I'm forced to learn is laborious, but learning something I need to understand to do a project I am interested in is a lot more fun. For example, a few years ago I was playing Guess-Who with my (then) two-year-old daughter, and I wondered what the optimal subgame-perfect strategy in the game would be. That led me to muck around with the problem for a couple of weeks, and teach myself a whole bunch of game theory, and a bit of discrete math to boot. I had done classes on game theory before, but I was never really motivated to learn it properly until I needed to apply it to a problem of my own.

From your description of your education and career, it sounds to me like you are not motivated to learn because the learning has little to no connection to any project outcome that you are actually interested in. Working in a field as esoteric as neural nets, where the end product is removed from the underlying theory by many levels of abstraction, is likely to exacerbate this feeling. Since you are in computer science, you will have different interests to me. But regardless, forget about what they want you to do at work, and think about some of the fun projects you'd like to build on your own. Maybe you have an idea for a small computing project you could try in your spare time. Start by making something small and don't worry if it has any broader significance or value to others; treat it as a toy problem, solely for your own recreation. Most likely you won't know how to do every aspect of the project ab initio, so that will necessitate learning the bits you don't know how to do yet. If the project is fun and motivating, then you will probably find that learning those bits will not be a chore. You might even find that the project gives you a renewed interest in a more general field.

If you have not already done so, make sure to read the "plate story" about the physicist Richard Feynman (see his excellent book, "Surely you're Joking Mr Feynman!").
Feynman talks of having suffered career burnout, where he was not accomplishing anything. He decided to avoid trying anything important, and just work on toy problems that were interesting to him (e.g., figuring out the physics of why a plate wobbles when you throw it up in the air). As he puts it, "So I got this new attitude. Now that I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything, I've got this nice position at the university teaching classes which I rather enjoy, and just like I read the Arabian Nights for pleasure, I'm going to play with physics, whenever I want to, without worrying about any importance whatsoever."

Yes, exactly: one should not self-censor on some grounds of mythical "importance"... but, rather, follow one's curiosity, without censoring. Yes, for start-up-company-oriented engineers, as opposed to academic scholars, this may not make sense. But I think it is the real crux-of-the-matter for academics. Don't self-censor. Be curious, and indulge that curiosity. Don't think about "funding" or "marketable products" and so on... unless, of course, that is really your goal... :) — 6 hours ago

HEITZ 8,36131733 · Answer 7 · 2018-10-12 02:41:09Z

Welcome to the high ability/high achievers club, or Ã¢Â€Â˜HAHAÃ¢Â€Â™. WeÃ¢Â€Â™re happy to have you!

But in seriousness you make two errors. The first is thinking you are letting your advisors down, which while you donÃ¢Â€Â™t specify, is often a reaction to advisors constant commentary on what to change. Advisors donÃ¢Â€Â™t push inept students. They critique and challenge the good ones.

Second, you believe your lack of motivation is a personality flaw, when it is actually a characteristic of most successful academics. Once you find the topic that flames your fire youÃ¢Â€Â™ll be relentless. Topics outside of your interest just isnt worth your time, right? Join the club.

Lastly, you are falling prey to imposter syndrome - youÃ¢Â€Â™re too slow/not smart enough/not productive, etc. 75% of us feel that way but lie about it. The other 25% of people work 23 hour days and sacrifice the rest of their life.

Unfortunately, you likely wonÃ¢Â€Â™t believe all of what IÃ¢Â€Â™ve just said...I didnÃ¢Â€Â™t until much later. But your feelings are the rule, not the exception.

N A McMahon 1 · Answer 8 · 2018-10-12 04:53:23Z

The first thing I would recommend is asking yourself the question: "what are you trying to achieve?" Is it I want good marks/prestige or is it I want to do X? If its the first one then that might help to explain your lack of motivation, in a sense you are lacking any real goal. If it's the second one then try to remember and focus on why X excited you and try to make sure the research you do is somehow related to that. From what you wrote I suspect the answer is "I want to do X", though you may be using "I want good marks/prestige" as a proxy and therefore are starting to burn out.

Given that you did very well at high school and undergrad work so far, one possibility is that you aren't use to doing difficult things, which could be as bad as you don't really know how to learn. If you tended to just absorb things in high school then you may have missed out on learning how to learn, if that's the case (and even if it isn't) you could take a look at the online course "Learning how to learn" or the book its based on "Make it stick".

At a research level this will be much worst, most research material is written by people at least a few years into their PhDs, and each paper is on a small topic. Therefore just having a goal "I want to understand Neural networks" is too broad a goal and too undirected. You may have an ultimate goal "I want to understand why and how neural networks work" (which I believe is a research goal, i.e. nobody could answer that, though I don't know the field), but the subgoal you are working towards may be "I want to understand when I should use a convoluted Neural net" (though that may be too broad as well at the moment), or even just "What did the authors do in paper Y".

As you learn more and more reading and understanding papers becomes easier. In part because you can skip to whatever part of the paper has useful details and in part because you know where this fits into the field of research. Once this happens you can start returning to setting yourself broader goals (but if you move into a different field you tend to start again at just trying to understand a paper).

Finally with respect to your supervisors, I agree with the others with looking into the imposter syndrome (and the DunningÃ¢Â€Â“Kruger effect). I think often a supervisor will try to push students if they are excited in their work or if they see potential in the student (in order to try to help them be their best).

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