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Is the correct pronunciation of “Have you seen Mary's book†“Mary book�
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So there is this question about the pronunciation of the noun possessive inflection.
A certain text states that a zero allomorph is used by certain American English speakers for the noun possessive morpheme.
It says that that the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and the first consonant of the book create a situation in which possessive morpheme "may not be pronounced".
This is the exact quote:
Some speakers of the American English have a zero allomorph of the possessive morpheme. They may indicate possession either by using the -s2 versions we have noted or simply by juxtaposing the two nouns involved, as in Have you seen Mary book? As in the case of the zero allomorph of the present- and past-tense morphemes (in which John watches TV and John watched TV may be pronounced the same as John watch TV), the zero allomorph of the possessive tends to occur where two or more consonants come together. In Mary’s book, the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and initial consonant of book create the environment in which the possessive morpheme may not be pronounced. Such a pronunciation pattern is one of many minor ways in which one dialect of English may differ from another without affecting meaning. Teachers of children who routinely use the zero allomorph of the possessive (Mary book) in speech may have to help them to become conscious of the correct spelling of the possessive, for they are likely, at least initially, to write possessive nouns as they pronounce them.
Analyzing English Grammar by Thomas P. Klammer, Muriel R. Schulz, Angela Della Volpe
Is this correct? Can anyone provide further information on this?
grammar pronunciation inflectional-morphology prescriptive-grammar morpheme
edited 26 mins ago
Janus Bahs Jacquet
29k567123
asked 4 hours ago
Strikers
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show 11 more comments
up vote
5
down vote
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So there is this question about the pronunciation of the noun possessive inflection.
A certain text states that a zero allomorph is used by certain American English speakers for the noun possessive morpheme.
It says that that the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and the first consonant of the book create a situation in which possessive morpheme "may not be pronounced".
This is the exact quote:
Some speakers of the American English have a zero allomorph of the possessive morpheme. They may indicate possession either by using the -s2 versions we have noted or simply by juxtaposing the two nouns involved, as in Have you seen Mary book? As in the case of the zero allomorph of the present- and past-tense morphemes (in which John watches TV and John watched TV may be pronounced the same as John watch TV), the zero allomorph of the possessive tends to occur where two or more consonants come together. In Mary’s book, the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and initial consonant of book create the environment in which the possessive morpheme may not be pronounced. Such a pronunciation pattern is one of many minor ways in which one dialect of English may differ from another without affecting meaning. Teachers of children who routinely use the zero allomorph of the possessive (Mary book) in speech may have to help them to become conscious of the correct spelling of the possessive, for they are likely, at least initially, to write possessive nouns as they pronounce them.
Analyzing English Grammar by Thomas P. Klammer, Muriel R. Schulz, Angela Della Volpe
Is this correct? Can anyone provide further information on this?
grammar pronunciation inflectional-morphology prescriptive-grammar morpheme
edited 26 mins ago
Janus Bahs Jacquet
29k567123
asked 4 hours ago
Strikers
284
New contributor
Strikers is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Could you translate that into English? If you're asking whether there are people who would tend to "swallow" the possessive S sound in this context, then, yes, there are people who will swallow most anything. But this is rare (for the possessive S, not political arguments).
– Hot Licks
3 hours ago
Hi, thank you for the response. I am wondering what you mean by "could you translate that into English? as I have written my question in English, (or are you giving a rhetorical question?). Also, I was asking whether removing the -s pronunciation is correct or not (and which is it?). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
I probably wouldn't pronounce the /z/ in "Claude's stuff". But leaving it out in "Mary's book" sounds really odd.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so I would like to confirm which pronunciation is correct? In terms of a perspective approach, using correct grammatical rules (in the given context). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
To get from John watches TV to John watch TV, you're deleting a whole syllable. You really can't do that.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
 |Â
show 11 more comments
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
So there is this question about the pronunciation of the noun possessive inflection.
A certain text states that a zero allomorph is used by certain American English speakers for the noun possessive morpheme.
It says that that the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and the first consonant of the book create a situation in which possessive morpheme "may not be pronounced".
This is the exact quote:
Some speakers of the American English have a zero allomorph of the possessive morpheme. They may indicate possession either by using the -s2 versions we have noted or simply by juxtaposing the two nouns involved, as in Have you seen Mary book? As in the case of the zero allomorph of the present- and past-tense morphemes (in which John watches TV and John watched TV may be pronounced the same as John watch TV), the zero allomorph of the possessive tends to occur where two or more consonants come together. In Mary’s book, the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and initial consonant of book create the environment in which the possessive morpheme may not be pronounced. Such a pronunciation pattern is one of many minor ways in which one dialect of English may differ from another without affecting meaning. Teachers of children who routinely use the zero allomorph of the possessive (Mary book) in speech may have to help them to become conscious of the correct spelling of the possessive, for they are likely, at least initially, to write possessive nouns as they pronounce them.
Analyzing English Grammar by Thomas P. Klammer, Muriel R. Schulz, Angela Della Volpe
Is this correct? Can anyone provide further information on this?
grammar pronunciation inflectional-morphology prescriptive-grammar morpheme
edited 26 mins ago
Janus Bahs Jacquet
29k567123
asked 4 hours ago
Strikers
284
New contributor
Strikers is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
So there is this question about the pronunciation of the noun possessive inflection.
A certain text states that a zero allomorph is used by certain American English speakers for the noun possessive morpheme.
It says that that the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and the first consonant of the book create a situation in which possessive morpheme "may not be pronounced".
This is the exact quote:
Some speakers of the American English have a zero allomorph of the possessive morpheme. They may indicate possession either by using the -s2 versions we have noted or simply by juxtaposing the two nouns involved, as in Have you seen Mary book? As in the case of the zero allomorph of the present- and past-tense morphemes (in which John watches TV and John watched TV may be pronounced the same as John watch TV), the zero allomorph of the possessive tends to occur where two or more consonants come together. In Mary’s book, the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and initial consonant of book create the environment in which the possessive morpheme may not be pronounced. Such a pronunciation pattern is one of many minor ways in which one dialect of English may differ from another without affecting meaning. Teachers of children who routinely use the zero allomorph of the possessive (Mary book) in speech may have to help them to become conscious of the correct spelling of the possessive, for they are likely, at least initially, to write possessive nouns as they pronounce them.
Analyzing English Grammar by Thomas P. Klammer, Muriel R. Schulz, Angela Della Volpe
Is this correct? Can anyone provide further information on this?
grammar pronunciation inflectional-morphology prescriptive-grammar morpheme
grammar pronunciation inflectional-morphology prescriptive-grammar morpheme
edited 26 mins ago
Janus Bahs Jacquet
29k567123
asked 4 hours ago
Strikers
284
New contributor
Strikers is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 26 mins ago
Janus Bahs Jacquet
29k567123
asked 4 hours ago
Strikers
284
New contributor
Strikers is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 26 mins ago
Janus Bahs Jacquet
29k567123
edited 26 mins ago
Janus Bahs Jacquet
29k567123
edited 26 mins ago
Janus Bahs Jacquet
29k567123
29k567123
asked 4 hours ago
Strikers
284
New contributor
Strikers is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 4 hours ago
Strikers
284
asked 4 hours ago
Strikers
284
284
New contributor
Strikers is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Strikers is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Strikers is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Could you translate that into English? If you're asking whether there are people who would tend to "swallow" the possessive S sound in this context, then, yes, there are people who will swallow most anything. But this is rare (for the possessive S, not political arguments).
– Hot Licks
3 hours ago
Hi, thank you for the response. I am wondering what you mean by "could you translate that into English? as I have written my question in English, (or are you giving a rhetorical question?). Also, I was asking whether removing the -s pronunciation is correct or not (and which is it?). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
I probably wouldn't pronounce the /z/ in "Claude's stuff". But leaving it out in "Mary's book" sounds really odd.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so I would like to confirm which pronunciation is correct? In terms of a perspective approach, using correct grammatical rules (in the given context). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
To get from John watches TV to John watch TV, you're deleting a whole syllable. You really can't do that.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
 |Â
show 11 more comments
Could you translate that into English? If you're asking whether there are people who would tend to "swallow" the possessive S sound in this context, then, yes, there are people who will swallow most anything. But this is rare (for the possessive S, not political arguments).
– Hot Licks
3 hours ago
Hi, thank you for the response. I am wondering what you mean by "could you translate that into English? as I have written my question in English, (or are you giving a rhetorical question?). Also, I was asking whether removing the -s pronunciation is correct or not (and which is it?). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
I probably wouldn't pronounce the /z/ in "Claude's stuff". But leaving it out in "Mary's book" sounds really odd.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so I would like to confirm which pronunciation is correct? In terms of a perspective approach, using correct grammatical rules (in the given context). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
To get from John watches TV to John watch TV, you're deleting a whole syllable. You really can't do that.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
Could you translate that into English? If you're asking whether there are people who would tend to "swallow" the possessive S sound in this context, then, yes, there are people who will swallow most anything. But this is rare (for the possessive S, not political arguments).
– Hot Licks
3 hours ago
Could you translate that into English? If you're asking whether there are people who would tend to "swallow" the possessive S sound in this context, then, yes, there are people who will swallow most anything. But this is rare (for the possessive S, not political arguments).
– Hot Licks
3 hours ago
Hi, thank you for the response. I am wondering what you mean by "could you translate that into English? as I have written my question in English, (or are you giving a rhetorical question?). Also, I was asking whether removing the -s pronunciation is correct or not (and which is it?). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
Hi, thank you for the response. I am wondering what you mean by "could you translate that into English? as I have written my question in English, (or are you giving a rhetorical question?). Also, I was asking whether removing the -s pronunciation is correct or not (and which is it?). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
1
I probably wouldn't pronounce the /z/ in "Claude's stuff". But leaving it out in "Mary's book" sounds really odd.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
I probably wouldn't pronounce the /z/ in "Claude's stuff". But leaving it out in "Mary's book" sounds really odd.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so I would like to confirm which pronunciation is correct? In terms of a perspective approach, using correct grammatical rules (in the given context). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so I would like to confirm which pronunciation is correct? In terms of a perspective approach, using correct grammatical rules (in the given context). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
1
To get from John watches TV to John watch TV, you're deleting a whole syllable. You really can't do that.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
To get from John watches TV to John watch TV, you're deleting a whole syllable. You really can't do that.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
 |Â
show 11 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.
In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).
answered 2 hours ago
Peter Shor
58.8k5110208
Exactly - African American Vernacular English can be loosely considered a dialect, but it is neither widespread nor common.
– user22542
2 hours ago
@user22542: It's definitely widespread—black people speak fairly similar forms of it in every corner of the U.S.
– Peter Shor
2 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so it is just purely a dialect situation then. Thanks.
– Strikers
1 hour ago
1
It’s worth noting that even in AAVE, pronouncing the possessive /z/ in Mary’s book is also an option. My gut tells me pronouncing the /z/ is actually still the more common option even in AAVE, though I have no data to back that up. But it is definitely never wrong to pronounce the /z/ in contexts like Mary’s book.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
19 mins ago
@JanusBahsJacquet Okay, that makes sense. I think the grammatical rules of the dialect itself is different from the "standard grammar" rules.
– Strikers
15 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.
In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).
answered 2 hours ago
Peter Shor
58.8k5110208
Exactly - African American Vernacular English can be loosely considered a dialect, but it is neither widespread nor common.
– user22542
2 hours ago
@user22542: It's definitely widespread—black people speak fairly similar forms of it in every corner of the U.S.
– Peter Shor
2 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so it is just purely a dialect situation then. Thanks.
– Strikers
1 hour ago
1
It’s worth noting that even in AAVE, pronouncing the possessive /z/ in Mary’s book is also an option. My gut tells me pronouncing the /z/ is actually still the more common option even in AAVE, though I have no data to back that up. But it is definitely never wrong to pronounce the /z/ in contexts like Mary’s book.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
19 mins ago
@JanusBahsJacquet Okay, that makes sense. I think the grammatical rules of the dialect itself is different from the "standard grammar" rules.
– Strikers
15 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.
In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).
answered 2 hours ago
Peter Shor
58.8k5110208
Exactly - African American Vernacular English can be loosely considered a dialect, but it is neither widespread nor common.
– user22542
2 hours ago
@user22542: It's definitely widespread—black people speak fairly similar forms of it in every corner of the U.S.
– Peter Shor
2 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so it is just purely a dialect situation then. Thanks.
– Strikers
1 hour ago
1
It’s worth noting that even in AAVE, pronouncing the possessive /z/ in Mary’s book is also an option. My gut tells me pronouncing the /z/ is actually still the more common option even in AAVE, though I have no data to back that up. But it is definitely never wrong to pronounce the /z/ in contexts like Mary’s book.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
19 mins ago
@JanusBahsJacquet Okay, that makes sense. I think the grammatical rules of the dialect itself is different from the "standard grammar" rules.
– Strikers
15 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.
In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).
answered 2 hours ago
Peter Shor
58.8k5110208
One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.
In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).
answered 2 hours ago
Peter Shor
58.8k5110208
answered 2 hours ago
Peter Shor
58.8k5110208
answered 2 hours ago
Peter Shor
58.8k5110208
answered 2 hours ago
Peter Shor
58.8k5110208
58.8k5110208
Exactly - African American Vernacular English can be loosely considered a dialect, but it is neither widespread nor common.
– user22542
2 hours ago
@user22542: It's definitely widespread—black people speak fairly similar forms of it in every corner of the U.S.
– Peter Shor
2 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so it is just purely a dialect situation then. Thanks.
– Strikers
1 hour ago
1
It’s worth noting that even in AAVE, pronouncing the possessive /z/ in Mary’s book is also an option. My gut tells me pronouncing the /z/ is actually still the more common option even in AAVE, though I have no data to back that up. But it is definitely never wrong to pronounce the /z/ in contexts like Mary’s book.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
19 mins ago
@JanusBahsJacquet Okay, that makes sense. I think the grammatical rules of the dialect itself is different from the "standard grammar" rules.
– Strikers
15 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Exactly - African American Vernacular English can be loosely considered a dialect, but it is neither widespread nor common.
– user22542
2 hours ago
@user22542: It's definitely widespread—black people speak fairly similar forms of it in every corner of the U.S.
– Peter Shor
2 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so it is just purely a dialect situation then. Thanks.
– Strikers
1 hour ago
1
It’s worth noting that even in AAVE, pronouncing the possessive /z/ in Mary’s book is also an option. My gut tells me pronouncing the /z/ is actually still the more common option even in AAVE, though I have no data to back that up. But it is definitely never wrong to pronounce the /z/ in contexts like Mary’s book.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
19 mins ago
@JanusBahsJacquet Okay, that makes sense. I think the grammatical rules of the dialect itself is different from the "standard grammar" rules.
– Strikers
15 mins ago
Exactly - African American Vernacular English can be loosely considered a dialect, but it is neither widespread nor common.
– user22542
2 hours ago
Exactly - African American Vernacular English can be loosely considered a dialect, but it is neither widespread nor common.
– user22542
2 hours ago
@user22542: It's definitely widespread—black people speak fairly similar forms of it in every corner of the U.S.
– Peter Shor
2 hours ago
@user22542: It's definitely widespread—black people speak fairly similar forms of it in every corner of the U.S.
– Peter Shor
2 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so it is just purely a dialect situation then. Thanks.
– Strikers
1 hour ago
@PeterShor Okay, so it is just purely a dialect situation then. Thanks.
– Strikers
1 hour ago
1
1
It’s worth noting that even in AAVE, pronouncing the possessive /z/ in Mary’s book is also an option. My gut tells me pronouncing the /z/ is actually still the more common option even in AAVE, though I have no data to back that up. But it is definitely never wrong to pronounce the /z/ in contexts like Mary’s book.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
19 mins ago
It’s worth noting that even in AAVE, pronouncing the possessive /z/ in Mary’s book is also an option. My gut tells me pronouncing the /z/ is actually still the more common option even in AAVE, though I have no data to back that up. But it is definitely never wrong to pronounce the /z/ in contexts like Mary’s book.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
19 mins ago
@JanusBahsJacquet Okay, that makes sense. I think the grammatical rules of the dialect itself is different from the "standard grammar" rules.
– Strikers
15 mins ago
@JanusBahsJacquet Okay, that makes sense. I think the grammatical rules of the dialect itself is different from the "standard grammar" rules.
– Strikers
15 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Strikers is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Strikers is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Strikers is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Could you translate that into English? If you're asking whether there are people who would tend to "swallow" the possessive S sound in this context, then, yes, there are people who will swallow most anything. But this is rare (for the possessive S, not political arguments).
– Hot Licks
3 hours ago
Hi, thank you for the response. I am wondering what you mean by "could you translate that into English? as I have written my question in English, (or are you giving a rhetorical question?). Also, I was asking whether removing the -s pronunciation is correct or not (and which is it?). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
I probably wouldn't pronounce the /z/ in "Claude's stuff". But leaving it out in "Mary's book" sounds really odd.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
@PeterShor Okay, so I would like to confirm which pronunciation is correct? In terms of a perspective approach, using correct grammatical rules (in the given context). Thanks.
– Strikers
3 hours ago
1
To get from John watches TV to John watch TV, you're deleting a whole syllable. You really can't do that.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago