Mixing
Could Black holes forge heavier elements that have yet to be discovered?
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up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Observations
The heaviest elements known in nature are forged deep within stars.
These elements are made possible by the high densities/temperature/pressures within the stars.
Black holes are known to have a much higher density/temperature/pressure than any known star.
Black holes are also known to be a phase of stellar evolution - this suggests that the original star's internal process of forging metals would persist within the resultant black hole.
Scientists have forged synthetic/ephemeral heavy metals under conditions which could hypothetically be sustained within a black hole.
Hypothesis:
Black holes forge heavier elements that have not been observed on earth. The conditions needed to sustain these elements are unique to the black hole, due to its high density/temperature/pressures. These conditions can be glimpsed, but not sustained in any experimental context
Follow up questions:
Has this been hypothesized?
Where can I find research on this topic?
black-hole stellar-evolution
asked 7 hours ago
efreezy
113
New contributor
efreezy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Observations
The heaviest elements known in nature are forged deep within stars.
These elements are made possible by the high densities/temperature/pressures within the stars.
Black holes are known to have a much higher density/temperature/pressure than any known star.
Black holes are also known to be a phase of stellar evolution - this suggests that the original star's internal process of forging metals would persist within the resultant black hole.
Scientists have forged synthetic/ephemeral heavy metals under conditions which could hypothetically be sustained within a black hole.
Hypothesis:
Black holes forge heavier elements that have not been observed on earth. The conditions needed to sustain these elements are unique to the black hole, due to its high density/temperature/pressures. These conditions can be glimpsed, but not sustained in any experimental context
Follow up questions:
Has this been hypothesized?
Where can I find research on this topic?
black-hole stellar-evolution
asked 7 hours ago
efreezy
113
New contributor
efreezy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I think you probably want to look into neutron stars, rather than black holes. The core of a neutron star is (very loosely speaking) a nucleus of a very heavy element. Like all sufficiently heavy elements, it would normally fly apart in a moment, but is held together by its own gravity and the mass of the crust of the neutron star piled on top of it. Concepts like density, temperature and pressure make sense for a neutron star, but not really for a black hole. I suggest you do dome reading (eg on wikipedia) on these subjects and come back with a more refined question.
– Steve Linton
7 hours ago
If they did then we wouldn't know.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Observations
The heaviest elements known in nature are forged deep within stars.
These elements are made possible by the high densities/temperature/pressures within the stars.
Black holes are known to have a much higher density/temperature/pressure than any known star.
Black holes are also known to be a phase of stellar evolution - this suggests that the original star's internal process of forging metals would persist within the resultant black hole.
Scientists have forged synthetic/ephemeral heavy metals under conditions which could hypothetically be sustained within a black hole.
Hypothesis:
Black holes forge heavier elements that have not been observed on earth. The conditions needed to sustain these elements are unique to the black hole, due to its high density/temperature/pressures. These conditions can be glimpsed, but not sustained in any experimental context
Follow up questions:
Has this been hypothesized?
Where can I find research on this topic?
black-hole stellar-evolution
asked 7 hours ago
efreezy
113
New contributor
efreezy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Observations
The heaviest elements known in nature are forged deep within stars.
These elements are made possible by the high densities/temperature/pressures within the stars.
Black holes are known to have a much higher density/temperature/pressure than any known star.
Black holes are also known to be a phase of stellar evolution - this suggests that the original star's internal process of forging metals would persist within the resultant black hole.
Scientists have forged synthetic/ephemeral heavy metals under conditions which could hypothetically be sustained within a black hole.
Hypothesis:
Black holes forge heavier elements that have not been observed on earth. The conditions needed to sustain these elements are unique to the black hole, due to its high density/temperature/pressures. These conditions can be glimpsed, but not sustained in any experimental context
Follow up questions:
Has this been hypothesized?
Where can I find research on this topic?
black-hole stellar-evolution
black-hole stellar-evolution
asked 7 hours ago
efreezy
113
New contributor
efreezy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 7 hours ago
efreezy
113
New contributor
efreezy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 6 hours ago
asked 7 hours ago
efreezy
113
New contributor
efreezy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 7 hours ago
efreezy
113
asked 7 hours ago
efreezy
113
113
New contributor
efreezy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
efreezy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
efreezy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I think you probably want to look into neutron stars, rather than black holes. The core of a neutron star is (very loosely speaking) a nucleus of a very heavy element. Like all sufficiently heavy elements, it would normally fly apart in a moment, but is held together by its own gravity and the mass of the crust of the neutron star piled on top of it. Concepts like density, temperature and pressure make sense for a neutron star, but not really for a black hole. I suggest you do dome reading (eg on wikipedia) on these subjects and come back with a more refined question.
– Steve Linton
7 hours ago
If they did then we wouldn't know.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
I think you probably want to look into neutron stars, rather than black holes. The core of a neutron star is (very loosely speaking) a nucleus of a very heavy element. Like all sufficiently heavy elements, it would normally fly apart in a moment, but is held together by its own gravity and the mass of the crust of the neutron star piled on top of it. Concepts like density, temperature and pressure make sense for a neutron star, but not really for a black hole. I suggest you do dome reading (eg on wikipedia) on these subjects and come back with a more refined question.
– Steve Linton
7 hours ago
If they did then we wouldn't know.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
I think you probably want to look into neutron stars, rather than black holes. The core of a neutron star is (very loosely speaking) a nucleus of a very heavy element. Like all sufficiently heavy elements, it would normally fly apart in a moment, but is held together by its own gravity and the mass of the crust of the neutron star piled on top of it. Concepts like density, temperature and pressure make sense for a neutron star, but not really for a black hole. I suggest you do dome reading (eg on wikipedia) on these subjects and come back with a more refined question.
– Steve Linton
7 hours ago
I think you probably want to look into neutron stars, rather than black holes. The core of a neutron star is (very loosely speaking) a nucleus of a very heavy element. Like all sufficiently heavy elements, it would normally fly apart in a moment, but is held together by its own gravity and the mass of the crust of the neutron star piled on top of it. Concepts like density, temperature and pressure make sense for a neutron star, but not really for a black hole. I suggest you do dome reading (eg on wikipedia) on these subjects and come back with a more refined question.
– Steve Linton
7 hours ago
If they did then we wouldn't know.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
If they did then we wouldn't know.
– badjohn
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
The problem of the superheavy elements is not that we can't forge them. Their problem is that they decay very quickly. For example, Oganesson, the heaviest element synthetised until now, has a half life of 181 ms.
In theory, even much heavier elements could be created in particle accelerators, but there is no way to even detect them.
In neutron stars, or in exploding supernovas, all the elements are created, but there is no way to even detect them. We can consider a neutron star as a large nucleus with $approx 10^56$ neutrons.
In black holes, the fact is that no one knows, what is in them. They don't radiate anything (with a very little exception), and nothing leaves the singularity in them. To understand, what is in them, would require currently unrealistic advancements in the Physics. The singularity in their center is probably not from baryonic matter, tough, thus we could hardly say for that it would be any chemical element.
answered 6 hours ago
peterh
1,24021025
1
Thanks for your perspective - there is a small misinterpretation which I should clarify better. I didn't suggest that we have a problem in forging the heavier metals. I hypothesized that black holes forge heavier elements, which have not been observed yet. I also suggested that the internal processes of the black hole might be best informed by that of its preceding star, namely the process of forging heavy metals. I then asked if this has already been hypothesized, and for references to any existing research.
– efreezy
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The heaviest elements known in nature are forged deep within stars.
No, the heaviest elements are made on Earth in scientific laboratories.
These elements are made possible by the high densities/temperature/pressures within the stars.
Yes, up to iron. The centres of the largest stars can not make any elements larger than iron. Larger elements can be made in supernovae and neutron star collisions.
Black holes are known to have a much higher density/temperature/pressure than any known star.
Black holes are actually very cold, they "absorb" any radiation that passes their event horizon. Outside the event horizon may be some very hot material, but it is not actually so hot compared to the core of a star.
Black holes are also known to be a phase of stellar evolution - this suggests that the original star's internal process of forging metals would persist within the resultant black hole.
No, inside the black hole everything falls, and reaches a singularity in a short amount of time.
Scientists have forged synthetic/ephemeral heavy metals under conditions which could hypothetically be sustained within a black hole.
As above, the conditions beyond the event horizon are unlike anything we have on Earth, because there is the unavoidable singularity.
After some matter has crossed the event horizon it will certainly come to the singularity. (in the same way as you will certainly reach tomorrow) And as it gets closer the tidal effects get greater, eventually ripping the atoms apart. The extreme gravity in a black hole will tend to pull matter apart not fusing it to larger atoms.
There may be nucleosynthesis in the accretion disc around a black hole. While the amount of high mass atoms made here is relatively small, it may be useful for the sake of detecting and distinguishing black holes from neutron stars or white dwarfs.
answered 4 hours ago
James K
29.7k24399
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I think the only way to know if any new elements have been created within Black Holes would be to have the means to intercept and collect the material of a small black hole that is being absorbed into a larger black hole.
answered 3 hours ago
FanofComets
557
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
The problem of the superheavy elements is not that we can't forge them. Their problem is that they decay very quickly. For example, Oganesson, the heaviest element synthetised until now, has a half life of 181 ms.
In theory, even much heavier elements could be created in particle accelerators, but there is no way to even detect them.
In neutron stars, or in exploding supernovas, all the elements are created, but there is no way to even detect them. We can consider a neutron star as a large nucleus with $approx 10^56$ neutrons.
In black holes, the fact is that no one knows, what is in them. They don't radiate anything (with a very little exception), and nothing leaves the singularity in them. To understand, what is in them, would require currently unrealistic advancements in the Physics. The singularity in their center is probably not from baryonic matter, tough, thus we could hardly say for that it would be any chemical element.
answered 6 hours ago
peterh
1,24021025
1
Thanks for your perspective - there is a small misinterpretation which I should clarify better. I didn't suggest that we have a problem in forging the heavier metals. I hypothesized that black holes forge heavier elements, which have not been observed yet. I also suggested that the internal processes of the black hole might be best informed by that of its preceding star, namely the process of forging heavy metals. I then asked if this has already been hypothesized, and for references to any existing research.
– efreezy
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
The problem of the superheavy elements is not that we can't forge them. Their problem is that they decay very quickly. For example, Oganesson, the heaviest element synthetised until now, has a half life of 181 ms.
In theory, even much heavier elements could be created in particle accelerators, but there is no way to even detect them.
In neutron stars, or in exploding supernovas, all the elements are created, but there is no way to even detect them. We can consider a neutron star as a large nucleus with $approx 10^56$ neutrons.
In black holes, the fact is that no one knows, what is in them. They don't radiate anything (with a very little exception), and nothing leaves the singularity in them. To understand, what is in them, would require currently unrealistic advancements in the Physics. The singularity in their center is probably not from baryonic matter, tough, thus we could hardly say for that it would be any chemical element.
answered 6 hours ago
peterh
1,24021025
1
Thanks for your perspective - there is a small misinterpretation which I should clarify better. I didn't suggest that we have a problem in forging the heavier metals. I hypothesized that black holes forge heavier elements, which have not been observed yet. I also suggested that the internal processes of the black hole might be best informed by that of its preceding star, namely the process of forging heavy metals. I then asked if this has already been hypothesized, and for references to any existing research.
– efreezy
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
The problem of the superheavy elements is not that we can't forge them. Their problem is that they decay very quickly. For example, Oganesson, the heaviest element synthetised until now, has a half life of 181 ms.
In theory, even much heavier elements could be created in particle accelerators, but there is no way to even detect them.
In neutron stars, or in exploding supernovas, all the elements are created, but there is no way to even detect them. We can consider a neutron star as a large nucleus with $approx 10^56$ neutrons.
In black holes, the fact is that no one knows, what is in them. They don't radiate anything (with a very little exception), and nothing leaves the singularity in them. To understand, what is in them, would require currently unrealistic advancements in the Physics. The singularity in their center is probably not from baryonic matter, tough, thus we could hardly say for that it would be any chemical element.
answered 6 hours ago
peterh
1,24021025
The problem of the superheavy elements is not that we can't forge them. Their problem is that they decay very quickly. For example, Oganesson, the heaviest element synthetised until now, has a half life of 181 ms.
In theory, even much heavier elements could be created in particle accelerators, but there is no way to even detect them.
In neutron stars, or in exploding supernovas, all the elements are created, but there is no way to even detect them. We can consider a neutron star as a large nucleus with $approx 10^56$ neutrons.
In black holes, the fact is that no one knows, what is in them. They don't radiate anything (with a very little exception), and nothing leaves the singularity in them. To understand, what is in them, would require currently unrealistic advancements in the Physics. The singularity in their center is probably not from baryonic matter, tough, thus we could hardly say for that it would be any chemical element.
answered 6 hours ago
peterh
1,24021025
answered 6 hours ago
peterh
1,24021025
answered 6 hours ago
peterh
1,24021025
answered 6 hours ago
peterh
1,24021025
1,24021025
1
Thanks for your perspective - there is a small misinterpretation which I should clarify better. I didn't suggest that we have a problem in forging the heavier metals. I hypothesized that black holes forge heavier elements, which have not been observed yet. I also suggested that the internal processes of the black hole might be best informed by that of its preceding star, namely the process of forging heavy metals. I then asked if this has already been hypothesized, and for references to any existing research.
– efreezy
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
Thanks for your perspective - there is a small misinterpretation which I should clarify better. I didn't suggest that we have a problem in forging the heavier metals. I hypothesized that black holes forge heavier elements, which have not been observed yet. I also suggested that the internal processes of the black hole might be best informed by that of its preceding star, namely the process of forging heavy metals. I then asked if this has already been hypothesized, and for references to any existing research.
– efreezy
6 hours ago
1
1
Thanks for your perspective - there is a small misinterpretation which I should clarify better. I didn't suggest that we have a problem in forging the heavier metals. I hypothesized that black holes forge heavier elements, which have not been observed yet. I also suggested that the internal processes of the black hole might be best informed by that of its preceding star, namely the process of forging heavy metals. I then asked if this has already been hypothesized, and for references to any existing research.
– efreezy
6 hours ago
Thanks for your perspective - there is a small misinterpretation which I should clarify better. I didn't suggest that we have a problem in forging the heavier metals. I hypothesized that black holes forge heavier elements, which have not been observed yet. I also suggested that the internal processes of the black hole might be best informed by that of its preceding star, namely the process of forging heavy metals. I then asked if this has already been hypothesized, and for references to any existing research.
– efreezy
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The heaviest elements known in nature are forged deep within stars.
No, the heaviest elements are made on Earth in scientific laboratories.
These elements are made possible by the high densities/temperature/pressures within the stars.
Yes, up to iron. The centres of the largest stars can not make any elements larger than iron. Larger elements can be made in supernovae and neutron star collisions.
Black holes are known to have a much higher density/temperature/pressure than any known star.
Black holes are actually very cold, they "absorb" any radiation that passes their event horizon. Outside the event horizon may be some very hot material, but it is not actually so hot compared to the core of a star.
Black holes are also known to be a phase of stellar evolution - this suggests that the original star's internal process of forging metals would persist within the resultant black hole.
No, inside the black hole everything falls, and reaches a singularity in a short amount of time.
Scientists have forged synthetic/ephemeral heavy metals under conditions which could hypothetically be sustained within a black hole.
As above, the conditions beyond the event horizon are unlike anything we have on Earth, because there is the unavoidable singularity.
After some matter has crossed the event horizon it will certainly come to the singularity. (in the same way as you will certainly reach tomorrow) And as it gets closer the tidal effects get greater, eventually ripping the atoms apart. The extreme gravity in a black hole will tend to pull matter apart not fusing it to larger atoms.
There may be nucleosynthesis in the accretion disc around a black hole. While the amount of high mass atoms made here is relatively small, it may be useful for the sake of detecting and distinguishing black holes from neutron stars or white dwarfs.
answered 4 hours ago
James K
29.7k24399
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The heaviest elements known in nature are forged deep within stars.
No, the heaviest elements are made on Earth in scientific laboratories.
These elements are made possible by the high densities/temperature/pressures within the stars.
Yes, up to iron. The centres of the largest stars can not make any elements larger than iron. Larger elements can be made in supernovae and neutron star collisions.
Black holes are known to have a much higher density/temperature/pressure than any known star.
Black holes are actually very cold, they "absorb" any radiation that passes their event horizon. Outside the event horizon may be some very hot material, but it is not actually so hot compared to the core of a star.
Black holes are also known to be a phase of stellar evolution - this suggests that the original star's internal process of forging metals would persist within the resultant black hole.
No, inside the black hole everything falls, and reaches a singularity in a short amount of time.
Scientists have forged synthetic/ephemeral heavy metals under conditions which could hypothetically be sustained within a black hole.
As above, the conditions beyond the event horizon are unlike anything we have on Earth, because there is the unavoidable singularity.
After some matter has crossed the event horizon it will certainly come to the singularity. (in the same way as you will certainly reach tomorrow) And as it gets closer the tidal effects get greater, eventually ripping the atoms apart. The extreme gravity in a black hole will tend to pull matter apart not fusing it to larger atoms.
There may be nucleosynthesis in the accretion disc around a black hole. While the amount of high mass atoms made here is relatively small, it may be useful for the sake of detecting and distinguishing black holes from neutron stars or white dwarfs.
answered 4 hours ago
James K
29.7k24399
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The heaviest elements known in nature are forged deep within stars.
No, the heaviest elements are made on Earth in scientific laboratories.
These elements are made possible by the high densities/temperature/pressures within the stars.
Yes, up to iron. The centres of the largest stars can not make any elements larger than iron. Larger elements can be made in supernovae and neutron star collisions.
Black holes are known to have a much higher density/temperature/pressure than any known star.
Black holes are actually very cold, they "absorb" any radiation that passes their event horizon. Outside the event horizon may be some very hot material, but it is not actually so hot compared to the core of a star.
Black holes are also known to be a phase of stellar evolution - this suggests that the original star's internal process of forging metals would persist within the resultant black hole.
No, inside the black hole everything falls, and reaches a singularity in a short amount of time.
Scientists have forged synthetic/ephemeral heavy metals under conditions which could hypothetically be sustained within a black hole.
As above, the conditions beyond the event horizon are unlike anything we have on Earth, because there is the unavoidable singularity.
After some matter has crossed the event horizon it will certainly come to the singularity. (in the same way as you will certainly reach tomorrow) And as it gets closer the tidal effects get greater, eventually ripping the atoms apart. The extreme gravity in a black hole will tend to pull matter apart not fusing it to larger atoms.
There may be nucleosynthesis in the accretion disc around a black hole. While the amount of high mass atoms made here is relatively small, it may be useful for the sake of detecting and distinguishing black holes from neutron stars or white dwarfs.
answered 4 hours ago
James K
29.7k24399
The heaviest elements known in nature are forged deep within stars.
No, the heaviest elements are made on Earth in scientific laboratories.
These elements are made possible by the high densities/temperature/pressures within the stars.
Yes, up to iron. The centres of the largest stars can not make any elements larger than iron. Larger elements can be made in supernovae and neutron star collisions.
Black holes are known to have a much higher density/temperature/pressure than any known star.
Black holes are actually very cold, they "absorb" any radiation that passes their event horizon. Outside the event horizon may be some very hot material, but it is not actually so hot compared to the core of a star.
Black holes are also known to be a phase of stellar evolution - this suggests that the original star's internal process of forging metals would persist within the resultant black hole.
No, inside the black hole everything falls, and reaches a singularity in a short amount of time.
Scientists have forged synthetic/ephemeral heavy metals under conditions which could hypothetically be sustained within a black hole.
As above, the conditions beyond the event horizon are unlike anything we have on Earth, because there is the unavoidable singularity.
After some matter has crossed the event horizon it will certainly come to the singularity. (in the same way as you will certainly reach tomorrow) And as it gets closer the tidal effects get greater, eventually ripping the atoms apart. The extreme gravity in a black hole will tend to pull matter apart not fusing it to larger atoms.
There may be nucleosynthesis in the accretion disc around a black hole. While the amount of high mass atoms made here is relatively small, it may be useful for the sake of detecting and distinguishing black holes from neutron stars or white dwarfs.
answered 4 hours ago
James K
29.7k24399
answered 4 hours ago
James K
29.7k24399
answered 4 hours ago
James K
29.7k24399
answered 4 hours ago
James K
29.7k24399
29.7k24399
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I think the only way to know if any new elements have been created within Black Holes would be to have the means to intercept and collect the material of a small black hole that is being absorbed into a larger black hole.
answered 3 hours ago
FanofComets
557
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I think the only way to know if any new elements have been created within Black Holes would be to have the means to intercept and collect the material of a small black hole that is being absorbed into a larger black hole.
answered 3 hours ago
FanofComets
557
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I think the only way to know if any new elements have been created within Black Holes would be to have the means to intercept and collect the material of a small black hole that is being absorbed into a larger black hole.
answered 3 hours ago
FanofComets
557
I think the only way to know if any new elements have been created within Black Holes would be to have the means to intercept and collect the material of a small black hole that is being absorbed into a larger black hole.
answered 3 hours ago
FanofComets
557
answered 3 hours ago
FanofComets
557
answered 3 hours ago
FanofComets
557
answered 3 hours ago
FanofComets
557
557
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
efreezy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
efreezy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
efreezy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
efreezy is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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I think you probably want to look into neutron stars, rather than black holes. The core of a neutron star is (very loosely speaking) a nucleus of a very heavy element. Like all sufficiently heavy elements, it would normally fly apart in a moment, but is held together by its own gravity and the mass of the crust of the neutron star piled on top of it. Concepts like density, temperature and pressure make sense for a neutron star, but not really for a black hole. I suggest you do dome reading (eg on wikipedia) on these subjects and come back with a more refined question.
– Steve Linton
7 hours ago
If they did then we wouldn't know.
– badjohn
7 hours ago