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How should I avoid being in the shadow of my PhD advisor after I have my own faculty position?
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I would like to receive some feedback from the community about the following situation.
I have a permanent position as associate professor in an institution for some years now (3). This institution is the one I did my PhD 10 years ago, and in particular I am in the same department as my PhD advisor (who is a Full Professor).
Despite having my own research line independent of the one of my PhD advisor (namely, I have my own research problems, projects, collaborators, etc), the truth is that I also continue working with her, and being sincere I trust that my contribution on works is as important as her contribution. I am advising PhD students on different topics, I have my own national research project, etc.
I know that this should not bother me too much, but the truth is that at the end the person who receives the recognition of our work is her. Here by recognition I mean invitations to conferences, seminars, being in committees and things like this. I also know that being on an early stage is not the same as being a well-stablished professor, but when this happens on a regular basis, it makes me start to feel bad. Just to give an example, in the last year I have not been invited to give any seminars abroad, while she has been invited to present our work at least 3 times.
It has come to a point where I believe that having worked as crazy to get this position in a university in the city I wanted to live (because this one of the main reasons I picked this position... I love the city and most important, it solved the 2 body problem), it comes with the problem that I will always be 'the student of *' in the eyes of everybody, even if I obtain significant breakthroughs on my own. I trust that this will affect, for instance, if I want to become a full professor some day soon.
The question is the following: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but in the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining in the previous paragraphs.
So, I would really appreciate advice from the community. I find it a little radical to stop collaborating scientifically with her (in part because there is no one around working on this area!), but as time goes by it seems to me that the best option is to start working alone on this common area, or some similar solution...
publications advisor career-path early-career
edited 19 mins ago
David Ketcheson
27.5k684138
asked 22 hours ago
Gaussian-Matter
9711918
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
I would like to receive some feedback from the community about the following situation.
I have a permanent position as associate professor in an institution for some years now (3). This institution is the one I did my PhD 10 years ago, and in particular I am in the same department as my PhD advisor (who is a Full Professor).
Despite having my own research line independent of the one of my PhD advisor (namely, I have my own research problems, projects, collaborators, etc), the truth is that I also continue working with her, and being sincere I trust that my contribution on works is as important as her contribution. I am advising PhD students on different topics, I have my own national research project, etc.
I know that this should not bother me too much, but the truth is that at the end the person who receives the recognition of our work is her. Here by recognition I mean invitations to conferences, seminars, being in committees and things like this. I also know that being on an early stage is not the same as being a well-stablished professor, but when this happens on a regular basis, it makes me start to feel bad. Just to give an example, in the last year I have not been invited to give any seminars abroad, while she has been invited to present our work at least 3 times.
It has come to a point where I believe that having worked as crazy to get this position in a university in the city I wanted to live (because this one of the main reasons I picked this position... I love the city and most important, it solved the 2 body problem), it comes with the problem that I will always be 'the student of *' in the eyes of everybody, even if I obtain significant breakthroughs on my own. I trust that this will affect, for instance, if I want to become a full professor some day soon.
The question is the following: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but in the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining in the previous paragraphs.
So, I would really appreciate advice from the community. I find it a little radical to stop collaborating scientifically with her (in part because there is no one around working on this area!), but as time goes by it seems to me that the best option is to start working alone on this common area, or some similar solution...
publications advisor career-path early-career
edited 19 mins ago
David Ketcheson
27.5k684138
asked 22 hours ago
Gaussian-Matter
9711918
The general question may be: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but on the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining...
– Gaussian-Matter
22 hours ago
3
Important information is missing: who is the corresponding author on your shared papers?
– Doru Constantin
20 hours ago
Forgot to say that: we are pure mathematicians, which means that we sign the papers in alphabetical order. So no distinction between authors
– Gaussian-Matter
20 hours ago
1
The corresponding author does not have to be the same as the first name alphabetically. What @DoruConstantin is asking is who your papers state is the person to direct correspondance to.
– Phil
19 hours ago
2
I think there is a useful question in here, but the title needs to be changed and most of the specific details in the body should be removed. It may be easier to close this and ask a new question that is clear and short. @Gaussian-Matter if you are okay with me drastically revising your question then I could try to trim and clarify it.
– David Ketcheson
19 hours ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
I would like to receive some feedback from the community about the following situation.
I have a permanent position as associate professor in an institution for some years now (3). This institution is the one I did my PhD 10 years ago, and in particular I am in the same department as my PhD advisor (who is a Full Professor).
Despite having my own research line independent of the one of my PhD advisor (namely, I have my own research problems, projects, collaborators, etc), the truth is that I also continue working with her, and being sincere I trust that my contribution on works is as important as her contribution. I am advising PhD students on different topics, I have my own national research project, etc.
I know that this should not bother me too much, but the truth is that at the end the person who receives the recognition of our work is her. Here by recognition I mean invitations to conferences, seminars, being in committees and things like this. I also know that being on an early stage is not the same as being a well-stablished professor, but when this happens on a regular basis, it makes me start to feel bad. Just to give an example, in the last year I have not been invited to give any seminars abroad, while she has been invited to present our work at least 3 times.
It has come to a point where I believe that having worked as crazy to get this position in a university in the city I wanted to live (because this one of the main reasons I picked this position... I love the city and most important, it solved the 2 body problem), it comes with the problem that I will always be 'the student of *' in the eyes of everybody, even if I obtain significant breakthroughs on my own. I trust that this will affect, for instance, if I want to become a full professor some day soon.
The question is the following: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but in the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining in the previous paragraphs.
So, I would really appreciate advice from the community. I find it a little radical to stop collaborating scientifically with her (in part because there is no one around working on this area!), but as time goes by it seems to me that the best option is to start working alone on this common area, or some similar solution...
publications advisor career-path early-career
edited 19 mins ago
David Ketcheson
27.5k684138
asked 22 hours ago
Gaussian-Matter
9711918
I would like to receive some feedback from the community about the following situation.
I have a permanent position as associate professor in an institution for some years now (3). This institution is the one I did my PhD 10 years ago, and in particular I am in the same department as my PhD advisor (who is a Full Professor).
Despite having my own research line independent of the one of my PhD advisor (namely, I have my own research problems, projects, collaborators, etc), the truth is that I also continue working with her, and being sincere I trust that my contribution on works is as important as her contribution. I am advising PhD students on different topics, I have my own national research project, etc.
I know that this should not bother me too much, but the truth is that at the end the person who receives the recognition of our work is her. Here by recognition I mean invitations to conferences, seminars, being in committees and things like this. I also know that being on an early stage is not the same as being a well-stablished professor, but when this happens on a regular basis, it makes me start to feel bad. Just to give an example, in the last year I have not been invited to give any seminars abroad, while she has been invited to present our work at least 3 times.
It has come to a point where I believe that having worked as crazy to get this position in a university in the city I wanted to live (because this one of the main reasons I picked this position... I love the city and most important, it solved the 2 body problem), it comes with the problem that I will always be 'the student of *' in the eyes of everybody, even if I obtain significant breakthroughs on my own. I trust that this will affect, for instance, if I want to become a full professor some day soon.
The question is the following: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but in the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining in the previous paragraphs.
So, I would really appreciate advice from the community. I find it a little radical to stop collaborating scientifically with her (in part because there is no one around working on this area!), but as time goes by it seems to me that the best option is to start working alone on this common area, or some similar solution...
publications advisor career-path early-career
publications advisor career-path early-career
edited 19 mins ago
David Ketcheson
27.5k684138
asked 22 hours ago
Gaussian-Matter
9711918
edited 19 mins ago
David Ketcheson
27.5k684138
asked 22 hours ago
Gaussian-Matter
9711918
edited 19 mins ago
David Ketcheson
27.5k684138
edited 19 mins ago
David Ketcheson
27.5k684138
edited 19 mins ago
David Ketcheson
27.5k684138
27.5k684138
asked 22 hours ago
Gaussian-Matter
9711918
asked 22 hours ago
Gaussian-Matter
9711918
asked 22 hours ago
Gaussian-Matter
9711918
9711918
The general question may be: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but on the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining...
– Gaussian-Matter
22 hours ago
3
Important information is missing: who is the corresponding author on your shared papers?
– Doru Constantin
20 hours ago
Forgot to say that: we are pure mathematicians, which means that we sign the papers in alphabetical order. So no distinction between authors
– Gaussian-Matter
20 hours ago
1
The corresponding author does not have to be the same as the first name alphabetically. What @DoruConstantin is asking is who your papers state is the person to direct correspondance to.
– Phil
19 hours ago
2
I think there is a useful question in here, but the title needs to be changed and most of the specific details in the body should be removed. It may be easier to close this and ask a new question that is clear and short. @Gaussian-Matter if you are okay with me drastically revising your question then I could try to trim and clarify it.
– David Ketcheson
19 hours ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
The general question may be: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but on the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining...
– Gaussian-Matter
22 hours ago
3
Important information is missing: who is the corresponding author on your shared papers?
– Doru Constantin
20 hours ago
Forgot to say that: we are pure mathematicians, which means that we sign the papers in alphabetical order. So no distinction between authors
– Gaussian-Matter
20 hours ago
1
The corresponding author does not have to be the same as the first name alphabetically. What @DoruConstantin is asking is who your papers state is the person to direct correspondance to.
– Phil
19 hours ago
2
I think there is a useful question in here, but the title needs to be changed and most of the specific details in the body should be removed. It may be easier to close this and ask a new question that is clear and short. @Gaussian-Matter if you are okay with me drastically revising your question then I could try to trim and clarify it.
– David Ketcheson
19 hours ago
The general question may be: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but on the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining...
– Gaussian-Matter
22 hours ago
The general question may be: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but on the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining...
– Gaussian-Matter
22 hours ago
3
3
Important information is missing: who is the corresponding author on your shared papers?
– Doru Constantin
20 hours ago
Important information is missing: who is the corresponding author on your shared papers?
– Doru Constantin
20 hours ago
Forgot to say that: we are pure mathematicians, which means that we sign the papers in alphabetical order. So no distinction between authors
– Gaussian-Matter
20 hours ago
Forgot to say that: we are pure mathematicians, which means that we sign the papers in alphabetical order. So no distinction between authors
– Gaussian-Matter
20 hours ago
1
1
The corresponding author does not have to be the same as the first name alphabetically. What @DoruConstantin is asking is who your papers state is the person to direct correspondance to.
– Phil
19 hours ago
The corresponding author does not have to be the same as the first name alphabetically. What @DoruConstantin is asking is who your papers state is the person to direct correspondance to.
– Phil
19 hours ago
2
2
I think there is a useful question in here, but the title needs to be changed and most of the specific details in the body should be removed. It may be easier to close this and ask a new question that is clear and short. @Gaussian-Matter if you are okay with me drastically revising your question then I could try to trim and clarify it.
– David Ketcheson
19 hours ago
I think there is a useful question in here, but the title needs to be changed and most of the specific details in the body should be removed. It may be easier to close this and ask a new question that is clear and short. @Gaussian-Matter if you are okay with me drastically revising your question then I could try to trim and clarify it.
– David Ketcheson
19 hours ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
34
down vote
accepted
I find a little radical to stop collaborating scientifically with her (in part because there is no one around working on this area!), but as the time goes by it seems to me that the best option is to start working alone on this common area, or some similar solution...
There is some truth to the often-heard advise that one should stop regularly collaborating with one's PhD advisor after getting a PhD. I would argue this is doubly the case when you and your advisor work at the same place. To the outside world, you will always appear to be the "junior" in your collaboration, independently of who does how much work, who has had which ideas, or who is where in the paper author list.
My impression is that in the career stage that you are in, you should prioritize collaborations where you are the most senior person in the team, or where you are at least not overshadowed by somebody much more famous than you. Work on papers with your students, or with other people in a similar or earlier career stage than you. Avoid collaborations where you do all the work and some other eminent figure in the community (your advisor or some other senior professor) could be seen as the strategic brains behind the work.
answered 19 hours ago
xLeitix
96.3k34230377
I think that's a very useful advise :-)
– Gaussian-Matter
18 hours ago
8
I think the key point here, is not to work independently on the same topic, but to have a sufficiently different topic that no one would consider inviting her to talk about it. And then invest heavily in that line of investigation. You can still keep your collaboration going as a side project, but don't ever expect to be recognised for it and balance your priorities accordingly.
– Ian Sudbery
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Here is a somewhat radical suggestion that my apply or not, depending on personalities. If your mentor/collaborator is anywhere near retirement this may be especially useful. It is a bit risky (or not) depending on her attitudes and place in the profession.
But you could, perhaps, just start a conversation with her letting her know that you think your career "needs a boost" and ask if she can help you get to the next level. Many people will respond positively to this, in fact. My personal attitude is that I am happiest when I fall into the shadow of one of my former students. After all, our job is to advance the state of the art, not only through our own work, but by teaching students to do the same.
If she thinks enough of you and of the work you both are doing, she will want it to continue after she leaves the scene and you are probably a good vehicle for carrying it forward.
But small steps are to make sure that you go to those conferences with her and become personally known in the community. Find a way to be the presenter of your joint work. Find a way to be the corresponding author on papers so you get contacted by committee chairs and editors.
Don't ignore the other answers here, of course. Work that you do alone or with other collaborators will help distinguish you from your former advisor. But it is a long process. Your early-career tag on the question says a lot. With ten years in the saddle you have a long way to ride and your former advisor won't be a riding companion for the whole way. But take advantage of your association while you can, rather than trying to sever it. Make her the champion of your career advancement if at all possible.
answered 16 hours ago
Buffy
26k683140
1
I'm afraid I have to downvote this. First, it's unlikely that OP could become an associate professor without an independent research reputation. More importantly, neither OP nor their advisor has much control over how people ascribe credit to their joint work. The advisor will always be more senior; OP will always be more junior, and first/corresponding-authorship won't change that. The only sure way to really get out from under your advisor's shadow is to develop a research record that does not involve your advisor at all.
– JeffE
9 hours ago
@JeffE, you are welcome to downvote, of course, but I have counterexamples to your statements. Long term collaborations, though not at the same university. Giving up a mentor seems counterproductive to and advancing career. BTW, thanks for giving the reason for the vote, too few people here are courteous enough to do that. Cheers.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I believe the infallible way towards academic recognition is being clearly responsible for major breakthroughs in your field. Probably you have put yourself where you are, by consistently directing the spotlights to your senior author(s). Making someone else honorary first/corresponding author, as well as letting them present your work sure "gives face" to peers and shows reverence. If you got where you are because of such acts of "loyalty" then stopping it will quickly generate conflicts.
But unfortunately there's no other way around this: publish independent research (meaning the best you can produce), stand where you belong, present your work directly. No more special thanks at the end to honorary seniors. Discuss that openly with your ex-advisor, who may feel betrayed.
And by all means, do not expect nor induce some student to give you the face you've given your advisor as in the shape of some karmic payback. This is not a cycle.
answered 18 hours ago
Scientist
6,11112254
3
Hmmm. Major breakthroughs are pretty rare in nearly every field. You can be a success with much less.
– Buffy
17 hours ago
@Buffy Only time will testify whether anything was major or not, but we can always aim for significant questions in the short term. In my field I feel like major steps are actually quite trivial, but perhaps I am biased.
– Scientist
13 hours ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
34
down vote
accepted
I find a little radical to stop collaborating scientifically with her (in part because there is no one around working on this area!), but as the time goes by it seems to me that the best option is to start working alone on this common area, or some similar solution...
There is some truth to the often-heard advise that one should stop regularly collaborating with one's PhD advisor after getting a PhD. I would argue this is doubly the case when you and your advisor work at the same place. To the outside world, you will always appear to be the "junior" in your collaboration, independently of who does how much work, who has had which ideas, or who is where in the paper author list.
My impression is that in the career stage that you are in, you should prioritize collaborations where you are the most senior person in the team, or where you are at least not overshadowed by somebody much more famous than you. Work on papers with your students, or with other people in a similar or earlier career stage than you. Avoid collaborations where you do all the work and some other eminent figure in the community (your advisor or some other senior professor) could be seen as the strategic brains behind the work.
answered 19 hours ago
xLeitix
96.3k34230377
I think that's a very useful advise :-)
– Gaussian-Matter
18 hours ago
8
I think the key point here, is not to work independently on the same topic, but to have a sufficiently different topic that no one would consider inviting her to talk about it. And then invest heavily in that line of investigation. You can still keep your collaboration going as a side project, but don't ever expect to be recognised for it and balance your priorities accordingly.
– Ian Sudbery
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
34
down vote
accepted
I find a little radical to stop collaborating scientifically with her (in part because there is no one around working on this area!), but as the time goes by it seems to me that the best option is to start working alone on this common area, or some similar solution...
There is some truth to the often-heard advise that one should stop regularly collaborating with one's PhD advisor after getting a PhD. I would argue this is doubly the case when you and your advisor work at the same place. To the outside world, you will always appear to be the "junior" in your collaboration, independently of who does how much work, who has had which ideas, or who is where in the paper author list.
My impression is that in the career stage that you are in, you should prioritize collaborations where you are the most senior person in the team, or where you are at least not overshadowed by somebody much more famous than you. Work on papers with your students, or with other people in a similar or earlier career stage than you. Avoid collaborations where you do all the work and some other eminent figure in the community (your advisor or some other senior professor) could be seen as the strategic brains behind the work.
answered 19 hours ago
xLeitix
96.3k34230377
I think that's a very useful advise :-)
– Gaussian-Matter
18 hours ago
8
I think the key point here, is not to work independently on the same topic, but to have a sufficiently different topic that no one would consider inviting her to talk about it. And then invest heavily in that line of investigation. You can still keep your collaboration going as a side project, but don't ever expect to be recognised for it and balance your priorities accordingly.
– Ian Sudbery
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
34
down vote
accepted
up vote
34
down vote
accepted
I find a little radical to stop collaborating scientifically with her (in part because there is no one around working on this area!), but as the time goes by it seems to me that the best option is to start working alone on this common area, or some similar solution...
There is some truth to the often-heard advise that one should stop regularly collaborating with one's PhD advisor after getting a PhD. I would argue this is doubly the case when you and your advisor work at the same place. To the outside world, you will always appear to be the "junior" in your collaboration, independently of who does how much work, who has had which ideas, or who is where in the paper author list.
My impression is that in the career stage that you are in, you should prioritize collaborations where you are the most senior person in the team, or where you are at least not overshadowed by somebody much more famous than you. Work on papers with your students, or with other people in a similar or earlier career stage than you. Avoid collaborations where you do all the work and some other eminent figure in the community (your advisor or some other senior professor) could be seen as the strategic brains behind the work.
answered 19 hours ago
xLeitix
96.3k34230377
I find a little radical to stop collaborating scientifically with her (in part because there is no one around working on this area!), but as the time goes by it seems to me that the best option is to start working alone on this common area, or some similar solution...
There is some truth to the often-heard advise that one should stop regularly collaborating with one's PhD advisor after getting a PhD. I would argue this is doubly the case when you and your advisor work at the same place. To the outside world, you will always appear to be the "junior" in your collaboration, independently of who does how much work, who has had which ideas, or who is where in the paper author list.
My impression is that in the career stage that you are in, you should prioritize collaborations where you are the most senior person in the team, or where you are at least not overshadowed by somebody much more famous than you. Work on papers with your students, or with other people in a similar or earlier career stage than you. Avoid collaborations where you do all the work and some other eminent figure in the community (your advisor or some other senior professor) could be seen as the strategic brains behind the work.
answered 19 hours ago
xLeitix
96.3k34230377
answered 19 hours ago
xLeitix
96.3k34230377
answered 19 hours ago
xLeitix
96.3k34230377
answered 19 hours ago
xLeitix
96.3k34230377
96.3k34230377
I think that's a very useful advise :-)
– Gaussian-Matter
18 hours ago
8
I think the key point here, is not to work independently on the same topic, but to have a sufficiently different topic that no one would consider inviting her to talk about it. And then invest heavily in that line of investigation. You can still keep your collaboration going as a side project, but don't ever expect to be recognised for it and balance your priorities accordingly.
– Ian Sudbery
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
I think that's a very useful advise :-)
– Gaussian-Matter
18 hours ago
8
I think the key point here, is not to work independently on the same topic, but to have a sufficiently different topic that no one would consider inviting her to talk about it. And then invest heavily in that line of investigation. You can still keep your collaboration going as a side project, but don't ever expect to be recognised for it and balance your priorities accordingly.
– Ian Sudbery
18 hours ago
I think that's a very useful advise :-)
– Gaussian-Matter
18 hours ago
I think that's a very useful advise :-)
– Gaussian-Matter
18 hours ago
8
8
I think the key point here, is not to work independently on the same topic, but to have a sufficiently different topic that no one would consider inviting her to talk about it. And then invest heavily in that line of investigation. You can still keep your collaboration going as a side project, but don't ever expect to be recognised for it and balance your priorities accordingly.
– Ian Sudbery
18 hours ago
I think the key point here, is not to work independently on the same topic, but to have a sufficiently different topic that no one would consider inviting her to talk about it. And then invest heavily in that line of investigation. You can still keep your collaboration going as a side project, but don't ever expect to be recognised for it and balance your priorities accordingly.
– Ian Sudbery
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Here is a somewhat radical suggestion that my apply or not, depending on personalities. If your mentor/collaborator is anywhere near retirement this may be especially useful. It is a bit risky (or not) depending on her attitudes and place in the profession.
But you could, perhaps, just start a conversation with her letting her know that you think your career "needs a boost" and ask if she can help you get to the next level. Many people will respond positively to this, in fact. My personal attitude is that I am happiest when I fall into the shadow of one of my former students. After all, our job is to advance the state of the art, not only through our own work, but by teaching students to do the same.
If she thinks enough of you and of the work you both are doing, she will want it to continue after she leaves the scene and you are probably a good vehicle for carrying it forward.
But small steps are to make sure that you go to those conferences with her and become personally known in the community. Find a way to be the presenter of your joint work. Find a way to be the corresponding author on papers so you get contacted by committee chairs and editors.
Don't ignore the other answers here, of course. Work that you do alone or with other collaborators will help distinguish you from your former advisor. But it is a long process. Your early-career tag on the question says a lot. With ten years in the saddle you have a long way to ride and your former advisor won't be a riding companion for the whole way. But take advantage of your association while you can, rather than trying to sever it. Make her the champion of your career advancement if at all possible.
answered 16 hours ago
Buffy
26k683140
1
I'm afraid I have to downvote this. First, it's unlikely that OP could become an associate professor without an independent research reputation. More importantly, neither OP nor their advisor has much control over how people ascribe credit to their joint work. The advisor will always be more senior; OP will always be more junior, and first/corresponding-authorship won't change that. The only sure way to really get out from under your advisor's shadow is to develop a research record that does not involve your advisor at all.
– JeffE
9 hours ago
@JeffE, you are welcome to downvote, of course, but I have counterexamples to your statements. Long term collaborations, though not at the same university. Giving up a mentor seems counterproductive to and advancing career. BTW, thanks for giving the reason for the vote, too few people here are courteous enough to do that. Cheers.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Here is a somewhat radical suggestion that my apply or not, depending on personalities. If your mentor/collaborator is anywhere near retirement this may be especially useful. It is a bit risky (or not) depending on her attitudes and place in the profession.
But you could, perhaps, just start a conversation with her letting her know that you think your career "needs a boost" and ask if she can help you get to the next level. Many people will respond positively to this, in fact. My personal attitude is that I am happiest when I fall into the shadow of one of my former students. After all, our job is to advance the state of the art, not only through our own work, but by teaching students to do the same.
If she thinks enough of you and of the work you both are doing, she will want it to continue after she leaves the scene and you are probably a good vehicle for carrying it forward.
But small steps are to make sure that you go to those conferences with her and become personally known in the community. Find a way to be the presenter of your joint work. Find a way to be the corresponding author on papers so you get contacted by committee chairs and editors.
Don't ignore the other answers here, of course. Work that you do alone or with other collaborators will help distinguish you from your former advisor. But it is a long process. Your early-career tag on the question says a lot. With ten years in the saddle you have a long way to ride and your former advisor won't be a riding companion for the whole way. But take advantage of your association while you can, rather than trying to sever it. Make her the champion of your career advancement if at all possible.
answered 16 hours ago
Buffy
26k683140
1
I'm afraid I have to downvote this. First, it's unlikely that OP could become an associate professor without an independent research reputation. More importantly, neither OP nor their advisor has much control over how people ascribe credit to their joint work. The advisor will always be more senior; OP will always be more junior, and first/corresponding-authorship won't change that. The only sure way to really get out from under your advisor's shadow is to develop a research record that does not involve your advisor at all.
– JeffE
9 hours ago
@JeffE, you are welcome to downvote, of course, but I have counterexamples to your statements. Long term collaborations, though not at the same university. Giving up a mentor seems counterproductive to and advancing career. BTW, thanks for giving the reason for the vote, too few people here are courteous enough to do that. Cheers.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Here is a somewhat radical suggestion that my apply or not, depending on personalities. If your mentor/collaborator is anywhere near retirement this may be especially useful. It is a bit risky (or not) depending on her attitudes and place in the profession.
But you could, perhaps, just start a conversation with her letting her know that you think your career "needs a boost" and ask if she can help you get to the next level. Many people will respond positively to this, in fact. My personal attitude is that I am happiest when I fall into the shadow of one of my former students. After all, our job is to advance the state of the art, not only through our own work, but by teaching students to do the same.
If she thinks enough of you and of the work you both are doing, she will want it to continue after she leaves the scene and you are probably a good vehicle for carrying it forward.
But small steps are to make sure that you go to those conferences with her and become personally known in the community. Find a way to be the presenter of your joint work. Find a way to be the corresponding author on papers so you get contacted by committee chairs and editors.
Don't ignore the other answers here, of course. Work that you do alone or with other collaborators will help distinguish you from your former advisor. But it is a long process. Your early-career tag on the question says a lot. With ten years in the saddle you have a long way to ride and your former advisor won't be a riding companion for the whole way. But take advantage of your association while you can, rather than trying to sever it. Make her the champion of your career advancement if at all possible.
answered 16 hours ago
Buffy
26k683140
Here is a somewhat radical suggestion that my apply or not, depending on personalities. If your mentor/collaborator is anywhere near retirement this may be especially useful. It is a bit risky (or not) depending on her attitudes and place in the profession.
But you could, perhaps, just start a conversation with her letting her know that you think your career "needs a boost" and ask if she can help you get to the next level. Many people will respond positively to this, in fact. My personal attitude is that I am happiest when I fall into the shadow of one of my former students. After all, our job is to advance the state of the art, not only through our own work, but by teaching students to do the same.
If she thinks enough of you and of the work you both are doing, she will want it to continue after she leaves the scene and you are probably a good vehicle for carrying it forward.
But small steps are to make sure that you go to those conferences with her and become personally known in the community. Find a way to be the presenter of your joint work. Find a way to be the corresponding author on papers so you get contacted by committee chairs and editors.
Don't ignore the other answers here, of course. Work that you do alone or with other collaborators will help distinguish you from your former advisor. But it is a long process. Your early-career tag on the question says a lot. With ten years in the saddle you have a long way to ride and your former advisor won't be a riding companion for the whole way. But take advantage of your association while you can, rather than trying to sever it. Make her the champion of your career advancement if at all possible.
answered 16 hours ago
Buffy
26k683140
answered 16 hours ago
Buffy
26k683140
answered 16 hours ago
Buffy
26k683140
answered 16 hours ago
Buffy
26k683140
26k683140
1
I'm afraid I have to downvote this. First, it's unlikely that OP could become an associate professor without an independent research reputation. More importantly, neither OP nor their advisor has much control over how people ascribe credit to their joint work. The advisor will always be more senior; OP will always be more junior, and first/corresponding-authorship won't change that. The only sure way to really get out from under your advisor's shadow is to develop a research record that does not involve your advisor at all.
– JeffE
9 hours ago
@JeffE, you are welcome to downvote, of course, but I have counterexamples to your statements. Long term collaborations, though not at the same university. Giving up a mentor seems counterproductive to and advancing career. BTW, thanks for giving the reason for the vote, too few people here are courteous enough to do that. Cheers.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
I'm afraid I have to downvote this. First, it's unlikely that OP could become an associate professor without an independent research reputation. More importantly, neither OP nor their advisor has much control over how people ascribe credit to their joint work. The advisor will always be more senior; OP will always be more junior, and first/corresponding-authorship won't change that. The only sure way to really get out from under your advisor's shadow is to develop a research record that does not involve your advisor at all.
– JeffE
9 hours ago
@JeffE, you are welcome to downvote, of course, but I have counterexamples to your statements. Long term collaborations, though not at the same university. Giving up a mentor seems counterproductive to and advancing career. BTW, thanks for giving the reason for the vote, too few people here are courteous enough to do that. Cheers.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
1
1
I'm afraid I have to downvote this. First, it's unlikely that OP could become an associate professor without an independent research reputation. More importantly, neither OP nor their advisor has much control over how people ascribe credit to their joint work. The advisor will always be more senior; OP will always be more junior, and first/corresponding-authorship won't change that. The only sure way to really get out from under your advisor's shadow is to develop a research record that does not involve your advisor at all.
– JeffE
9 hours ago
I'm afraid I have to downvote this. First, it's unlikely that OP could become an associate professor without an independent research reputation. More importantly, neither OP nor their advisor has much control over how people ascribe credit to their joint work. The advisor will always be more senior; OP will always be more junior, and first/corresponding-authorship won't change that. The only sure way to really get out from under your advisor's shadow is to develop a research record that does not involve your advisor at all.
– JeffE
9 hours ago
@JeffE, you are welcome to downvote, of course, but I have counterexamples to your statements. Long term collaborations, though not at the same university. Giving up a mentor seems counterproductive to and advancing career. BTW, thanks for giving the reason for the vote, too few people here are courteous enough to do that. Cheers.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
@JeffE, you are welcome to downvote, of course, but I have counterexamples to your statements. Long term collaborations, though not at the same university. Giving up a mentor seems counterproductive to and advancing career. BTW, thanks for giving the reason for the vote, too few people here are courteous enough to do that. Cheers.
– Buffy
9 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I believe the infallible way towards academic recognition is being clearly responsible for major breakthroughs in your field. Probably you have put yourself where you are, by consistently directing the spotlights to your senior author(s). Making someone else honorary first/corresponding author, as well as letting them present your work sure "gives face" to peers and shows reverence. If you got where you are because of such acts of "loyalty" then stopping it will quickly generate conflicts.
But unfortunately there's no other way around this: publish independent research (meaning the best you can produce), stand where you belong, present your work directly. No more special thanks at the end to honorary seniors. Discuss that openly with your ex-advisor, who may feel betrayed.
And by all means, do not expect nor induce some student to give you the face you've given your advisor as in the shape of some karmic payback. This is not a cycle.
answered 18 hours ago
Scientist
6,11112254
3
Hmmm. Major breakthroughs are pretty rare in nearly every field. You can be a success with much less.
– Buffy
17 hours ago
@Buffy Only time will testify whether anything was major or not, but we can always aim for significant questions in the short term. In my field I feel like major steps are actually quite trivial, but perhaps I am biased.
– Scientist
13 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I believe the infallible way towards academic recognition is being clearly responsible for major breakthroughs in your field. Probably you have put yourself where you are, by consistently directing the spotlights to your senior author(s). Making someone else honorary first/corresponding author, as well as letting them present your work sure "gives face" to peers and shows reverence. If you got where you are because of such acts of "loyalty" then stopping it will quickly generate conflicts.
But unfortunately there's no other way around this: publish independent research (meaning the best you can produce), stand where you belong, present your work directly. No more special thanks at the end to honorary seniors. Discuss that openly with your ex-advisor, who may feel betrayed.
And by all means, do not expect nor induce some student to give you the face you've given your advisor as in the shape of some karmic payback. This is not a cycle.
answered 18 hours ago
Scientist
6,11112254
3
Hmmm. Major breakthroughs are pretty rare in nearly every field. You can be a success with much less.
– Buffy
17 hours ago
@Buffy Only time will testify whether anything was major or not, but we can always aim for significant questions in the short term. In my field I feel like major steps are actually quite trivial, but perhaps I am biased.
– Scientist
13 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I believe the infallible way towards academic recognition is being clearly responsible for major breakthroughs in your field. Probably you have put yourself where you are, by consistently directing the spotlights to your senior author(s). Making someone else honorary first/corresponding author, as well as letting them present your work sure "gives face" to peers and shows reverence. If you got where you are because of such acts of "loyalty" then stopping it will quickly generate conflicts.
But unfortunately there's no other way around this: publish independent research (meaning the best you can produce), stand where you belong, present your work directly. No more special thanks at the end to honorary seniors. Discuss that openly with your ex-advisor, who may feel betrayed.
And by all means, do not expect nor induce some student to give you the face you've given your advisor as in the shape of some karmic payback. This is not a cycle.
answered 18 hours ago
Scientist
6,11112254
I believe the infallible way towards academic recognition is being clearly responsible for major breakthroughs in your field. Probably you have put yourself where you are, by consistently directing the spotlights to your senior author(s). Making someone else honorary first/corresponding author, as well as letting them present your work sure "gives face" to peers and shows reverence. If you got where you are because of such acts of "loyalty" then stopping it will quickly generate conflicts.
But unfortunately there's no other way around this: publish independent research (meaning the best you can produce), stand where you belong, present your work directly. No more special thanks at the end to honorary seniors. Discuss that openly with your ex-advisor, who may feel betrayed.
And by all means, do not expect nor induce some student to give you the face you've given your advisor as in the shape of some karmic payback. This is not a cycle.
answered 18 hours ago
Scientist
6,11112254
answered 18 hours ago
Scientist
6,11112254
answered 18 hours ago
Scientist
6,11112254
answered 18 hours ago
Scientist
6,11112254
6,11112254
3
Hmmm. Major breakthroughs are pretty rare in nearly every field. You can be a success with much less.
– Buffy
17 hours ago
@Buffy Only time will testify whether anything was major or not, but we can always aim for significant questions in the short term. In my field I feel like major steps are actually quite trivial, but perhaps I am biased.
– Scientist
13 hours ago
add a comment |Â
3
Hmmm. Major breakthroughs are pretty rare in nearly every field. You can be a success with much less.
– Buffy
17 hours ago
@Buffy Only time will testify whether anything was major or not, but we can always aim for significant questions in the short term. In my field I feel like major steps are actually quite trivial, but perhaps I am biased.
– Scientist
13 hours ago
3
3
Hmmm. Major breakthroughs are pretty rare in nearly every field. You can be a success with much less.
– Buffy
17 hours ago
Hmmm. Major breakthroughs are pretty rare in nearly every field. You can be a success with much less.
– Buffy
17 hours ago
@Buffy Only time will testify whether anything was major or not, but we can always aim for significant questions in the short term. In my field I feel like major steps are actually quite trivial, but perhaps I am biased.
– Scientist
13 hours ago
@Buffy Only time will testify whether anything was major or not, but we can always aim for significant questions in the short term. In my field I feel like major steps are actually quite trivial, but perhaps I am biased.
– Scientist
13 hours ago
add a comment |Â
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The general question may be: how to act when you have tried hard (and in part having been successful) to be (researchally speaking) independent of your PhD advisor, but on the eyes of almost everybody you are still her student? If this situation is rephrased saying that we are in the same institution then it explains a little what I was explaining...
– Gaussian-Matter
22 hours ago
3
Important information is missing: who is the corresponding author on your shared papers?
– Doru Constantin
20 hours ago
Forgot to say that: we are pure mathematicians, which means that we sign the papers in alphabetical order. So no distinction between authors
– Gaussian-Matter
20 hours ago
1
The corresponding author does not have to be the same as the first name alphabetically. What @DoruConstantin is asking is who your papers state is the person to direct correspondance to.
– Phil
19 hours ago
2
I think there is a useful question in here, but the title needs to be changed and most of the specific details in the body should be removed. It may be easier to close this and ask a new question that is clear and short. @Gaussian-Matter if you are okay with me drastically revising your question then I could try to trim and clarify it.
– David Ketcheson
19 hours ago