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Why do we need bit scrambling when using 8b/10b?
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I want to ask the opposite of this question.
Here are the purpose of the bit scramblers:
- Encrypt, but LFSR (and other used) bit-scramblers are breakable.
- Clock recovery, but it is done by the 8b/
- DC offset, but it is done by the 8b/10b.
- (Are there any?)
Why do we need bit scrambling when using 8b/10b?
serial communication encoder
asked 2 hours ago
betontalpfa
1085
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I want to ask the opposite of this question.
Here are the purpose of the bit scramblers:
- Encrypt, but LFSR (and other used) bit-scramblers are breakable.
- Clock recovery, but it is done by the 8b/
- DC offset, but it is done by the 8b/10b.
- (Are there any?)
Why do we need bit scrambling when using 8b/10b?
serial communication encoder
asked 2 hours ago
betontalpfa
1085
Scrambling improves resistance to loss of several bits in a row, due to a single noise event?
– tomnexus
1 hour ago
@tomnexus I don't believe so. For example, CRCs can detect longer burst sequences than distributed errors. It would help for distributing burst errors between separate data blocks (such as used in CD-ROMs) but in such situation there is no advantage to scrambling - you can just use a fixed interleaving pattern. Might be some form of error detection/recovery I am overlooking though.
– Jon
51 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I want to ask the opposite of this question.
Here are the purpose of the bit scramblers:
- Encrypt, but LFSR (and other used) bit-scramblers are breakable.
- Clock recovery, but it is done by the 8b/
- DC offset, but it is done by the 8b/10b.
- (Are there any?)
Why do we need bit scrambling when using 8b/10b?
serial communication encoder
asked 2 hours ago
betontalpfa
1085
I want to ask the opposite of this question.
Here are the purpose of the bit scramblers:
- Encrypt, but LFSR (and other used) bit-scramblers are breakable.
- Clock recovery, but it is done by the 8b/
- DC offset, but it is done by the 8b/10b.
- (Are there any?)
Why do we need bit scrambling when using 8b/10b?
serial communication encoder
serial communication encoder
asked 2 hours ago
betontalpfa
1085
asked 2 hours ago
betontalpfa
1085
asked 2 hours ago
betontalpfa
1085
asked 2 hours ago
betontalpfa
1085
asked 2 hours ago
betontalpfa
1085
1085
Scrambling improves resistance to loss of several bits in a row, due to a single noise event?
– tomnexus
1 hour ago
@tomnexus I don't believe so. For example, CRCs can detect longer burst sequences than distributed errors. It would help for distributing burst errors between separate data blocks (such as used in CD-ROMs) but in such situation there is no advantage to scrambling - you can just use a fixed interleaving pattern. Might be some form of error detection/recovery I am overlooking though.
– Jon
51 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Scrambling improves resistance to loss of several bits in a row, due to a single noise event?
– tomnexus
1 hour ago
@tomnexus I don't believe so. For example, CRCs can detect longer burst sequences than distributed errors. It would help for distributing burst errors between separate data blocks (such as used in CD-ROMs) but in such situation there is no advantage to scrambling - you can just use a fixed interleaving pattern. Might be some form of error detection/recovery I am overlooking though.
– Jon
51 mins ago
Scrambling improves resistance to loss of several bits in a row, due to a single noise event?
– tomnexus
1 hour ago
Scrambling improves resistance to loss of several bits in a row, due to a single noise event?
– tomnexus
1 hour ago
@tomnexus I don't believe so. For example, CRCs can detect longer burst sequences than distributed errors. It would help for distributing burst errors between separate data blocks (such as used in CD-ROMs) but in such situation there is no advantage to scrambling - you can just use a fixed interleaving pattern. Might be some form of error detection/recovery I am overlooking though.
– Jon
51 mins ago
@tomnexus I don't believe so. For example, CRCs can detect longer burst sequences than distributed errors. It would help for distributing burst errors between separate data blocks (such as used in CD-ROMs) but in such situation there is no advantage to scrambling - you can just use a fixed interleaving pattern. Might be some form of error detection/recovery I am overlooking though.
– Jon
51 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
To refer to the original question, in SATA it is used to reduce the EMI emitted by the bus. If you look at the way 8b/10b encoding works, you'll see that it is entirely possible to have the same 10b word encoded throughout the message for certain 8b input values.
For example, the input 00100011 always encodes to 1001110001. So a message that consists entirely of 0x23 bytes will create a repeating sequence of:
1001110001100111000110011100011001110001...
This periodic sequence concentrates the signal energy into a small number of harmonics. Given the way EMC tests are conducted (looking at emissions within narrow bands) you are basically making life harder for yourself by allowing the overall energy to concentrate like this. By scrambling the data you statistically eliminate these sorts of periodic occurrences, and ensure that the signal energy is always spread out evenly across the available channel bandwidth.
answered 1 hour ago
Jon
2,985613
There are byte sequences, which results the same effect also using bit-scrambling. (Descramble a byte sequence of same bytes.) But it is probably true, that we send same bytes more often than sending this special byte sequences.
– betontalpfa
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
To refer to the original question, in SATA it is used to reduce the EMI emitted by the bus. If you look at the way 8b/10b encoding works, you'll see that it is entirely possible to have the same 10b word encoded throughout the message for certain 8b input values.
For example, the input 00100011 always encodes to 1001110001. So a message that consists entirely of 0x23 bytes will create a repeating sequence of:
1001110001100111000110011100011001110001...
This periodic sequence concentrates the signal energy into a small number of harmonics. Given the way EMC tests are conducted (looking at emissions within narrow bands) you are basically making life harder for yourself by allowing the overall energy to concentrate like this. By scrambling the data you statistically eliminate these sorts of periodic occurrences, and ensure that the signal energy is always spread out evenly across the available channel bandwidth.
answered 1 hour ago
Jon
2,985613
There are byte sequences, which results the same effect also using bit-scrambling. (Descramble a byte sequence of same bytes.) But it is probably true, that we send same bytes more often than sending this special byte sequences.
– betontalpfa
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
To refer to the original question, in SATA it is used to reduce the EMI emitted by the bus. If you look at the way 8b/10b encoding works, you'll see that it is entirely possible to have the same 10b word encoded throughout the message for certain 8b input values.
For example, the input 00100011 always encodes to 1001110001. So a message that consists entirely of 0x23 bytes will create a repeating sequence of:
1001110001100111000110011100011001110001...
This periodic sequence concentrates the signal energy into a small number of harmonics. Given the way EMC tests are conducted (looking at emissions within narrow bands) you are basically making life harder for yourself by allowing the overall energy to concentrate like this. By scrambling the data you statistically eliminate these sorts of periodic occurrences, and ensure that the signal energy is always spread out evenly across the available channel bandwidth.
answered 1 hour ago
Jon
2,985613
There are byte sequences, which results the same effect also using bit-scrambling. (Descramble a byte sequence of same bytes.) But it is probably true, that we send same bytes more often than sending this special byte sequences.
– betontalpfa
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
To refer to the original question, in SATA it is used to reduce the EMI emitted by the bus. If you look at the way 8b/10b encoding works, you'll see that it is entirely possible to have the same 10b word encoded throughout the message for certain 8b input values.
For example, the input 00100011 always encodes to 1001110001. So a message that consists entirely of 0x23 bytes will create a repeating sequence of:
1001110001100111000110011100011001110001...
This periodic sequence concentrates the signal energy into a small number of harmonics. Given the way EMC tests are conducted (looking at emissions within narrow bands) you are basically making life harder for yourself by allowing the overall energy to concentrate like this. By scrambling the data you statistically eliminate these sorts of periodic occurrences, and ensure that the signal energy is always spread out evenly across the available channel bandwidth.
answered 1 hour ago
Jon
2,985613
To refer to the original question, in SATA it is used to reduce the EMI emitted by the bus. If you look at the way 8b/10b encoding works, you'll see that it is entirely possible to have the same 10b word encoded throughout the message for certain 8b input values.
For example, the input 00100011 always encodes to 1001110001. So a message that consists entirely of 0x23 bytes will create a repeating sequence of:
1001110001100111000110011100011001110001...
This periodic sequence concentrates the signal energy into a small number of harmonics. Given the way EMC tests are conducted (looking at emissions within narrow bands) you are basically making life harder for yourself by allowing the overall energy to concentrate like this. By scrambling the data you statistically eliminate these sorts of periodic occurrences, and ensure that the signal energy is always spread out evenly across the available channel bandwidth.
answered 1 hour ago
Jon
2,985613
answered 1 hour ago
Jon
2,985613
answered 1 hour ago
Jon
2,985613
answered 1 hour ago
Jon
2,985613
2,985613
There are byte sequences, which results the same effect also using bit-scrambling. (Descramble a byte sequence of same bytes.) But it is probably true, that we send same bytes more often than sending this special byte sequences.
– betontalpfa
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
There are byte sequences, which results the same effect also using bit-scrambling. (Descramble a byte sequence of same bytes.) But it is probably true, that we send same bytes more often than sending this special byte sequences.
– betontalpfa
19 mins ago
There are byte sequences, which results the same effect also using bit-scrambling. (Descramble a byte sequence of same bytes.) But it is probably true, that we send same bytes more often than sending this special byte sequences.
– betontalpfa
19 mins ago
There are byte sequences, which results the same effect also using bit-scrambling. (Descramble a byte sequence of same bytes.) But it is probably true, that we send same bytes more often than sending this special byte sequences.
– betontalpfa
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
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Scrambling improves resistance to loss of several bits in a row, due to a single noise event?
– tomnexus
1 hour ago
@tomnexus I don't believe so. For example, CRCs can detect longer burst sequences than distributed errors. It would help for distributing burst errors between separate data blocks (such as used in CD-ROMs) but in such situation there is no advantage to scrambling - you can just use a fixed interleaving pattern. Might be some form of error detection/recovery I am overlooking though.
– Jon
51 mins ago