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Why is there both a flat and a natural sign in parentheses before this note?
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up vote
3
down vote
favorite
On Andre Gedalge's Traite de la Fugue book, there is this example, where before the F note, there is both a natural and a sharp sign.
Which one do I choose? And why did the author include both of them?
(there is no key signature)
theory accidentals
asked 1 hour ago
Shevliaskovic
19.8k1372157
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
On Andre Gedalge's Traite de la Fugue book, there is this example, where before the F note, there is both a natural and a sharp sign.
Which one do I choose? And why did the author include both of them?
(there is no key signature)
theory accidentals
asked 1 hour ago
Shevliaskovic
19.8k1372157
This is the Greek translation, so is it possible it's a mistake?
– Shevliaskovic
1 hour ago
What is represented by the separate systems? Different solutions for the same task? Obviously the parentheses can't be courtesy accidentals, and the only alternative I can imagine is choose either one, or alternate between all of them. If this is somehow related to a minor scale, it might be the difference between standard and harmonic minor, but example 3 looks quite chromatic.
– guidot
1 hour ago
What is the context of this example?
– Richard
47 mins ago
@Richard there really isn't any context. These are just examples of Subjects with their answers (the answers are on the right, not shown on the pic)
– Shevliaskovic
42 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
On Andre Gedalge's Traite de la Fugue book, there is this example, where before the F note, there is both a natural and a sharp sign.
Which one do I choose? And why did the author include both of them?
(there is no key signature)
theory accidentals
asked 1 hour ago
Shevliaskovic
19.8k1372157
On Andre Gedalge's Traite de la Fugue book, there is this example, where before the F note, there is both a natural and a sharp sign.
Which one do I choose? And why did the author include both of them?
(there is no key signature)
theory accidentals
theory accidentals
asked 1 hour ago
Shevliaskovic
19.8k1372157
asked 1 hour ago
Shevliaskovic
19.8k1372157
asked 1 hour ago
Shevliaskovic
19.8k1372157
asked 1 hour ago
Shevliaskovic
19.8k1372157
asked 1 hour ago
Shevliaskovic
19.8k1372157
19.8k1372157
This is the Greek translation, so is it possible it's a mistake?
– Shevliaskovic
1 hour ago
What is represented by the separate systems? Different solutions for the same task? Obviously the parentheses can't be courtesy accidentals, and the only alternative I can imagine is choose either one, or alternate between all of them. If this is somehow related to a minor scale, it might be the difference between standard and harmonic minor, but example 3 looks quite chromatic.
– guidot
1 hour ago
What is the context of this example?
– Richard
47 mins ago
@Richard there really isn't any context. These are just examples of Subjects with their answers (the answers are on the right, not shown on the pic)
– Shevliaskovic
42 mins ago
add a comment |Â
This is the Greek translation, so is it possible it's a mistake?
– Shevliaskovic
1 hour ago
What is represented by the separate systems? Different solutions for the same task? Obviously the parentheses can't be courtesy accidentals, and the only alternative I can imagine is choose either one, or alternate between all of them. If this is somehow related to a minor scale, it might be the difference between standard and harmonic minor, but example 3 looks quite chromatic.
– guidot
1 hour ago
What is the context of this example?
– Richard
47 mins ago
@Richard there really isn't any context. These are just examples of Subjects with their answers (the answers are on the right, not shown on the pic)
– Shevliaskovic
42 mins ago
This is the Greek translation, so is it possible it's a mistake?
– Shevliaskovic
1 hour ago
This is the Greek translation, so is it possible it's a mistake?
– Shevliaskovic
1 hour ago
What is represented by the separate systems? Different solutions for the same task? Obviously the parentheses can't be courtesy accidentals, and the only alternative I can imagine is choose either one, or alternate between all of them. If this is somehow related to a minor scale, it might be the difference between standard and harmonic minor, but example 3 looks quite chromatic.
– guidot
1 hour ago
What is represented by the separate systems? Different solutions for the same task? Obviously the parentheses can't be courtesy accidentals, and the only alternative I can imagine is choose either one, or alternate between all of them. If this is somehow related to a minor scale, it might be the difference between standard and harmonic minor, but example 3 looks quite chromatic.
– guidot
1 hour ago
What is the context of this example?
– Richard
47 mins ago
What is the context of this example?
– Richard
47 mins ago
@Richard there really isn't any context. These are just examples of Subjects with their answers (the answers are on the right, not shown on the pic)
– Shevliaskovic
42 mins ago
@Richard there really isn't any context. These are just examples of Subjects with their answers (the answers are on the right, not shown on the pic)
– Shevliaskovic
42 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
This is usually done when a double sharp gets lowered back to a sharp.
Like for instance, when you are in a# melodic minor and the Leading Tone note gets raised from the G# in the key signature up to a Gx, now when the descending natural minor form is used now this Gx needs to go back to a G#, so one of the forms of notation for this would be a natural sign followed by a sharp sign.
You also get the notation where just a single sharp is used, but this is ever so slightly ambiguous. I do prefer the notation with the natural sign.
answered 48 mins ago
Neil Meyer
8,47622548
1
But there are no previous bars, so as to imply something like that and there isn't a key signature either
– Shevliaskovic
40 mins ago
It could be an excerpt of a piece where this happened and the formatting was kept.
– Neil Meyer
37 mins ago
1
This certainly is the normal use of such a sign, although it appears there wasn't an Fx to cancel. +1.
– Tim
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Since these are sample fugue subjects, here is my take:
Since these are all examples of motion from scale-degree 5 up to scale-degree 1 in the key of C, they seem to be showing that, in choosing a lower neighbor to G, you can have either F or F♯. Since using F♯ in no way alters the local tonality, you are welcome to use either option.
In some other fugal circumstances—like if these were countersubjects or some other extra contrapuntal material—you may want to shy away from using F♯ if you want to make it extra clear you're in tonic and not moving to the dominant.
answered 43 mins ago
Richard
32.5k671137
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
This is usually done when a double sharp gets lowered back to a sharp.
Like for instance, when you are in a# melodic minor and the Leading Tone note gets raised from the G# in the key signature up to a Gx, now when the descending natural minor form is used now this Gx needs to go back to a G#, so one of the forms of notation for this would be a natural sign followed by a sharp sign.
You also get the notation where just a single sharp is used, but this is ever so slightly ambiguous. I do prefer the notation with the natural sign.
answered 48 mins ago
Neil Meyer
8,47622548
1
But there are no previous bars, so as to imply something like that and there isn't a key signature either
– Shevliaskovic
40 mins ago
It could be an excerpt of a piece where this happened and the formatting was kept.
– Neil Meyer
37 mins ago
1
This certainly is the normal use of such a sign, although it appears there wasn't an Fx to cancel. +1.
– Tim
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
This is usually done when a double sharp gets lowered back to a sharp.
Like for instance, when you are in a# melodic minor and the Leading Tone note gets raised from the G# in the key signature up to a Gx, now when the descending natural minor form is used now this Gx needs to go back to a G#, so one of the forms of notation for this would be a natural sign followed by a sharp sign.
You also get the notation where just a single sharp is used, but this is ever so slightly ambiguous. I do prefer the notation with the natural sign.
answered 48 mins ago
Neil Meyer
8,47622548
1
But there are no previous bars, so as to imply something like that and there isn't a key signature either
– Shevliaskovic
40 mins ago
It could be an excerpt of a piece where this happened and the formatting was kept.
– Neil Meyer
37 mins ago
1
This certainly is the normal use of such a sign, although it appears there wasn't an Fx to cancel. +1.
– Tim
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
This is usually done when a double sharp gets lowered back to a sharp.
Like for instance, when you are in a# melodic minor and the Leading Tone note gets raised from the G# in the key signature up to a Gx, now when the descending natural minor form is used now this Gx needs to go back to a G#, so one of the forms of notation for this would be a natural sign followed by a sharp sign.
You also get the notation where just a single sharp is used, but this is ever so slightly ambiguous. I do prefer the notation with the natural sign.
answered 48 mins ago
Neil Meyer
8,47622548
This is usually done when a double sharp gets lowered back to a sharp.
Like for instance, when you are in a# melodic minor and the Leading Tone note gets raised from the G# in the key signature up to a Gx, now when the descending natural minor form is used now this Gx needs to go back to a G#, so one of the forms of notation for this would be a natural sign followed by a sharp sign.
You also get the notation where just a single sharp is used, but this is ever so slightly ambiguous. I do prefer the notation with the natural sign.
answered 48 mins ago
Neil Meyer
8,47622548
answered 48 mins ago
Neil Meyer
8,47622548
answered 48 mins ago
Neil Meyer
8,47622548
answered 48 mins ago
Neil Meyer
8,47622548
8,47622548
1
But there are no previous bars, so as to imply something like that and there isn't a key signature either
– Shevliaskovic
40 mins ago
It could be an excerpt of a piece where this happened and the formatting was kept.
– Neil Meyer
37 mins ago
1
This certainly is the normal use of such a sign, although it appears there wasn't an Fx to cancel. +1.
– Tim
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1
But there are no previous bars, so as to imply something like that and there isn't a key signature either
– Shevliaskovic
40 mins ago
It could be an excerpt of a piece where this happened and the formatting was kept.
– Neil Meyer
37 mins ago
1
This certainly is the normal use of such a sign, although it appears there wasn't an Fx to cancel. +1.
– Tim
8 mins ago
1
1
But there are no previous bars, so as to imply something like that and there isn't a key signature either
– Shevliaskovic
40 mins ago
But there are no previous bars, so as to imply something like that and there isn't a key signature either
– Shevliaskovic
40 mins ago
It could be an excerpt of a piece where this happened and the formatting was kept.
– Neil Meyer
37 mins ago
It could be an excerpt of a piece where this happened and the formatting was kept.
– Neil Meyer
37 mins ago
1
1
This certainly is the normal use of such a sign, although it appears there wasn't an Fx to cancel. +1.
– Tim
8 mins ago
This certainly is the normal use of such a sign, although it appears there wasn't an Fx to cancel. +1.
– Tim
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Since these are sample fugue subjects, here is my take:
Since these are all examples of motion from scale-degree 5 up to scale-degree 1 in the key of C, they seem to be showing that, in choosing a lower neighbor to G, you can have either F or F♯. Since using F♯ in no way alters the local tonality, you are welcome to use either option.
In some other fugal circumstances—like if these were countersubjects or some other extra contrapuntal material—you may want to shy away from using F♯ if you want to make it extra clear you're in tonic and not moving to the dominant.
answered 43 mins ago
Richard
32.5k671137
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Since these are sample fugue subjects, here is my take:
Since these are all examples of motion from scale-degree 5 up to scale-degree 1 in the key of C, they seem to be showing that, in choosing a lower neighbor to G, you can have either F or F♯. Since using F♯ in no way alters the local tonality, you are welcome to use either option.
In some other fugal circumstances—like if these were countersubjects or some other extra contrapuntal material—you may want to shy away from using F♯ if you want to make it extra clear you're in tonic and not moving to the dominant.
answered 43 mins ago
Richard
32.5k671137
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Since these are sample fugue subjects, here is my take:
Since these are all examples of motion from scale-degree 5 up to scale-degree 1 in the key of C, they seem to be showing that, in choosing a lower neighbor to G, you can have either F or F♯. Since using F♯ in no way alters the local tonality, you are welcome to use either option.
In some other fugal circumstances—like if these were countersubjects or some other extra contrapuntal material—you may want to shy away from using F♯ if you want to make it extra clear you're in tonic and not moving to the dominant.
answered 43 mins ago
Richard
32.5k671137
Since these are sample fugue subjects, here is my take:
Since these are all examples of motion from scale-degree 5 up to scale-degree 1 in the key of C, they seem to be showing that, in choosing a lower neighbor to G, you can have either F or F♯. Since using F♯ in no way alters the local tonality, you are welcome to use either option.
In some other fugal circumstances—like if these were countersubjects or some other extra contrapuntal material—you may want to shy away from using F♯ if you want to make it extra clear you're in tonic and not moving to the dominant.
answered 43 mins ago
Richard
32.5k671137
answered 43 mins ago
Richard
32.5k671137
answered 43 mins ago
Richard
32.5k671137
answered 43 mins ago
Richard
32.5k671137
32.5k671137
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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This is the Greek translation, so is it possible it's a mistake?
– Shevliaskovic
1 hour ago
What is represented by the separate systems? Different solutions for the same task? Obviously the parentheses can't be courtesy accidentals, and the only alternative I can imagine is choose either one, or alternate between all of them. If this is somehow related to a minor scale, it might be the difference between standard and harmonic minor, but example 3 looks quite chromatic.
– guidot
1 hour ago
What is the context of this example?
– Richard
47 mins ago
@Richard there really isn't any context. These are just examples of Subjects with their answers (the answers are on the right, not shown on the pic)
– Shevliaskovic
42 mins ago